[ToRSpookToR]

Hello sc2sea!

First of all merry Christmas secondly i was laddering on NA and i have been struggling against a certain style, where the Protoss goes 1 gate robo and adds 3 more gates on 1 base his plan i believe is to contain me (i went gasless FE) he gets a 2nd base and gets colossus whilst i am still on 1 base i am not sure as to how to deal with this. i eventually do break out but by then i am to far behind to be able to catch up. Any suggestions. (replay attached)

I watched the replay my self and took a few notes
- Scouted very early gas but he only built zelots at the start meaning he should be teching fast ( i think correct me if i am wrong) this is an indicator that i could be facing this useful when i come up it again
- Lost that refactored rax didn't need to that was just sloppy
- Late factory mainly due to the confusion i was facing at the time :S ( i think i could have used tanks to help break out also earlier medivacs to drop him and try to cause economic damage)
- I suspected a 4 gate with a WP but he didn't commit possible tipping off that he was expanding/getting HT/DT or getting colossus (or all of the above) (again could be wrong in my assumptions)
- needed to drop more when i did break out i just sat there doing nothing
- My macro was bad after i did break out i could have had a bigger army when engaging at the end not that it would have mattered i think
- allowed Protoss to get his ideal army without consequence
- No ghosts for HT (again i don't think it would have mattered)

Any help would be appreciated thank you

[Stallion]

if you 1 rax expand you should be able to get a bunker down and micro well enough that your fine. if you are having heaps of issues do the reactor expand (harvest enough for a reactor no more) as shows gas to toss so they think its a 2 rax/ 3rax / 1-1-1 build and then reactor marines as you bunkers expand cruxBoss did this for ages.. this is without watching the replay as i know the timings of what i can do to a terran 1 rax expanding who does it properly. IF pain persists harras me to watch a couple of games

[ToRSpookToR]

Okay cheers man i will give it a shot the reason why i didnt go down and bunker up was that i though a 4 gate was coming i can easily hold a 4 gate at the top of my ramp but sometimes i can and sometimes i cant hold it when it is at my Nat, but then this can happen i guess never really started happening until like a week ago so its a bit new xD

[Stallion]

haha if your scary of 4 gate learnt eh timing and put a second bunker down behind the first and use supply depos to help your wall off

[Crowned]

When I gasless FE against Protoss I throwdown a single bunker outside of my expansion at 4:30 everytime just to stop the opening 1zeal/1stalker harrass and then based on scouting throw down any additional if you smell a 4gate or in this case that contain play just so you can safely get your cc to your expo ASAP.

[Crowned]

Just finished watching the whole replay, but I think if you have initially setup your defensive position on the low ground you would have been in alot better shape, you could have got the oc down at your expo, and you would have had more room to micro around.

You wasted 3 scans trying to find/kill his observer, and 2 more just to see if he expanded. That could have been 5 mules for you once you're OC finally landed at the 3' o clock base you floated too. You were definitely behind all game which is not a comfortable position to be in, but the one thing you were ahead in was upgraded. You should have waited for your 2/2 to finish before you made that final push. You also lost 3 medivacs full of units throughout the game. I feel you were the better player just didn't have your best game.

[ToRSpookToR]

That is true i didn't put the scans down because i thought there are other over reaching factors ohk i will try to get bunker at 4.30 thanks heaps guys, the reason i didnt push with 2/2 was because i had a sudden occurrence that i am being way to passive so i just said **** it and attacked :s.

[Crowned]

Anytime you get that far behind, you just want to survive until you get to 200/200 because then you guys are on even footing unless he has you beat in upgrade and in this case you would have won that if he was passive enough to let you get to 200/200.

[Stallion]

if you are behind bunker up and try hellion drops. as i learnt via getting owned by YoonYJ in the last CO hellion drops are going to be what terrans do to kill the maximum amount of probes possible. Also when i say bunker up i mena make more than needed you can get back into the game via drops. and im assuming you are wall off your front with supply depos and bunkers and make the bunkers back to back instead of sideways so that the charge loses effect.

[ToRSpookToR]

Oh wow learning heaps i assume id need vikings to kill colossus and with bunkers i would nullify storm, is a Terran army on 200 as good as a Toss army on 200? my control would need to be pretty good if he had colossus and HT :S assuming i do pull it of that is something to think about.

[FaDeBadger]

No, your army will not be as good. But with good micro and landing good emps you can make the most dangerous part of the toss' army a lot less powerful.

[Stallion]

1army 2ghosts 3 vikings and there lots to learn such as u have vikings and he didnt go colos land the vikings take the charge then lift off allowing your main army to dps to there fullest extent which is a lot with marines

[ToRSpookToR]

yeah i go 1 army 2 ghosts or vikings i really need a 3rd one, i just played another game where i played really bad lol i did how ever get my expansion up even though i had to pull scvs of mining who chronos stalker twice (i think what a dick) he then did the same thing except he was an ass and took the gold and i just moved out and 1ad his army tyvm for your help

[jlktrl]

Originally Posted by Spo0k

Okay cheers man i will give it a shot the reason why i didnt go down and bunker up was that i though a 4 gate was coming i can easily hold a 4 gate at the top of my ramp but sometimes i can and sometimes i cant hold it when it is at my Nat, but then this can happen i guess never really started happening until like a week ago so its a bit new xD

the problem with defending on your ramp is that you can get contained. the natural provides much more surface area for you so all your units can chase his units away at once. on your ramp, the only way is to try to stim down your ramp but you can get easily FFed.

[|Erasmus|]

Just expand below your ramp. You had little reason to expect a 4 gate as you saw one fairly normally timed gas (it was a tad early because this toss went 12 gate rather than 13 gate, and he'd spent 2 rather than 1 chrono on probes like a normal 4 gate).

The pulling so many probes to try to kill your scv is a big tell that something is up though.

You did a good job with your scouting scv, and this is the big reason why expanding down the ramp is safe. At 6 minutes you ran it back up to check his nat, and no nexus. Immediately throw down 2 more bunkers (when expanding below the ramp) at this point and you are sweet. It's dead easy to hold a 4 gate when you do that. Keep an scv out on the map to see when his units are coming so you can pull scvs to repair bunkers -before- they arrive. Even this push is easy to hold with it.

As it was, with an obs out you just lost so much stuff build around the top of your ramp for free and eventually even fell behind in economy due to the contain.

Sneakin the CC across to his 5th is cool, but you started building a third CC right under his obs after he saw the first one lift and float off. He'd need to be pretty dumb to not realise what is up at that point.

Then you lost two full medivacs to his army because you loaded up and started moving out -before- scanning to kill the observer with your army.


And one more reason you might have trouble with holding 4 gates and other early pushes like this is that there are some big inefficiencies with how you open. You made a fast engineering bay, it finished at 6:15. You made no turrets and didn't start +1 until 8 minutes. You could have done something else with that 125 minerals until 2 minutes later. Whether it's just blindly make one more bunker, start combat shield or something earlier, idk. But making useless buildings before the timing of a push like that is never smart.

[ToRSpookToR]

Haha yeah that was a sad game

[Poebes]

Get medivacs and counterdrop or just move your army below your ramp and crush his little gateway army.

[framtidenskrig]

General TvP:
scout around 5 min, try to spot an 1gate FE. If not 1gate FE, scout again at 6:30, if theres no expand, bunker up and scan...
I usually camp in my main till i get my medivac, then i take map control, if you can kill him, do it. Otherwise just doubledrop to scout tech or snipe forges (always prio tech structures!) If you cant see hes tech, scan main around 10 min, adapt to it. If hes going zealot archon you will need alot of ghosts! If more than 3 colossi, add 1 starport (if going standard play) and get vikings. get a fast third if hes playing greedy (double forge and teching to HT/Colossi, or you could try to kill him). PM me here if you need more help!