[zergslut]

Hi , Im a bronze player who is very poor in late game. I would like to ask for some precious advice for late game ZvsP. Normally I would tech up to burrowed roaches and mutas, and a few bases.
However, the toss would have observers or cannons to stop my attacks.Would appreciate some advice to counter mass stalkers or void rays, or ways to stop observers for zerg. Thanks

[Next_rim]

Post a replay, the problem is most likely in your scouting and mechanics, not army comp.

I'm a diamond protoss, but I consider myself good at reading PvZ, so I might be able to help.

Normally I would tech up to burrowed roaches and mutas, and a few bases.

Although there is nothing wrong with either roaches or mutas, zerg strength lies in infestors. They are very versatile, and are good for any situation, be it harass, offense or defense. Any zerg ball without infestors is pretty inferior. Any late game zerg combo should have some.

Also, ultimate anti-protoss ball is something along the lines of infestor + broodlords + hydra. This is best dps zerg can put together, and is hardly stoppable by ground protoss. Normally, zerg would open with lings or roaches, then add infestors and corruptors. This is enough to survive most protoss combos, which allows to grab more gas and get broodlords and hydra for dps.

some advice to counter mass stalkers or void rays, or ways to stop observers for zerg.

1) Stalkers. Fungal+lings>>>>mass stalkers. But keep in mind that stalkers can be different - 1-base 3-gate stalkers, 1-base 4-gate, 2-base 6 gate, 2-base 8-gate+2, etc.

Early stalkers are countered by timely spines, along with stopping drone production and pumping lings or roaches, either works in good numbers. The art of zerg here is pro scouting and build reading, then controlling greed and knowing when to stop drone production. Most zerg either die because of greed (not enough army), or because of panic (too much army). Signs of 1-base blink stalkers - early 2nd gas, low sentry count, no expansion. Don't rush to throw down spines though, because it can also mean DT, 4-gate or 1-base stargate. If you get an OL in sometimes at min 6, you should get an idea of what's up, and be able to react accordingly.

2) Late stalkers come about the time you get either infestors with fungal (preferable), or good numbers of hydra. Either works for repelling attacks. Signs of 2-base blink push - spinning forge, late gas at natural, low sentry count. OL or OS scout at 7-8:30 will usually reveal all tech. Also, keep lings at Xel'naga and at protoss natural, you will 100% see a push coming. Since protoss needs to secure a proxy pylon before pushing, you will have time to put up defenses.

3) Void rays in large numbers crumble to fungal and hydra. If voidrays are accompanied by archons, HT and zealots, you probably didn't macro correctly, and are behind on gas. Early voidrays are easy to scout, and you should have a evo chamber up early anyway. add 1x spore at each mineral line, and add 2x queens, pull all OL's back to avoid sniping, and you are all set, voidrays will do 0 damage.

As for muta, it is normally used to keep protoss in base, delay 3rd, while expanding behind it. Mutas in straight 200vs200 brawl are pretty weak. They are not your main dps, lings and fungal is. HT (and archons) shit on large muta balls, and 4 phoenixes with some stalker cover can own 10-12 muta. Remember - if you go muta timing, you have to either do enough econ damage, or expand heavy behind it, or take by surprise and win right there. Don't expect muta to win you a late game, they are not made for it.

Hope it helps. And, general advise - work on your macro and mechanics, it's more important at your level than anything else.

add: I forgot to address the observer issue. Observer = robo tech = colossi (or immortals). Which means, you need corruptors, lings and infestors. HT, archons or stargate tech is unlikely at this stage. Also, keep an eye out for blur, ususally you can easily spot observer movement, and use OS to track it down and kill.

[Apth]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

Post a replay, the problem is most likely in your scouting and mechanics, not army comp.

Nailed it. Post a replay and we'll get down to business.

[zergslut]

Would try to figure it out how to get the replay posted. :P

[zergslut]

Hi guys, finally got the replay up.
Here it is ZvsP
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14566
Cheers

[Next_rim]

Watched replay, there is a gazillion of things you need to work on. Start by not having 11 workers for 25 minutes. You should have around 22 per base.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Drone, drone, drone THEN army, army, army

[HowAreYa]

that game was awesome.

I would make more drones. generally you can make 20 or so drones off one base before he will attack you. (unless he tries to cannon rush or something in your base which you scouted) With more drones you can have more minerals to spend of units.

When he gets his second base he has like 28 probes vs you 12. Over twice the income. So way more units.

I got out of bronze by making like 20 drones then just making units and attacking.

[Daboo]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

Watched replay, there is a gazillion of things you need to work on. Start by not having 11 workers for 25 minutes. You should have around 22 per base.

I read your first post...and then read this..I loled so hard.

To OP: This looks like your first time playing an rts. There are some basic ideas used in rts games:The really basic ones are:
1)Always Build workers
2)Spend your money.

Why workers? Workers=money, and money= buying more army units to kill your opponent. You might want to focus just building drones first.

Once you start doing that you'll notice that you have a lot of money. Spend, it, take another hatchery, make army units. Balancing the army units with drones is a fundamental part of zerg, and is tough,because you only have a certain number of larvae. You might want to consider another race, for learning the basics, like terran.

[creamwolf1]

Also remember to just throw away lings and useless units to clear supply. Try to kill as many workers int the process however

[Snx.Mufasa]

As most people have mentioned, you just didn't have enough drones.

On each hatchery you should have 16 drones mining and 3 drones on each gas. This doesn't mean you have to only make drones until you get that number. If you don't feel comfortable then make some other units.


I got in a habit of thinking when I first started playing, my money is getting high, so I don't need any more workers. Which isn't true at all, just because you're money is getting high doesn't mean you have way too many workers. It's just that you don't have the ability to spend it quick enough.

You have plenty of things you could work on, as does any player... but I would suggest working on drone production throughout the whole game. Once you start getting 22 or so drones at each hatchery you'll find that you'll be able to play a lot better.

Also... with that stalker/void rays... get hydra. That unit destroys protoss air and gateway units. If you see him going heavy phoenix, stop producing muta as well.

edit. I'm not sure why you did this, but how come you took your 3rd as your 2nd and your 4th as your 3rd? Idealy you want to expand to the closet expansion to your main base ^__^

[ScubaBear]

Practice one part of the game at a time. Do not practice other advanced stuff just yet. I also agree with what they say. drones drones drones.

[zergslut]

Here's another replay ZvsP. I have tried to incoporate advise into the game. However, i still have problems dealing with masss stalkers.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15116
Commnets appreicated. Cheers

[EveMassacrisM]

Hmm try this,

14pool
14gas
Expand at around 20-21 suply

- Now make 2 pairs of Zerglings when pool is finished. Get them to the watch towers and 1 onto Toss' ramp. If he tries to pressure you make a necessary number of lings to fend it off. Don't go overboard.
- Now make drones and only dronessssssssssssss. You will feel naked but keep making drones till around 5:45 min. Don't forget to get ling speed.
- Use one of the lings to poke ramp/scout his nat. If there's no expansion, build units. Spam lings and get down a roach warren and an evo chamber. Get a few Spine crawlers too.< Most of the time in lower league there wouldn't be an expo though>
- If you see 4gate coming which is 90% of the time in lower leagues. Get as many lings out as you can and bug his army and snipe the probe if possible. Get roaches when warren is finished. Try your best not to get supply blocked because you will.
- If nothing comes out of his base by 6:30. Get a Spore crawler at your entrance and 1 in main, cuz Protoss faggotry is coming. Could only be either 1base Void Rays or DTs. Get a 3rd Queen if you want to be extra safe.

If you follow the above correctly you should be solid till at least Diamond with your ZvP. Your larvae inject and supply management will be what make the differences the most, so work on that.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Excellent advice from an excellent player

[sRFullstop]

I think one problem with giving advice to bronze is that we confuse them too much? When I was bronze I had no idea what the concepts were. It's very hard to get the balance between workers and army, especially when playing zerg, because what you make with one round of injects will decide whether you win or lose the game.

To the OP: I suggest you watch many videos of casters playing. They don't have to be that good, just decent, and because they narrate their games, slowly you will get an idea of what is going on. That is how I improved when I first started. Of course you won't understand what they are saying but by watching many casters on YouTube, you will learn fast.

[PiG]

Watch Day9 on youtube. Watch all of his noobie tuesday episodes. Best advice I can give.

Quick Comments

	TABjornbrandr:
	Zepph:	or just watch pig!!

[Delraich]

Originally Posted by PiG

Watch Day9 on youtube. Watch all of his noobie tuesday episodes. Best advice I can give.

There is no shortage of great active zerg streams right here on SEA:
PiG (http://www.justin.tv/ttpig), Mafia (http://www.twitch.tv/xeriamafia), Dox (http://www.twitch.tv/dox_au), Moonglade (http://www.twitch.tv/moongladeau).

I would also recommend watching the other race streams too because then you can see what they are planning against you, what they don't like happening to them, and what they sometimes lose to. My favorites at the moment are: Yang - Protoss (http://www.justin.tv/markr155), Pinder - Protoss (http://www.twitch.tv/xghpinder), Soulman - Protoss (http://www.twitch.tv/soulman147), Terran - Iaguz (http://www.twitch.tv/xgkingiaguz), Pokerface - Random (http://www.justin.tv/anooburak).

There are tons more streams to watch and learn from. I personally prefer the ones who talking during their streams and explain what they are doing. I also like the ones with less viewers because then you can ask questions!

Quick Comments

PiG:

What a legend !

[ToRsupapower]

drones are good units PiG's stream is awesome as well, as i just found out as of 2 days ago and day9 is also very good, pretty much do what everyone else says