[TACosmic]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

I have tried streaming in past but my internet upload is not good enough since moving to new house. sigh.. T.T

Requesting speedtest.net results please.

http://speedtest.net/

[CHoBo(kice)]

Watching replay myself. I drop marines at fourth second time after denying first time. I lost almost all these marines to lings....

this would be stupid if i could see there was lings there right?

or you gonna say I did it on purpose now or something lol

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Because I know mafia's style, I have played several games against him before. In fact I was worried one game which I was scanning more than regularly because I wasn't sure what he was up to.

Quote me when you're talking to me.

Also, your reply is really vague and you don't really say any specifics.

How can 'knowing mafia's style' mean you don't scan at any other time in any other games, only the ones where a spire is being built and only during the construction of the spire.

"you were worried one game and scanning more regularly"

Can you specify which game this was? Because the only games where there were scans in TvZ was when you double scanned Mafia on Shakuras Plateau and also the scan on Ohana.

Quick Comments

CHoBo(kice):

obviously the game with more than one scan, no common sense?

[Rage]

Can we tone down the obvious hostility here from the people accusing Chobo??

Watch the replays. Do your analysis. But cut out the personal attacks, and cut out the subtle hostility - it only undermines the points you are trying to make.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	Chappo:
	Pox:
	FvRphoneheha:
	Zealo:

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by Rage

Can we tone down the obvious hostility here from the people accusing Chobo??

Watch the replays. Do your analysis. But cut out the personal attacks, and cut out the subtle hostility - it only undermines the points you are trying to make.

What are you talking about? Apart from the random people trying to troll in the thread aka targa, noone is being rude or name calling.

We are just bringing up situations we think are suspicious and are giving chobo a chance to explain himself.

[Peleus]

Seriously Chobo, can you please start addressing specific points raised by numerous people in the thread? So far they have been one line comments about games not addressing anything or other vague remarks. Especially considering you were going to "respond to everyone".

I know for sure if someone accused me of hacking I'd have my entire season's worth of replays uploaded and answering specific points anyone raised as soon as humanly possible.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	syfPhoenix:

[VB_Rhuubarb]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Some of the people in this thread are starting to annoy me. If you read my original analysis posts I clearly stated the replays that the things I am talking about are in.

You can DL all of Chobo's maters cup games from sc2sea.

The random look at the main and the 'pull back of the century' are both from the Mafia vs chobo game on Shakuras.

And in the second quote i clearly said which games I was referring to.

"all his TvZ replays" refers to the replays of Chobo on sc2sea.

I meant that if you had a significant number of games (not 3) that showed what you suggested, it would help you persuade others to believe you, not just preach to the choir.

Saying, "go find them for yourself" won't persuade people who don't already have formed opinions on whether Chobo is a hacker.

BTW, I'm talking specifically about your scan-timings-only-on-spires theory.

[Rage]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

What are you talking about? Apart from the random people trying to troll in the thread aka targa, noone is being rude or name calling.

We are just bringing up situations we think are suspicious and are giving chobo a chance to explain himself.

Uh, just as an example, your post immediately above?

Quote me when you're talking to me.

It sounds like you're addressing a petulant child. That's not the tone to take if you're trying to be constructive.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	ROOTPetraeus:	good guy rage
	Zealo:	rofl

[Rage]

Here's my replays vs Chobo from mid January

http://drop.sc/191786


http://drop.sc/191785

[CHoBo(kice)]

I just try and keep up with the newer stuff posted. It is quite hard to keep up with that let alone go back to the older posts.

[Peleus]

Well I'd start with this - http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=664

Because imo it's the most damning piece of evidence against you.

[TAXanT]

Originally Posted by Peleus

Seriously Chobo, can you please start addressing specific points raised by numerous people in the thread? So far they have been one line comments about games not addressing anything or other vague remarks. Especially considering you were going to "respond to everyone".

I know for sure if someone accused me of hacking I'd have my entire season's worth of replays uploaded and answering specific points anyone raised as soon as humanly possible.

What i pretty much wanted to say, Rossi & Mafia have clearly spent a decent amount of time going over these replays to help build their evidence of your suspicious 'playing style'. The least you can do is explain your side of the story which you have not yet done, you've just been picking out irrelevant posts in the topic and given far from reasonable answers.

You're being accused of hacking. You've obviously spent a shitload of time playing this game given your GM status. I just can't comprehend why you aren't agressively defending yourself if all these accusations have no weight behind them.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	mGGDaedalus:
	Champi:

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by Rage

It sounds like you're addressing a petulant child. That's not the tone to take if you're trying to be constructive.

You don't know the tone of my voice when I'm saying something like that.

But yes, I should have said "Please quote people when you respond to their answers to prevent confusion"

It is starting to get annoying though because he isn't really replying to anything.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[AxSGRiM]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

btw a very similar situation is going on at TL as well.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=342248

here is their mod message, which basically echoes what i have been trying to say in my posts, which targa has interpreted wrongly as me defending him

Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.

Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.


And here is a relevant post from TT1 on the gravity of hack accusations

if theres no concrete proof of him hacking then the OP deserves to be banned for life because this is the worse thing that u can do to a player, i still didnt get a chance to look over the posts/replays but if its true then spades's professional career is pretty much fucked and even if hes not hacking the damage has been done to his image, tournament organizers will never invite him to a showmatch after seeing something like this

dont post threads like this unless ur 100% sure that u have concrete evidence(i.e: ingame action proofs), u can suspect someone of hacking through gameplay alone but thats not enought evidence, its just a good starting point to start a case against someone

edit: and if ur going to accuse someone of hacking through gameplay ur going to have to analyse more than 7 replays, even if he looks like the biggest hacker in those 7 games its not a big enought sample. u need to analyse like ~100 replays

You know in the end TT1 said that he was a map hacker right? (Spades)

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

that's irrelevant, the point is that chobo's career and image is already permanently affected

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by VB_Rhuubarb

I meant that if you had a significant number of games (not 3) that showed what you suggested, it would help you persuade others to believe you, not just preach to the choir.

Saying, "go find them for yourself" won't persuade people who don't already have formed opinions on whether Chobo is a hacker.

BTW, I'm talking specifically about your scan-timings-only-on-spires theory.

Well, I developed the spires theory from all the replays that Chobo played in the masters cup and the replay vs Peleus. I can only analyse the replays that are available, there are no others. You can't count the random replays that chobo himself uploaded.

Also, I never said 'go find them for yourself'. All the masters cup replays that everyone in this thread is talking about are all in the sc2sea replays thread.
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php
So there is no need for me to explain where to find these replays.

I explain which replay I am referring to in every post i make.

[xGKingdelete]

I'm going through this replay and analysing for chobo's benefit, because if he tried to explain himself it would be shut down immediately by everyone. I'm personally undecided if he's hacking or not.

Originally Posted by iM Mafia

Just made a video of my rep analysis for those who are too lazy to download and rewatch the rep themselves. This is of Chobo and Enderr

it's about 30 mins long, so theres alot of random bits but if you guys disagree with any of those points i mentioned in the video please say so
http://www.twitch.tv/xeriamafia/b/320424553



ZvT Replay Enderr vs Chobo [Ohana LE]

7:03 - 7:04 : Looks at Bunker ready to salvage and leaves before queens even get there to attack.
he was planning to salvage it anyway, that might have been a coincidence

7:40 - 7:42 : Looks at Enderr's base through fog of war, see's the gas, but moves his camera up more to make sure he saw everything.
He was just looking at the base, maybe he didn't notice there was gas when he was microing his marines but saw it on the minimap. Decides to look to confirm that the gas is taken. Also, isn't this contradictory to the "camera lock" thing?

9:55 - 9:56 : Sends rally point from Starport(Viking in production) straight to the overlord on the right hand side of his base,

9:57 - 9:58 : Realises that theres another overlord at the bottom left of his base which is closer and would scout his 3rd command centre plus tech so changes his rally to kill that one instead.
he could have assumed that there were overlords in those positions without maphack

10:42 - 10:47 : Rally point of Viking goes directly aimed through 4 overlords on the map.
if he was maphacking, wouldn't he go for the one on the right of his base, as it's closer? He's checking common spots (the fringes of the map), and coincidentally there are overlords in the common spots. It looks like he wanted to check the edges of the map, from the rally points.

11:28 - 11:29 : Is planning on taking his 3rd, looks at his third realises there's a ling there and kills it with his hellions before lifting his cc.
he might have assumed there would be a zergling there

11:47 - 11:50 : Notices how he sends his hellions straight but immediately realises theres 1 ling coming to the 4th base so changes the direction of his hellions to kill it.
Similarly, he could have assumed this.

12:26 - 12:29 : Selects Viking and redoes his attack rally straight through 2 overlords on the map.
He ran away from the queen, then redid his attack rally to avoid the third base, but went back to the original path (looking at the edges of the map)

12:45 - 12:50 : Notices 1 ling attacking his 3rd, immediately realises my opponent knows I have a 3rd, what's he gonna do is he gonna attack me? So moves his camera to the watchtower where Enderr's units are to see if hes in threat.
His viking flew over that army a few seconds ago

13:00 - 13:07 : Notice how Enderr has some lings on the map moving to his 3rd and he puts down 3 supply depots conveniently to prevent runbys from happening.
Later in the game, this depo wall dies and he rebuilds it shortly after. It may have been "conveniently" placed the first time, but that might have been coincidence. It looks like something he just does on this map.

13:22 - 13:30 : Controls his hellions and positions them perfectly way before he even sees any lings on the minimap.
don't know about this

14:40 - 15:00 : Moves out of his base with his army, but purposely leaves some marines behind and rallys to his natural because he knows that there are units positioned at the 4th.
I don't know about TvZ, but maybe he was just being safe from any counter attack.
Why would he rally to the natural if he knew the attack would come at the 3 depo wall at the fourth?

16:00 : This far into the game hes had 3 Orbitals and a viking has not scouted his opponents base to see if hes going mutas at all, what kind of retarded terran doesn't afraid of mutas makes 0 turrets. At this point all he has seen on the minimap is 2 hatcheries 1 pool and 1 extractor.

16:46 - 16:48 : The 3rd time he selects his viking all game, his rally pathing goes straight through 2 overlords and 3 zerglings(which are the only things on the whole right hand side of the map) pretty godly starsense.
his viking's path pretty much covers the whole right hand side of the map anyway

16:54 - 16:59 : Notice how he selects his SCV because there are 40 zerglings at his 4th he looks there before knowing theres anything there.
he had just completed moving his army to the watchtower, might have just looked at it because he had nothing better to do.

17:18 - 17:24 : Notice how his 2 medivacs are already rallied but because he realises he's flying past either an overlord or a zergling he is planning to change the direction of his medivacs but then once they get closer he realises it's only a zergling so he's just ignoring it and going back on course.
He controls his double medivac drop to try and kill any of the lings that killed that scv shortly before. He doesn't see any, and resets the medivacs path to do the drop in the main. He flies over a zergling that was barely out of the medivac's vision while his camera was on the medivacs.
Zergling or overlord, if he noticed he would have cancelled the drop regardless

19:39 - 19:40 : He directly pinpoints his army movement to where the zergs army is just infront of.
This is his deathpush, and he wants the units to be rallied offensively

The way that a game appears depends on the viewer's mindset. As many of you believe he is hacking, you will see these moves as evidence. As I'm doing this to defend him, I don't. If anyone else is truely looking for the truth, watch this replay and the others yourself.

Quick Comments

	Welshy:
	nirvAnA:	thats why you are the manner man <3 this post is gold
	CHoBo(kice):	ty sir
	Zealo:	pretty much how i saw it

[Welshy]

Originally Posted by nRvPickleWeasel

Is there a video or thread out there that shows someone using the hack, and explaining / showing how it works? If there is it could help.

*link removed*
please no links to sites with that

seems like there is a bit of what everyone is describing.

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

**** the comments are disturbing and anger inducing

[nirvAnA]

Originally Posted by SQL.delete

7:40 - 7:42 : Looks at Enderr's base through fog of war, see's the gas, but moves his camera up more to make sure he saw everything.
He was just looking at the base, maybe he didn't notice there was gas when he was microing his marines but saw it on the minimap. Decides to look to confirm that the gas is taken. Also, isn't this contradictory to the "camera lock" thing?

I just want to highlight this. this is HUGE. how did people miss that? aren't hacks known to have that specific camera lock feature whenever you look through the fog of war? and that directly contradicts all the "dead time" where the "camera locks" and he does nothing?

map hackers CANNOT look through fog of war, it screen locks

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	it's not huge and it's only one instance, so it is 'inconclusive' like a lot of the other evidence is said to be
	Zealo:	seems kinda desperate to be accusing him of screen locks and looking into the fog

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by SQL.delete

I'm going through this replay and analysing for chobo's benefit, because if he tried to explain himself it would be shut down immediately by everyone. I'm personally undecided if he's hacking or not.



The way that a game appears depends on the viewer's mindset. As many of you believe he is hacking, you will see these moves as evidence. As I'm doing this to defend him, I don't. If anyone else is truely looking for the truth, watch this replay and the others yourself.

I really appreciate your efforts sir. Thank you muchly I could write my response/POV but it could be quickly turned around and twisted back into my face. It is better someone else than me.

[Baldie]

Originally Posted by SQL.delete

I'm going through this replay and analysing for chobo's benefit, because if he tried to explain himself it would be shut down immediately by everyone. I'm personally undecided if he's hacking or not.

Although I appreciate where you are coming from and I agree it is important to look at everything from a different angle - I think it is highly unlikely anyone would be willing to stop with questions until Chobo himself makes a statement explaining the situation.

You can have people speak on behalf of you as long as you want, until it comes out of the mouth of yourself, or in this case the keyboard of Chobo, it is all interpretation.

Although I appreciate Chobo being concerned about it being thrown back in his face. Ultimately those people civil enough to read a statement from him without taking a side will be able to make a rational decision.