[Ghosty]

Of recent month/s Protoss players seem much more adept at dealing with the Stephano 12-13minute Roach max (I rarely see it done at 11mins) through various methods, mostly Immortal-sentry. I'm not complaining, this is awesome & I like variety in the game.

• I'm interested in hearing how most other Zerg players have adapted to this change.
• I have seen Dimaga's bane-rain style that seems to work nicely vs FF
• I have also seen people using Muta - ling now which also works quite nicely vs the Immortal Sentry style Toss utilize more of present.
• The transition out of failed 12min Roach max seems to be getting a 4th & Infestation Pit / Spire up and teching to BL whilst turtling & throwing down spines (correct me if i'm wrong), although Protoss' Broodlord senses usually start to tingle as the Hive is finishing & timing attack ensues

Do you guys still use the same rough gas/tech timings? e.g.
Quick 3rd @4:00-4:30
2 gas @ 6:00
Roach Warren, 3rd+ gas & evo @ 7:00
Macro Hatch @ 8:00

or have you changed your timings to accommodate a different style of play?

I'm just interested in hearing what builds & metagame styles you guys are using really.

Thanks for reading

Ghosty

Quick Comments

SLCN.NXZ:

13 mins won't do anything, if you're not maxed by 12 mins you messed up :P

[FsDronesInJail]

I still follow the quick max technique but I don't use it for the purpose of killing him. With this build I found that I was extremely safe mid game. So I thought why don't I go to a slightly slower hive tech broodlords, but much safer with a maxed army defending while I am teching up. I normally morph my first broodlord around 17-18 min mark if I pull it off well. But I do need to watch out for an all-in during the 8 - 10 minute part of the game, that is the most vulnerable time of this build

[SLCN.Kez]

make some roaches and lings, if he has a third just take a 4th and a 5th, drone to 100, tech, make spines and win. Or you can go muta into 4th and 5th, drone to 90 or so, make ultra and win.
The stephano max is actually just a really strong semi-allin so its no surprises protoss will beat you if they hold it

And yeah same timings for roach warren + gas's as they are just good timings to stop pressures and other various all-ins

Quick Comments

BearPack:

This is the best way to play

[mGGMueX]

In ZvP I usually open with the stephano roach timings, but rather than waiting for the maxout to attack, I start attacking at around 10 mins. The build is very solid and allows me to defend most 2 base timings, and if I scout immortal/sentry I can pressure him enough to buy time to get baneling drops out.

[Neblime]

Originally Posted by DronesInJail

But I do need to watch out for an all-in during the 8 - 10 minute part of the game, that is the most vulnerable time of this build

If you overlord sac at about 6-7, you will see if he's 6gating or something else crazy (unless he denies scouting with stalks, but i think in that case you should assume something is up) and you just have to stop droning sooner and get plenty of roach, I can't say anyone has done an 8-10 all in vs me involving immortal, so roach should be able to hold off whatever he's planning.
Then again i am only so maybe i'm approaching this the wrong way?

[S2Glow]

i have met some protoss that hide their gateway really well , sac 1 olord on main base to me is just based on luck whether the olord get to all in or not :/

[Fairyking]

You have no hope! :P

[FsDronesInJail]

You will know whether protoss is going to attack based on scouting his gas at his natural expansion.
By the 7-8 minute mark if he hasn't taken gas expect 5-8 warp gate aggression or 4 gate robo aggression.
Scouting chrono-boosts on forge or cybernetics are also key things to scout for

[Ripped]

Still roughly the same build

[RVLiveR]

I still use the same general build, but get speed (for both ling and roach) slightly faster. I then double prong and try to deny him to 2 bases. Before I max out (~150 supply or so) I build a fourth anyways and mass spines + hive. In most maps a failed (blocked in any way) double prong can allow you to flank the army at his third (Daybreak, Cloud Kingdom, etc.)

[DarKcS]

Can always go mutas, or infestors mass spine broods

[sREnigma]

What I do is open with the 3 base max roach bs only i will make more lings and grab +1 melee. Throw down a spire after my lair pops and get +1 attack. I do as much damage as i can and use enough roaches to force him to make plenty of immortals then i do a muta ling switch and try to kill him.

i've been doing this for a long time before i even knew about stephanos or drgs style.
It works ok but i try to allin with it because i don't like late game zvp and try to avoid it and if they get ht and archons really early for what ever reason then i will be in some trouble. but getting archons is a weird choice if i'm going mass roach but people like to play weird sometimes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TAEaeron]

I find Mutas are a good transition as they generally already have a robo for the push; they will go robo tech as their attack. Mutas slaughter robo tech

[x5_Namakaye]

GOing mutas every now and then can be good cause the roach max is so common, might throw toss off their game

[BearPack]

Originally Posted by sRNamakaye

GOing mutas every now and then can be good cause the roach max is so common, might throw toss off their game

The style that protoss play when taking a quick third uses a lot of gateways for wall-offs. By going mutas, not only are you letting them keep all the units they can make from the additional warpgates, but you are letting them get away with taking a third base without doing anything drastic yourself.
It basically sets yourself up for a 200/200 protoss deathball army coming at you at a very fast time.

Personally, I REALLY like the dimaga baneling-drop style to **** up their sentries, coupled with a roach push. It's cute, and because people have moved on from baneling drops on ladder, it catches plenty of protoss off guard.