[x5.RunaMoK]

overall i think the event went well and i was very happy to be apart of it


my only feedback and ive been gunning for this luxury is BOOOOOTHS D:

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	+1 for BOOOOOOOTHS!!!
	syfPhoenix:	BOOOOOOOOFS

[rezyn8]

In terms of the open bracket seeding, this is an ACL event. Previous ACL events were advertised that participation would earn points for seeding into groups and open bracket of ACL Finals events. There is no mystery here.

ACL is a tournament in its own right. It is not part of the OSC or any other tournament. If you want to give yourself the best possible seed you have to participate in that tournaments events. As such, correct me if I am wrong, there were six online qualifiers and a LAN that all earned points for the yearly Finals.

As is, OSC doesn't take into consideration ACL standings. It would be like the AFL looking at the VFL/SANFL/WAFL/etc league standings of the feeder clubs to seed the premier clubs in the finals.

While it was unfortunate to see the handsome Blysk get knocked out in the OB, he knew what he was in for when he entered. As did iaguz and the other 'top' players. Tournaments are supposed to have upsets, it would be pretty damn boring if the same 'expected' people played the Ro8 over and over again at every tournament.

I'll compose my feedback as an attendee of the event a little later.

[Chiddiru]

Wait can i ask a question then?

How were each of the brackets decided for OB?

As a few people have said A-B in terms of skill level was crazy skewed, surely you could have split up like MK and blysk iaguz etc?

Also some of the more notable players were seeded in OB, not sure why you'd seed in an OPEN bracket tbh

I enjoyed the tournament overall, had a good experience, you could see the exhaustion in baldies face especially day 2, poor guy, great job overall to the ACL Crew

Quick Comments

Pox:

Odd seeds in one bracket, even seeds in the other. The stacking was a nasty coincidence.

[SLCN.Wally]

Originally Posted by Chiddiru

As a few people have said A-B in terms of skill level was crazy skewed, surely you could have split up like MK and blysk iaguz etc?

Also some of the more notable players were seeded in OB, not sure why you'd seed in an OPEN bracket tbh

these 2 things contradict eachother.

I don't think admin intervention is the answer to fixing this, tbh it's not even a problem this was just the absolutely worst scenerio the odds of this happening again would be extremely low I'd think.

[x5_Bard]

I don't think there is a problem with the current system in place. This is the first time in 3+ years the system has been brought up due to circumstances that probably will not present themselves again. The same problem could present in groups, where by some means it ends up being stupidly stacked.

I do not want a system where Baldie has to manually pick groups. This is an ACL event, the current method is both logical and fair. Good players miss out in tournaments all the time. If you don't want to get knocked out in open bracket, play the online quals and make groups. I made damn sure that Revz knew he had to qualify for groups, because I know how rough open bracket can be.

Now that I have had a chance to think back, this tournament was a huge success for both ACL and our SC2 scene. There were new faces, new stories and new rivalries. I only wish I wasn't so utterly sleep deprived and useless so that I could have actually enjoyed myself and said hi to more people.

[TtSYF.tRoy]

Originally Posted by Chiddiru

Wait can i ask a question then?

How were each of the brackets decided for OB?

As a few people have said A-B in terms of skill level was crazy skewed, surely you could have split up like MK and blysk iaguz etc?

Also some of the more notable players were seeded in OB, not sure why you'd seed in an OPEN bracket tbh

I enjoyed the tournament overall, had a good experience, you could see the exhaustion in baldies face especially day 2, poor guy, great job overall to the ACL Crew

Wait can i ask a question then?

How does one separate players without seeding?

+1 for Chadmanns idea of running a more dream hack like format with group stages and smaller groups, could even set up one or two community streams to cover some more of the open bracket (Need volunteers)

[syfChadMann]

I have a suggestion for the rando seeding issue... Perhaps only seed the top (8 or 16) players entered into the Open Bracket, the rest > random...

This does away with Mr gold league that got a few walk overs to earn himself 10 ACL Points getting a higher seed than Blysk that didn't think he was going to any ACL events this year so he didn't earn any points. Just seed those that really earned a decent amount of points and rando everyone else..

Of course you still have RNG gods that can still skew the brackets.. but it might help..?

[ETL.abbadonz]

Originally Posted by Chiddiru

Wait can i ask a question then?

How were each of the brackets decided for OB?

heres how we did our magic (or lack there of according to some)
Spreadsheet 1 - All ACL registered players and their ACL points in order of highest to lowest, earned from relevant ACL events
Spreadsheet 2 - All players registered and paid to attend ACL Sydney

Take players from Spreadsheet 2- arrange them according to points Highest to lowest as shows on sheet 1, obviously Zero ACL points got stacked @ the bottom and randomized

Player 1 - goes to backet A
Player 2 - Goes to bracker B
Player 3 - Bracket A
And so on

Admins don't pick and choose who goes where, the only thing we choose on the day is who goes on stage

[inFeZa]

**** the seeds, practice starcraft get good and beat your ******* opponent no matter who it is. don't cry because he's hard and its early on. too bad.

speaking of tournament structure, after groups should have been bo5 single elim bracket.

[x5.RunaMoK]

I agree here with infeza, i lucked out in ACL sydney compared to others but i went in with not a care in the world who i was going to play. end of the day winners make it, everyone else falls short and thats competition.

[Pox]

After reconsidering the exact seeding process I don't think there's a major issue - it's very unlikely that this will happen again. I stand by personally preferring Elo-like ratings over participation points but it's fair that ACL events are seeded by ACL points.

Originally Posted by inFeZa

**** the seeds, practice starcraft get good and beat your ******* opponent no matter who it is. don't cry because he's hard and its early on. too bad.

I really don't understand this attitude... if it's that easy why not just practice and get good and win GSL. When the prize pool runs as deep as it did at Sydney I think it's quite reasonable to expect to be able to make it deep despite not being the overall favourite.

Originally Posted by inFeZa

speaking of tournament structure, after groups should have been bo5 single elim bracket.

This could definitely create a more exciting finals - double elim is usually kinda anticlimactic from a spectator's standpoint. The potential downside is that when there are two clear favourites (as in the two LAN events so far this year) they can end up hitting before the grand finals. Seeding the champ bracket based on group points should be able to mitigate this: I'm curious what the process for this was at Brisbane, since the top 2 scorers from groups ended up being on the same side.

[Baldie]

I decided to do double elim bo3 in the championship bracket for Sydney because of the magnitude and significance of the event both cash wise and for the remaining WCS seed. At a simple level I view double elim as more player focused and less spectator focused while single elim is the opposite. I prioritised players over spectators in this case. Had I done single elim we probably would have been talking about how Iaguz hit KingKong in Round of 8 and one was knocked out or something like that.

Originally Posted by ToRPox

I'm curious what the process for this was at Brisbane, since the top 2 scorers from groups ended up being on the same side.

The system is designed so that players from the same group (1st, 2nd and 3rd) don't hit each other until the semi finals - and the exact starting position of each person is changed each event so it can't be worked out during the event. So it isn't who does the best in groups get's 1st seed etc it's already decided before the event even starts.

[Pox]

Fair enough - it's possible to seed to some extent while retaining the property that players from the same group miss each other, but I didn't think about the metagaming issue (people would throw games in groups if they knew e.g. KingKong dropped some maps).