[CCJester]

G'day to all.
Thought id throw out a little issue ive been having and some ways i have come up with to maybe combat it but really looking for some input.

The Issue
In PvZ, seemingly since the patch, the infestor has been a much more predominant unit in PvZ. While using a relatively standard PvZ build, being Collosus, Stalker, sentry, with a few zealots for good measure i have been having a massive problem with dealing with Neural Parasite, in a heavy roach build, stealing my colossus and melting my ground force.

Some Initial Assumptions
1. The engagement does not occur in a tight choke.
2. Supply counts are either both maxed or roughly even
3. Both sentries and Infestors have energy
4. I dont want to make overhauling changes to my build in order to overcome this issue

First Attempts to Overcome
- I tried using blink stalkers to blink in and kill off the infestors and while this worked the same problem occured in that i lost a large portion of my ground force and eventually got rolled.
- I tried to get high templar for feedback but the sheer range of neural parasite made this almost impossible to get off before neural happened.

Current thoughts
I have currently been experimenting with adding a few phoenix to my mix when i see infestor tech in order to lift them during and before the engagement and it has been working relatively well but a well placed fungal or if there are a number of hydra's i seem to struggle.

Conclusion
While phoenix seem to be helping (sort of) the game feels to much of a dice roll on whether he hits that crucial fungal or not.

Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas?

Quick Comments

	holyforker:	yes, toss is so hard to play now :(
	Saturn:	Thanks for this

[PiG]

HT all the way. Same range as fungal with faster cast speed just make sure your HT are on a separate hotkey and get used to sending lone HT out front to zap them! It's tricky so practice with a ffriend till you get good at it

[Silver Pharaoh]

Maybe have an obs to scout where the infestors out. When engaging, send your army first followed by HTs so that HTs don't suicide themselves to the roaches.

[CCJester]

Thanks guys, but how do you combat the range of neural parasite? I mean HT are great for picking off ones that venture too far forward, but i cant seem to get them close enough without taking fire from the roaches.

[PiG]

Hmm pulling back your collossus a little using. all 9 range will mean infestors need to reach the front line of battle where they are vulnerable. with ff they can't reach your collossus without dieing. unless u have 50 roaches right on top of your army in which case neural is the least of your troubles.

[PiG]

neural range is 9

[ToRXypha]

What pig said, out range the parasite forcing the infestors to the front then snipe em

[CCJester]

sounds so simple but its something i havnt been doing so thanks very much...
what do you think of phoenix play?

[PiG]

pheonix r hard to use they are more for countering mutas and early game timings then anything else.

[Next_rim]

Use colossus range to draw them closer, then either feedback or focus fire.

[holyforker]

i've been trying to practice blink stalker micro to kill infestors now, not just blindly blink all of course, but just blink like 4 to the side and snipe infestors. it's more micro intensive but if you can pull it off it works wonders!

[Next_rim]

On a side note, I play carriers and shit on infestors

[maximusPrime]

I've had some issues with this too but I think the best solution is good FF's. If you cut the roaches in half with your sentries the infestors should only have range to neural your stalkers...which is pointless. Step back your collosi so they only attack the front pack of roaches that cant move away because of the FF's. The only way they are able to get their infestors close enough is to have them at the front of their army and if they are their just focus fire down the infestors.

Blink stalkers are unreliable for neutralising neural parasite because if they throw down some fungals on your stalkers they aren't able to blink forward. Sentries and FF's are always a must have against zerg IMO. Facing the mass amount off units that zerg players have is just ridiculous you need to pick where you want to face their army correctly and then cut that army in half and deal with it in small sections. Work at their army bit by bit until you can face up against the remainder of their army. I always try to have about 9 sentries out at all times when i play zerg

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by PiG

HT all the way. Same range as fungal with faster cast speed just make sure your HT are on a separate hotkey and get used to sending lone HT out front to zap them! It's tricky so practice with a ffriend till you get good at it

Yes.

If Zerg wants to put gas into Infestors, put gas into templar, and go into a more immortal/ht/archon lategame mix rather than stalker/colo/sentry.

[mR.bONG789]

use feedback, send like 4 stalkers and a ht foward to snipe off infestors, if he just attacks with his units then blink out and hit him again afther the cooldown (or just storm your stalkers he sends lings), if he fungles you then feedback his shit. if he neurals your ht just blink foward and snipe his infestors.

[pikk0n]

the unit composition from xeen seems stronger and more reliable because so far, it seems that the issue is dealing with infestor roach. What I am more worried about are the bane drops + fungal onto your deathball which seems to be almost impossible to deal with if you have a standard stalker, sentry and colo army.....

[Bielsko]

HTs are just bad compared to infestors. Phoenix's and good forcefields are the best counter to infestors. A soft counter is hallucination but that takes away a lot of possible forcefields.

Against a good player storm will do max 50 damage (unless its hydra heavy) it is only worth it really late game when zerg has +3 armor otherwise collosus is a much better choice not only coz there's more damage but you don't have to rely on chokes and there is much less micro.

Why feedback isn't a good counter to infestors: fungal growth has range 9+2 (because of the extra AOE) and feedback has range 9. This would be alright if high templar were the same speed or cost a lot less, but they only cost 50 minerals less and are almost half the speed when on creep. This match-up is a lot like stalkers vs marines, although the marines can get lucky when the player with the stalker isn't watching, but technically the stalkers can't die to marines when used correctly.

The only way to use feedback effectively is with an observer and sneak up on idle infestors but there is only a certain number of times you can do this before the zerg responds with a creep tumor/overlord or fungals your observer.

[Azure]

Sounds like is mainly micro related them anything else.
With all thing's it takes practice HT can destroy infestors it just takes micro

on the other end of the stick it is actually pretty hard to use Neural Parasite on colossus due to them having range 9 (infestors die to quickly) if they keep the colossus behind there army it is almost impossible to get a Neural Parasite to stick for more then a couple seconds for that reason i normally just use fungal.

with force fields blink stalkers and micro you should be ok

[ZergGirl]

I dunno what's best. HT don't bother me, phoenix really don't bother me either but a little collo wiggle (micro back and forth etc) with FF and blink stalkers ruins my day many times

If both armies are maxxed you should be quite fine with your current unit comp though, I find 4+ collo are when I QQ and die if i'm playing stupid. (any other number is 'meh')

[Bielsko]

It doens't take micro to kill infestors with HTs, it takes luck or a lack of skill from the zerg player. As I said above HTs move at half the speed and have less range than fungal... Once a fungal hits any unit it is forced into a stop command hence feedback has to be reissued if the templar got fungal'd which is unnecessary apm because the infestors won't be on high energy anymore after fungalling.