[ToRSpartaz]

Today is a sad day, in fact this has been coming for a fair while now. Unfortunately I am announcing that Team ToR is leaving Avant Gaming after 6 months within the organisation.

+ [Disclaimer:] +

My post might be a little off in terms of structure/spelling - Balancing an assignment at the same time so my apologies ><

Effective immediately after the "new" direction that Avant has been taking in regards to it's management structure along with it's way of responding to players the decision to leave the organisation has taken place.

+ [Our Experiences with Avant over the last 6 months:] +

Back around October last year, we were made aware that there was an opportunity that our team would be able to leap at - That opportunity was Avant Garde.

We came into the organisation fresh and eager, with the idea that after all of our hard work leading up to joining Avant would be rewarded with real opportunities for our team to showcase how much they have grown and developed.

The first few months with Avant were fairly quiet, with the issues that were had regarding Tt eSports - The organisation were definitely on the rise from that point onwards, receiving more interest from potential companies to negotiate contracts.

When the organisation signed the first contract, since our joining with Avant, with Palit Microsystems we were super excited that we would be finally receiving some support from Avant. The first of that being was the name changes that we needed in order to represent the organisation. So we asked Wes, who is now technically in control of Avant, for the money in order to provide new accounts/a main account for the tags for the organisation. Months passed and when PJ presented the opportunity for the clans and teams to make a request for Blizzard to reserve the tags for the Clan Support feature for SC2, I jumped at the chance. Basically we asked for what was it $50 for the tags, which I didn't receive on time. So once the clan feature had been introduced, I approached Nirvana and paid for a new account myself. I think a week later I was reimbursed, but for months there was no signs of support or any indication that we would be provided with the funds for simply representing Avant ingame.

Just before ACL kicked off there was an internal management issue inside Avant, which some of you may or may not of seen on Cybergamer, but essentially it was the takeover of the organisation by the current owner Wes, from MKR - The founder of Avant. This brought across issues for the security of the team, because there were comments made against the team that spelt out in bold words that our team was viewed as "second rate" and as a result of that we wouldn't be deemed as equal as other platforms. This only strengthened our resolve moving into ACL Brisbane to represent Avant.

As you guys probably will know by now, both NXZ and Pezz did really well representing Avant and the guys at ACL Brisbane, unfortunately Pezz only losing out a place in the groups by going 1-2 to teammate NXZ, who went on to take 4th place at ACL Brisbane. We were really starting to open the eyes of the other players and management in Avant.

Unfortunately, despite showing what our team was capable of in regards to NXZ/Pezz's performance at ACL, the issues continued on after ACL and it came a time for us to act.

We were presented an unprofessional contract that could not sign. It granted little security for our players. It granted full control upon any decisions made that should be up to the player to the acting CEO of the organisation, which was in this case Wes. It put us in a position where we knew that our future with Avant was coming to an end.

What does this mean for the Team for the mean time?

Well definitely for the next month or so, we are going to step back a little and evaluate our options. There are a few paths that we can go down in our eSports journey, but we aren't going in to make any hasty decisions - I for one am looking forward to a bit of a break after the time and effort I put in aside from SC2 into Avant ><.

Despite the recently poor experience I hold the organisation itself in much respect. The people whom I have come into contact with have really added to my learning experience with this organisation, the Gears of War team, D1M1 and BLOPs have all been really great dudes to get on with. As well as my fellow manager Seth, who cares enormously for the wellbeing of the players.

to all that have read through this long winded post - And thank you for all the support you guys have show us across the last few months

Quick Comments

ToRMcLovin:

<3

[SLCN.Petrify]

Disappointing, Team ToR is full of incredible players and great people, I hope that you guys are able to find a new home. If its worth anything I think you guys made the complete correct decision, contracts like that are utter crap.

Quick Comments

asdfSchnitzel:

jimcredible*

[Dox]

Sorry to hear this happened to you, although I'm not surprised to say the least. Almost all Australian eSports "organisations" suffer from this lack of maturity/management. Most of our scene (outside of SC2) is stuck in a revolving door.

Hope to see you guys get picked up and supported in a more professional capacity ASAP, or perhaps you can look back on these experiences and use the opportunity to build your own standalone brand. It sucks especially after the momentum you built up at ACL. >_<

All the best.

[Baldie]

All the best for finding a new home. Although sad it is good to see you have control of your players once again in what appeared to become a less than ideal circumstance. The team has self driven and motivated players so I have no doubt they will keep themselves busy and training in the downtime.

Goodluck and good fighting!

[syfChadMann]

When I heard Wes was taking over from MKR I was worried.

Sucks that this has happened to you guys and I hope you can get things rollin' in a new direction for Team ToR!

I'd suggest to anyone approached by Wes from Avant about joining his team, to speak with Spartaz before taking any offer.

Quick Comments

ToRTinyTeddy:

I think everyone was worry when Wes took over..

[SLCN.NXZ]

I have nothing but respect for Av as an organisation and wish them the best of luck in the future. I felt that it was best for myself and Av to part at this point, regardless of the other guys. I believe that things such as pox's name change post is unnecessary and spiteful and am disappointed that we couldn't be more professional in that regard.

Also I will be leaving Team ToR as well to reconsider and pursue other options as a player. Thanks so much for having me although it was for a brief time Spartaz and Co .

Quick Comments

	RuineD:	pox #1 bm SEA
	Snx.FigJig:	Pox be more professional jeez
	ROCCAT_Savior:	******* Pox.
	Pox:	dick move pox
	Dox:	GOD DAMN IT DOX
	asdfSchnitzel:	freaking pox

[asdfSchnitzel]

This is a really sad day, but Team ToR will live on!

[x5.Stormz]

Good luck ToR in your future eSports endeavours hopefully the next one will be more successful And good luck NXZ! I have no doubt you will find a new home in no time!!!

[mGGPrometheus]

That sucks, Av.ToR is a very strong team and I hope ToR finds better sponsors, the players deserve it.

[syfSoundwave]

Well, this is some shitty news.

[Reere]

Sad to hear, but Team ToR has come a long way. 5 steps forward, half a step back. Heads up and press on! I believe the team's future will be bright! ToR FIGHTING~!

Quick Comments

ToRGreenArchon:

The ToR Phoenix always arises from the ashes

[BAD.BiGbiRd]

Standard from org's in Aus tbh, hope you guys find something soon. Really talented and cool guys

[IXLives]

Definitely sad to hear, between the excitement of new teams and the amount of work you guys have put in. That being said, good to see people haven't lost sight of where they came from. Even with this setback, given awesome and authentic leadership like this you guys are bound to keep moving forward. Best of luck guys.

[Av zShy]

Well its been one helluva run since I've come onto the organization, Nick has been around from the beginning of the recreation that is AVANT and provided his extensive knowledge to the management team as we've developed from the ground up and I have nothing but respect for him even as he departs.

Unfortunately it's come to this point, I feel the thread bashes Wes a little hard and paints him in an overly negative light with a bit of a one sided truth. Its a bit frustrating as we've only been running for 6 months and we've been considered a new organization branching out into esports, all of the early decisions that were made were based on a voting system between all the managers. Wes can't be considered solely at fault for anything within that time frame. Everything after the takeover can be considered otherwise between myself and him as we took the steps to change. I won't go into the details that most of you would like to hear (soz) as it would just proceed to derail the thread but without Wes AVANT wouldn't exist today and the support we have provided to SC2 (and all of our other gaming platforms) just outright wouldn't have been seen. While I won't go as far as to outright deny any of what was said, little was mentioned of the times we did support the players, ACL being a prime example as the first major SC2 LAN (iirc) we had attended. I'll be straight up, our handling of the SC2 division previous to ACL isn't perfect (far from it .__.) and we've taken actions so situations like this don't occur again.

Regarding the contract, I feel the comment was fairly unneeded as we have made plenty of efforts for revisions to cater more to the players needs and there seem to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this. Unfortunately those conflictions couldn't be resolved and so has lead to this situation. We had a lot planned for SC2 in the upcoming year so its a bit of a shame.

Again, personally I have nothing but respect for Nick and wish him all the best as he makes his way through the 'Sea of esports' and the future. The team itself as well, from when I engaged with them they all came across as top, friendly blokes just out to play some SC2 and kick ass. BoL to ToR in general as they go onto make waves in SEA region.

While I'm sure we're not exactly the shining beacons of hope right now in the eyes of the community we're still keen on SC2 as an esport title to support and would definitely look at players searching for an org. In the end a lot of the community has heard from one respected opinion in the community regarding Wes / the org and so we urge individuals to still keep an open mind.

Quick Comments

iM tgun:

Good post.

[zenabi]

Really sad to hear this D: Nick you are one of , if not, the best manager anyone could ask for, not just for your love for sc2 and Esports, but the way you care for these guys like they are literally your own brothers. If you need help with anything, just shout out. Look forward to seeing team tor rise again bigger and ore badass than before. ToR Fighting!!!

[ThatGuyDoMo]

Oh dang, this is pretty big news :S

I hope Team ToR stays together, you guys are hella good players and should be able to find new sponsors / representation in no time.

Interested to see where NXZ finds a new home

[LordByrnsy]

MKR == My Kitchen Rules??

[Pandan]

We were presented an unprofessional contract that could not sign.

I have read the standard AVANT player contract before - and it's nothing special and nothing undue or unfair to the players; there are some key points in it that every gaming team related contract has stipulations on, such as;

• All gaming gear/provided equipment belongs to the org until X time (usually 6 months or something like that) - so that players dont join then quit immediately after receiving gear
• There are standard no abuse/code of conduct in it (normal stuff)
• Players are expected to be involved in content creation, twitter/facebook stuff (all normal stuff)
• Product reviews are also a standard thing, last copy I saw had I think 1 month requirements in it
• Conditions of notice with regards to the org paying online/lan fees (normal)

I can understand that someone who doesn't deal with contracts might think that you're getting dealt with unfairly, but there is NOTHING wrong with the AVANT contracts I have seen.

In my personal opinion though, I don't like how wordy and 'traditional' the contract is. I can see it as a mental hurdle for younger gamers to get over - as it just appears over-the-top to most.

For the record, with Archaic we never made players sign a lengthy or wordy contract, we just made them sign a code of conduct and straight up told them the minimum promise of commitment, and their rules (don't be a retard) and we signed off on that document. Some of the commitments were min. 1 international trip per year, some were a minimum of 4 national trips, some where simply gear + online + lan fees.

Every contract is different to some extent because every player is different.

If you're blaming the contract, I'd be confident in saying it's an overreaction. If you have other reasons and are just using this as the final kicker; then that's fair enough - but let me assure you, the AVANT contract that I've seen is perfectly fine and reasonable. I personally think it should appear less wordy as gamers are younger, mostly inexperienced in business - but never-the-less there is nothing dodgy about the contract, it is very standard practice.

[UncleTom]

Wow, really wasn't expecting this, it is indeed a sad day.

[SLCN.Petrify]

Originally Posted by Pandan

If you're blaming the contract, I'd be confident in saying it's an overreaction. If you have other reasons and are just using this as the final kicker; then that's fair enough - but let me assure you, the AVANT contract that I've seen is perfectly fine and reasonable. I personally think it should appear less wordy as gamers are younger, mostly inexperienced in business - but never-the-less there is nothing dodgy about the contract, it is very standard practice.

I'm studying commercial law and contract law was one of my strongest subjects - so let me assure you the avant contract (if you want to call it that) was pretty much a joke. There is absolutely no way it should ever be considered 'fine and reasonable' practice. Disclaimer: I'm not sure if its changed since i've seen it.

What the contract provided players:

1. A piece of gear from gamecom; however only if they are considered 'core'. And then its said that the captain gets to decide who is core, but followed up by this little gem.

AVANT management have the final say on who is core and who is sub.

2. Erm... nothing else? It offers the 'prospect' of LAN entry and flight payments.

What the contract takes away from players:

1. Every right possible. Basically if you forget to brush your teeth in the morning I'm pretty sure Avant can terminate the contract.

My personal favourite quotes from the contract:

2.

5.2.2 "; these consequences are looked at on a case by case basis with AVANT management. There is no limit to what AVANT can do."

3:

1.1.1. If a team wishes to leave AVANT, four (4) weeks’ notice must be provided in writing to either of the following emails in point 5.5.1 before the end of the four (4) month period.
1.1.2. If no written warning is provided in time and the team or player still decide to leave, AVANT reserve the right to recall all support given, from product, gear & financial support.

4:

5.7 Breaches of this Agreement are determined by AVANT management.

Seriously you'd think that if they were going to provide as many ridiculous terms in the contract as they did, they'd at least provide some sort of arbitration clause, but nope if avant says you did something wrong - you better believe you did.