[Baldie]

Community,

Here is your best opportunity to give feedback on any aspect of the 2013 season. The core ACL team will be going away to spend a few days in the coming month to discuss this year and what we want to do and achieve in 2014. We value your feedback greatly be it positive or constructively negative. What you say could have a significant impact on how the Australian Cyber League looks in 2014.

We are looking for feedback on..

• Online Rounds
• Offline Events
• Tournament Format
• Spectator Experience
• Competitor Experience
• Streaming Experience
• Community Interaction

.. and any other feedback you can think of!

[Stallion]

from watching streams theres a lot of downtime in both Sc2 and LoL, id suggest saving games and casting them between series or something til the next match is ready. Maybe have more casters to accomplany this

Quick Comments

syfCrimson:

As ever, I agree with the mighty Stallywaggle

[syfRize]

Viewer perspective for me -
I watched as much of ACL's Sc2 broadcast as I could, and...

Good stuff;
- Casting was absolutely fantastic!
- Games were entertaining and the quality of which to view them was excellent.
- Pezz and Pet sitting next to eachother, they're so cute.

Bad stuff;
- The downtime, as was mentioned in a previous post. (Perhaps prepare highlight reels or interview clips for extended breaks?)
- The internet issues, but I know it was most likely out of your power so it is fine, I just think it may have upset some players.
- During downtime I was not a fan of watching the LoL and CoD areas.

[Bav]

All the starcraft streaming was awesome, so no complaints there.
Only thing I would like to see is BF4 in the mix (:

[syfSoundwave]

I dunno how feasible it is but try and get more content apart from just pure games on the ACLPro channel. I'd be interested in seeing recaps, interviews and all sorts of other things on there.

Also, maybe try and arrange for an off-site stream, because there's so many wonderful open bracket and group stage games that don't get casted. An off-site stream would help with that and wouldn't put any additional pressure on your already overworked men.

Quick Comments

SLCN.Kez:

Absolutely love the idea of off-site stream

[SLCN.Kez]

Inb4 I suck ACL's dick, which I do, since if they stop there will be no more dick and Australian e-sports will go from being endangered species to extinct.

Online Rounds

-These were well run and massive double elim format is best I think.

Offline Events

-Your bread and butter. In my personal experience having been to every event they are always the highlights of my year. Personally I loved having a bar at ACL Sydney, and I think a lot of others did too. One problem A few people mentioned was sc2 felt a little bit like a 'side-show'. I understand that these days it is compare to LoL, but could be food for thought and suggest rotating around who gets main stage at certain events ie. in Melb sc2 does, in Sydney CoD does etc etc.

Only other feedback would be internet, don't need to tell you guys the net kinda sucked at Sydney, and whilst I understand you couldn't really help it, having good internet is a MUST.

Tournament Format
-I think everyone likes the top 3 advance into ro12 with 1st in groups getting a bye round. Some people mentioned a double elim lower bracket might be good but personally I think this is not necessary. There is a slight element of luck with who you get in a single-elim, but this only provides more hype and excitement, you aren't going to be able to please everybody on this.

With Open Bracket, I think its more beneficial to have a massive double elim bracket like the Online quals, as you do have a bit of luck in which group of x players you get where only 2 can advance. In massive double elim bracket whilst 1 or 2 people maybe get unlucky ie. hit a good player round 1 and then another good player in lower bracket, I feel this mitigates the profound bad luck of getting 3 solid players in a group where only 2 can possibly advance.

Spectator Experience

At Sydney you guys did a great job of this, the casters were extremely audible (a problem you've had in the past) and the sc2 stage was fantastic and well designed, albeit of to the side slightly. Can't comment on experience from home.

Competitor Experience

-Again other than internet issues I thought it was good overall. A few Pro players mention the annoyance that they get there at 11-12 then don't really play for a few hours or their group matches are spaced out a lot and they don't really get into a rhythm of playing, which can be quite annoying. How you fix this I'm not really sure, if you have people come to late you risk falling behind/having down time for players who qualled from Open Bracket. The problem of spacing their games out was dealt with better at Sydney where you had enough computers that everyone in groups could play simultaneously and where they sat was already pre-planned, which was good organisation.

Streaming Experience
Again, can't really commentate on this, but down time is definitely an issue, and I'd suggest sending a message to the community to either make some funny interviews/content/whatever the **** pre done so you can play them on stream, or just have a list of generally well accepted videos like carbot/tempo songs/whatever that you can play when a game is being ready.

Also as Baldie is quite busy you'd need someone to be talking between stream and players so you can get another game ready as soon as stream is done

Community Interaction

Since this IS community interaction I'm going to guess you mean at your offline events, and tbh there isn't a whole lot you can do about this other than get a someone to run around with a mic and cam and bug audience people. Perhaps something like stream give-aways/beta keys could be looked into as well.

As always these are merely small factors and not fatal flaws, that if not fixed will lead to the death of e-sports. (actually bad internet might fall into this category).

I'd like to say that you guys have come a long way in sc2 since 2012, but in all actuality not a whole lot has changed really, even my first even you had a nice stream with good commentators, a sick live experience, decent prize pool and lots of players show up to your events, so I guess I'll just say keep up the good work.

Oh actually on that side note a few players do qq about prize pool, but there isn't really a lot you can do about that/a lot of it is being self entitled little bitches, but insert captain obvious quote, more prize pool would be awesome.

Oh actually last thing, a few people I spoke to at the event mentioned they only found out about the event x days/hours before the event actually started, and I do agree there needs to be more hype/shit surrounding an upcoming event. Whether this is getting scholars to write hype articles of mythical proportions to get people more interested, having someone from ACL reach out to community members/websites/big sc2 people like artosis/incontrol etc to spread awareness (many australian followers don't even know sc2sea exists). I also spoke to the dude from UNSW sc2 group who said he had no idea the event was on and he could have gotten a lot of people down if he knew in advance, things like this could really help.

Actually since I'm a genius I just came up with a great idea for prize pool AND content, (preface: NFI where actual extra funds will come from) But you could totally do something where you ask the community to make vids/content/whatever the **** and increase prize pool based on amount of (useable) content you get!

Ok I think that's about all I got

/end wall of text

[syfSoundwave]

Originally Posted by SLCN.Kez

With Open Bracket, I think its more beneficial to have a massive double elim bracket like the Online quals, as you do have a bit of luck in which group of x players you get where only 2 can advance. In massive double elim bracket whilst 1 or 2 people maybe get unlucky ie. hit a good player round 1 and then another good player in lower bracket, I feel this mitigates the profound bad luck of getting 3 solid players in a group where only 2 can possibly advance.

I agree with this. I think the ACL Brisbane Open Bracket this year was cooler than the ACL Melbourne/Sydney ones.

Quick Comments

asdfSchnitzel:

Brisbane is cooler than Melbourne/Sydney* fixed it for you

[Montycarlo]

Competitor Experience

I participated in ACL Melbourne and the experience was great. I want to personally thank you for manning the fort the whole time, it was obvious you were incredibly busy trying to manage everything. Also I'd like to extend a thanks to Kez who I could see running around finding players all day.

The only problem I had with my time there was playing a match on the sub-stage. The table was far too small to accommodate the screen and keyboard in such a way that it was comfortable for both your eyes and your arms. The screen was just too big in my opinion, I had to sit quite far back and since the table didn't extend far out enough so I had to hold my arms out like a zombie to play, and thus I didn't feel like I was playing well in any regard because of it.

/Naniwa mode

[SLCN.ARze]

One suggestion is to give BYEs immediately if a player no shows. Should not be allowed to play in the LB late. This is because the seeding is done in the WB and expects high seed players to win. However if they show up late in the LB it gives match ups that aren't expected, and it is quite unfair to players in the LB.

The incentive against this is not there, as often these strong players already have a high position in points, so therefore they are in a position to be knocked to LB and be fine.

It's not just a simple situation of, the bracket sucks, I want it to be changed.

One situation that can illustrate this is Me vs Azz in round 1. Stoicwilly awaits in Round 2, and loser of round 2 faces HuT in LB, who showed up late.

It is therefore beneficial to lose in round 1, me vs azz, as it places us in another bracket in the LB. If hut had played from the start or not played at all, this scenario would only arise if hut lost to a scrub (highly unprobable). It's not just simply a case of bad bracket luck. Nothing against hut for what happened of course!

Quick Comments

HuT:

wow bm me more pls~

[iM tgun]

This will be no-bullshit 100% honest. Please don't take it the wrong way -- I really hope ACL continues to grow and succeed.

• Online Rounds
  These are fine. Honestly, they're ran well, the stream is nice, they're spaced out well and with a good format. Absolutely no qualms.
• Offline Events
  I feel like I've covered this in the other parts of this post. However I'm going to go on a small personal rant. I love that ACL runs events constantly and is essentially one of the VERY few things keeping Australian SC2 alive. However, you can't go out and complain about not getting enough volunteers to set up when your venue is in such an awkward position for so many. For example:
  For me - 1h30min to arrive by public transport. ~50min to drive.
  For PiG - ~1h (rough guess) to arrive by public transport. At least.
  For Iaguz - probably longer than these.
  For Ninja - he stayed with PiG because his house is even further away than mine.
  A lot more people traveled interstate and thus would have likely not even been there in-time to set-up. If the venue was in a more central place (say, closer to a train station) I'm sure there would be more volunteers. However, it was an extremely weird way to open up the event. For a post on the internet after? Sure. To small groups of people? Sure. To your whole damn crowd directly preceding an event? You basically said "thanks for being ungrateful wankers" -- even though I'm sure that wasn't the intention.
• Tournament Format
  I think your open bracket system is strange (at tournaments). However, it works quite well so there isn't much to criticise. I love the fact that the final bracket is all single elim, however I think that if you're going to run single elimination you should consider starting Bo5 earlier and a potential Bo7 finals. This is, of course, if time would lend itself to this.
• Spectator Experience
  From what I saw, the spectator experience was great. There was no restriction to the players while they were playing -- which could be a negative, but seems like it worked out fine. SC2 not being on the main stage is understandable (and honestly, logical) and where the SC2 stage was set up was in its own little area - which has both benefits and downside. Benefitial in that hearing the casters would be a lot simpler than putting us where CoD was, detrimental in that you don't get the extra viewership -- for example, when a LoL match would conclude, many people would simply start watching CoD due to the convenience factor.
• Competitor Experience
  All I can comment on is the tournaments I played in -- honestly, they were all reasonable. The internet always seems to lag though. Every event. There has to be some way to check this before-hand. However, the admins and technical setup is almost always spectacular.
• Streaming Experience
  Way too much downtime. Put someone with a microphone doing interviews and run them during downtime. KingKong would be a phenomenal interviewee. Can't hurt to put Andy's face on a stream, ever. Like was suggested earlier, get replays and cast them. There simply just isn't enough content and it's tough to keep someone glued to a stream with downtimes that are extremely random.
• Community Interaction
  Could be improved, but I'm not well versed enough on the situation to comment here.

Quick Comments

NvRossi:

5 mins drive for me :D

[syfSoundwave]

Originally Posted by iM tgun

alms.

• Offline Events
  I feel like I've covered this in the other parts of this post. However I'm going to go on a small personal rant. I love that ACL runs events constantly and is essentially one of the VERY few things keeping Australian SC2 alive. However, you can't go out and complain about not getting enough volunteers to set up when your venue is in such an awkward position for so many. For example:
  For me - 1h30min to arrive by public transport. ~50min to drive.
  For PiG - ~1h (rough guess) to arrive by public transport. At least.
  For Iaguz - probably longer than these.
  For Ninja - he stayed with PiG because his house is even further away than mine.
  A lot more people traveled interstate and thus would have likely not even been there in-time to set-up. If the venue was in a more central place (say, closer to a train station) I'm sure there would be more volunteers.

This is another good point. Back when Azz was on ETL, he made groups at ACL Brisbane. This was his score in group by the end of Day 1.

2-0 Jambi
2-1 Light
1-2 ShOckWavE

He still had to play Ninja and mOOnGLaDe to see who would advance. Advancing was unlikely for him, but still possible. However, it was like a 40-60 min drive each way for him so, coupled with a leg injury, Azz decided it wasn't even worth it to go on Day 2 (too far out of the way), thus forfeiting to Ninja and mOOnGLaDe. That's pretty shitty and disappointing and while I think that's more of an Azz problem than an ACL problem, it's worth noting.

My teammate Crumize (who doesn't play SC2 anymore but that's beside the point) who lives in Melbourne attended the ACL there. It took him two hours by train to get to the venue. So just for one day, going there and back, that's four hours.

Crumize was one Bo3 away from groups, having to play Malice, but before the games Crumize let me know that even if he qualified for groups he wasn't going to show up tomorrow. Being his teammate, I asked him why, and he said that he's not going to take another four hours of his life traveling just for a few games of StarCraft on Day 2. That's...fair enough, honestly. I was disappointed but I couldn't really fault him. Although he lost 2-1 to Malice so it ended up not being an issue, lol. Lots of other people, even some Melbourne natives, noted the odd location for the venue.

Quick Comments

	SLCN.Kez:	In brisbane the venue was in the city, what you want them to do, host it at his house?
	RuineD:	shameless etl plug

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by ETL.Soundwave

This is another good point. Back when Azz was on ETL, he made groups at ACL Brisbane. This was his score in group by the end of Day 1.

2-0 Jambi
2-1 Light
1-2 ShOckWavE

He still had to play Ninja and mOOnGLaDe to see who would advance. Advancing was unlikely for him, but still possible. However, it was like a 40-60 min drive each way for him so, coupled with a leg injury, Azz decided it wasn't even worth it to go on Day 2 (too far out of the way), thus forfeiting to Ninja and mOOnGLaDe. That's pretty shitty and disappointing and while I think that's more of an Azz problem than an ACL problem, it's worth noting.

My teammate Crumize (who doesn't play SC2 anymore but that's beside the point) who lives in Melbourne attended the ACL there. It took him two hours by train to get to the venue. So just for one day, going there and back, that's four hours.

Crumize was one Bo3 away from groups, having to play Malice, but before the games Crumize let me know that even if he qualified for groups he wasn't going to show up tomorrow. Being his teammate, I asked him why, and he said that he's not going to take another four hours of his life traveling just for a few games of StarCraft on Day 2. That's...fair enough, honestly. I was disappointed but I couldn't really fault him. Although he lost 2-1 to Malice so it ended up not being an issue, lol. Lots of other people, even some Melbourne natives, noted the odd location for the venue.

I just want to add onto this -- I'll still attend events in Sydney, even if they're all still at the roundhouse, purely because I love the events themselves. It's just a giant pain in the arse.

Quick Comments

[TA]LoSt:

I fly interstate for the events, even when I'm not playing, because they're really enjoyable!

[Dox]

Originally Posted by iM tgun

Tournament Format
I think your open bracket system is strange (at tournaments). However, it works quite well so there isn't much to criticise. I love the fact that the final bracket is all single elim, however I think that if you're going to run single elimination you should consider starting Bo5 earlier and a potential Bo7 finals. This is, of course, if time would lend itself to this.

iirc SC2 is almost always finished hours before CoD, so they can probably squeeze some extra games in.

Originally Posted by ETL.Soundwave

This is another good point. Back when Azz was on ETL, he made groups at ACL Brisbane. This was his score in group by the end of Day 1.

2-0 Jambi
2-1 Light
1-2 ShOckWavE

He still had to play Ninja and mOOnGLaDe to see who would advance. Advancing was unlikely for him, but still possible. However, it was like a 40-60 min drive each way for him

That was literally the most accessible venue out of all. It doesn't get more central than that. :x


I'll echo the stream downtime you've heard about a million times already. Having someone on the ground roaming/interviewing will fill time perfectly. Nothing else needed.

Quick Comments

	syfSoundwave:	I said it was more of Azz's problem than ACL's problem, it was being used to tie into the genuine venue complaints,
	RuineD:	so, as you said, it's azz's problem, not acls. thus it's not really constructive feedback
	SLCN.ARze:	i feel all acl's should be held in melbourne, ideally in my suburb

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by Dox

iirc SC2 is almost always finished hours before CoD, so they can probably squeeze some extra games in.


That was literally the most accessible venue out of all. It doesn't get more central than that. :x


I'll echo the stream downtime you've heard about a million times already. Having someone on the ground roaming/interviewing will fill time perfectly. Nothing else needed.

Just on the stream downtime note. Roaming camera even of itself would be fine. I remember at ACL Sydney last year they had something like this. I distinctly remember watching ninja vs jazbas on Antiga from behind ninja for a little while. This is something cool that also familiarises the stream audience with where the players are actually playing. Players could sit behind someone and just talk about the game, interviews if you had someone to do that.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by x5_NXZ

Just on the stream downtime note. Roaming camera even of itself would be fine. I remember at ACL Sydney last year they had something like this. I distinctly remember watching ninja vs jazbas on Antiga from behind ninja for a little while. This is something cool that also familiarises the stream audience with where the players are actually playing. Players could sit behind someone and just talk about the game, interviews if you had someone to do that.

Hell if you run another event in Sydney, put the Camera over the players shoulder and get another player of the same race (eg: ninja is playing, grab moonglade) and talk about what ninjas doing and why -- from his perspective.

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by iM tgun

Hell if you run another event in Sydney, put the Camera over the players shoulder and get another player of the same race (eg: ninja is playing, grab moonglade) and talk about what ninjas doing and why -- from his perspective.

Yeah as long as the player is fine with this it would be sweet.

[x5_Bard]

Negatives

Open bracket: You need firmer rules for the open bracket. Melbourne just seemed strange to me. Although changing the open bracket to bo1 for time constraints was reasonable, to then change them back to bo3 was weird. I remember confusion in the Malice vs Glade series when Malice won the first game, thought he had won the series due to bo1 and was then told he had to play a bo3. That was unfair.

Late Players: I think you are aware of how frustrated I was about Fonzie and Pig being penalised a game each for for being (and I quote you) "30 seconds late". I know you were trying to be firmer after everyone on day 1 arrived whenever they wanted, but this was over the top. Also I would have been fine if hut was sitting on the main stage all set up in a lobby, waiting for his opponent. But you had not even organised this. You talked about time constraints for the entire event but if you are waiting for someone it would seem logical to have everything already set up for when they arrive.

Basically please make a firmer walkover rule with a concrete time for when players are walkovered/forfeit games. A simple 15 minutes after scheduled start would be fine. Others have also made suggestions regarding the open bracket which would also work. Just pick one and stick by it.

Event Stream: The stream was simply frustrating for me to watch. I turned it off after one point and simply got updates from people at the event. I'm not going to go into this because I think you are already aware of the issues.

Positives

Online rounds: These are fantastic. Well organised, good streaming quality and production values.

Spectator Experience at offline events: I found it really enjoyable being able to watch both players perspectives at the same time, not sure if you do this at every event but it was really cool. There was enough seating and the stage was well lit. My only thought would be that it needed rum, but hey then poor stormz wouldn't be allowed in.

On a side note I would be happy to volunteer to set up and pack up, but when I have to travel an hour to and from the event its just not logical.

Quick Comments

	iM tgun:	If it was +15minutes 30seconds, then I fully support the admins decision. If it was literally 30 seconds, nope..
	x5.Stormz:	5 months Bard 5 months :P

[Baldie]

To chip in, at Melbourne to have 65 open bracket players is both amazing but also logistically a nightmare. Being my first event as head admin doing all schedules etc there definitely was a lot of learnings from it and I hope they showed at Sydney.

Melbourne was in no way a demonstration of the kind of events and communication I want to happen but ultimately what I did needed to happen otherwise we would have finished at 2am again. Admittedly in the heat of the moments there were some communication breakdowns. All I can say is that kind of thing will never happen again.

In regards to the Day 2 walkovers. I made it clear to everybody the doors opened at 8:30am, I wanted people in client by 9am ready and if the game hadn't started at 9:15am whoever wasn't ready would be penalised. Now I hate doing that, but for PiG and MegaFonzie to arrive at 9:15 (apparently thinking I said 9:30am start) I can't do anything about. Games were meant to start at 9am to catch up as we were behind schedule, that 15 minutes buffer was until 9:15. You could argue me not penalising the HuT vs ?? game was a mistake but they were in client, not just starting to setup their peripherals.

Ultimately there are learnings for both me and players from that event and I understand your frustration at the situation. I also can take responsibility for a lot of what happened at Melbourne and like I said, I hope there were noticeable differences and transparency at Sydney.

[x5_Bard]

Originally Posted by Baldie

You could argue me not penalising the HuT vs ?? game was a mistake but they were in client, not just starting to setup their peripherals.

Hut was playing Fonzie, which is why I was annoyed you forfeited Fonzie a game when hut wasn't even set up to play. Also I remember us arriving just before 9, socialising a bit then being told that we were being penalised for being late. Obviously we remember this situation differently but no use arguing, its in the past and both PiG and Fonzie won 2-1 anyway!

Also you've got to remember that if your venue is an hour away from where people are staying then commute times can vary greatly. Its fine if you need to make the start time earlier due to a rough first day. But when you make the start time 9, people are now dealing with rush hour traffic. Someone could be well organised and just get stuck/miss a connecting bus/train. This is not really their own fault (especially interstate players), they were just unlucky. Being a little understanding of these kind of circumstances would go a long way I think. Especially on the last day of bracket play where 1 game can make a huge difference.

Quick Comments

Baldie:

Yeah all good learned from it hopefully a situation like it doesnt happen again!

[SLCN.NXZ]

I don't know when you would ideally want the event to end but I have noticed that with the new final bracket format it feels like it ends earlier. This might be me imagining things but I would like to see maybe bo5 start a round earlier and a bo7 final or just one of those. Would enjoy that.

I do also agree that I liked Brisbane open bracket more, for Melbourne and Sydney I opened the brackets once and immediately knew the top 2. As much as people don't want randomness and bracket luck in tournaments I think that having a bigger bracket with bigger names hitting each other earlier makes for a more exciting tournament rather than "lets wait for those 8 players to finish winning a few games before they finally are in groups".

Lastly, I know its been mentioned a lot but getting a venue that is centralized makes for a better event. Brisbane was great, Melbourne not so much, don't know about Sydney but it would be amazing to see more of the Brisbane esque venues. Internet is crucial too but I'm sure you are already aware.

So yeah, once you're at ACL its great (minus a few small things) but the getting there and the downtime are the issues that I've seen most people have problems with.

[iM tgun]

Kez: Yes, in Brisbane it was in the city. And you know what? Even though I traveled interstate, I rocked up the day before to see if we could help. We got there and everything was already set-up and there wasn't much we could do besides say hi to everyone. That was an example of an amazing venue - close to train stations, etc... The roundhouse is an example of one less amazing.

[nGenLight]

Stream experience - I really did not enjoy the downtime and the lack of entertainment fillers and information. I would love an ETA of who is playing who, an update on games that are not streamed, rundown/analysis of previous games and current tournament status, interviews, etc etc. I understand this requires alot of time/effort and cooperation with players, but this would be something I really would love to see improved instead of sitting there deciding if I should go do something else.

On a positive note, I've always enjoyed the online rounds stream experience because the casters are always engaged and interacting with the audience.

Just have someone continue to talk to the audience is great. I'm sure a few people would love to volunteer walking around interviewing different people about their predictions and their hate for Protoss.

[TtSYF.tRoy]

Melbourne was good fun, like dox said getting some interviews and what not would be pretty cool and fill the down time. Other than that i don't have anything else to say about except,

#BaldieKillingeSports

Quick Comments

asdfSchnitzel:

troy eats babies confirmed

[Baldie]

One of our main focuses while over in America will be around structure and format.

In 2014 there will be 2-3 offline events and an array of online rounds again. It is most likely we will not do open bracket at all next year, meaning offline events will purely be invite only by points. This is due to a variety of reasons but in simple terms, the demand isn't high enough to justify the resources required to have it.

As a result we appreciate the format and structure of our online rounds will be more important than ever. We would love to hear your thoughts on potential formats of our online rounds and offline events. Thank you to those who have already expressed their thoughts.

We takes these "ACL Summits" very seriously so please continue with your feedback so we can provide the best experience in 2014.

[PiG]

Originally Posted by Baldie

One of our main focuses while over in America will be around structure and format.

In 2014 there will be 2-3 offline events and an array of online rounds again. It is most likely we will not do open bracket at all next year, meaning offline events will purely be invite only by points. This is due to a variety of reasons but in simple terms, the demand isn't high enough to justify the resources required to have it.

As a result we appreciate the format and structure of our online rounds will be more important than ever. We would love to hear your thoughts on potential formats of our online rounds and offline events. Thank you to those who have already expressed their thoughts.

We takes these "ACL Summits" very seriously so please continue with your feedback so we can provide the best experience in 2014.

I think losing the open bracket would make a lot of players sad. Also losing all the signup fees and having less spectators could hurt the event (though if production increases then that probably easily makes up in spectators). The two sc2 Open-brackets this year had at least 40 signups on top of the 16 players already qualified. I guess that's only between $1000-$1500 which isn't a lot considering how much these events cost to put on, but it is something.

I guess it's just some of the storylines which evolve and the chance for up-and-coming players to prove themselves which has always been great for the community. I would love to see the open-bracket continue.

So you said that the demand isn't high enough to continue open-brackets. Could you please tell us what sort of demand would allow it to continue? If you could guarantee 75+ open bracket signups would it be a different story?

As for admins and setting up and packing down I know that it's a big effort to set up and pack it all down for a bunch of volunteers and I'm always amazed by the job you guys do. This is an area I really think the community needs to step in and help out. I personally will be trying to spread the word that more volunteers are needed to keep these events as strong as they are, and with the help of all the teams promoting ACL in each community I can easily imagine us consistently getting more volunteers on the ground at these events.

I don't imagine that will make these events less stressful, but it will make it less overwhelming and a little more manageable for you guys.

The question I have though is how many more signups, volunteers and admins would make an open-bracket feasible?

[NvRossi]

I'd like points earned to mean something.

I've always hated having to play in every single qualifier to guarantee myself a slot.

[ACL VaNzR]

Guys, it's always great to read feedback in these threads. I'm going to BUMP this a bit and ask that you please complete a survey we have just released, along with Part 1 of a 2013 Review I'm putting together.

Please bear in mind this is probably the most negative of the 3 parts in the review. There are some ugly things to talk about unfortunately, though I'm a positive person and believe our communities can rise above those issues to make 2014 fantastic.

Thanks for your time and I look forward to collating your anonymous feedback.

FEEDBACK SURVEY AND REVIEW HERE: http://forums.aclpro.com.au/t/acl-pr...13-review/5964

[syfMiley]

No worries Nick! Will send feedback on through there.

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by ACL VaNzR

Guys, it's always great to read feedback in these threads. I'm going to BUMP this a bit and ask that you please complete a survey we have just released, along with Part 1 of a 2013 Review I'm putting together.

Please bear in mind this is probably the most negative of the 3 parts in the review. There are some ugly things to talk about unfortunately, though I'm a positive person and believe our communities can rise above those issues to make 2014 fantastic.

Thanks for your time and I look forward to collating your anonymous feedback.

FEEDBACK SURVEY AND REVIEW HERE: http://forums.aclpro.com.au/t/acl-pr...13-review/5964

hey man i helped with pack down

[syfSoundwave]

If you get rid of open bracket you really do take away the most awesome aspect of ACL IMO: getting to meet players from all over ANZ. Meeting teammates, meeting forum buddies, meeting pro players. But not many people are gonna fly/drive interstate to hang out with you if they aren't even gonna get the opportunity to play. Without open bracket, these events will just be a clique between the same 16-20ish pros over and over again, with the occasional underdog slipping in through the online rounds (eg, Schnitzel and Afhrait at ACL Sydney, Nomad at ACL Brisbane). While that's all fine for the spectators who get to meet the pros, people like me, Aiya, Xormentor, fuckin uhhhhhh...RunaMoK will probably just be sitting at home practicing and praying to god we get through that online round, cause that's basically the only way we're gonna get rewarded for our passion then, since flying to ACL to interact and play with everyone you know from all around ANZ won't be happening anymore.

Originally Posted by PiG

I guess it's just some of the storylines which evolve and the chance for up-and-coming players to prove themselves which has always been great for the community. I would love to see the open-bracket continue.

This too. With no open bracket you don't have things like Djvillian's absurd underdog run at ACL Melbourne. He had a pretty large crowd watching him towards the end of the bracket (most of which was probably ToR guys :P) just because of the story there. He certainly isn't the only one. No open bracket also means no Stormz at ACL Melbourne, getting to meet his Exile 5 teammates, and he also had a pretty decent sized crowd watching him.

There is very little in SC2 that is cooler than watching your teammates games while standing behind them. You get so ******* emotionally invested in a way that pro SC2 really can't match (unless it's like GSL Finals between your favourite player and some random)

[ACL VaNzR]

To be clear, I think the most important takeaway is: Without committed helpers (about 4-5 times more than what we have now - which is just Baldie) - there will be no open bracket.

I too, agree with the great positives of an Open Bracket and want to see it continue - but we can't run a top quality production with it in play (and no help from the community). The harsh truth is that SC2 players are the least willing to help of any community, and we just won't do it anymore unless people step up. Putting your hand up as a 'oh I might pop in after work' won't suffice, as ACL Sydney made it clear that noone would do that. Volunteering is a BIG commitment, we get that, and we don't EXPECT anyone to do it. But the choice is very plain: Better production/stream or NO stream/shit stream and an open bracket. Either that or more people come out of the woodwork.

PiG, I'll answer your question with numbers etc soon. As someone who tries desperately to be an optimist, I'd like to say the answer is we can have both, but after 24 months of having 1-2 volunteers from this community instead of the 5-6 we need, my hopes aren't high.

Quick Comments

	syfSoundwave:	We all appreciate the work you guys put in. Hope a solution can be found for all our sakes ^^
	syfChadMann:	5*0 stillequals 0.. :(

[ChowMuddha]

this maybe a stupid question... but what the heck. lets say i volunteer is it an entire event commitment or is it helping setup/packing up. Because i would like to participate in the open in future acl events

[ACL VaNzR]

Originally Posted by ChowMuddha

this maybe a stupid question... but what the heck. lets say i volunteer is it an entire event commitment or is it helping setup/packing up. Because i would like to participate in the open in future acl events

Just the setup/packdown my friend. That's what is most needed, though we do like to have 1-2 additional admins throughout the event. We understand they are harder to find (non players) but when you have an open bracket of 60 like we had in Melbourne, it should be easier to find those for setup/packdown.

For all those reading. I will go into more detail about our lack of communication (ACL to blame) in Part 2 of my review. This is a two way street.

Thanks all for reading and communicating thus far . Still so much love for SC2. xo

[TtSYF.tRoy]

It would be sad to see open bracket go but what Vanzr is saying is completely true, Im not sure about Brisbane because i didn't follow the event for some reason but at Melbourne and Sydney there were hardly any volunteers.
At Melbourne we had Baldie - Myself - Kez (legend)
At Sydney i believe we had Baldie - Runamok
Unfortunately i couldn't get up to Sydney When ACL announced the possibility of having a open bracket at Sydney they stated they needed 4-5 volunteers or they simply won't do it. My question is where did these volunteers go?
We talk down the Call Of Duty community for being loud and immature and we complain how LoL is getting more attention yet players and spectators of our community wont help organisations like ACL run awesome events.
Mind boggling.

[Maynarde]

I am obviously with the community here; do not want to lose the open bracket. I also am one of the few who have the unique perspective of being involved behind production and also being a fan / spectator out in the crowd from time to time as well. Production is a SHIT load of work, those guys and VaNz and the other admins work so hard it makes me physically ill watching them. They need help!

For ACL and indeed SC2 in general to grow in this country / region, it needs to get bigger and better as time goes on, not drop off. With the lack of money that exists in this industry, more help is needed!

Right now, even with the recent "ded gaem" bullshit and DOOOOOOM reddit threads about SC2's future on the world stage that were all the rage recently, I feel like the game is doing great in this country. Why? Dat ACL and it's Open Bracket; everytime I arrive to an event I'm happily surprised and enjoy the fact that there are a bunch of new faces and the sign ups just keep getting bigger and bigger. Melbourne 2013 had a record amount of signups I believe, Brissy and Sydney weren't too shabby either!

This is ALL without Blizzard's bank roll too. The local Blizzard dudes love the community, they give back as much as their budget permits, and head office decides how big the budget for them is. The bigger and louder the community, the bigger and louder the event, the more the big wigs are gonna help the little wigs. Makes sense to me! These events being run on the bank and backs of small sponsors, passionate nerds and fans is freakin' impressive.

To add on VaNzR's call to action, I got one of my own: I am a full-time worker, who studies in my spare time, and travels often. I pay all expenses to travel to and from these events, and I am going to be arriving early to every ACL in 2014 to personally help set up for you guys. This isn't for thanks or pats on the back or whatever. This is for me, you, and the game.

I love this game and want to see it kick ass in this country, if I can take time to rock up to the venue and spend a few hours in your home town then I dare say it won't be difficult for 5 or 6 other local dudes / dudettes to join me. We sure as hell get more than that rocking up to open bracket, and sure as hell get more than that spectating. So yeah. JOIN ME and (hopefully) others when we're in your town to keep SC2 and ACL getting bigger and better for 2014.

PS. If you go to ACL's and haven't come said hello wtf do it in 2014 I KNOW SOME OF YOU STILL HAVEN'T and I love meeting new nerd friends and adding to my wondrous eSpatz family. Might even get a cuddle! ;o

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	**** yeah!~
	asdfSchnitzel:	i'll do it someday maybe possibly
	Tileä:	Will I ever get a cuddle? T__T

[NvRossi]

hitting up that survey!

my 2c

1. Sydney help was pretty unfortunately timed with another event which definitely lead to less people volunteering. Still a shitty turnout
2. I always struggle with knowing how i can help during the pack-up, and time is always a bit restricted due to having to head off as a group. I guess the moral of that story is i need to come up earlier and ask how i can help before all the hustle.

very sleepy, nothing else to add for now!

[ACL VaNzR]

Originally Posted by NvRossi

2. I always struggle with knowing how i can help during the pack-up, and time is always a bit restricted due to having to head off as a group.

I love you Rossi, so I'm sorry to pick - but this mentality right here. This. That group... if they helped out (properly helped out - not just when I tell you guys to reluctantly do things for 2 minutes).... for 1 full hour or 2... would save the rest of us about 6-8 hours. Gotta be said.

Granted, more team leaders and direction would be great to give you guys. Dually noted.

[Dox]

Without the ACL Open Bracket, SC2 in Australia would almost definitely fold.

In 2012, we had support from WCS, Gamespot, ACL, Gigabyte, CityHunter and numerous other events. For the most part - our calendars were saturated. We suffered from event overlaps. This was good and bad for all the obvious reasons.

In 2013, it's just been ACL. That's it for Offline events. And we've felt it. We've seen waves of retirements and the cascading attitude from America has echo'd far too of a familiar tune.

The future of Oceanic SC2 is literally in the hands of the community. Honestly, the set-up / pack-down isn't hard work. Most the time you just stand around socialising when this is happening anyway. So why not lend a hand? It's actually pretty fun.

[nGenLight]

Originally Posted by Dox

In 2012, we had support from WCS, Gamespot, ACL, Gigabyte, CityHunter and numerous other events. For the most part - our calendars were saturated. We suffered from event overlaps. This was good and bad for all the obvious reasons.

Everything looked so promising in 2012. Sad to see SC2 fall off the mainstream in Australia.

Big kudos to ACL!

[syfChadMann]

My thing with the group leaving etc.. is usually because the group is so ******* hungry. Always so hard to get time to go get food.. waiting, not sure when you have to play etc. Need to mix that schedule into things a bit.. Or put on Lunch? I'd chuck in $10 for a Pizza.. I wouldn't even mind if you guys made some coin from it for the effort.

I've tried to help as much as I can.. but always being someone that travels interstate, its not always possible for me. I should have a bit of time at pack up though

The SC2 community want to help out. Don't lose faith in us yet mate.

Quick Comments

NvRossi:

really needed a sausage sizzle at melbourne

[Dox]

Originally Posted by fray`ChadMann

My thing with the group leaving etc.. is usually because the group is so ******* hungry. Always so hard to get time to go get food.. waiting, not sure when you have to play etc. Need to mix that schedule into things a bit.. Or put on Lunch? I'd chuck in $10 for a Pizza.. I wouldn't even mind if you guys made some coin from it for the effort.

I've tried to help as much as I can.. but always being someone that travels interstate, its not always possible for me. I should have a bit of time at pack up though

The SC2 community want to help out. Don't lose faith in us yet mate.

This is pretty piss-poor imo. You think you're hungry? Think of the volunteers who are stuck there past midnight.

EDIT: While I agree on the pizza thing (It was awesome at ACL Sydney last year), your own sustenance is your own responsibility. Everyone knows how long these events are. Bring some food with you so you can endure it!

[ETL.snexwang]

I flew from Adelaide to play at Sydney. I had a few fun games in the OB before getting demolished in my group. Despite breaking into a coughing fit every few minutes, which I'm sure was infuriating for anyone in my vicinity (sorry iaguz!), I had a blast and met some super duper cool dudes (santilicious so delicious).

A+++ would attend again.

Seriously, thanks.

[PiG]

Part 2 of Vanzr's letter is up: http://forums.aclpro.com.au/t/acl-pr...-review/5964/4

[fur]

ACL so much.

Regarding Volunteering, I have a little (don't want to overstate it here) experience in volunteering and in organising volunteers. By far the biggest obstacle in recruiting volunteers is unclear expectations.

If you simply ask people to 'volunteer' you are never going to get a good response. It's too vague. People don't like signing up when they have no idea what it means. If, however, you say "We need someone to help us unpack boxes and move tables for 4 hours on Friday the 27th of X" it seems much more approachable for novices.

I'd also add that, wherever possible, it's great to have different 'levels' of volunteering. Sure, you'd love everyone to help out for the entire weekend. But if there are any smaller, singular tasks that people can pick up those are great as well.

As for the other stuff I think most of the important things have been covered. ACL so much. I'd be very wary of reducing open brackets, however, and not just for my own selfish reasons (I love attending them). As a spectator experience I feel ACL still has a way to go before it equals other 'events' that people might spend a weekend at. By far the biggest hook is community interaction, it keeps people going, it makes 'esports' something special. If ACL didn't have an open bracket I probably would only attend ACL Melbourne, and even then only very briefly. Sure I'd tune in on the stream, but showing up for 2 days to watch StarCraft (or whatever) is a big ask unless you feel part of it.

Quick Comments

SLCN.Kez:

+1, such amaze, so skill, very wow

[mGGDrGooSe]

Engagement Engagement Engagement. Whilst your priority is obviously the running of events, spec numbers only come from advertising and word of mouth of past experiences. Think outside the box for advertising. E.g. (bear with me here) It's a real disappointment being excluded from the players area. My first ACL was an ACL syd where I spent the day sitting behind PiG and tgun, then going and sitting behind Ninja while he (almost) handed it to Targa. We were all getting ready to haul Ninja up off his feet and parade him around if he managed to take the series. These are priceless experiences. So while I understand and in many ways agree about sectioning off the players, perhaps having some lucky few with access passes might be good? These could be handed out, for example, based on a community event of some kind (stream lucky door prizes?) or by raffle or whatever. Of course, if these passes were the reward for volunteering for setup and pack down, that works too.

Quick Comments

syfSoundwave:

Brisbane this year was the only one with a restricted players area IIRC.

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by fur

By far the biggest obstacle in recruiting volunteers is unclear expectations.

What ACL is primarily asking for here is just a group to help set up the computers for open bracket before the tournament and then pack em up again at the end. This would make open bracket possible as it literally shaves 4-6 hours of setup and packup time for the main crew who usually do it (on top of their regular jobs there).

Also they are asking for people interested in getting into streaming or production to put their hand up and join to get help out backstage, which I think is a SICK opportunity for anyone in this country looking to get into video production for eSports or just production in general, their guys (JB, Blair, Doble, Simon, etc) are literally the best. This job would initially be carrying in production gear and plugging it in, then testing it and also learning how to use it. Super important for entry level Spielbergs.

Originally Posted by ETL.Soundwave

Brisbane this year was the only one with a restricted players area IIRC.

This is correct, the players lounge thing was tried and didn't really work out so most likely won't be seeing it again in the near future.

Originally Posted by Tileä

Will I ever get a cuddle? T__T

Hell yeah baby I got a big cozy maynarde flavoured cuddle for you if you drop by one of these shindigs!

[Pandan]

I've done my best to put my thoughts to paper here: http://thatpandan.wordpress.com/ (it's too many words for a single forum post!)

Forgive the rambling (and some of the tongue in cheek stuff), I wrote it as if I was just speaking to a group of friends.

Quick Comments

Zepph:

good read :)

[Zepph]

I don't think you understand how scary it is to watch the current ACL team pull these events off. Maynarde and I were blown away when we were up in the caster's room at Sydney watching these guys work. We're talking about just a few guys running 3 streams, setting up the entire venue, running the tournament and madly dashing around doing anything else that needs doing all at once. Everyone's running on empty, jacked up on caffeine and surviving on the occasional bite of food and a love for the event that they're running. I actually don't understand how ACL is as good as it is with that few people on that little sleep.

I understand the constructive criticisms people have been writing up and I agree with a lot of them. A huge one for me is the downtime on stream where viewers get left in the dark for an undetermined amount of time before the next match. Certainly, that could be remedied with some more filler material. However when I think about how stretched thin the staff are, it's hard to see where there would be that extra person to man a camera for a filler interview, or even just to walk around with the camera in the venue for something to look at on the screen.

It seems kind of strange to me that there is such a lack of volunteers when every week I usually get one or two messages from people that would like to know how to get more involved in the scene. These are people that want to produce content, to be writers, interviewers, youtubers, etc. There are also those that just want to make friends within the game and those that already have something going and would like to get connections with more experienced event organisers such as the gentlemen at ACL.

Volunteering is a great way to network with people in esports as much as it is a great way to support a local event.

If you can't contribute this way, ask yourself why you wouldn't attend an ACL event (this is something Pandan touched on) and speak up with your reasons! That kind of feedback can be super useful. I know there are 9784356784 more SC2 fans that could be at these ACLs but for some reason they don't come along. I'd love to see all of you SC2 nerds out in full force for 2014.

Anyway, TL;DR : Don't be shy, get involved, help out, make friends and have fun in the process. Even if you can only assist for a couple of hours on one day it's better than nothing!

[Pandan]

RE: Volunteers

In my very rough draft of an ACL Organisational Chart - you can already see 40 open positions that need to be filled; and there's no way that Organisational Chart is all encompassing. (it also doesn't even take into count people doing logistics and setup/packdown).

It takes a lot of people to get shit done - while technically one person could do it all - it would take an individual the greater part of a week (probably with little to no sleep). ACL often has a matter of hours to complete the task. The only option is man power.

[Turkle]

do what they did at blizzcon with the streams and do the First Person views!

Quick Comments

ChowMuddha:

I dont know why but i found this post hilarious

[fur]

Exactly Maynard and Zeph, but I don't think that was effectively communicated by ACL at all.

Volunteering is usually lots of fun. You learn shit, you meet people, you gain skills, references and leave with a warm fuzzy feeling inside. But it's all about how you sell it.

What sounds better; "ACL needs volunteers" or "Would you like to be involved in making Australian eSports a success? Click here to find out more".

Quick Comments

Zepph:

Good point :)

[mGGDrGooSe]

Originally Posted by Zepph

If you can't contribute this way, ask yourself why you wouldn't attend an ACL event (this is something Pandan touched on) and speak up with your reasons!

Honestly I think this part is largely player related. There is still a percieved lack of depth and very much a lack of 'story' (hey let's all jump on board with Blizz terms) to the event and the players. Whether these two factors are actually true or not is completely irrelevent. The perception is what will bring people to the seats. A story needs to be created (either by ACL or by teams, and rightly the responsibility should rest equally with both) and some uncertaintity in the results needs to exist as well. International players could certainly create the later - sustainability of such is highly questionable. Of the former, I think PiG/Dot (note PiG/Dot, not x5) is the only one currently doing this.

And yes I completely understand that all this still centres around lack of labour.


Edit: by the PiG/Dot thing I simply mean that PiG's name is still far large than x5's, not that x5 are doing a shit job.

[Baldie]

Keep it coming guys! Love it great great work and thank you to those who have given their time so far!

[ToR.Arnor]

We are looking for feedback on..

• Online Rounds
  They work fairly well, bit of awkwardness with everyone forfeiting once they get top 12, making for a lousy spectator experience, perhaps either forcing people to play it through, or having the incentive of a small monetary prize for winning (or even just free entry into the ACL event?). Alternatively make the Online round into 4 smaller brackets like you do for the live event.
  
• Offline Events
  Format overall is fine, how it is implemented at time is a little shaky but this is mostly down to a lack of help marshaling the event and players not taking initiative to start games themselves, not procrastinating and asking questions when they arent sure rather than sitting on their hands and waiting to be told what to do. Location for both Melbourne and Sydney were pretty terrible. Id also recomend to even start sorting out some sort of system where you guys order lunches / dinner e.g. announce over PA "hey we're gonna order pizza / chinese place your orders, have set deals to save time even skim a $1 or 2 for yourself, people wont mind, either than or go all out an bring in a BBQ and some sausages ^_^.
  
• Tournament Format
  comments including in Online / Offline events
  
  
• Spectator Experience
  I actually really enjoyed the spectator experience for Sydney, the bar upstairs was great and really got people from other game titles interacting with each other, the one down stairs was a nice setup the venue design (natural lighting) kinda ruined it however. The Lol Setups for Melbourne are Sydney were also outstanding. Personally from a experience point of view I think you're in a good spot to start charging spectators, however from a demand point of view you arent (ill address this slightly later).
  
• Competitor Experience
  N/A
  
• Streaming Experience
  Casters are good A+ I dont know why the survey asks about sending in international casters, you got a great team already.
  
• Community Interaction
  Community interaction this year (and even the 2nd half of last year) has been dreadful, no other way to describe it, yes I understand you were busy with other projects etc but to the majority of the community this isnt an excuse to set aside 30mins a day to interact/answer questions. Nick's blog (and the short conversation I had with him at ACL Sydney) I sounds like this issue will be ressolved moving forward. Regarding volunteering I echo the words of others, make the place more accessable, interact with the community and actually lock in the people who offer help (look at what charities do, you donate once and they contact you every year asking for more). There's probably feedback I could give on suggestions etc but ill wait until after Nick publishes Part 3
  

Quick Comments

SLCN.ARze:

second A+ casters!

[mGGDrGooSe]

Originally Posted by ToR.Arnor

They work fairly well, bit of awkwardness with everyone forfeiting once they get top 12, making for a lousy spectator experience, perhaps either forcing people to play it through, or having the incentive of a small monetary prize for winning (or even just free entry into the ACL event?). Alternatively make the Online round into 4 smaller brackets like you do for the live event.

When we ran SEANA, we had a rule starting that the tourney must be completely played out. Forfeiting meant forfeiting prizes/seeds as well. You could try this, but it will probably just mean that a bunch of cheese games. The only way I can see around this is to make sure that every place means something special and worth fighting for.

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by ACL VaNzR

PART THREE OF THREE coming 14/11/2013

Just wanted to make a note when things like this happen, if you make a commitment to release something and dont (yep life gets in the way), its really important to keep people informed on delays (we dont need details, just a generic sorry its delayed). This is probably coming across more negative then im intending, just a bit of feedback on your feedback/communication.

Quick Comments

Baldie:

Valid point. The post is at a point Nick would like to expand before releasing. He can say for himself the delay length

[Dox]

probs a bit busy

[Dox]

deth asked me to post his feedback here since he's banned from SC2SEA - http://whyyourgamesucks.com/2013/12/...view-part-one/

Quick Comments

	Seffy:	That was nicely written
	Baldie:	My god this man can write well!

[Dox]

Originally Posted by Dox

deth asked me to post his feedback here since he's banned from SC2SEA - http://whyyourgamesucks.com/2013/12/...view-part-one/

Here's part two from deth -
http://whyyourgamesucks.com/2013/12/...oving-forward/

[ChowMuddha]

Great write up by deth, pretty much sums up my feelings about ACL Sydney which was my first ACL event i had attended .

"Without additional funding and support, the future of SC2 at ACL is probably under threat, as I imagine it isn’t currently garnering enough player, spectator or viewing interest." well said

Not sure if i will be able to make make it Melbourne or Brisbane next year
But I should be able to volunteer for Sydney.
Without open bracket i feel as though it will be just another nail in the coffin for this wonderful game
in Australia
And i do not want to see that happen.