[jump]

Nation Wars Season 2 Powered by Neolution


Thanks largely to the efforts of MiTHjump who has managed to secure a sponsor, Season 2 of the highly successful nation wars is gonna happen soon! This will serve as an initial hype + feedback thread. Note: do not sign up here, wait for our official post. None of these details here are final, we will be using this feedback thread and bearing in mind the sponsors requests / and the organisation logistics to make our decisions.

Some of the tentative details

Organisers:
Nation war Head Admin: MiTHjump
Other Nation war Admins: nirvAnA

Team managers for Nations:
(these are who i plan to invite based on their past demonstrated qualities)

Invited Teams:
DoX has replaced TAdeL
yongming
Navi
MiTHjump
WaWa
CCM.GoMax
OrzRush

Qualifiers
pRo.Timber
Roz
nGenJothree
tGcSeQ

Team format:
Minimum squad size: 8
Maximum squad size: 12
4 Player Swaps allowed halfway through the season.

Team selection process:
This is entirely up to the individual team manager but I'll advise the team leaders to carry out selection through a 3 step process

1. Auto Invites for the obvious choices.
2. Top GM ladder ranked players at a certain date, for transparency and fairness for the majority.
3. Small wild-card tourney for the players who do not ladder.

Tourney format:
2 round robin groups of 4 nations each.
Top 2 of each group qualify for the single elimination semi final playoffs.

Match day format:
Qualifier & Group Play : 5 sets of 1v1s (bo3)
Semis/Rank3 : 5 sets of 1v1s (bo3)
Finals : 2 days Match with 4 sets of 1v1s per day (bo3)

Map pool:
• MLG Xel'Naga Caverns by HemLocK
• MLG Metalopolis v1.3 by HemLocK
• MLG Shattered Temple by HemLocK
• MLG Shakuras Plateau by HemLocK
• MLG Tal'darim Altar LE by HemLocK
• MLG Shakuras Plateau by HemLocK
• GSL Crossfire SE by wonderland
• GSL Terminus SE by wonderland
• GSL Dual Sight by wonderland
• GSL Xel'Naga Fortress by wonderland
• GSL Bel'shir Beach by wonderland
• GSL Crevasse (Official) 1.0 by wonderland

In every match admin will told about map selection (change in every week) and then manager pick player to play on each map


Date:
Timeline : (Time : 6pm SG Time)
Qualifying Teams Final Lineup Deadline : 17 July 2011
Qualifier Match : 23 July 2011
Invited Teams Final Lineup Deadline & First Week Submission : 24 July 2011
- Group Play Match 1 : 30 July 2011 For Group A / 31 July 2011 For Group B
- Group Play Match 2 : 6 August 2011 For Group A / 7 August 2011 For Group B
- Group Play Match 3 : 13 August 2011 For Group A / 14 August 2011 For Group B
- Semi Final : 20 August 2011
- Rank 3 : 21 August 2011
- Final (day 1) : 27 August 2011
- Final (day 2) : 28 August 2011

Casters:
Two official streams showing the biggest match of the week, played live.
Biggest match of group A will be on Saturday.
Biggest match of group B will be on Sunday.
Tentative list - Will add a * to their names when they have confirmed
1) Kelly+Seguer (Saturday) : http://www.justin.tv/kellymilkies
2) Xeen+Benji (Sunday) : http://www.justin.tv/benjisc2
3) Notynote (Only Thailand’s Match) : http://http://www.livestream.com/thaistreamer

+ [For Casters] +

: All streamers have to put sponsor banner in every game at bottom stream window.
: All streamers have to upload every match on youtube.

+ [Rules] +

Server : SEA

Report Result : Report on Sponsor Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/neolutionEsport)

Race : Every Race including Random and allowed to switch races

Disconnect : If there is a disconnect in the first 3 minutes of the game and there has been no contact between players, then the game will be restarted. After this time, the match should be re-gamed unless one player had a great advantage.

Pausing/Unpausing : Players may pause and resume only with permission from their opponent.

Status : Players must set their battle.net status to busy while playing a game.

Referees/Spectators :
- Observers are allowed only manager of both team and caster

Replacing Players : If some player in team can’t play please told Admin to change player before match start around 30 minute if not, the match will be walkover.

Participating Countries:
7 Invited teams based on number of sc2 players in the nation, strength of sc2 players and past performances.
Australia
Singapore
New Zealand
Thailand
Philippines
China
Taiwan

1 Open Qualifier Spot for the other SEA countries.
Hong Kong, Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia

Prize pool: $1200 USD !!
1) $700
2) $300
3) $200

Special Hardware Prize 1: Tournament MVP [Roccat Item]
Special Hardware Prize 2: People's MVP (Voted, not allowed to vote your own countrymen) [Roccat Item]

Sponsor Info:


http://www.neolutiongroup.com




For those of you new to the scene or sc2sea and have no idea what the nation wars is here's a quick history lesson!

+ [The King of SEA - Nation Wars Season 1] +

Back in the day when Starcraft 2 was first launched and when dinosaurs were still eating your children - a time before sc2sea.com even existed *GASP!*, there lived a mythical creature named deL. This unique creature was half-man half-troll, for he could at one moment be an extremely contributive member of the community but at the very next morph into a hybrid of uncletom's butt, aean's toe and kringe's right arm on steroids. Fortunately for us, in one of his more lucid moments he came up with a brilliant idea of having a Nation Wars tournament for the SEA region. This tournament would pit the best countries on the SEA server against each other in a league style format, with games being cast live every week. This is the very tournament which established SEA superstars such as mOOnGLaDe & RedArchon as the names you know today, as well as breathing life to a new breed of mutants whom we now call "casters". Seasoned veterans like Unstable, kelly, mezza, Hdphoenix, navi and tenz we silly newbies back then with 640x resolutions who started casting for the first time!

Anyway, after coming out with the format, rules and announcements deL pulled out at the last minute saying the tournament was unable to proceed as he had other commitments and would not have the time to manage it. This is where nirvAnA for the first time in a long while decided to put on his organising boots once again, and took over the running of the league. With the help of the dedicated nation team leaders, over the next 2 months a widely successful Starcraft 2 event for the SEA region was held. Somewhere during this time, on 14th Sep to be exact, sc2sea.com was born! (ok sidetracked!) Anyway, the winner of the tournament came down to an exciting Ace match on the final play day where Australia (which could potentially be tied with Singapore) spurred on by mOOnGLaDe managed to defeat NZ 3-2 in a thrilling ace match against Kowi.

A look back at the final standings of Season 1.

At that point of time the community was much smaller, sc2sea.com did not exist, and people were just playing for fun and pride but we still had an awesome time! For season 2 we have a $1,200 USD prize pool, we are supported by our ever growing community at sc2sea.com and with the Asian powerhouses Taiwan and China been thrown into the mix, things are only going to be bigger, better and more exciting this time around!

King Of SEA Nation War League S1
Intro, Rules, Fixtures
Team Rosters & Early Season Interviews
End of Season Player Statistics

Recap, Results, Replays
Week 1 - SGvsNZ, PHvsVN, THvsIDD
Week 2 - AUvsPH, NZvsID, SGvsVN
Week 3 - SGvsPH, THvsAU, VNvsID
Week 4 - NZvsTH, SGvsID, AUvsVN
Week 5 - NZvsVN, THvsPH, SGvsAU
Week 6 - AUvsID, NZvsPH, SGvsTH
Week 7 - IDvsPH, THvsVN, AUvsNZ

Lastly, don't forget to give your feedback for the event/format/teams by posting in the thread!

[LennX]

History lessons is lulz worthy enough. Mythical creature indeed.

[jump]

thx for ur help nirvana
any update I will post in here

[TAdeL2]

I think I am 100% troll but just look like a man, like Loki from the Thor movie.

Look forward to a NationWar again, great work securing a sponsor! I think done right it has the potential to get a lot of interest, especially with TW and Chinese viewers tuning in to see how their countrymen fare, so the sponsors should be happy!

Most teams have gained a lot of depth, though I think the Bo3 format favours Australia and China (if their top lineup with xiaOt, Loner, etc. participate) over teams with one big ace player like NZ. Will do my best to take out China and prove Aus is the force to be reckoned with in this part of the world!

[Azure]

wow nice always like watching these

[EveRorschach]

looks like fun, great prize pool!

[cRSenSei]

looking forward to aus vs china

[TAdeL2]

Will there be a subforum again this season? It made forming the team so much easier.

[deL]

I think New Zealand will be the dark horse this tournament. With Kowi, JazBas and Soft their lineup could easily take out any of the favourites.

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by deL

I think New Zealand will be the dark horse this tournament. With Kowi, JazBas and Soft their lineup could easily take out any of the favourites.

If they survive the earthquakes till game day

OH NO I DIDN'T


disclaimer: My apologies if anyone of you were actually heavily affected by the earthquakes

if you were only slightly affected however, harden the **** up

[ETL.Santi]

China? I thought they played in another server.

Are Colombians allowed in AU team del?

[pRoTimber]

i think this time around u should be stricter regarding an individual eligibility to represent a nation.

[NvJazBas]

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

i think this time around u should be stricter regarding an individual eligibility to represent a nation.

I can scan my passport of me having NZ citizenship o_o

[Benji]

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

i think this time around u should be stricter regarding an individual eligibility to represent a nation.

I agree, we should go back 3 generations to ensure the players backgrounds are native to the country they are representing.

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:	LOL!
	JacziE:	lolololol

[deL]

Originally Posted by Benji

I agree, we should go back 3 generations to ensure the players backgrounds are native to the country they are representing.

Good idea, I may revive the White Australia Policy for the national team...

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

i think this time around u should be stricter regarding an individual eligibility to represent a nation.

Yeah it would be pretty tragic if Malaysia lost 0-5 instead of 1-4 just because ethnic Asians can play for their country.

[deL]

If any Colombians get good at SC2 I'll let you know.

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

i think this time around u should be stricter regarding an individual eligibility to represent a nation.

I can't really think of any cases where this would be necessary except for TargA.

[pRoTimber]

i dunno any particular cases as i dunno who have citizenship or not, but just highlighting what i see is similar problem with the seacl

[ETL.Santi]

Yeah well Australia has a lot of students but players most of them are citizens. There should be a special rule for international students.

[Wawa]

alright!!!! finally!!! it has been.... so long!!!!

[ShinyA]

Is it based on citizenship?

[jump]

prize pool has changed

I will told nirvana to update

><

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

ty jump! sick new prize pool whoaaaa!!

[nirvAnA]

Updated prize pool!

Looks like Jump has found two amazing sponsors (which i can't announce yet till everything is confirmed)

Also to deL, yes there will be a nation wars sub-form soon, along with a news post when everything is confirmed. As for the citizen issue, perhaps non-citizens can only represent the country they are living in if they have lived in it for over 5 years. Does that sound fair enough? Honestly, the only person i see the rule affecting who would make the national team is TargA for Australia.

All the other "foreigners" in AU/NZ schools like mafia/yoon/soft/jaz have been living there for a very long time already so that is not an issue.

[mGMUSE]

1v1 bo3 format = bad :<

[deL]

Originally Posted by mGMUSE

1v1 bo3 format = bad :<

For Singapore.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by deL

For Singapore.

We've each got more than one all-in, don't worry.

[deL]

Originally Posted by Xeen

We've each got more than one all-in, don't worry.

Sorry you can't say "we". You fail Timber's 3 generation nationality check.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by deL

Sorry you can't say "we". You fail Timber's 3 generation nationality check.

I have something like 6 different things if you go back that far, that's not fair.

[Wawa]

Originally Posted by mGMUSE

1v1 bo3 format = bad :<

What's wrong with it?

I think its actually the best for these kinds of stuff.

[Canx]

Man season 1 was so awesome, can't wait for season 2!

[Fourby]

NICE i cant wait!

epic prize pool too haha

[TargA]

i can forge an aus passport if its needed

Quick Comments

	EveRorschach:	commitment right there
	TAEdgE:
	TAriiChard:
	deL:	Why would you need to do that you're Aussie remember >_> Your name is Bruce not Kristoffer

[mGMUSE]

honestly, all trolling aside, a bo3 1v1 format lacks deeply in terms of viewership retention & excitement level as well as teamwork when compared to the GSTL all-kill format.

the gstl format also allows for cleaner organization, all games to be played at a particular time instead of 'hey muse you're playing wild just pm him anytime this week k'.

i hope the organizers will reconsider!

[Benji]

Originally Posted by mGMUSE

honestly, all trolling aside, a bo3 1v1 format lacks deeply in terms of viewership retention & excitement level as well as teamwork when compared to the GSTL all-kill format.

the gstl format also allows for cleaner organization, all games to be played at a particular time instead of 'hey muse you're playing wild just pm him anytime this week k'.

i hope the organizers will reconsider!

Also benefits teams that have a single great player (Australia/Glade) that can get 2-3 kills in a Bo7 over teams that have great depth of skill (Australia) that have many top players that can all contribute.

Quick Comments

TAkrunch:

[Xeen]

Both styles have pros/cons.

GSTL format requires less team depth, allowing one-man teams to win games. It favors 'general skill' more since you can't prepare for specific maps as much, and usually provides more excitement and tension. You have to play the entire series at once, though, which can be troublesome.

Standard formats usually create higher-quality games because maps and matchups can be specifically prepared for, but there's less tension because the set is more isolated. Scheduling is easier, of course. Teams with greater depth are rewarded for obvious reasons, and that also means more different players are often sent out.

Both formats allow for a lot of participation from the manager, either for selecting someone to take out the oppositing winner (GSTL), or setting players to map selections (the bo3s should absolutely have varying map pools) to gain edges, or catch who they expect the other team to send out there.

In summary, I present an irrelevant piece of information. People like watching GSTL format more, but the vast majority of Starcraft teamleagues are played as individual sets from a lineup.

[Wawa]

i agree with benji.
a bo3 1v1 format will even out the teams more or at least give 1 Team a bo3 win which actually feels better than getting one kill.
also, both teams get to put in most if not all of the players that are scheduled to play that day.

and i don't think the organizers will allow matches to be settled in an earlier date coz matches will be streamed.
unless i guess if both teams agree to it.

[deL]

With GSTL "all-kill" format players might show up and wait around for a couple of hours and then find out they don't get a game. Also if mOOnGLaDe all-kills every team he is gonna be pissed when he only gets 10% of the prize like everyone else, but everyone else is gonna be pissed if GLaDe gets most of the prize because they still turned up on time and waited around for a game.

I think this format is fine, teams with depth and teams with just 1-2 ace players have good chances. For people who think there's less 'team spirit' you're wrong as this is a tried and tested team league format for many differemt games and the team will get behind it just as much as any other format.

Quick Comments

ToRDeathsFang:

I don't think i've ever seen anyone stutter on a forum before. "I this this" lololol

[ShinyA]

I like the all-kill format more. You are saying that moonglade will just all-kill everyone, but if a team who knows they have to play AUS and moonglade is the best player then they should prepare for him and have a plan to take him out. If they can't then they shouldn't win the CW anyways imo.

Also, it's a lot more fun to watch an all-kill tournament. Seeing more of a nations strongest player is just more exciting.and it also gives people who aren't so known to go in and beat someone like moonglade. Just like the GSTL when you see someone who isn't even qualified for GSL come in and beat top names they automatically get fans and get known.

Plus, as someone who's competed in countless different types of clan war formats over the years, all kill is my favorite. Even if I don't get to play, and the same for the people on my team when we get an all kill, it's still awesome. I don't think I've ever heard anyone get angry because we're winning a cw. you're always going to be rooting for your teammate, or in this case countryman! to win and when he does it gives you a sense of pride, definitely not anger or jealousy :P

Just my input !~

[Benji]

Originally Posted by MensA

I like the all-kill format more. You are saying that moonglade will just all-kill everyone, but if a team who knows they have to play AUS and moonglade is the best player then they should prepare for him and have a plan to take him out. If they can't then they shouldn't win the CW anyways imo.

And then you prepare hard for Glade, and end up losing 0-4 to Azz/YYJ/deth/Edge/Light/iaguz/PiG. This format allows you to prepare whoever is playing Glade however you like, but also gives the other 4 players opponants they also need to prepare for. Also, its Bo3. Bo3 is better Than Bo1.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

oh god that au lineup sounds so scary

[deL]

Keep in mind with all-kill we run into a similar problem with Taiwan and China. xiaOt or SEn are just going to all-kill every non-Australia team and probably all-kill Aus too. That will really kill the feeling of 'SEA nationwar league'.

[TAEdgE]

Should run each for a half a season.

[jump]

First,I need 2 caster for this tournament (English speak) - 1 caster per group

and in every games,caster has to promote sponsor website at start game

Last,Sponsor need to promote their's facebook so captain in each country have to report result at facebook.

thx everyone
I think it not hard for u all that sponsor want

[Xeen]

If you hold this when I'm actually in Singapore, I should be involved in the casting. As I am not technically from SEA, nobody can be more impartial (or collectively disdainful) than me.

[deL]

Second Xeen as a caster he is like sex for your ears.

[Edrahil]

I vote for Xeen too!

[jump]

i heard xeen + benji is perfect caster ?

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by jump

i heard xeen + benji is perfect caster ?

We do our best.

[Stallion]

id give a vote for xeen benji too as i find them highly enjoyable to listen to and watch ^^

[DeNile]

Wow this sounds like an awesome concept, that thanks to some hard work form some individuals succeeded even with out the support of sc2sea forum base. Looking forward to following skilled players of the sea region fight for the glory of there nation.

All the ppl running this are just awesome.

[jump]

China Line up players

Captain:
ccm.gomax

Players:
ccm.xigua
ccm.macsed
ccm.comm
ccm.xiaot
we.lovett
we.loner
we.lovecd
tyloo.lengmo
tyloo.tmduhen
va.yhy
va.syc
F91

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	OMG! And i thought australia's lineup was scary!
	cRSenSei:	this will be fun ;)

[nGenWild]

1v1 Bo3, is likely that better player win.
I reckon it should be Bo1 with an acematch at the end, just like BW Proleague.
It makes it more interesting and results will be more unpredictable.
Think of it this way, its team game, team should be counted as ONE and each team plays Bo5 each other so 4 1v1 bo1s with ace match with pre determined maps/times by admins.
And we alrdy got SEACL for winners league style so yeaaaaa.
but bo3 is fine too^.^ just thought bo1 would make games more interesting.

[deL]

Originally Posted by nGenWild

1v1 Bo3, is likely that better player win.
I reckon it should be Bo1 with an acematch at the end, just like BW Proleague.

Why does it not surprise me that you want a format that means the better player is less likely to win.

Jokes aside, you have to consider that the sponsors want the event to run longer and get more exposure, a Bo1 format would be a little bit underwhelming for the prizemoney they are putting up for us.

BTW do any of the Chinese players speak English? Really strong lineup, as I predicted :P

[Homer]

Tastosis would be better!

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

unrealistic. and they won't have the knowledge of the players our casters have

[deL]

I am sure one guest caster could be arranged, if we brief them on player histories - a team like Aus has a lot of info available on liquipedia about the team history and players!

[Homer]

Originally Posted by deL

I am sure one guest caster could be arranged, if we brief them on player histories - a team like Aus has a lot of info available on liquipedia about the team history and players!

You could always persuade Wolf to do it? ^^

[Thunder]

I favour BW standard proleague format too. But instead of 5xBo1 have 7xBo1 (proleague finals format).

Bo1 format favours preparation which makes for interesting builds and is more exciting than a Bo3 format (seeing someone get roflstomped by Glade/Sen twice in a row is not exciting).

But having up to 6 (even 7) different players play each week also rewards a deep team like Aus/China to counteract the 'cheese' effect. Not only that but as an audience we get exposed to more different players on SEA (always a good thing) and the players themselves will more likely get a game each week. The weaker players on the team will get more than 1 token match against the cellerdwellers.

Also with Bo3 a match could potentially drag on for 15 games and will usually average around 10 games. I don't have that kind of attention span and would only tune in for NZ games in that format.

With 7xBo1 you always have between 4 and 7 games (instead of 6-15) making scheduling more reliable for casters, players and viewers.

I hope the organisers and sponsors seriously consider this league format. It is better for viewers, casters and (usually) the players also.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	thanks for sharing this is indeed an interesting format for consideration
	deL:	Poo format ;(

[deL]

Originally Posted by Thunder

I favour BW standard proleague format too. But instead of 5xBo1 have 7xBo1 (proleague finals format).

Bo1 format favours preparation which makes for interesting builds and is more exciting than a Bo3 format (seeing someone get roflstomped by Glade/Sen twice in a row is not exciting).

But having up to 6 (even 7) different players play each week also rewards a deep team like Aus/China to counteract the 'cheese' effect. Not only that but as an audience we get exposed to more different players on SEA (always a good thing) and the players themselves will more likely get a game each week. The weaker players on the team will get more than 1 token match against the cellerdwellers.

Also with Bo3 a match could potentially drag on for 15 games and will usually average around 10 games. I don't have that kind of attention span and would only tune in for NZ games in that format.

With 7xBo1 you always have between 4 and 7 games (instead of 6-15) making scheduling more reliable for casters, players and viewers.

I hope the organisers and sponsors seriously consider this league format. It is better for viewers, casters and (usually) the players also.

If no one wants to see GLaDe roflstomp someone 2-0 and then have 3-4 other competitive matches then they certainly won't want to see GLaDe roflstomp someone 1-0 and then have another 2 matches where the opponents are completely outclassed because the country is already lacking for depth even with just 5 competitiors.

I think Bo3 coutneracts the 'cheese' effect enough. Cheese is exciting in a bo3 format as the underdog takes a game off the big names. When it's Bo1 you are just left feeling cheated as your ace player only gets 1 game and they get cheesed and it would get repetitive. Bo1 will probably also lower the quality of the games across the board.

Bo3s are also easier to schedule. Instead of having 7 team members waiting around for 2-3 hours you can say OK each Bo3 is going to be 30-60mins or so depending on the matchup and downtime between picking maps so if a player plays last you can let them know they can turn up a little later if necessary.

I think having more players also means walkovers are more likely and nothing takes the buzz out of a team league like walkovers.

Regarding viewers, it can be shown that they grow over time. The number of viewers who will be from New Zealand or whatever country is participating is going to be quite a low percentage of the total viewers for the event. Sure the two dozen NZ viewers might only watch the NZ games but the 1000+ internationals will want to stay for the whole thing and reducing the number of games will mean viewers probably won't climb over a couple hundred at most.

If you want to see more players compete or have some short and sweet matches, organise a B-team competition to run parallel to the main event, with it's own casters and teams in a smaller, bo1 format just to increase participation and as a fan service to the SC2SEA community members who miss out.

Originally Posted by TargA

Too bad u guys wont let me play, I was china slayer in wc3!

http://www.sk-gaming.com/match/5928

Organise a Norway clan war with some SEA nations as an opener to this event! We all have NA access and the delay from SEA-->NA and EU-->NA should mean it's a very fair/neutral server for such a NW :P

Originally Posted by Homer

You could always persuade Wolf to do it? ^^

He is busy enough as it is! There are lots of NA based casters who would love to feature in one or more casts though - perhaps for the finals?

[Xeen]

I agree the BW format is nice and I'd prefer to see more bo1s just to show off more players, but the concern I have is the more sets you have (bo7 instead of bo5) means the more people have to be on standby at a given time if you want to cast live. If you're casting replays (nobody wants to cast replays) it's moot.

[TargA]

Too bad u guys wont let me play, I was china slayer in wc3!

http://www.sk-gaming.com/match/5928

[jump]

I think bo3 is better than bo1 because that show really skill u have

Quick Comments

deL:

your post show really smart u have

[Eddie]

I'd like to see BO3's

[jump]

I have some suggestion.
First at group play we play 1x1 for 5 players with bo3.
Next,for semi final and final we play 1x1 for 8 players with bo1 if draw play ace match (best player) with best of 3

[nGenWild]

omg, i just wrote essay and its all gone lol
simply...
what im saying, team should be treated as one player, so it will be bunch of bo1 of 5games or 7games. So its will be bo5,7 match between teams so better teams will win anyway BUT with more interesting/unpredictable results.

And i dnt knw wat u mean by "Why does it not surprise me that you want a format that means the better player is less likely to win." Del.
You seem to hate me much but I'm just making suggestion here and Ill probably not play in this nation war since i barely played this game in last month.
but yes, i agree with sponsor thingy since matches will be much shortened.
Bo3 in each set should be fine too but yeaa this is just my thought.

This will be my last post~~ gl organising, looking forward to this event~

[Eiduart]

Yeah wild pretty much sums it up.

Watching a team league with best of 3 without an all kill format, feels like watching a 1v1 tourney, it is not as interesting/exciting as all kill / bw format.

[deL]

This isn't ClanLeague it's NW league. We already have a CL where there is all-kill and Bo1 let's make the NW more epic. Would be lame to represent your entire country's StarCraft 2 skill in like 4-5 games.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by deL

This isn't ClanLeague it's NW league. We already have a CL where there is all-kill and Bo1 let's make the NW more epic. Would be lame to represent your entire country's StarCraft 2 skill in like 4-5 games.

What wild is trying to get at, and explain about the BW Proleague format, is that it's not bo1 - it's bo7 with 7 (6+ace) different players. Rather than averaging the skill of two individuals and comparing it via bo3, you're comparing the skill of the entire team through bo7s. Part of the skill of teamleagues is preparing lineups, practicing certain matchups, and exploiting the fact that each player can only contribute once.

A lot of the 'epic' of proleague is because of the fact each player only has one contributing game to the team, resulting in extremely high-tension situations.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

if only everyone could voice their opions well like this :)

[deL]

Originally Posted by Xeen

What wild is trying to get at, and explain about the BW Proleague format, is that it's not bo1 - it's bo7 with 7 (6+ace) different players. Rather than averaging the skill of two individuals and comparing it via bo3, you're comparing the skill of the entire team through bo7s. Part of the skill of teamleagues is preparing lineups, practicing certain matchups, and exploiting the fact that each player can only contribute once.

A lot of the 'epic' of proleague is because of the fact each player only has one contributing game to the team, resulting in extremely high-tension situations.

I understood what he means, but still reject it. Bo3 is just as exciting everyone just has this idea in their head that because it's bo1 it's more exciting - turning a game around from 0-1 down against an opponent you are favoured against, or the game going 1-1 to a deciding match, etc. is just as exciting as watching good players get cheesed out every game.

I still think requiring 7 players is going to result in some walkovers which kills any excitement there was anyway.

Originally Posted by Xeen

I'm going to give a concise example:

MMA vs MC, GSTL game 7 betwen oGs and SlayerS. MC in a series at that time is heavily favored. Yet the game was incredibly exciting because it was so pivotal, and because MMA pulled out all the stops to clinch a win.

Spectators don't want to see the superior player get lots of chances to conservatively clean up. They want to see underdogs come out and try to pull something wild to upset their superior opponent, while the set is still not a disappointing league upset because it's bo7 team vs team.

Individual leagues and team leagues both give multiple games per set to fairly decide the better competitor. Similarly, like a single player might have many strategies to select for their games, a team has different players to send out. Same concept, larger scale - and Proleague has always run effectively on the system.

That's not to say the bo5 of bo3s doesn't work, but I'd definitely argue it lacks the same degree of spectator appeal.

Spectators only wanna see upsets? Really? I'd say a bigger pull is seeing the best of the best but OK. I know all-kill format etc can be exciting but we have events like the GSTL clone to fill this niche of team competition. These NationWars only come around once in a while and should be more epic than your standard clan comps, not just some cheap thrills made by making the format more conducive to cheesing.

Also like I said, you will probably find that Bo7 is actually going to make MORE one-sided games as the depth of weaker teams is stretched.

In the end it's the sponsor's call about how long they want their tourney to be streamed anyway.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by deL

Spectators only wanna see upsets?

You missed part of my point, which is that bo1s create higher-tension situations and games, while in the context of a bo7 team match, don't render everything down to luck the way some might imagine. The players get one shot, but the team gets four, and this is about the depth of the entire team rather than the individual.

As I brought up, a lot of the depth of team matches is in lineup preparation, sniping, and creating asymetrical matchups. A lot of this is lost if you bo3 every set of players, because sniping or preparing builds becomes dramatically less important.

What I do agree with is that bo7 potentially means teams can't field enough players, but bo3'ing every matchup creates such a sheer number of potential games that there can be scheduling issues there as well. Don't say 'we'll just cast replays', because nobody ever wants to cast replays.

[deL]

Originally Posted by Xeen

You missed part of my point, which is that bo1s create higher-tension situations and games, while in the context of a bo7 team match, don't render everything down to luck the way some might imagine. The players get one shot, but the team gets four, and this is about the depth of the entire team rather than the individual.

As I brought up, a lot of the depth of team matches is in lineup preparation, sniping, and creating asymetrical matchups. A lot of this is lost if you bo3 every set of players, because sniping or preparing builds becomes dramatically less important.

What I do agree with is that bo7 potentially means teams can't field enough players, but bo3'ing every matchup creates such a sheer number of potential games that there can be scheduling issues there as well. Don't say 'we'll just cast replays', because nobody ever wants to cast replays.

I stil Bo3s still create the same tension, as there are still 'match point' scenarios where one player is up a game or they are 1-1.

I think you're overstating the lineup preparation and 'sniping'. Most of the players won't be well enough known and aside from where the players share teammates in the opposing nation's team only very general styles will be known or practiced for. It certainly comes in to play but there's a point where putting a lot of effort into it doesn't really reap any significant reward.

While preparing a build may become less important in Bo3, the maps and player choices as well as lineup are going to become more important. Even this is arguable as you still have to guess the lineup correctly out of a 7 possible maps so how much you can practice to snipe a specific player is in doubt. Also I don't know how you think having Bo3 will make asymmetrical matchups any harder lol.

I also like the team aspect of talking or coaching between matches and it really makes it feel like the team is working together. After losing game 1 getting in to a chat with the rest of the team and discussing with them what went wrong and the best choices for next map is a lot of fun and an important part of a lot of real-world sports. While this doesn't affect the viewers so much it is something I'd miss a lot as a participant - if the players and managers feel like they are part of a team that is going to reflect in the feel of tournament and games more than any format will.

Also I don't get why you are talking to me about scheduling issues, like I said you can get the last 2 players in the lineup to turn up an hour later than the first few players so there's a lot less waiting time if it ends up being an issue. The sponsor has put up a lot of money the players ought to act professionally and ensure they can play at the time agreed, if not for the cash then for the team.

The other extreme regarding the schedule could be a problem too. With 7 x Bo1 we could see the whole NW end in just over an hour which aside from being a lame spectacle is insufficient exposure for the sponsors (face it we have to consider this if we want our events to be taken seriously, and stop feeling like we earn sponsor's money without effort). Also it reduces flexibility as I remember last NW League we had players specifically request to be put up later in the match so they had time to get back from work or social events or whatever.

[Wawa]

what's the tentative date this will start?

[NvJazBas]

BO1 is more interesting to watch(tension!)
BO3 is more "fair" (better player will win kind of thing)

If I was a viewer, I'd want BO1s as it creates much more tension and viewers are one of, if not the biggest part of esports.

BO1 have better chance of showing "upsets" and this is always an exciting stuff. And just because it's BO1, it doesn't mean that the "ace" player will always get cheesed. The opponent can always play mindgames or he can be someone who is not very well known but very great in skillwise. And as I always thought, starcraft2 isn't macrocraft. Cheese is part of the game and holding some crazy cheese is just as exciting as watching a good macro game.(Not if every single game is cheesing after cheesing).

So yeah if I can have a say, I'll go with Wild's proleague format thing.

Just my thoughts!

[Xeen]

I'm going to give a concise example:

MMA vs MC, GSTL game 7 betwen oGs and SlayerS. MC in a series at that time is heavily favored. Yet the game was incredibly exciting because it was so pivotal, and because MMA pulled out all the stops to clinch a win.

Spectators don't want to see the superior player get lots of chances to conservatively clean up. They want to see underdogs come out and try to pull something wild to upset their superior opponent, while the set is still not a disappointing league upset because it's bo7 team vs team.

Individual leagues and team leagues both give multiple games per set to fairly decide the better competitor. Similarly, like a single player might have many strategies to select for their games, a team has different players to send out. Same concept, larger scale - and Proleague has always run effectively on the system.

That's not to say the bo5 of bo3s doesn't work, but I'd definitely argue it lacks the same degree of spectator appeal.

[pRoTimber]

Qualifier Match : 26 July 2011
26th is tuesday, can this be done on the weekend?

[jump]

Originally Posted by pRoTimber

Qualifier Match : 26 July 2011
26th is tuesday, can this be done on the weekend?

sry Timber that's my bad I'm wrong type ><" that 23 July (at numpad 3 close to 6 sryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy)

[pRoTimber]

Originally Posted by jump

sry Timber that's my bad I'm wrong type ><" that 23 July (at numpad 3 close to 6 sryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy)

thanks for the clarification jump, when will the new announcement be out? are all the info about the league in this thread finalised?

[jump]

About Match day format:

anyone agree with me If change it to KOF 7 players bo1?

it's better?

any idea?

because I think semi/final 7players bo3 take time so long ;s and when captain pick player have more fun

Quick Comments

mGMUSE:

i like it

[Wawa]

Originally Posted by jump

About Match day format:

anyone agree with me If change it to KOF 7 players bo1?

it's better?

any idea?

because I think semi/final 7players bo3 take time so long ;s and when captain pick player have more fun

i do not aggree with this for reasons that has been stated by del and benji(?).

even though it has some good points, it's gonna be annoying for players to be on hold for a while and might not even get the chance to play on that day.

[deL]

I'd like to see the 2 x Bo5 format (over 2 days on a weekend) for the finals. Do the regular 5 players in Bo3 on Day 1, and the same again on Day 2 with any mix of players (can use the same ones, different players, or a bit of both for the 2 days). Total aggregate score over the 2 days wins, and if it's 5-5 you go to Super Ace.

I think Korean BW ProLeague used a similar format for their finals and it works out awesome without the potential let-down of all-kill / KOF format where you get a bunch of one-sided matches.

Also it gives the opportunity to see more than just the top 4/5 players without running too long for the casters, admins and players on either day. And even a one-sided victory on day-1 is possible to come back from to keep it exciting.

[Wawa]

i just realized that the OP was updated.

Was just wondering about the Timeline.
It Says 6pm SG Time. Does that mean that all matches should be played around that time? or can managers of both teams still agree on a certain time more suited for both sides?
Also, it is added in the OP that Group A plays on Saturdays while Group B Plays on Sundays. Will this be absolute or can managers still talk about a date they can agree on?


I also want to add that i will be streaming the matches for Team PH as well and if any other matches would like to be streamed.

[iM tgun]

Did you put match days right in the middle of MLG? (Match 1)

[nirvAnA]

wawa i believe 6pm is the default time if teams cant agree and if its a non-casted match

thanks for bringing that up tgun, we havent finalised the exact timeline so we will probably look into changing it not to clash with major events

[Wawa]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

wawa i believe 6pm is the default time if teams cant agree and if its a non-casted match

thanks for bringing that up tgun, we havent finalised the exact timeline so we will probably look into changing it not to clash with major events

tnx. and yeah that weekend is already pretty busy.
MLG Anaheim and GSL Finals I think.

[jump]

about About Match day format:

All match will played bo3 with 5 players including semi final and rank3
but for Final round
we will played in 2 Day with 4players bo3 per day and differendt players (If draw go to ace match with best players) so I have to change about date
- Semi Final : 20 August 2011
- Rank 3 : 21 August 2011
- Rank 1 (Day 1) : 27 August 2011
- Rank 1 (Day 2) : 28 August 2011



last,for all managers pls pm ur email to me for contacts thx a lot !

[jump]

Hi everyone ~

I'm looking for caster on this sunday 24 July (Qualifier Match)

who interesting to cast or any suggest


thx

[Wawa]

Hello!
Just wanna ask about the format.

So its 5 sets of Bo3's right?
So for example, if Team A 3-0's Team B, will the last two sets still be played out?
Or is it like last time where 4 sets are gonna be played and 5th one is only needed when there's a tie?

[jump]

5 players have to play if team A 3-0 keep continue to play for 5-0 or 4-1 or 3-2

we will have a great match in SEA Nation war#2 ^_^

[Wawa]

Awesome! Yeah it should be fun.

BTW, what time do you need the casters for the qualifier finals on Sunday?
If it's between 6pm-9pm SG time I think I can do it if no one else is available.

[jump]

start on 5pm but I'm not sure when has end because they have to play 2 match