[nirvAnA]

This feedback thread is for the SEA SL.

Do not talk about the CODE S selection process, that will be handled in due course in another feedback thread when the season is over. Right now lets spend our efforts focusing on how to run things best from this point foward.

I want to the run the tournament the best i can and am open to well thought out feedback and suggestions.
E.g Benjis suggestion to run one tourney earlier for ANZ, i realised my mistake and changed the timing to make one tourney earlier instantly.

Please feedback constructively like below.

Two main issues:

SEA SL Qualifications C & D.

Problem: 15%-20% no-shows.

Suggested solution: Im planning on voiding all current signups for C&D and making a new thread. One for C, one for D. This sign up thread will open one day before the tournament starts. Will this be too confusing for people? Will they be aware of the change? Just leave it as it is with the noshows? Apply a check in system? How? I expect the no shows to be more because its 1 week instead of 2 days from registration to playing and more people are gonna forget about it.

Other issues: Top 16 Seeding, Bo3 format etc, discuss what can be improved and keep in mind the logistics required to implement the solutions.

For the top 16 seeding elaboration-

+ Show +

i had done the previous two seedings. For bracket A i seeded deth#1 pig#2 pinder#3 fah#4, etc For bracket B i seeded ggAzz#1, ngenmaster#2, jimdiddy#3, iaguz#4. For bracket A seedings were mostly accurate with fah/pig/pinder all being in the final 4 but bracket b was abit messier - (azz/master lost in first rounds, jim's sc2 was corrupt because of localizer and coudlnt come online) but iaguz ended up winning.

I know im not the best judgement of skill and i dont know everyone so I could open the seedings up to a neutral panel but i wounder who else would have seeded fah and iaguz so high? pple would have just laughed at me for seeding them at #4 and they both won the tournaments. Also the logistics worry me as we allow registration till 1 hour before start time so the neutral panel has to all be on at that time and all decided on the top 16 within 10-15 mins. And its mostly the top 16 seeding which is most important which i feel im capable of accurately determining since everything after that is a bo3.

Code S Group Stage

Potential Problem: How do we seed the groups accurately with the top 12 "Code S" players?

Suggested solution: Votes? / Random draw on stream? The only thing im certain of now is Code A winners should be the #4 seed in all the groups as they are coming from "Code A" into "Code S". Right now im leaning towards a random draw for the top 12 like how most competitions do it with some pontential "groups of death" being possible but thats inherent with the random draw process and everyone in the top 12 is a strong player. Is the bo1 format still ok?

Potential Problem: Timing considerations. If Code S group matches start at 7pm SGT its 10pm for Sydney midnight for NZ

Suggested solution: Make it 5pm SGT as the singporeans qualified are students who are not working. But how about thailand? What will be a suitable time? Worse case scenario is to cast from replays but i dont want it to come to that.

Any other feedback related to the running of the tournament from this point foward - be it casters, tournament date etc feel free to feedback but do it constructively

[zendex]

SEA SL Qualifications C & D

Do not void the current signups. This might upset players who will not be informed.

What SEASL (and other SC2SEA tournaments) needs is a check-in system. Require players to check-in one hour before the tournament to confirm their slot. If player fails to check-in, he gets removed from the bracket.

Please clarify on what you meant with "Top 16 Seeding".

Bo3 format to semis. Bo5 Finals.

Code S Group Stage

Randomly seed the invited Code S players. The Code A players are randomly scattered across the groups. The random draw MUST be streamed if you're really concerned about credibility.

As for the Round Robin format for each group, can we have MST style?

Match 1: Player A vs Player B
Match 2: Player C vs Player D
Match 3: Winner of 1 vs Winner of 2 -> winner of this match advances Ro8
Match 4: Loser of 1 vs Loser of 2
Match 5: Loser of 3 vs Winner of 4 -> winner of this match advances to Ro8

Through MST format, ties are impossible.

[Benji]

7pm Syd/4pm SG start for Bracket C

Punish timewasters (There is no reason at all that a Bo1 tourney should take 5 hours).

To cut down on no shows, simply remove people from brackets C and D that did not show to A and B. This will be more a future fix than anything as players next time will post if they can't make it, or eliminate their chance at the entire tournament.

Someone get GSL Crossfire uploaded, current version does not allow specs, and until this is fixed it should be removed from the map pool. If game 3 in a Bo3 cannot be watched by casters, it detracts from the stream which is what the tournament is really designed for, to entertain. IMO, just remove Crossfire alltogether and replace it with iCCup Testbug (Crossfire is so Protoss bias its unbelievable).

Seeds for code S should be sorted by a neutral panel ie: Casters and/or unclanned community members. Casters understand who is good and who is not as they watch more SEA games than anyone else, unclanned community members requires the person to be in the know with who is good and who is not which can be difficult. 4 or 5 people on the panel from various countries and social groups will eliminate any bias.

[NvPinder]

You could work on some sort of check-in system for the no shows maybe? im not sure of the logistics of that tho.

But yeah, agreeing with definitely dont void the alrdy taken signups, some people dont check the community signups very often and could be VERY pissed if they thought they were signed up and weren't.

as for seeding for the code S groups, it's pretty difficult and no matter what u do people are gonna get hit in the nuts with the 'group of death', but i think thats easily avoidable next season by just basing it on past season's results.

I definitely agree with bo3 rounds starting at Ro16 tho, there's more than 8 capable players in the brackets that i feel could beat anyone on the server in one off games 10% of the time.

Also - get crossfire working if it's gona be in the map pool :P

[nirvAnA]

i like the MST format, it looks cleaner, 5 matches are played regardless and there are no tie posibilities

[deL]

zendex not sure I understand the point of random seeds.

[HDPhoenix]

Regarding MST matches:
So what I understand instead of 2 Rof16 matches to see who gets in Ro8 (and the chance a good player gets knocked out), it will be 5 MST matches. I like it, it will add depth to the tournament and give those with pre-tournament jitters a chance to recover.

Logistically, we just need more time for streams but if we do it, I believe it will be far more entertaining. Lets do it

Regarding Code S picking:
I do not view this as a problem beyond the first season. Very neatly, the 8 that did not make it for Rof8, will fight Up-Down matches. The losing 4 will be put back in next season's Code A, and the current season of Code A top 4 will move up.

There, very neat way to cycle the players and plenty of opportunity for those knocked into Code A to prove themselves otherwise. They would have to lose 3 straight Code S matches to get knocked out.

TLR Dont worry about Code S seeding. It is the first season. Those that are really good will float to the top within 2-3 seasons. Lets think longer term.

Regarding this season's Code S seeding
Stream the tournament's Challonge page, hit "shuffle", done. First season will be pure luck, subsequent seasons can be based on results.

My 2(,000,000) cents

[deL]

Originally Posted by HDPhoenix

Regarding this season's Code S seeding
Stream the tournament's Challonge page, hit "shuffle", done. First season will be pure luck, subsequent seasons can be based on results.

But it's completely unnecessary to do this. Why rely on luck when you can seed the top players who deserve to be rewarded for their efforts and will provide competitive and entertaining games?

Underdogs worthy of upsets will still pull them, but seeding will give the best chance to make the tournament as entertaining as possible and wanting people to come back for more.

[inFeZa]

Hey nirvana, i have a question:
Is there going to be either more qualifiers later down the track? and some up/down matches like things? so people who missed out can have another chance to get into code S?

Also, how much is the code S players going to rotate, ie, if they're not performing well (if code S isn't just a tournament) and how will they be punished, or should they have a thing where they have to fight for their place.

I kinda dont make sense right now so ask me if u dont understand anything.

tldr : rotating underperforming players in code S? give more people a chance to get into code S

[zendex]

Originally Posted by deL

zendex not sure I understand the point of random seeds.

What I mean is the 12 invited Code S players gets seeded across the 4 groups of Ro16 according to their seed #.

Here's a sample:

Group A:
1. Jazbas - #1 seed
2. YYJ - #2 seed
3. Kowi - #3 seed
4. Fah - Code A Bracket A winner

Group B:
1. iceiceice - #1 seed
2. filthy - #2 seed
3. Jesse - #3 seed
4. iaguz - Code A Bracket B winner

Group C:
1. RedArchon - #1 seed
2. Revenant #2 seed
3. EdgE - #3 seed
4. Code A Bracket C winner

Group D:
1. OxygeN - #1 seed
2. AaroN - #2 seed
3. Roz - #3 seed
4. Code A Bracket D winner

[Starcraftmazter]

Can matches start not earlier than 7pm Sydney time? 6pm is a bit close for people working in the city (I'm not usually home by 6).

Also for no shows...many tournaments implement a check in system, allow unlimited sign ups, and people get picked in order of sign up according to who is checked in, or something like that.

Someone mentioned round robin, that'd be sweet.

[nirvAnA]

Alright so here are the changes that are going to be made so far.

1) Signups will stay as they are but a checkin system which Veteris is working on will be implemented. Check-ins will be open the day before the tournament starts. Players who do not check in would be treated as players who forgot about the tourney and their names wont be in the bracket. This is to prevent no shows. The bracket will be generated 30 mins before the start of the tournament so the check in time ends then.

2) Code S will follow the MST format so there are no tiebreaks.
Groups will be random drawn for the Top 12 code S players and this will be streamed live on the day of the code A finals next Friday.
Next season the top 8 players who qualified for the playoffs will be seeded as #1 and #2 in their groups.

3) The time for Bracket C next week has been moved back 1 hour. It starts at 4pm sgt or 7pm sydney to better suit the Anz region.

4) Code A this season will be streamed by a Established+Amatuer caster.

Streamers for next week: 7pm AU time slot: deL + unstable
7pm SGT time slot: kelly + sixth

Next seasons Code A will only be streamed by established casters.
If you want to cast the games you have to practise get more exposure by casting our small tournaments like BSGs/GPDs, etc.

5) crossfire has been removed from the map pool

Any more suggestions to improve the tourney are welcome.

[Douchebag]

Problem: 15%-20% no-shows - all people entered in the tournament are registered with the site. perhaps the best way, if its not too difficult, is to send out emails to all the players as reminders & updates. tell them to check their emails regularly. maybe u could get them to re-register their attendance through the email?

you know what would be awesome & would really work? if you ran the tournament in the same fashion as the world cup point system (soccer world cup) & then the player with the most points at the end wins. there would be more matches & timing could be worked out better. this system would mean everyone plays everyone 2-3 times or even 1 time. if u win u get 3 points lose -3points games over 20mins maybe reduced to +1/-1 point. i duno =D

or if u have BO3 if u win 2-0 u get 3points, if u win 2-1 u get 2 points

[nGenWild]

You could ban no-show ppl for nxt 3tournaments or something then they might realise how gay it is to sign up and just not show up in actual date.
And personally I don't really care about no-show, but don't ever get it replaced by someone else.
This is most stupid way how some tournaments went earlier.
No register = No play , obviously they don't care about the tournament
Just pisses me off how they ninja in.

And also about the seed in code A, I think in Bo1 series, they can lose so easily especially in mirror match so it doesn't really surprise me that master/azz got knocked out early in the bracket.
Not saying that whole thing should be Bo3, or it would take too long to finish.
Just saying that theres nothing wrong about giving seeds to known players.

And about Bracket C moving back 1hr.. that would be so stupid for ppl who are living in NZ. It's during weekdays.. I mean theres uni/school/work for ppl next day. I don't wanna sleep after 12am like in weekends..
Im pretty sure it effects most of NZer.
If anything changes about time, should b 1hr earlier -,-

This is my personaly thoughts about code S.. but I think Code S should have some more people in it. Looking at the current player list, it's most likely them playing themselves again in next season. We wouldn't get much chance to see new faces in Code S.
Tbh, u shud get like at least 2ppl to qualify from each bracket.
Im pretty sure it's not that hard to fill Code S with 32ppl.
I mean I thought bracket A was OK for me, worried me that just there were lot of Ts in my part of bracket and yeh.. lost to Terran haha. but personally I think TvT is 50 50 unless theres huge difference in skill level. So only person that worried me was Pinder. Heres my point. Inviting only 12ppl into code S by certain ppl's votes, player like Pinder gets to play in code A. I asked some ppl why they didn't vote pinder there, and what they said was "I never saw him play". I mean.. that's so stupid reason.. from what I've seen, pinder is one of best P that I knw. Voting was fine, but should extend bit more on invite list, and get some more qualifiers from code A would be nice. I reckon there are lots of good players out there now to compete with toptop players.
I know this would be hard to b done in this season but should really consider for next season.

Longest post i've ever made

[pjw]

Could you not refer to the divisions as Code A and Code S. As much fun as dressing up and pretending to be a korean is, for clarity's sake...Division 1, Division 2...Code A..Code B..

[nirvAnA]

the whole point from the sponsor was to have a SEA version of gsl!

and because pple are already used to it from following gsl, i think its clearer to use the code a/s names then say division a/b

[kellyMILKIES]

Originally Posted by pjw

Could you not refer to the divisions as Code A and Code S. As much fun as dressing up and pretending to be a korean is, for clarity's sake...Division 1, Division 2...Code A..Code B..

What's wrong with using Code A and Code S?
It's perfectly fine. It's like how sc2sea is like Team Liquid cause we love team liquid.
We love GSL so we want to run an SEA tournament like GSL.

I don't see anything wrong with that at all.


Anyway Bryan can we ffs not put first map as xelnaga for all the rounds??
I casted 183892 Xel Naga games last week.
And playing on Xel Naga all the time is not very good. Reason elaborated in MSN chat.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by kellyMILKIES

What's wrong with using Code A and Code S?
It's perfectly fine. It's like how sc2sea is like Team Liquid cause we love team liquid.
We love GSL so we want to run an SEA tournament like GSL.

I don't see anything wrong with that at all.


Anyway Bryan can we ffs not put first map as xelnaga for all the rounds??
I casted 183892 Xel Naga games last week.
And playing on Xel Naga all the time is not very good. Reason elaborated in MSN chat.

It depends on the aim. For castability Xel'Naga does get boring yes, but as far as balance goes, especially in Bo1, having the most fair map as the only map is the only choice you have. Even if you pick Meta as an alternate map, a Zerg can get close spawns with a Terran and could lose to a player they are better than due to map inbalance, then all of a sudden you have to ask 'Did the best player really win?'

[PiG]

Originally Posted by Benji

It depends on the aim. For castability Xel'Naga does get boring yes, but as far as balance goes, especially in Bo1, having the most fair map as the only map is the only choice you have. Even if you pick Meta as an alternate map, a Zerg can get close spawns with a Terran and could lose to a player they are better than due to map inbalance, then all of a sudden you have to ask 'Did the best player really win?'

maybe alternate with modified shattered and metalopalis. The TSL ones with no close spawns. Woulda add variety without compromising balance issues

[Benji]

Originally Posted by PiG

maybe alternate with modified shattered and metalopalis. The TSL ones with no close spawns. Woulda add variety without compromising balance issues

Don't think theyre on SEA yet