[ToRSpartaz]

I finally realise why is so feared...? No not feared but seriously hated xD Lol Ive had 10 games which I fourgated recently and 8/10 of them were an instant fourgate win Seriously I want to hear all you guys that have been fourgated

[Aean(:]

I stop 4gates 1 handed.

[ToRSpartaz]

Bahahahahah xD

[NvPinder]

10/10 thread, would read again...

[Satu]

Originally Posted by JPMoney

10/10 thread, would read again...

I would, but the thread was just too godly for me. Its like comparing bronze league rank 100 to rank 1 masters league.

[ToRSpartaz]

The title should be "xD" -.-stupid fail caps

[PapaBigBelly]

Things i hate about 4 gate

1. you can hide the gates anywhere on the map
2. if you keep continuing the 4 gate, the zerg player will eventually run out of larva and lose
3. pylons can be hidden everywhere! especially on the new maps with so much smoke vents, and WIDE naturals.
4. protoss is NOT behind after 4 gating
5. They can expand after 4 gating

conclusion: Protoss is IMBA not terran.
p.s. protoss can get a deathball on 2 base with voids and collosi which can kill a 5 base 300/200 zerg army. plus warp in time only takes a few seconds to warp in another wave of army. zergs have to spawn larva, and make units from hatcheries, not pylons which can be built anywhere!

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by ArousalPerMinute

Things i hate about 4 gate

1. you can hide the gates anywhere on the map
2. if you keep continuing the 4 gate, the zerg player will eventually run out of larva and lose
3. pylons can be hidden everywhere! especially on the new maps with so much smoke vents, and WIDE naturals.
4. protoss is NOT behind after 4 gating
5. They can expand after 4 gating

conclusion: Protoss is IMBA not terran.
p.s. protoss can get a deathball on 2 base with voids and collosi which can kill a 5 base 300/200 zerg army. plus warp in time only takes a few seconds to warp in another wave of army. zergs have to spawn larva, and make units from hatcheries, not pylons which can be built anywhere!

great post, really insightful stuff backed up by what is obviously a ton of knowledge of the game, do you by any chance have a youtube channel or livestream i can check out?

[Satu]

Originally Posted by ArousalPerMinute

Things i hate about 4 gate

1. you can hide the gates anywhere on the map
2. if you keep continuing the 4 gate, the zerg player will eventually run out of larva and lose
3. pylons can be hidden everywhere! especially on the new maps with so much smoke vents, and WIDE naturals.
4. protoss is NOT behind after 4 gating
5. They can expand after 4 gating

I'll address this from a ZvP point of view, and not follow Pinder's trolling.

1. It is the zerg's responsibility to scout regardless. If you are caught off guard by a 4gate, its because you deserve to be, due to bad scouting.

2. I disagree, as that would be completely situational, and the protoss would have to be winning the engagements. Its not always the same for what you have said.

3. Yes, similar to point 1. You just need to know where pylons are usually placed to be sneaky and check those spots if you suspect a 4gate.

4. I disagree again, its yet again situational. If they continue to do 4gate pressure after losing their whole army and just throw their units away, then they will begin to get more and more behind.

5. Yes, they can, unless they have thrown away their advantage with a very bad engagement prior to attempting to expand.

[BubbleT]

Originally Posted by ArousalPerMinute

Things i hate about 4 gate

1. you can hide the gates anywhere on the map
2. if you keep continuing the 4 gate, the zerg player will eventually run out of larva and lose
3. pylons can be hidden everywhere! especially on the new maps with so much smoke vents, and WIDE naturals.
4. protoss is NOT behind after 4 gating
5. They can expand after 4 gating

conclusion: Protoss is IMBA not terran.
p.s. protoss can get a deathball on 2 base with voids and collosi which can kill a 5 base 300/200 zerg army. plus warp in time only takes a few seconds to warp in another wave of army. zergs have to spawn larva, and make units from hatcheries, not pylons which can be built anywhere!

1. There's not much advantage to this. They can't hide the core and you can expect a 4 gate based just on workers, early units and chrono use.
2. You really can't 4 gate forever if the zerg defends appropriately. Plenty of pros recommend using speedlings to defend it and they're the most larvae intensive unit you could possibly use.
3. Wide naturals are an issue because they make spines a lot worse. Use speedlings to patrol a reasonable area around you base, if they have to make the pylon far away in a weird spot then you're halfway to beating the 4gate anyway.
4. If you stop the rush without losing your hatch/drones then yes, they actually are behind.
5. So drone up and expand yourself. You're safe for a while after a failed 4 gate.

[ToRSpartaz]

I was curious guys whats the smartest move to do after a 4gate fails? Cause its happened quite frequently with me recently and I was just wondering, like the comon thing for me is transitioning but it seems I over commit a bit =/

[BubbleT]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

I was curious guys whats the smartest move to do after a 4gate fails? Cause its happened quite frequently with me recently and I was just wondering, like the comon thing for me is transitioning but it seems I over commit a bit =/

Depends on the matchup to start with, but also how long you tried to 4 gate and what you/your opponent lost before you gave up.

Also depends on how all-in your 4 gate was (1 gas 20 probes failing is a lot worse than 2 gas 25 probes).

It's usually best to post some replays when you have a question that's kind of vague like this

[WagonWheel]

I love getting 4gated as toss.
Forcefields are amazing at stopping a push. absolutely incredible.

[UncleTom]

Originally Posted by WagonWheel

I love getting 4gated as toss.
Forcefields are amazing at stopping a push. absolutely incredible.

So foolish

[WagonWheel]

Originally Posted by UncleTom

So foolish

Should probably point out that I also throw down a fourth gateway and micro my heart out to stop it.
You know, normal stuff.

[daveofdefeat]

Such a troll, Pinder. Fair call though.

[ToRSpartaz]

Lol i have to agree i love stopping pushes with FF's

IT IS EPIC MICRO WHEN I PULL IT OFF

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Lol i have to agree i love stopping pushes with FF's

IT IS EPIC MICRO WHEN I PULL IT OFF

Its clicking 2 buttons.

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by Benji

Its clicking 2 buttons.

Exactly SO easy xD But if your microing against a 2g robo its alot of fun its more or less down to me trolling :P

[aztecx]

It's funny how when zerg came up with 3r sling rush toss screamed imbalance because for ONCE they had to scout and actually RESPOND to what a zerg player was doing. It was a big change from just building whatever the **** they want and knowing the zerg has to counter correctly in order to even stand a chance.

[aztecx]

I find at lower protoss scales best with player skill and is easiest to get the hang of. Not to mention by far the easiest to execute. ******* herp derp 4gate forcefields gg.

Took me about 100 games of playing zerg before I finally could beat weak diamond players. Took me about 3 games of protoss before I could 4 gate sufficiently well enough to beat 2200+ diamond zergs pre-masters.

[ToRSpartaz]

Lol fourgating is quite annoying in PvP becomes a micro fest -.- which is such a boooooooore!!!

[SGak]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Lol fourgating is quite annoying in PvP becomes a micro fest -.- which is such a boooooooore!!!

Play in the bronze league......every toss goes for fast void rays.

[dennistoo]

i hardly do standard 4g in ladder. i preferred korean 4gate more nowadays.

[Seagal]

the really anoying thing about the four gate is the fact that really, toss can become equal with the zerg eco wise if the zerg over protects whih seriously is hard not to do. maybe im only gold/plat but i feel as tho the 4 gate can transition into a late game.

[Aean(:]

Originally Posted by Seagal

the really anoying thing about the four gate is the fact that really, toss can become equal with the zerg eco wise if the zerg over protects whih seriously is hard not to do. maybe im only gold/plat but i feel as tho the 4 gate can transition into a late game.

In top play every little detail counts, if you cut probes for x seconds and you dont do any eco damage to the other guy, it ends up pretty bad.

[Dogsi]

Originally Posted by dennistoo

i hardly do standard 4g in ladder. i preferred korean 4gate more nowadays.

I prefer my opponent doing Korean 4 gate now because once I scout I instantly know what to expect and build to counter it.

[dennistoo]

Originally Posted by Dogsi

I prefer my opponent doing Korean 4 gate now because once I scout I instantly know what to expect and build to counter it.

I only do K4G on long distance map. Short distance i normally go defensive. And yes, it's easily scoutable. 10 plyon 10 Gate 14Gas 16 Core.

[ToRSpartaz]

Why cant i have the pheonix dp? D:

[cure]

If scouted, it can be stopped, start scouting more if you're losing as zerg (:

[Makra]

What's the difference between K4G and standard 4G? Or if anyone's willing to go out of their way a bit, what are all the variations on 4 gate?

[Dogsi]

K4G pulls all their probes from gas once they get what they need. They also make far less probes and build numerous pylons around your base and then warp in mass zealots.

[ToRSpartaz]

Im curious, in fourgating how much minerals do you guys usually stack for the first wave?

[dennistoo]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Im curious, in fourgating how much minerals do you guys usually stack for the first wave?

By the time warp gate tech is completed. I will have around 400min 200gas. If i want to be more eco friendly, i will drop 2nd gas at 20 food but only pull 2 probes to it.

However, ive seen many toss going 4Gate with 1zealot 1 stalkers before the warp gate completed to defened any rushes.

Engagement would be 1 zealot 5 stalkers.

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by dennistoo

By the time warp gate tech is completed. I will have around 400min 200gas. If i want to be more eco friendly, i will drop 2nd gas at 20 food but only pull 2 probes to it.

Dayum 0.O I think I stack too much =/ I sometimes are around 600, but thats mainly gone by second wave due to chronoing my warp gates good or bad?

[dennistoo]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Dayum 0.O I think I stack too much =/ I sometimes are around 600, but thats mainly gone by second wave due to chronoing my warp gates good or bad?

600 alittle too much. I would rather you spend that additional 200min for another zealot or plyon.

[ToRSpartaz]

Seriously when ive played recently all ive done has been fourgating like last night for instance played 6 games and fourgated each time with varied transitions I think a guy was turtling once so i went robo. But honestly over last 3 days..? Think it was 3days maybe 4 but ive won like roughly 21 ladders with 3 losses and its just like WOW how effective can a fourgate get xD

P.S. Too alll those I do realise -.- I know a heap load of other builds xD

[SkyBreaker]

When I was playing Protoss at the gold/platinum level, a majority of the PvP match-ups revolved around my opponent going for the 4gate while I tried to go for a 3gate robo, getting that quick robo and chrono-boosting out an immortal. At that level of play, the force-field was enough time to buy time for the immortal and an extra round of warp-in units; so it was usually more than enough to hold it.

However, the higher you go up in the leagues and ladders; the more refined the 4Gate is, so ofc a 3gate robo wouldn't work in all leagues and divisions.

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Why cant i have the pheonix dp? D:

The avatars are based of the user's post count, so keep active and it'll eventually become a phoenix

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by SkyBreaker

The avatars are based of the user's post count, so keep active and it'll eventually become a phoenix

Mean and would you say that fourgate was enough to get into Diamond?

[SkyBreaker]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Mean and would you say that fourgate was enough to get into Diamond?

From what I've heard from a lot of high level Protoss players; the general consensus seems to be that 4gating can get you into diamond; and according to Benji (from his streams) it is able to teach you somewhat decent macro (in terms of keeping your warp-gates on cool-down and so on).

But in my opinion; the macro you learn is only up until the 8-9 minute mark where you've either won or lost the game; not longer-game macro nor the ability to be able to think of the fly and deal with an array of scenarios that could be thrown at you (i.e. a Terran opening with cloaked banshees, or a Zerg who holds off the 4gate). That's just my opinion though, so take it as a grain of salt

[ToRSpartaz]

AWESOME !!! I really need to play some more ladders xD

[nirvAnA]

roz told me today when he power levels pple to masters he just 4 gates every game vs every race and does well.

haha the power of the 4 gate!

[Xeen]

4gate (or any standard rush from any race) is easily enough to get you to Masters with a decent winrate, because you're bashing diamonds/low masters on the way

[Mezza]

@Makra and future 4gaters

here's some resources on the difference between the 4gates,

sc2 liquipedia article on 4gate
sc2 liquipedia article on korean 4gate

there's also a day9 daily, #169 on 4gate styles.

You Tube

You Tube

and another day9 vod on huk vs tester where huk gets korean 4gated in the razer king of the beta tournament

You Tube

You Tube

that should at least be a starting point. happy 4gating

yeah all you terrans and zergs out there, i can feel the hate already. but hey, education is always good.

[Makra]

Bahaha, future 4gaters, I like it!

Thanks for that. I'll mostly just use it for team games

[PapaBigBelly]

I dont want to say that BLizzard should nerf protoss, but Blizzard should buff Zerg

Enough nerfing honestly, just make ZERG STRONGAARR

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by ArousalPerMinute

I dont want to say that BLizzard should nerf protoss, but Blizzard should buff Zerg

Enough nerfing honestly, just make ZERG STRONGAARR

Lol that is so imba xD Zerg are actually pretty effective against Protoss and same with Terran

[UncleTom]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Lol that is so imba xD Zerg are actually pretty effective against Protoss and same with Terran

Can you please no just make bland ignorant statements and give reasons why you think something is "imba" or overpowered. The general discussion doesn't get any where unless you structure your posts better with the correct information.

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by UncleTom

Can you please no just make bland ignorant statements and give reasons why you think something is "imba" or overpowered. The general discussion doesn't get any where unless you structure your posts better with the correct information.

Tom please shut up and quit Trolling I was just saying from the fact that dude wants Toss to be totally nerfed so imba xD

[cruxis]

Or carriers/mothership. I love those free win games.

[Crankenstein]

6gate off of 2 bases and do it all over again lolololol.

Seriously though... I saw a nice replay the other day where P transitioned from 4 gate into a Tyler-esque double forge build. I'll see if I can find it again.

[YJY]

Sure you can 4g, but the only reason why i have a high win ratio is because Irarely cheesed. Sure you can 4g, but at what opportunity cost? you trade your potential future skill for a few ladder points. All the players that use to 4 gate or cheese are shit now, i.e 90% of all protoss. Nice work in getting ladder points

[ToRSpartaz]

Thats a good point, I guess if you 4g too much you kinda just keep focused on 4gating im gunna try and go for mixed up builds.

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by YJY

Sure you can 4g, but the only reason why i have a high win ratio is because Irarely cheesed. Sure you can 4g, but at what opportunity cost? you trade your potential future skill for a few ladder points. All the players that use to 4 gate or cheese are shit now, i.e 90% of all protoss. Nice work in getting ladder points

Whilst i'm a big fan of this line of thinking (especially in practice), you still literally need to throw in all-in builds as every race or else your opponent is way too safe to play greedy against you.

Good example would be as protoss if you're playing vs a protoss, by never 4 gating and only doing defensive builds like 3 gate robo, you leave your opponent open to do things 1 gate robo, which is has a huge advantage over 3 gate robo.

So basically, solid > cheesy > greedy > solid is the obvious rock paper scissors thing going on here.

Yoon obviously already knows this, but just throwing this out there that it is important, mainly vs someone you've already hit on the ladder a few times and played macro style previously or you're playing a bo3/5 against, you need to not allow your opponent to be too greedy if your preferred style is macro style, cos if they're even just close to your level, you'll lose.

[StitcH]

in PvP, I almost always get 10 gate zealot rush or 4 gate.

[BubbleT]

You also definitely need to know how to 4-gate in PvP since it still pretty much defines the matchup. It's worth spending some time learning to do it yourself.

[dennistoo]

sorry, the latest thread is 3G RUSH.. look at how MC > TSL

[ToRSpartaz]

3 stalker push is actually a pretty mean build in PvP was learning it yesterday