[CyniX]

Hey, every now and then, more often on 2 player maps my 15 hatch will be blocked by a terran building at my natural. This screws me over because if I don't somehow deny that SCV from putting the building up, I have to send a lot of drones to kill it to put my hatch there.

Alternatively I could put my expansion somewhere else but it seems like it'd be too undefendable. Opening pool first also seems really weak since the standard nowadays is to open 15 hatch to have a good economic opener + the quick creep at the natural for spines to deflect Hellion openers.

I feel having 2-3 drones at the natural a little before the time a typical SCV scout would get there would be the best option to deflect it but that seems like it'd hurt your economy a lot aswell and I'm also confused as to why Pro-Zergs don't do that. If they did get Hatch-blocked what would their response be otherwise?

Also why don't more Terrans, especially on 2 player maps try to do this? I feel 100-125 mineral delay on their next structure/orbital isn't much compared to Zerg having to completely expand in an odd location/pull drones to kill the building or open Pool first. It's not so bad when Protoss delay the expo because it's standard and Protoss don't a unit which needs to be deflected quickly with Spine Crawlers which need creep (Hellions).

Thanks :P
CyniX.

[wTlzq]

u can just throw down a pool, theres no need to pull drones to kill it, leaving one drone at the natural would do

1) gasless pool into hatch is a good choice
2) he needs to pull one scv very very early to your natural ( mining time loss)
3) barracks/gas would be delayed, not to mention the 100+ minerals he would be stocking up by not cancelling the building

Yes it is very irritating but most terrans dont do that as they dont know how the zerg would transition out of it. (some zergs go one base bane bust, roach rush etc)

[CyniX]

Hmmmm okay, I feel in the high levels transioning into a roach or bane bust would be a bad idea because if you haven't got an expo down you are 100% all in and they can prepare accordingly. So I guess I can go gasless pool, but the 100-125 minerals they are stocking up (till cancel) feels like a very good trade considering you are delaying the whole second base for 65 seconds + time for lings to build/attack building (not kill because they cancel.)

1 drone won't deflect the building, you need 2-3 because an SCV can still get a building down and get it to a decent amount of HP before needing to run away, especially with how hard it is to click it and the constant bouncing from 1 side of the building to the other with the building animation.

[Snx.Mufasa]

Just build a pool.

1 worker to kill the scv.

Kill the building when lings come out.

Done.

[CyniX]

Originally Posted by iVnMufasa

Just build a pool.

1 worker to kill the scv.

Kill the building when lings come out.

Done.

Ok I think I'll do this, so has anyone done any calculations on who comes out ahead when Terran do this? It feels like Terran would and if so, why isn't it standard for them? D:

[Snx.Mufasa]

Originally Posted by CyniX

Ok I think I'll do this, so has anyone done any calculations on who comes out ahead when Terran do this? It feels like Terran would and if so, why isn't it standard for them? D:

Well if none of the pro's do it then it probs isn't worth it is it?

I mean it can be defs annoying for zerg but they've gotta send out such an early scv plus the investment into a depot or ebay.

[breadfan]

Because they don't need to

Quick Comments

	Snx.Mufasa:	haha very true : p
	Fenner:	LOL
	Theend:	this post > the rest on top + below

[mGGAequitas]

because they can just put a bunker up and kill your expansion

[VandaL]

you should be able to force cancel the bunker by the time it comes up, or at least chase the scv away.
sending a scv scout to deny pre 15-hatch would require something like a 10-11 scout. that would interrupt timings for the rax refinery and OC.
arguably not as great a loss i suppose as forcing three drones off mining, but the gains from it aren't that great to bother myself with the trouble i suppose haha

[KFCrumpet]

i have terran players regulary putting engineering bays at my natural. i know it was pretty standard in BW

[ProAnnn]

if block ur 15 hatch, just go 15 pool into queen + lings into hatch. Doesnt puts u really behind.

[PiG]

If zerg reacts perfectly the zerg gets ahead. This is often the case for pylon blocking zerg expansions in ZvP as well but many people don't realise this because most zergs screw up their reaction. As people have said above, just use 1 drone to kill the scv and keep building drones and your pool in your main. IF the ebay or whatever only getrs like 50-100hp then sometimes its worth it to break down with 2 drones. However usually its best to just wait for lings, get a faster queen, and you're on pretty much the same larva, maybe 2-3 less.

The reason is a Queen produces 4 larvae/40seconds. A hatchery produces only 3 larva/45 seconds. Therefore having your queen on your main faster and having a queen ready for your natural the MOMENT it finishes negates much of the lost larva in the large delay on your expansion.

Most common mistake is THINKING about how to respond ingame. If you ever have to think about a response in game I can guarantee you you aren't macroing while you're wondering what to do. Remember next time the moment you see it:
1) attack scv with 1 drone
2) Build pool
3) build overlord and keep building drones

Normally people idle on 3 larva for ages and bank alot of resources because they get confused.

gl!

Quick Comments

	Snx.Mufasa:	perfect
	CyniX:
	Arma:	Very useful advice :)
	Nemo:	And then makes a incredible come back to win 2-1
	TARane:	thank you sir

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by PiG

If zerg reacts perfectly the zerg gets ahead. This is often the case for pylon blocking zerg expansions in ZvP as well but many people don't realise this because most zergs screw up their reaction. As people have said above, just use 1 drone to kill the scv and keep building drones and your pool in your main. IF the ebay or whatever only getrs like 50-100hp then sometimes its worth it to break down with 2 drones. However usually its best to just wait for lings, get a faster queen, and you're on pretty much the same larva, maybe 2-3 less.

The reason is a Queen produces 4 larvae/40seconds. A hatchery produces only 3 larva/45 seconds. Therefore having your queen on your main faster and having a queen ready for your natural the MOMENT it finishes negates much of the lost larva in the large delay on your expansion.

Most common mistake is THINKING about how to respond ingame. If you ever have to think about a response in game I can guarantee you you aren't macroing while you're wondering what to do. Remember next time the moment you see it:
1) attack scv with 1 drone
2) Build pool
3) build overlord and keep building drones

Normally people idle on 3 larva for ages and bank alot of resources because they get confused.

gl!

Agree! That's why i generally cancel my pylon after blocking for as long as possible! Then send the probe back to harass. 25 minerals to delay the hatch till lings pop is much more worth it than 100 minerals to delay 10-15s more.

Quick Comments

PiG:

[CyniX]

Thanks PiG, your contribution of knowledge has potentially saved many desks that didn't deserve to be flipped.

[FvRelimzkE]

D: that's so handy
cheers for that PiG

[ToRPandarine]

i dont usually bother cause i always scout so slow but if i do...it depends on what i have the minerals for...depot for quick...ebay if i want to be really annoyin...

on to the problem: yea, gettin the 2 queens wld be handy cause once u take out the building and hatch is up, u can pretty much get back in...

i was wonderin, if u use the 2nd queen to spread creep, wld it hv the energy to inject once the hatch is up?

[gandalf5000]

Originally Posted by iRLProAnnn

Agree! That's why i generally cancel my pylon after blocking for as long as possible! Then send the probe back to harass. 25 minerals to delay the hatch till lings pop is much more worth it than 100 minerals to delay 10-15s more.

Seeing toss let the pylon finish in response to 12pool makes me smile every time.

[sRDreaM]

Mmm weird I haven't see alot of terrans do it when it's a 2 player map I usually just run my scv around so they can't build a hatchery lol

[Aights]

I honestly don't know why I don't see terrans dump e-bays on the natural
Personally as a Zerg player, I go Idra when I see that (not actually leaving though)
Again, some terrans don't want to disrupt their build or something
I reckon it's more cost-efficient to deny expo for terran

[Crankenstein]

I don't do it because I want the zerg to play macro. The last thing I want to encourage is a DRG roach bane all in that anyone with half a brain can execute well enough. I want them to do a standard macro game and then beat them with mechanics, multitasking and better decision making.

Quick Comments

CyniX: