[Free]

What do u guys do against random race and what do u guys do about it ? Example: Builds/scouting early or just ask for their race .

[iMSystem]

As a Terran, I go gas > reaper > expand.

[Meatex]

I 15 hatch and pray he isn't protoss or 14/14 and pray he isn't terran

Quick Comments

	BearPack:
	Dox:	and you wonder why you lose ;)
	TADivinity:	If you 14/14 wouldnt you pray he's not protoss?

[Free]

Wow terran just has builds for everything T_T

[SanG]

proxy 11/11, not joking, ask pokerface

Quick Comments

Pox:

[Free]

Originally Posted by cRSanG

proxy 11/11, not joking, ask pokerface

WOAH ! Bad ass build ! I did that once when I was offracing trying out zerg and it got me a win !

Quick Comments

	ToRRedemption:	doesnt he mean terran 2 rax? lol
	breadfan:	Zerg can't make barracks

[PulseSPR]

Originally Posted by cRSanG

proxy 11/11, not joking, ask pokerface

same here.

[FaMe]

Safe builds

[Free]

Originally Posted by paragonFaMe

Safe builds

Likee ?? Im kinda curious to find out what are your safe builds .

[Masterfuzzy]

Originally Posted by Free

Likee ?? Im kinda curious to find out what are your safe builds .

I'm guessing things like 14gas14pool would be considered "safe builds". It lets you be prepared for most, if not all, the early aggression and still lets you expand at 20~ supply.

[Pox]

On a two player map, I just scout at 10 and then either 15 pool or 15 hatch based on their race/build. On four player maps, I just choose one of those to do blindly (15h with late scout is somewhat of a gamble vs zerg and toss) and then find the best path back to my normal game once I've scouted their race.

I imagine you're more interested in advice for PvR... it's hard. Safest is probably to open with a gateway at the top of your ramp (i.e. old fashioned PvZ); but of course this rules out forge expo.

Quick Comments

Free:

[Free]

Originally Posted by ToRPox

On a two player map, I just scout at 10 and then either 15 pool or 15 hatch based on their race/build. On four player maps, I just choose one of those to do blindly (15h with late scout is somewhat of a gamble vs zerg and toss) and then find the best path back to my normal game once I've scouted their race.

I imagine you're more interested in advice for PvR... it's hard. Safest is probably to open with a gateway at the top of your ramp (i.e. old fashioned PvZ); but of course this rules out forge expo.

Yup im interested in advice for PvR... But I rather ask everyone what they think and do about it !

[MooZfY]

Proxy Reapers

[eCKo`Switch]

10 scout. And check for proxies :P

[Free]

So many zergs replying to this thread :O Where are the other races !!

Quick Comments

Pox:

they're on sc2eu and sc2kr ;)

[Another]

as protoss i 9pylon scout, pylon at ramp as if youre gate expanding vs zerg, then if i dont scout before its time to build gateway, i will start the wall off and play as if its a zerg, if i scout in time and its P/T ill build gateway not at ramp, if its zerg and he isnt early pool ill nexus first and delayed forge (can be a little risky, might wanna like 16pylon 17 forge, depends how good your chrisis managment is, if you wanna be really safe, get forge on high ground then 16pylon low ground.

against P/T you can play standard.

in terms of scouting for proxy, against P 9 scout on 2 player map is sufficient to get there in time and know theres nothing at home = cheesing you, on 4 player map scout the obvious spots (shak is easy spot - most other maps just middle of map) same as vs T

Quick Comments

Stallion:

perfect

[Free]

Originally Posted by IrisAnother

as protoss i 9pylon scout, pylon at ramp as if youre gate expanding vs zerg, then if i dont scout before its time to build gateway, i will start the wall off and play as if its a zerg, if i scout in time and its P/T ill build gateway not at ramp, if its zerg and he isnt early pool ill nexus first and delayed forge (can be a little risky, might wanna like 16pylon 17 forge, depends how good your chrisis managment is, if you wanna be really safe, get forge on high ground then 16pylon low ground.

against P/T you can play standard.

in terms of scouting for proxy, against P 9 scout on 2 player map is sufficient to get there in time and know theres nothing at home = cheesing you, on 4 player map scout the obvious spots (shak is easy spot - most other maps just middle of map) same as vs T

Very detailed ! Now at least I know how to deal with a random race when I find one on ladder .

[Stallion]

Originally Posted by IrisAnother

as protoss i 9pylon scout, pylon at ramp as if youre gate expanding vs zerg, then if i dont scout before its time to build gateway, i will start the wall off and play as if its a zerg, if i scout in time and its P/T ill build gateway not at ramp, if its zerg and he isnt early pool ill nexus first and delayed forge (can be a little risky, might wanna like 16pylon 17 forge, depends how good your chrisis managment is, if you wanna be really safe, get forge on high ground then 16pylon low ground.

against P/T you can play standard.

in terms of scouting for proxy, against P 9 scout on 2 player map is sufficient to get there in time and know theres nothing at home = cheesing you, on 4 player map scout the obvious spots (shak is easy spot - most other maps just middle of map) same as vs T

This is the solid way of doing it the other way of Protoss is the cannon method. you get PvT you cannon expand. PvP you cannon rush. PvZ be inventive

[Statix]

drone scout at 6, bring back

then go normal

[Pox]

Originally Posted by Statix

drone scout at 6, bring back

then go normal

This costs a LOT of economy - I'd say you're much better off just playing a safer, more general-purpose build. Besides, on some maps the 6 scout won't even guarantee you see them in time to choose a build - especially for protoss, who need to decide where to put their first pylon.

[Statix]

Originally Posted by ToRPox

This costs a LOT of economy .

not really THAT much in our league, i believe my macro to be reasonable, just make sure i 16 sat bases 2 on each patch and mine from closest nodes first as they pop. you can even make up for this by harassing min line with this drone to stop their latching on, then watch their workers bounce around . . in most cases the player pulls nearly half of the mineral line to kill this drone . . so . . may need to be revised at top level but in this league this is quite a cute trick and helps a bit with hotkey and micro practice

just looking at this a bit further, the drone only makes about 50 a minute, hes gone 3 mins on taldarim if he scouts base last, still got my pool down at same time. so yeah, 6 drone scout and then you can do your normal build which in terms of playing i think is much the better choice cos us nubs need muscle memory and familiarity to improve our play, rather than doing a build we dont really do the having nothing line up and having to do too much thinking while playing.

[Easy]

I´m a Zerg so i just 14 gas , 14 pool, 21 expand with speedlings , if he´s T then i go for a baneling bust , always scouting at 10.

[ToRSpookToR]

im usually doing a blind all in so idc what race they are but on the off chance i want to macro i go gasless expo and 13 scout or 14 scout depending on the map.as terran ofc.

Quick Comments

	BearPack:	wow! I'm surpised! A blind all-in?
	ToRDjvillian:	blind all in? really? i would never of guessed :P

[TABottles]

Absolutely stomp them

[VB_Blake]

I just do a 1 rax gasless expand and then either transition into marine/tank vs. terran or zerg or mmm vs. protoss. I hope it isnt zerg through lol

[FvRphoneheha]

You should cry

[Free]

Originally Posted by Heha

You should cry

Ya I will when I see a random race in front of my computer screen . T_T

[syfSoundwave]

Scout super early and then just do 15 hatch or 15 pool depending on what race they are.

[jayaiwhy]

Terran can just 1 rax expand against every match up aha

[Free]

All the terrans making me wanna switch over to terran ! T_T

[mGGAequitas]

as a protoss theres 2 things you can do:

on a good (read: if you can cannon rush) map you can build a pylon at your natural and scout, build a forge on 13, if you scout protoss or terran, cannon rush them, if zerg play standard ffe.

on other maps just build pylon (scout on pylon) and gateway to wall off main's ramp if terran build your core back, if protoss you can continue the wall off if you think they are 4 gating (or 2 gate zealots) or just build the core further back and if they are zerg obviously complete the wall off then just play standard.

also on 4 player maps if i dont scout them first i will send another probe to scout as well since random players tend to cheese you want to scout asap.

Quick Comments

Free:

[faithHunter]

I just either go 1rax FE or maybe go 1/1/1 Cloaked Banshees.

[ROCCAT_Savior]

10 Drone scout, 15 hatch or 15 pool depending on what I scout/

If your a Protoss, I believe there are viable FFE's you can do in all MU's. Not 100% about pvp, but I heard artosis talking about one a while back.

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by Host-

10 Drone scout, 15 hatch or 15 pool depending on what I scout/

If your a Protoss, I believe there are viable FFE's you can do in all MU's. Not 100% about pvp, but I heard artosis talking about one a while back.

Not against good players.

Whatever another said is what i do

[FvRphoneheha]

Hm Statix, I hate to sound disparaging, but if your pool goes down at the same time whether you 6 drone scout or not you're definitely doing something wrong >.< 10 drone scout and 14/14 is perfectly normal against random.

Edit: 6 drone, not 6 pool

[Statix]

Originally Posted by Heha

Hm Statix, I hate to sound disparaging, but if your pool goes down at the same time whether you 6 drone scout or not you're definitely doing something wrong >.< 10 drone scout and 14/14 is perfectly normal against random.

ah yeah sorry forgot i was posting on forums, got to say every single word, cant imply that its pretty close to normal not more than 10 seconds difference. The point im trying to make really is that in my league not one single player has constantly probed up and at 8 mins im always ahead on drone count, what the 6 drone does (well its not really 6 cos i make a worker at start, send others to mine and may get another made before i send! . . he may return his 5 minerals) is make sure that you follow ur normal build and its in this us lower players can keep our consistency and our heads in the game.

its pretty poor to open a 15 hatch against a protoss on a gamble, ive been trying to get the 15 hatch lately working against p with different pool times . . .10pool seems to be quickest as for how much this damages econ well, im not noticing any major differences really. so yeah if you want to be sure i go 6-8. Most of the time they scout you anyway . .no need to send a drone 90% of time, ive noticed their scout gets to me before a 14 pool

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Statix

ah yeah sorry forgot i was posting on forums, got to say every single word, cant imply that its pretty close to normal not more than 10 seconds difference. The point im trying to make really is that in my league not one single player has constantly probed up and at 8 mins im always ahead on drone count, what the 6 drone does (well its not really 6 cos i make a worker at start, send others to mine and may get another made before i send! . . he may return his 5 minerals) is make sure that you follow ur normal build and its in this us lower players can keep our consistency and our heads in the game.

its pretty poor to open a 15 hatch against a protoss on a gamble, ive been trying to get the 15 hatch lately working against p with different pool times . . .10pool seems to be quickest as for how much this damages econ well, im not noticing any major differences really. so yeah if you want to be sure i go 6-8. Most of the time they scout you anyway . .no need to send a drone 90% of time, ive noticed their scout gets to me before a 14 pool

If saying "I'm silver so I only have to try to macro at a silver level" is how you enjoy playing the game, then sure, keep thinking that way. Change that attitude though, and a promotion is surely coming your way. I also think that for just about every other low league player on this thread who is interested in this information, they are interested in improvement, and getting it right, so for the purposes of this thread your opinion is wrong, and rather than being indignant and argumentative, perhaps be thankful that you are getting sound advice from someone who knows what they are talking about?

You should note that as a percentage of overall income, a lost worker that early is a pretty huge impact, much bigger than at say 8 minutes or for that matter 15 or 47. It doesn't just correct itself either - it has a ripple effect that lasts for the entire game. Even if the rest of the game is riddled with mistakes, you would have still been in a better position if you scouted properly. Does that mean you would otherwise win every game you lost? No. But it does go a ways to improving your overall mechanic set.

[syfChadMann]

as protoss, FFE and then:
if they are Protoss - Cannon rush
if they are Terran - 2 cannons and enough probes at nat to hold off an all in
if they are Zerg - play standard.

Quick Comments

	Free:
	inFeZa:	This is risky to play it, but very rewarding.

[RVLiveR]

I tend to hatch first and hope he isn't p (I hatch first in zvz anyways) or I 15pool 17hatch (kinda works in zvt) and hope he isn't z

[sRDreaM]

1. Nicely ask what race they are
2. If he doesn't tell you I do early scout
3. Try to play standard from there lol

[sRDante]

I 6 scout so that
1) My opponent thinks I'm proxy-ing
2) I scout in time to choose to wall off/ take gas

Don't care about my econ

[Neova]

Similar to IrisAnother, against a random, I find that safe openers are the best bet.
I usually go for a standard opener with 2 or 3 gates all close by my nexus to reduce travelling time and get the few extra minerals.
Scout off the 9 pylon, and react from there depending on race. The 2nd pylon is best near your ramp in case you scout a rush so you can block the ramp easier.

[Fourby]

9 scout,

Vs Terran, 4 gate blink robo
Vs Protoss 4 gate
Vs Zerg, Pylon block > 4 gate

Problem?

[Free]

Originally Posted by cRFourby

9 scout,

Vs Terran, 4 gate blink robo
Vs Protoss 4 gate
Vs Zerg, Pylon block > 4 gate

Problem?

Nope no problem at all !

[SLCN.CautioN]

Kill them.

[TheGentleman]

I scout on 9!

[QEDbourkes]

I go either 1 gate robo into 3 gate robo or 1 gate (9 scout) into either 1 gate tech, 3 gate tech, 1 gate fe or 3 gate expand depending what i scout

[FsDronesInJail]

Half the time I'm jst cbf and do ling bling roach all-in. No joke lol
I probably win 3/4 games vs random with this except protoss,,,, forcefield good unit QQ
DEM BANELINGS DONT STAND A CHANCE

[Fourby]

cRFourby has left the game!

[Ghosty]

I generally send out a worker scout at 10 supply on 4p maps, 12 supply on 2p maps

[breadfan]

1 rax FE, with CC inside my main to help wall off vs cheese.

[syfChadMann]

I like all the Terran and zerg comments - "oh I just do a safe opening I can do against all races and react after I scout"
... Protoss "oh, I just leave the game cause what ever I do is a coin flip and I'm usually fucked" OR "I just cheese him"

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	just proves you are complainers :)
	Ruski:	So true

[Snx.Mufasa]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

I like all the Terran and zerg comments - "oh I just do a safe opening I can do against all races and react after I scout"
... Protoss "oh, I just leave the game cause what ever I do is a coin flip and I'm usually fucked" OR "I just cheese him"

14/14 vs terran isn't exactly viable.

plus protoss can just open forge.

[Dox]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

I like all the Terran and zerg comments - "oh I just do a safe opening I can do against all races and react after I scout"
... Protoss "oh, I just leave the game cause what ever I do is a coin flip and I'm usually fucked" OR "I just cheese him"

1 gate opening with the ability to either expand or transition into 3 gate robo after scouting seems pretty versatile to me. Less than ideal against Zerg, but still safe and flexible, no? Of course this doesn't apply on maps like TDA where you can't hold a lot of builds, but in that circumstance you can pretty much get away with opening defensive 4 gate.

I could be totally wrong about all of this - it's just my limited understanding.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

yeah I agree - and that is what I do.. but I was simply commenting on all the protoss complaining about PvR.

[VB_Rhuubarb]

The worst when I was Protoss was vs Random on TDA... I just learnt to veto that...

As Terran I go 12 rax 13 gas in vT/P anyway, so if it's a Zerg I just go reactor hellion expand instead of 1 rax expand. I'll always scout with SCV that built the depot (at the wall).

[TN.Fitz]

I just 11/11 as Terran

[Fenner]

I leave the game instantly... Pointless playing vs random, never meet any in tournaments and you can't do any normal opener vs them.

Quick Comments

	Dox:	:(
	ProAnnn:	but but you are zerg! Pool hatch is always good!

[Zombie.]

I open with 1 Rax FE, and scouting after rax (if a two player map) or after depot (4 player map) then if zerg or terran I play with lots of marines and make them regret plauing radom, if protoss I hope/pray it's there off race otherwise it's GG WP :]

Quick Comments

ETL.ViTaL:

Same 1 Rax FE with quick scouting

[Zealo]

leave the game instantly is definitely best. i need those ladder points please.

[FaDe'Shampoo]

I usually scout a tiny bit earlier, dependin on the map ofcourse

[inFeZa]

As Protoss -
Forge first, If you get vs Zerg you luck out and play it standard.
Vs terran you can hold stuff, Might have to play risky midgame.
Vs protoss you can cannon rush or play defensively, but it will be hard to hold all ins.

[HuT]

On SEA -

Proxy 15 cc > rax > 3rd cc

On KR -

1 rax fe

[ToRDolo]

Not sure if this is the best way to approach it, but as a Z I go 10 scout. On 2 player maps you'll usually be at their main by the time you're at 15 supply with 200ish minerals, and can go pool/hatch depending on race or what you scout. If I don't get a scout on the 4 player maps with the 10 drone I just go 15 pool 16 hatch usually, as you can use this build against all races to a degree. The game usually stabilises and I get into my usual compositions for each matchup, but I wouldn't say the way I approach it is perfect at all!

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Cry...

Deeply...

[Hijung]

14 pool or 16 15, both of those builds I refer back to usually in every match up.

I think you're mostly safe if you stick to any EvE builds.. ex. hatch first, 14/14, 1/1/1, 3 gate robo...

I also guess it comes down to what my opponent is doing. Is he all-inning me? Everything I was planning to do? Throw it out the window, focus on holding and maintaining a stronger economy and then counterattack. If it's ZvP I'm going to send my lings straight to his base to threaten a base trade. If it's ZvZ I'm going to tech up to roaches and push, if I have the drones. If it's ZvT I'm going to go for a macro game, it's fairly common knowledge that it's extremely difficult to kill a Terran early game. Sure, you can go for a bane rush, And maybe that will work, but I rather play safe, go for that +1/1 and deny that second. If he goes for mech, bane roach muta festor broodlord... Strange unit comp but the way I'm thinking this through is basically..

1. Banelings are surprisingly good against mech, however, so my mutalisks can get a good sweepthrough I'm going to have to target the thors..

2. But the thors and tanks will demolish my banelings, so I'll use my roaches as a meat shield as well as to finish any possible thors that are in the way.

3. The infestors burrow and attack first. Spawning many infested terrans, then the banelings and roaches follow.

4. Broodlord and Mutalisks to do the cleanup, reprod everything else and continue attacking.

BASICALLY, if you play vs random, DON'T PANIC, SCOUTING IS YOUR FRIEND. Forgive the last part of my post, I'm very tired so take it for what you will, lol.

[nGenLight]

Gateway scout at 13 and not give a damn?
(Pylon and Gateway right next to the Nexus, so you can "zone" the lings if you get 6pooled or something)
Adjust builds from what you scout thereafter.

[ayuruji]

Scout... of course.

[Fairyking]

9 pylon - scout - 13 gate then either gateway expand if terran or zerg and go into usual game if toss.