[NDG.Stitch]

Hey guys,

Recently I've really got destroyed hard trying to play mech in TvT. It is just not working. MMM breaks through my siege lines and it just doesn't work. I've had games where I won with Bio and games where I've lost. So my question to you all is, do you guys have playstyles that basically don't include tanks but can counter them? Because it has been a really annoying experience for me to keep on fighting it out till 25 mins with siege lines against siege lines.

Thanks!

[MooZfY]

I use bio if they go for mech, it's very fun lol =P

[iMSystem]

When you play bio against mech you have to ALWAYS be one step ahead your opponent. You need to have map control, always keep a mental note
to where he is stationed and drop elsewhere. Keep him busy with drops while you slowly push him back and always out expand him.

Keep on the upgrades and macro and when he moves out unseiged you pounce. Clean it up and win.

The problem with mech is that it is hard to re-build all the units after a loss, where as bio has the upper hand with
reinforcements as bio builds quicker.

If your forced into fighting into a siege line (He has a defensive position around you and you can't budge it via drops and such)
Make sure you split your bio while you break the line so you minimize the splash damage and trade effectively

[ROOT`iaguz]

No.

10characters

[ToRPandarine]

System is right. I went for the usual Marine-Tank-Viking (MTV as I like to call it) and the guy just dropped the out of me. Siege up and get dropped, unsiege and get killed.

[TABottles]

Originally Posted by ThePandarine

System is right. I went for the usual Marine-Tank-Viking (MTV as I like to call it) and the guy just dropped the out of me. Siege up and get dropped, unsiege and get killed.

hahaha he dropped the out of you! that's classic

[HuT]

You can go bio all you want, you won't beat a (read) good Mech player, they'll start getting close to maxed and slow push you, with nothing you can do to stop it.

[NDG.Stitch]

Originally Posted by SQLTt.HuT

You can go bio all you want, you won't beat a (read) good Mech player, they'll start getting close to maxed and slow push you, with nothing you can do to stop it.

Yea that's exactly what I'm starting to realize when I face up some GMs or High Masters on Ladder. If I try going bio, they just get 5 tanks and a bunch of marines and just slowpush my natural and it gets really hard to counter that... :/

What I"m wondering is, I've met so many people that do MMM + Tanks without any vikings to beat mech. Its pretty good imo because the reinforcements come in fast. But is that viable if your opponent goes air? Because I think the wekaness in that is that theres not much AA in that build.

[HuT]

Originally Posted by StitchSPR

What I"m wondering is, I've met so many people that do MMM + Tanks without any vikings to beat mech. Its pretty good imo because the reinforcements come in fast. But is that viable if your opponent goes air? Because I think the wekaness in that is that theres not much AA in that build.

Comes down to upgrades. If you're skimping on bio upgrades and they have BC's or something at the same level as you, you're gonna lose. The thing about Battlecruiser tech, is that theres a BIG window where they stop tank production and don't try and push as hard. If you recognise this, and can hit a max while they're saving supply for BC tech, you can usually break them in this period. But if you miss your timing, you will lose.

[MazEi]

Honestly you can pull of MMM or Air play(iEchoic) if you play it right. With both of them you have to abuse the mobility you have and kill a Mech-ing player before he gets maxed with a good composition, or use cloak banshees to kill off tanks for a Marine-Tanking player.

Basically any style can work against the other, if you use it right. For example moving out with 80 food while Mech-ing is a bad idea, and you WILL lose if you do that, but that does not make Mech a bad style, just that you played it wrong. So with styles with less/no tanks, you just have to do the same, know how to play it right.

[FaDeBadger]

If the mech player turtles, expands slowly, and waits til maxed before pushing out Bio won't cut it. There is a reason Artosis says that Mech is simply better.

[AvPoker]

Be a better player.
Go mech.

[Bloodmyst]

I like both bio and mech styles. However, I think mech is without a doubt superior to bio. Two things I find with these styles are;

1. When going bio, there is nothing worse once the mech player gets a strong contain on you. You can't drop because vikings just take those out.

2. On the flip side, there is nothing worse then getting your tanks caught out unsieged. I learned the hard way to unsiege smaller amounts of tanks at a time and siege up again.

Ohhhh all those time where I nearly smashed my keyboard coz my tanks got caught out unsieged......

However, I still prefer mech.

[PraiseB]

I really liked Boxers style of a marauder heavy army backed up by vikings and medivacs. Use the vikings to clear a path to the tanks then drop upgraded marauders onto the tanks then transition into BC's from his Code A set on Monday.
It was one of the best answers I've seen to pure mech before.

[aLtMrFool]

I'm just a fool, mrfool, I'm gonna get my name changed eventually! But just not yet..

But here's my take about playing TvT without tanks.

Firsrt of all, tanks are what most of us call zone-control units.

It deals massive damage with insane splash but has a large cooldown.
The more siege tanks you have, the stronger the zone control is because enemies do take time to reach your tanks whilst your clearing rate of enemies become faster.

Thus, there is a timing window, when the number of tanks remain low, where marines with shield + stim can garner enough dps (while splitted and micro-ed to minimise tank damage) to outright burst down a tank line.

But this timing window only exist in the early stages of the game or tethering near mid-game depending on build orders.

If you have been following the korean ladder, reaper opening into mass marines with medivacs into marine tank medivac has been a very popular opening simply because they know how to exploit that timing window where:

1: marine tank ( tank low in numbers and thus gunned down very quickly by marines and due to heavy teching into tanks, have lack of supporting marines to beat mass marines)
2: hellion tank ( or mech ) when they still do not have enough hellion and tanks to massively murder marines - notice how hellions and tanks have high cooldown thus allowing each marine to pull off roughly 10 hits ( while stimmed) while each hellion and each tank can only shoot up to twice. * assumption of roughly 5 seconds battle.

Unless you are very accustomed to such timings, I suggest not trying to do such an opening.

Once these timings are over, however, playing TvT without tanks become way harder.

You'll have to , as said above, be one step ahead in doing things like xpanding and having map control!

What I'm trying to say is that, tanks are, in my humble opinion, mid game units. And its hard running away from them (esp on some maps where mech just pwns bio / bionic). Early games there are pushes including

1: marine hellion
2: hellion reapers
3: marine hellion medivac
4: marine hellion banshee

And yada yada the list is not exshaustive.

Late game - there are pure air transitions when you get enough income but I just don't see playing TvT without tanks on certain maps. Bio vs mech are definitely possible on some maps.

Well, just my 2cents and I don't think I've presented it very well:s

MrFool.439,
Signing off!

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Very good !

[ROOT`iaguz]

You're all reading a bit too much into this.

Tanks are the most cost efficient (mineral wise especially) destroyer of Terran units in the Terran arsenal. There's all this shite about mobility and zone control and unit counters but it really does boil down to this:

Tanks kill dudes faster then anything else. So we build tanks.

[felixleewaiyeow]

but i like bio! can bio counter tank? maybe drops? like all over the place.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by felixleewaiyeow

but i like bio! can bio counter tank? maybe drops? like all over the place.

Bio can kill small numbers of tanks alright. But there comes a point where the tank count just can't be touched by bio. If the tank player just turtles against bio, then once they hit a high tank count their army just won't die to yours.

So unless you want to rely on your opponents making mistakes and trying to get aggressive with a low tank count, then bio shouldn't beat a tank based army.

MMA played a really cool aggressive bio style that transitioned into evening up the tank count of his opponent in the mid-game in the last GSL final against MVP, if you want to go for some amount of mostly bio play in TvT it's probably a good way to do it.

[HuT]

Bio is only a viable opener TvT, if you're not getting 2 fac in the mid-game, you're gonna die.

[SLCN.StoicWilly]

well u can try using nukes to make the tanks unsiege and run in and own everything.