[Snx.FigJig]

Been testing this build out and having trouble against 14g/14p into banes. I don't know an effective way to deal with it, I've tried getting up 1 spine as soon as my hatch pops or getting a bane nest myself but neither seem to be more effective than the other. I feel I'm never safe with that build and whatever I do is a giant risk, whether it be make more units or drone up. I scout their nat and even if they expand I can't drone up since they, more often than not, just mass ling while expanding and can just kill me if I drone.

Can anyone tell me how they deal with 14/14 into banes with this build? Also just another thing, what particular timings or drone counts do you get roaches and infestor?

If it affects your advice, my league is masters.

Thanks for any help

[aLtShortizz]

2 queens 1 spine and a baneling nest asap before speed + hope for the best.

Oh and 15H 14 P 14 G is better IMO.

[crAzerk]

15H 16Pool lets you get 2 queens + 1 spine immediately once your pool is done so you can do the whole ramp block jazz. Should consult Mafia, he does hatch first like every game lol

[iM MaFia]

this build is risky if you don't have near perfect micro and even the best players still don't and can easily mess it up then lose to 1 huge baneling hit, but the key ways to defend a 14/14 speedbane is having queens blocking ramp and microing ur lings well and minimizing the effect off ur opponents banelings until ur own speed/bane is up.

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

15H 16Pool lets you get 2 queens + 1 spine immediately once your pool is done so you can do the whole ramp block jazz. Should consult Mafia, he does hatch first like every game lol

U`ll die to just speedlings if u go 15H 16 Pool and get 2 queens + 1 spine immediately.

[iM MaFia]

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

U`ll die to just speedlings if u go 15H 16 Pool and get 2 queens + 1 spine immediately.

thats not true, 2 queens blocking ramp and spine shits on speedlings depends on maps that allow it

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by xGKingMafia

thats not true, 2 queens blocking ramp and spine shits on speedlings depends on maps that allow it

Assuming he gets an OL at 15 and no more drones after that, those early lings will kill the spine before it gets up. Its just u put urself in a even harder situation den if u went 15/14. Come to think of it, i dont even think the queens will be there in time to block the first 6 lings getting onto ur ramp?

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by xGKingMafia

this build is risky if you don't have near perfect micro and even the best players still don't and can easily mess it up then lose to 1 huge baneling hit, but the key ways to defend a 14/14 speedbane is having queens blocking ramp and microing ur lings well and minimizing the effect off ur opponents banelings until ur own speed/bane is up.

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

Assuming he gets an OL at 15 and no more drones after that, those early lings will kill the spine before it gets up. Its just u put urself in a even harder situation den if u went 15/14. Come to think of it, i dont even think the queens will be there in time to block the first 6 lings getting onto ur ramp?

I say Grudge match ! BO5, map chosen by veto, cast by the best caster of SEA.

[iM MaFia]

15 hatch makes 4-6 lings against 14/14

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by Nemo

I say Grudge match ! BO5, map chosen by veto, cast by the best caster of SEA.

I could login and start searching and we`ll play a ton of games on the ladder right away haha.

But yeah @ Mafia, i was refering to Crazerk's 15 H 16 P. If u get a spine and 2 queens right away ur initial lings will be MUCH later against ur opponent's first 6. Assuming u get ur gas of cos.

[iM MaFia]

if u want, when ?

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by xGKingMafia

if u want, when ?

I was searching, u playing on NA atm?

[PiG]

Don't ruin this thread with challenging each other like children. I agree with shortizz on most maps if you don't build lings straight away you will take alot of unessecary damage from the lings. Watch Nerchio vs moonglade at IEM Cologne where glade goes 15-15-15 and builds 2 queens instantly ( i think he skipped the spine) and he basically lost so much mining to the initial 4-8 lings that he couldn't stop the landslide that followed.


The simple answer to the OP is with 15-15-15 I like to get the spine at the top of my ramp, wall with two queens. Stop him morphing banes closeby by sharking with slowlings.

His banes won't finish morphing until ling speed kicks in and as long as you pulled 2 drones off gas and built pure lings after 17 drones then you will vastly outnumber your opponent and can counterattack which with good control will win a huge number of your games.

The key is to make sure you put all your money into an overwhelming number of lings (often free win vs speedling expo due to larvae advantage) and don't waste money on bane nest. Also don't try to save your hatch just go kill their main.

This all being said, I think 15-15-15 is not a good build unless its a large map where your opponent may not be able to get a scout up your ramp where the surprise of the early ling speed can be used to great effect.

Quick Comments

	lolwut:	good post :)
	MooZfY:

[TAEdgE]

PiG i challenge you to a deathmatch child.

(Also his post is good)

[Snx.FigJig]

Thanks for all the replies! Ill def try all your suggestions.

After I made this post i just trained zvz for hours with a friend and we found a roach build that seems to work well. It goes 15h 15p 18g getting a rw as soon as pool finishes and skipping speed to get 3-5 roaches. From what we tested the roaches were out in time to stop 14/14 banes. Any of you used this build before?

[mGGDaedalus]

Originally Posted by nRvPickleWeasel

Thanks for all the replies! Ill def try all your suggestions.

After I made this post i just trained zvz for hours with a friend and we found a roach build that seems to work well. It goes 15h 15p 18g getting a rw as soon as pool finishes and skipping speed to get 3-5 roaches. From what we tested the roaches were out in time to stop 14/14 banes. Any of you used this build before?

I'm only diamond but if I saw you rushing straight to roach tech off a hatch first I'd just build a butt tonne of speedlings off 2 base and kill you

[Snx.FigJig]

That can kill me if not scouted, but this build is fairly versatile. If you hatch first and then mass ling i skip roaches and go standard, getting speed first and no roaches. If you 14/14 speedling expand then 2 base ling i will have 3-5 roaches and get speed myself then mass lings too, and since my hatch is earlier ill just have a better econ and more stuff by the time you get to me, but this is all very reliant on me scouting well.

[Reere]

The RW Pickle is referring to is only planted immediately if a no expo is scouted.

[mGGDaedalus]

Originally Posted by nRvPickleWeasel

That can kill me if not scouted, but this build is fairly versatile. If you hatch first and then mass ling i skip roaches and go standard, getting speed first and no roaches. If you 14/14 speedling expand then 2 base ling i will have 3-5 roaches and get speed myself then mass lings too, and since my hatch is earlier ill just have a better econ and more stuff by the time you get to me, but this is all very reliant on me scouting well.

Yeah you have to know the ling flood is coming, otherwise with just roaches even blocking the ramp will not save you (kill your natural then break down your wall off while droning and getting roach warren at home). When I see people trying to be greedy like that I use queen at my natural to pick off overlords while pooling lings in a hidden corner of my base

[Snx.FigJig]

Yup, is something i do have to scout for and if caught off guard i can just lose. Is why i need to scout well with it, checking your nat and its drone count and such. I like this build though, i feel safe with it if i do it properly.