[Mox]

First things first, about me. I'm from Australia, though I have spent a lot of my time playing on the NA servers, because thats where a lot of my RL friends play. I'm currently a gold league Terran on there pushing for platinum. However, I have only recently started playing Terran after switching from Zerg at the end of last season.

So I have just decided to start playing on the SEA realms more frequently (for the first time in over a season) and I am struggling with TvP mid to late game. I just cant seem to beat a Protoss ball. Generally i go Bio vs. Protoss, and find it does ok. However, their ball just kills me. I find that I am getting the right units (Vikings when i see Collo, ghosts for archons etc.) but I just still lose.

I also find that I can effectively harass with drops etc. and they always seem to take a base lead. They either have stalkers waiting for me or have cannons there.

Any help would be much appreciated!

[Daboo]

^^ post a replay! It will be much easier thataway! You seem to know the way to deal with the situation, most people do, but the way to get there is what matters.

[Mox]

Ok, I uploaded a recent game I played on the NA Ladder. Any feedback is appreciated! I don't think I gg'ed in this game cause i was so frustrated. I'm not normally bm...i promise

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=552

[x5_Potter]

How do you open?

[Mox]

Originally Posted by VB_Potthead

How do you open?

Depends on what I see with my scout. Usually 1 rax into FE or sometimes 2 rax into expo.

[ETL.ViTaL]

adapting a 3 rax into ur build options would be great because if your having trouble in the late game a very simple solution to that is to be aggresive in the eraly game and win before protoss has a chance to get there colosus and high templar. (But that is kind of avoiding the issue :P)

[sRFullstop]

Originally Posted by ViTaL

adapting a 3 rax into ur build options would be great because if your having trouble in the late game a very simple solution to that is to be aggresive in the eraly game and win before protoss has a chance to get there colosus and high templar. (But that is kind of avoiding the issue :P)

That's not really helping the player improve though... If he does this he will never be able to win if the game drags on to the late game.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Fullstop

That's not really helping the player improve though... If he does this he will never be able to win if the game drags on to the late game.

It's not a bad way to get his confidence back though. Do that for a few games and then take another go at learning the late game.

[Mox]

Originally Posted by ViTaL

adapting a 3 rax into ur build options would be great because if your having trouble in the late game a very simple solution to that is to be aggresive in the eraly game and win before protoss has a chance to get there colosus and high templar. (But that is kind of avoiding the issue :P)

I have 3 raxed in the past. Its pretty straight forward, and I do it occasionally. I'm trying to improve at the late game though as others have mentioned. It might be worth saying that I have had success in the past couple of days against Protoss but only when I can do significant harass and never let their economy get to the point when they have a 200/200 death ball. I'm also trying to improve with my ghost micro and use of emps.

[Daboo]

Hey just watched your replay, did you say that you played zerg? It was quite evident from your style of play. I'm a toss, so I'll try to answer things from that perspective.

Terran needs to be more proactive,you tried like one drop, that was spotted. But did you notice what the toss did when you dropped? He moved his entire army to defend. Thats when a toss is vulnerable. When the toss forces are split, toss becomes a lot weaker, and thats your cue to push/poke the front, you could've easily killed a lot of probes or possibly even sniped the nexus at the expo when he was away, while putting up your own. Individual drops are okay for toss, multiple drops are the tough part.

Apart from that, floating 1k minerals at the 10 minute mark. and did you really need the engineering bay up so fast? Postponing concussive shells for so long isnt that good either. The last engagement wasnt the best either, most of the units died without even shooting(seems like they were on move command), and whats more, the stim came after half your arm was dead, and the other half was near death, (I think there were ghosts in your army, but you didnt emp? not sure if I'm right about this). And think you could've got more production facilities instead of so many command centres, to remax.

So lots of stuff to work on there, and remember do more hurting with your army!

[MCKL]

Basically I'm not afraid to go 200/200 with protoss, if u can deny their third or harass properly u wouldn't have any problem, it's always macro, I do advice 1 rax expand everything game , u may find it hard to hold at first but soon u will know what else Protoss can come up with ,



There's two way by the time they got their cool u have ur Viking , given 10 min the fastest their first cool pops there's not range upgrade,

Another its by air. Also depending on maps but IMO I think 1 rax fe is the best against Protoss


Two rax will punish greedy player or bad players


Still 1 rax fe u get so many marine u can do a pressure push and can deal with vr or dt with turret ,


It's all about Eco in this game all macro (: unless u dot want a Marco game and go one base all in but u won't improve so don't be afraid to fight them 200/200 as long u have more bases than him and harass in any ways u can

[MCKL]

Basically I'm not afraid to go 200/200 with protoss, if u can deny their third or harass properly u wouldn't have any problem, it's always macro, I do advice 1 rax expand everything game , u may find it hard to hold at first but soon u will know what else Protoss can come up with ,



There's two way by the time they got their colo u have ur Viking , given 10 min the fastest their first colo pops there's not range upgrade,

Another its by air. Also depending on maps but IMO I think 1 rax fe is the best against Protoss


Two rax will only punish greedy player or bad players, doesn't work against top Protoss ( most of the time)


Still 1 rax fe u get so many marine u can do a pressure push and can deal with vr or dt with turret ,


It's all about Eco in this game all macro (: unless u dot want a Marco game and go one base all in but u won't improve so don't be afraid to fight them 200/200 as long u have more bases than him and harass in any ways u can

[MCKL]

Sorry for double post , btw do add in bunkers please if not u won't hold any push at all

[stalking you]

i like to go Hellions first for map control and they are sometimes really good for slipping into a unaware toss's base and geting of some money shots on probes, and i like how it opens up tech paths and the ability to expand, so i defiantly would suggest that

[Mox]

Thanks for all the help guys! Will definitely work on it!

[Goldie]

in a late game a average silver/gold would add either high templars or colo so u have to scout a lot and put down a few scans around his base. If the toss is going heavy stalker sentry colo, then add a few vikings 8-12 depending on the amount of colos. If the toss is making high templars then get ghosts with emp. But if u let them get a forth base or more and they have both these units, u have to get both vikings and ghosts and u have a lot of micro to do.

[Volition]

Hey Mox. I know exactly how you feel. sc2gears told me the other day that in the last few months, I have never beaten a protoss when the game went past 25-28 mins. of course, I win plenty before this time, but once it hits that point where he gets the deathball together, nothing i seem to do can break it.

tbh, I have been doing what a lot of these guys have suggested, doing like 2 rax w/ 1 marine then reactor tech lab, and just pushing if i see an expo or a second gas. And while that is winning me games, it really isnt helping me, at all. It is just taking advantage of an early game weakness to marin marauder, and probably doing me harm in the long run.

So I am clear, is the advice from the more experienced players to just 1rax fe gasless in all positions on all maps until we start winning late game?

Quick query on TvP for the better players - I lost to a toss this morning (after watching jjakji vs puzzle VOD i have been trying contains with siege tanks and proxy rax for scouting - which got me slaughtered... oops), he said afterwards "if a toss goes nexus first, you have to all in. if you dont, he will get too far ahead off two bases". Do you think this is accurate advice??

Volition

[nirvAnA]

you need very good ghost control and dropships to clear bases / expansions instead of fighting headon, thats what i find the most difficult

[|Erasmus|]

You don't necessarily have to drop... If you can just force regular engagements, with semi-decent control, Terran usually does very well in medium-sized engagements. If you can force the toss to have to replace units constantly instead of teching hard, you can at the very least force them to spread out and have to expand more, giving you more options for bases to drop.

And if they're preparing for drops with stalkers in position... it means you're being scouted and he's warping in a round of units to deal with it, or you're not being active on the map with your units and he feels safe enough about you attacking his main army he can afford to waste a bunch of stalkers sitting around just due to the drop potential.

[Goldie]

lots of emps, since radius was nerfed. But try and get the sentries and low shield units like stalkers.