[AceWing]

I've played about 50 ladder games, and realised that my win rate on cloud kingdom is extremely low. As a gold terran, here are the problems I faced.

Against Zerg

Ever since pro gamers have been building the proxy hatch at the third and mid-xelnaga tower, walk 2 queens on top of it, puke out creep then cancel the hatch, zerg's creeping has been getting more and more annoying. There were several times when the zerg had spreaded creep all over the place, covering almost all of the possible attack path and even my fourth. I tried my best to scan and deny creep tumours, tried using hellions early to scout and deny creep, but I just couldn't keep up with zergs with 4-5 queens off 3 bases. It was extremely hard for my to hold my fourth against Zerg, given their creep spread as well as the 2 long paths in the middle area. Zergs tend to crowd around there and I have to pre-split my marine tank mediv army, and that often contained me while the zerg takes a 5th or a 6th while I'm busy defending my fourth and keeping up with macro. I find it hard to drop as well with ovies over at cliffs and creeps as well.

Against Protoss

Often I fall onto a long macro game with protoss given the long attack route (there are times I abused the cliff and loaded units on top while my remaining army take out the nat and won). I couldn't figure out the timing of protoss building HT, and often only when I spot 2-3 HTs in their army then I begin to build ghost. I find it hard to attack up a 3 base protoss given that they had HT on top of the ramp on the nat to middle area (the one with destructible rocks in the start), and my drops aren't as effective either. What should I improve on?


How do I approach these matchups? I know watching pro-replays is one, but there are some game mechanics which I couldn't understand (build timings, attack timings etc)

[Malice]

Veto the map if you don't like it.

Quick Comments

	LaughingMan:	^^ This
	AceWing:	I wanted to but since most tournaments have CK as a compulsory bracket matchup I'd prefer to practice on it

[VB_WhiplashJC]

At gold level if you're having problems against creep I'd suggest you're being too passive.

Post a replay.

Quick Comments

AceWing:

Should I get 4-6 hellions every game? I'm afraid of moving my initial marines actually in fear of ling run ins

[AxS.pinealan]

When in doubt, browse Day[9] videos. I believe he had analysed timings a while ago. You should be able to get some idea about timings.

Quick Comments

	AceWing:	When I joined sc2 I was a little too late, day9 has over 400 episodes :( I'm trying my best to view newbie tuesday
	Fairyking:	You can rewatch them man he has a youtube you're not too late for anything

[breadfan]

14% win rate, over how many games? If it's only 7 games, it's a bit hasty to jump to the conclusion that it's the map.

[Seffy]

Really one of the ways you can get a better win-rate is to just focus on a build against one of the races, and keep improving until it becomes bread and butter to you.

Always stay on top of scouting, do the 6:30 scan, and observe building timings and such. And watch replays or post them on the replay feedback thread, someone should help you out.

If you aren't bothered with any of those things, veto the map. I wouldn't really recommend it seeing as it's in map pool for a lot of things, but it is up to you.

[VB_heathen]

I'm not very good, so take this with a grain of salt. I always build hellions, they are just a good early game unit for scouting, harass and map control, along with banshees. I recall seeing a few terrans using a raven coupled with 2-3 banshees to deny creep. Could be a good idea when the zerg is going for 3 base, Mass queen play/Roaches or anything but spire. I don't mind cloud kingdom when versing Zerg to be honest.

[|Erasmus|]

cloud kingdom is a pretty good map for TvZ imo. Lots of chokes to force units into vs. tanks (i do play mech though).

I've never seen this proxy hatch creep thing... I guess there's no reason not to make a single raven with a hellion banshee opener now you can just save energy up until you get seeker missile with no upgrades.

But definitely post replays. Noone can help you without knowing what your problems are...

[Karma93]

Ahh yes I remember watching an Iron Squid game against MKP, I think. Where the Zerg player used the proxy hatch cancel creep strat. I'm only in silver so I havent had to deal with that yet but I am dreading it once I get higher. Perhaps you could look at some Terran players and see how they deal with it.

[osrusher]

cloud kingdom is my favourite map although its unbalance