[PapaBigBelly]

I have problems with the 6 gate and have always lost to it, 5 gate pressure is fine but the 6 gate with +1 or Blink has really shattered me as a Zerg

Protoss normally starts with FFE or 3gate expo then into a 6 gate. ( more commonly FFE )

What i do is that i try to get a 3rd Asap and drone till 4x supply before i get 5 gas geysers and tech to roach burrow and +1+1, however this has not been working for me, i know i cant stay on just 2 bases because of the lack of production ( I honestly think 2 base toss produces units faster than 3 base zerg without macro hatch )

So how would you other zergs out there hold a 6 gate? Please help me with this, all opinions are welcome (except from deL since all he says is negativity and will probably delete this post when he sees it )

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	lol deL can't delete posts only mods can!
	TAavanar:	del just says what everyone is thinking and is usually right

[Next_rim]

As a protoss, who used to play forge-fe-into gateways into robo, may I suggest that a buildorder counter would be:

1) Fast infestors Dimaga and Destiny style. Fungal + lings roflroll 6-gate pushes.
2) 2-base muta Moon-style. Gives you stupid map control and keeps half of toss army in base forever. Or makes him invest into cannons, which is better for you than army units.

But then again, you can win with 100% roach ball, just have to micro like a god.

[DemisodaSPR]

5 geysers at 4x supply is WAY too early for all non-cheese compositions (i.e. you could economic cheese him and do 5 gas mutas at this drone count, but I'm taking solid style). You're not making enough drones while still on minerals if this is your gas timing. You don't actually need burrow to hold the uber fast 6 gate, so if you're trying to get it before the 8:35 6 sentry 4 stalker or 7:55 5 zealot few stalker and you're sacrificing this much mineral economy for lair rush then this iis why you're dying.

Make less geysers and more drones, and tech very slowly while ensuring you equalise with his army. With 4x drones and 5 gases you will get burrow, you will get +1+1, but you will just die because he will out produce you.

[Satu]

Too many geysers by the looks of it, like Demisoda said. If you actually manage to structure your economy correctly while doing this, it means you've been overdroning, which is probably why the 6gate kills you.

Just remember to prepare for possible pushes at 8-9 min, which means begin to prepare around 7-7:30 mark. Its good to go over your build a few times in YABOT and check how well you can prepare for a 6gate, knowing the timings.

Personally, I used MorroW's ling/bane for AGES, and had about a 50% winrate vs 6gates. I just couldn't hold them off, no matter how well I tried to time my preparation. Since I've added in roaches, I havent yet lost to a 6gate, finding upgraded roaches a LOT easier to use.

[ToRDjvillian]

Don't let them get to 6 gates? If i see a ffe I like to throw down nydus and get around that wall.

[Aean(:]

Originally Posted by Djvillian

Don't let them get to 6 gates? If i see a ffe I like to throw down nydus and get around that wall.

and all they need to do is send 4 probes to atk it and your fucked.

[Next_rim]

Don't let them get to 6 gates? If i see a ffe I like to throw down nydus and get around that wall.

Nydus is a gamble, not a very solid way to do things.

When P goes forge fe, zerg can basically only do 4 things - nydus, drops, fast 3rd, or 2 base all-in. Since forge FE is designed to hold all-ins and then take advantage of greedy zerg fast 3rds, it's absolutely imperative to be able to fight drops and nydus as P.

While P can't really prevent a drop and has to battle it on the ground, nydus works only if Z is sneaky and can actually put it up. Most protoss will be ready for it with pylons on edge and emergency 3 stalkers or phoenix on patrol.

But yeah, i still get killed by nydus on shakuras every now and then. Main base is so big, probes take forever to get to the building nydus.

[AvPoker]

Okay here's a simple guide to holding off 6 gate and other special tactics.

1. Assuming he is forge FE, get very fast third and going for lots of drones with minimal gas until you have good saturation.
2. Then somewhere along the line, you should start taking gas off all four geysers.
3. Remember, drone drone drone. He can't attack you for a while when expanding.
4. When you get lair, get overlord speed or overseer to scout what hes going for. Also get a hydra den and maybe roach warren as well.
5. When you scout 6 gate, you should be getting +1 range attack and hydra range as as soon as possible.
6. The protoss should be moving out now or soon, so nows the time to be making a crap ton of hydras and speedlings.
7. If you droned enough, and engage correctly with good creep spread and concave, victory should be easy.

You can also go for mass burrowed roaches as well, but it can be defeated with good force field micro.

If you still lose, you should check in your replays where you could have gotten more drones and delaying that gas and lair at the right time before any push comes out.

[Fourby]

When I do this strat, the things that i notice stop it most of the time, if not all the time is infestor ling/bling

IF you want to be super gay you could go infestor/ling with b/ling drops

so basically the answer is in your signature "INFESTORS!, the answer to everything" lol.

[PiG]

Here is a rep of me facing light doing an FE into 6gate +1 atk timing: http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=348

I actually think if he went slightly faster straight into my 3rd he would have won this game so I was lucky. So anyway a FE into 6gate can hit anywhere between 8-11 minutes (or sometimes i believe a 4/5 gate following FE can be as fast as 7:30).

I strongly believe you should mimic my play from this game except you need more scouting information. I was lazy this game as I hadn't slept all night so I played blind. It's tricky on shakuras because you need to bring an overlord over to keep an eye on both his 3rd and 4th gases (not taking these means it is definitely a 6gate +1 at latest, 9:30ish). More importantly though is watching the cyber core CONSTANTLY and counting the amount of CB (Chronoboost) used on it.

Some GENERAL rules:

1) If 4+ chronoboosts are used you shouldn't go past 3 gas and about 45-48 drones. In this case Light used 4 but waited for a few rounds of units and hit at 9:30 but he could have hit with 4 zealots 4 stalker much faster and this can clean your 3rd of any drones + queen aswell as get inbetween your rally points which severely hampers your ability to use roaches effectively.

2) If the 3rd and 4th gases are taken you usually need a 4th gas, 52 drones and roach speed. MINIMUM. Overseer to check for robo is a good idea.

3) Seemingly endless CB used on the forge will often mean a +2 atk timing. Often paired with blinkstalkers and possibly an observer.

Note: With this attack the protoss is going to fully saturate 2 bases on 50ish probes, but well before this he will shark around the middle of the map trying to force you to stop droning and stop teching and sit on pure 0/0 or 1/0 roaches as you panick thinking he will attack. The attack actually can hit as late as 16:00 where your roaches actually get massacred fighting mass blinkstalkers kiting them the whole way.

Note: You NEED infestor/hydra or SOMETHING besides roaches to fight this.

4) Don't overreact if they rally a few zealots straight from the gateway. 4 zerglings for each zealot is enough if you can get a surround on creep/


RE: pokerface guide. This is a good option for shutting down later pushes. Unfortunately this tech path means the fast 7.30-9:30 pushes will usually catch you with your pants down and you will simply die.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[aztecx]

I like quick +1/1 normally so it helps with the protoss +1. If I see forge upgrading +1 I just skip roach and go for ling/hydra with some spines to help. I don't know if that's what I should be doing but its worked against some master level opponents before.

[TheTinyOne]

Mass hydra just like what Idra did. Or Roach + hydra. If your hydra manage to push the blink stalkers back, reinforced with more hydra or some zergling would damage his gateway which is blocking his expansion,thus slowing down is warps.

Also you can try (unproven) 60+zergling vs 22stalker ~

Quick Comments

asdfSchnitzel:

[TAavanar]

i heard roaches are good

[cure]

Exactly what PiG said, although i prefer massing roaches with burrow to stop it :P

[TAVoices]

I find the most effective method is to micro ur fingers over the G button and depress this key twice. Works well for me.

[lxuzyl]

Wow, im actually having some troubles with this build. Thank you PiG for these awesome tips.

[Rolex]

Against 6 gate, you can go:

hydra/ling - you may already have a roach warren but thats fine. i basically keep producing hydras and only switch to roaches if i scout a robotics facility.

infestor/ling - more defensive play with fungal. ill only research neural parasite if i scout a robotics facility.