[mGGDaedalus]

I think it would be a good idea for a moderator to consolidate all the damning and/or suspicious evidence in the OP with opinions/analysis from pro/high enough level players next to each point. At the moment there's a lot of people putting their 2cents in for no real good reason and the useful posts with people asking for responses to specific in-game moments are getting lost in the clutter. Just my 2 cents funnily enough

Quick Comments

RicocheT:

You're noob at this game and stupid, but good suggestion here ^^

[inFeZa]

I feel there is more evidence in this case than some of the previous "confirmed" hackers in the same thread.

To kinda give my post a bit more perspective take a look at

FaDeEvetS (He confessed to hacking in one game, with several other games shown to have been blatant maphack.)

Some of us were sure that because he was quite a recognisable person in the community he wasn't a map hacker but came out to confess. Some players even confirming that he does not use maphacks even at Events, but that doesnt stop him from turning them off and on and trying to defend himself.

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

OK then. I would like to hear your account/explanation of TWO situations.

Quote 1:

"Chobo looks into the main and then just randomly pauses for a moment with no actions at 5:30 as a baneling nest is being constructed and I also noted this was happening throughout many of the replays; a random pause with no actions. In sc2gears i looked throughout that time at his actions and there was no right click with his scvs on the mineral patches or anything, just a random look into the main and then natural."

Quote 2:

"Also, if you watch all of Chobo's TvZs he plays completely blind the whole game whenever the zerg goes infestors. Yet on the shakuras game when Mafia was morphing a greater spire he scans both the main and the natural. And on the Ohana game he also scans Mafia's main when he is building a spire. In all other games there were no scans and no scouting, and in all these games the zerg went infestors."

If you can clear up these two situations then it would clear up a lot of things.

Why is my post being ignored?

Quick Comments

	mGGDaedalus:
	CHoBo(kice):	I replied to this pages ago. pauses were because hay fever please go back and check

[iM MaFia]

Just made a video of my rep analysis for those who are too lazy to download and rewatch the rep themselves. This is of Chobo and Enderr

it's about 30 mins long, so theres alot of random bits but if you guys disagree with any of those points i mentioned in the video please say so
http://www.twitch.tv/xeriamafia/b/320424553



ZvT Replay Enderr vs Chobo [Ohana LE]

7:03 - 7:04 : Looks at Bunker ready to salvage and leaves before queens even get there to attack.

7:40 - 7:42 : Looks at Enderr's base through fog of war, see's the gas, but moves his camera up more to make sure he saw everything.

9:55 - 9:56 : Sends rally point from Starport(Viking in production) straight to the overlord on the right hand side of his base,

9:57 - 9:58 : Realises that theres another overlord at the bottom left of his base which is closer and would scout his 3rd command centre plus tech so changes his rally to kill that one instead.

10:42 - 10:47 : Rally point of Viking goes directly aimed through 4 overlords on the map.

11:28 - 11:29 : Is planning on taking his 3rd, looks at his third realises there's a ling there and kills it with his hellions before lifting his cc.

11:47 - 11:50 : Notices how he sends his hellions straight but immediately realises theres 1 ling coming to the 4th base so changes the direction of his hellions to kill it.

12:26 - 12:29 : Selects Viking and redoes his attack rally straight through 2 overlords on the map.

12:45 - 12:50 : Notices 1 ling attacking his 3rd, immediately realises my opponent knows I have a 3rd, what's he gonna do is he gonna attack me? So moves his camera to the watchtower where Enderr's units are to see if hes in threat.

13:00 - 13:07 : Notice how Enderr has some lings on the map moving to his 3rd and he puts down 3 supply depots conveniently to prevent runbys from happening.

13:22 - 13:30 : Controls his hellions and positions them perfectly way before he even sees any lings on the minimap.

14:40 - 15:00 : Moves out of his base with his army, but purposely leaves some marines behind and rallys to his natural because he knows that there are units positioned at the 4th.

16:00 : This far into the game hes had 3 Orbitals and a viking has not scouted his opponents base to see if hes going mutas at all, what kind of retarded terran doesn't afraid of mutas makes 0 turrets. At this point all he has seen on the minimap is 2 hatcheries 1 pool and 1 extractor.

16:46 - 16:48 : The 3rd time he selects his viking all game, his rally pathing goes straight through 2 overlords and 3 zerglings(which are the only things on the whole right hand side of the map) pretty godly starsense.

16:54 - 16:59 : Notice how he selects his SCV because there are 40 zerglings at his 4th he looks there before knowing theres anything there.

17:18 - 17:24 : Notice how his 2 medivacs are already rallied but because he realises he's flying past either an overlord or a zergling he is planning to change the direction of his medivacs but then once they get closer he realises it's only a zergling so he's just ignoring it and going back on course.

19:39 - 19:40 : He directly pinpoints his army movement to where the zergs army is just infront of.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	TABiggun:	FAN-TAS-TIC!
	AvPoker:	them mafia out to get you
	Baldie:
	syfMiley:	very sensual voice
	Nemo:	Very interesting too

[jayaiwhy]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Why is my post being ignored?

Your 2nd quote doesn't make much sense
He doesn't scan when the opponent is making infestors, but scans when he is making greater spire?

Infestor is the current metagame, and people scan greater spire so that they don't blindly make vikings?

Quick Comments

CHoBo(kice):

yep around 14-15 minute mark is the money timing for this

[CHoBo(kice)]

Well what I dont understand, had i known if he was prepared why would I even go at all or if i KNEW what he had... could just sit in base and not lose mining time.

I got scared off, because by the poke it looked like he was well prepared. best that I return to base and try to out macro. it was just pure lucky the suicide ling run by that's all. that and I thought it would be funny to pull back after an all-in, and take a win.

similar to my game 2 I did double 11 at the watch tower like I have seen Polt do. I think they call then "funny games"

[Snx.FigJig]

Is there a video or thread out there that shows someone using the hack, and explaining / showing how it works? If there is it could help.

[MatiNO]

Why would you alt tab during games especially in the finals of a tournament? Some of chobos response don't even make sense tbh.

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by jayaiwhy

Your 2nd quote doesn't make much sense
He doesn't scan when the opponent is making infestors, but scans when he is making greater spire?

Infestor is the current metagame, and people scan greater spire so that they don't blindly make vikings?

the point biggun is trying to make (understand we have watched quite a few of his replays now) is that the only times he scans the opposing zergs bases are

1. when a spire is building
2. when the greater spire is building
(these are the only 2 cases and are timed while they buildings are actually being built, allowing for timely reactions)

there are no scans and therefore no preparation for mutas when it is still a point in the game where you are unsure of your opponents tech path. Blind luck or maybe he has a little extra help. I say that latter.

edit: if he wants to state his scans for the greater spire every game... its a lie because he did'nt.

Quick Comments

	CHoBo(kice):	uhhh really man? your proof getting better and better at making me laugh
	Peleus:	sarcastic comments don't address anything, if its wrong say why

[TCPLemminks]

Originally Posted by nRvPickleWeasel

Is there a video or thread out there that shows someone using the hack, and explaining / showing how it works? If there is it could help.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=4535

Might be a little old though

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by jayaiwhy

Your 2nd quote doesn't make much sense
He doesn't scan when the opponent is making infestors, but scans when he is making greater spire?

Infestor is the current metagame, and people scan greater spire so that they don't blindly make vikings?

You need to read what I post and take it in. Take a little while to think about what I'm saying.

I was pointing out that in every TvZ, he never scouted at all or did any scans. Then, in the one replay where a spire was made he scans it. Also, in the one game that a greater spire was built, he scans until he sees the greater spire.

In no other games did he scan the mains and was playing completely blind. I was just pointing out that in the games he was playing blind, he didnt need to scan because the zerg was going infestors. But then when the zerg happened to be going spire, he would scan immediately.

How did he know?

Also, to the chobo comment "yep around 14-15 minute mark is the money timing for this"

Why didn't you scan at that timing in any other game?

Quick Comments

VB_Rhuubarb:

If you could compile a set of replays showing this, that would help your cause.

[FaDeEvetS]

Haven't looked at any replays or anything and thus have no comments on chobo specifically, but thought i'd write up some of the more advanced features of the maphack other than 'maphack', in order to help in checking people's legitimacy.

Production tab - obvious and just about everyone knows about this
There are auto start hacks, i.e. perfect splitting and instant first worker production...borderline useless

Macro:
Auto Worker production - Automatically creates scvs/probes, only overlapping the production times for a second.
Auto Chrono and muleing - automatically chronoboosts the nexus, and mules your most recent expansion. You can set it to leave x amount of energy, so once you're on two bases you could tell it to leave you with 50 energy for a scan.

These are hard to differentiate from 'good macro' at face value, however there's a few tells;
The worker production in the hack is great, it doesn't interfere with play at all, this however means that if you watch the replay closely against a player using this, they won't even select their building when an scv/probe is begun. clear tell.
The chronoboosting and muleing can also be done when a player isnt even looking at the nexus or mineral field, yes the nexus COULD be chrono'd by the minimap but that's fairly rare...

There's the blink stalker hack...(there's also an extremely similiar roach burrow one) - easily told by the borderline inhuman APM jumps

You can set queens to automatically transfuse units, even when the queen isnt selected and isnt even on your screen. Potentially could be found out by watching drops closely.


Nukes, nyduses and when a unit is loaded up into an overlord or medivac etc also cause pings on the players minimap - potentially these pings could be found in sc2gears?

Last time i visited the hacks site (6months ago) there was discussion of making a marine/tank etc etc auto production similiar to the worker production mechanic, which would provide a terran 'perfect' macro..unsure as to whether this was actually made though

All these features are within the same 'advanced' hack utility...
I know for a fact that (atleast 7months or so ago) there was atleast a handful of SEA GM players using this hack (as SEA ladder was discussed somewhat on the hacks forum), however obviously on a hacking site everyone uses aliases so i am not and cannot call anyone out, as i simply don't know who.

So yeah, i haven't looked at any chobo replays and therefore i'm not taking a side...but just thought that listing out the features as of 6-7 months ago could help with future/current accusations.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Thanks for the info, but I think you have to make formal apology for what you did. I haven't seen them anywhere. :-/

[CHoBo(kice)]

Because I know mafia's style, I have played several games against him before. In fact I was worried one game which I was scanning more than regularly because I wasn't sure what he was up to.

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by nRvPickleWeasel

Is there a video or thread out there that shows someone using the hack, and explaining / showing how it works? If there is it could help.

BRB Downloading

[UHF]

Originally Posted by NvRossi

part 1
4:32 to 4:37 5 seconds with 0 actions
5:33 to 5:37 4 seconds with 0 actions
5:41 to 4:43 2 seconds no actions
5:48 to 5:51 3 seconds no actions
6:46 to 6:50 4 seconds no actions
8:24 to 8:28 4 seconds no actions
9:59 to 10:03 4 seconds no actions
12:27 to 12:09 2 seconds no actions
12:59 to 13:01 2 seconds no actions
14:11 to 14:16 5 seconds no actions
18:28 to 18:31 3 seconds

Rossi, same game but looking at your actions (just a few selections) -

4:17 to 4:20 3 seconds no actions
4:38 to 4:40 2 seconds no actions
4:59 to 5:01 2 seconds no actions
6:13 to 6:16 3 seconds no actions
6:23 to 6:26 3 seconds no actions
10:33 to 10:35 2 seconds no actions
15:25 to 15:28 3 seconds no actions

Yes, there are no 5 second areas without action - but it's not that much of a stretch to think a second or two more to have a quick drink or stretch your fingers. I mean, we all play differently.

I also watched another game of Chobo on Ohana where he used similar flight paths for his Vikings when there were no units there - so I'm not totally convinced (as suspect as it may look) that he is cheating.

PS. Not trying to be a douche bag, just covering all bases before you guys nail him to the wall.


Mafia vs asgchobo Shakuras game:

5:05 stares a long time at the overlord that spots the proxy raxes
knows that he has to commit, if not it will look too obvious.

Has SCV selected, moves screen down to see minerals and clicks towards minerals, then clicks to harvest. I think this is just was it is, scrolling the screen down to see the mineral patch to click.

6:12 sees 2 spines and 2 queens, pulls back everything

we had a discussion with terrans and zergs, if you see 2 spines and 2 queens you still commit cause this usually means the zerg has no units, and 20 scvs 14 marines kills queens without energy and spines really fast. At this point Mafia was pumping out lings and had speed almost finished. Chobo did not see the lings.

Let's assume he wasn't cheating - he has an SCV and 8 marines at the very front and the rest chaining behind. If he attacks with that defence with 8 marines he loses. So he waits for the unit train to catch up - but then mafia pulls his drones/any lings and defends. I think this was just a sloppy play by letting his units go up the ramp too early.


7:05 kinda suspect that he keeps calm and and doesnt raise his supply depots when the ling counter attack is coming. Imo, he knows exactly how many lings are coming. He even keeps one of his raxes lifted, when in reality a ton of lings and banelings could be coming and that would mean game over.

Didn't see the attack coming. He had a SCV selected that he went to build a CC and then queue command to harvest minerals. As he sees the lings stream in, he instantly selects his marines to move and at the stage the lings are on top of him. I put this down to APM and not having the speed to respond.

11:50 takes the 6o clock expand, cause he knows that mafia is making infestors, chobo has 2 engineering bays but no turrets, still havent scanned or scouted mafias base.

12:50 lifts up his wall, makes reactors, and takes the 4th. He has no idea what Mafia is doing ( this is also the timing where a ling bling muta attack would happen) , chobo has no tanks and is sitting calm with his marines.

At this point Chobo is blind. All he has seen is a whole bunch of lings. The 6 o'clock is the safest place to land without Marines moving out. Yes, it's exposed to mutas but he has no medivacs to move out the front with (or any other unit other than marines) His other CC is also nearly complete, so I would think this is the safest play.

His 4th goes and lands just as his medivacs complete and he moves out to defend it, with combat sheilds finishing soon after.

14:00 Was gonna send 2 drop ships to mafias main,but knows that mafia has that covered with overlords, he sends them to mafias 5th that was about to be made, he sends the drop so mafias overlord doesnt see it.

At first this does look suspect, but there are overlords at the bottom of the map anyway, which are argueably closer and he flies past them anyway.

15:10 mafias great spire is building, chobo ( still has no map vision or knows what mafia is doing) scans mafias main, and then his natural. Right after he drops 3 starports. Imo he does this so it doesnt look suspect.

Like you said he is blind at this point. All he has seen is lings - he scans for tech and see's the spire and responds occordingly.

16:45 stims a bunch of units to avoid mafia burrowing his ling at the 5th base. Makes a turret too to avoid burrowed infestors.

Nothing wrong there, the ling kills his SCV and he goes after it so he doesn't need to scan.

18:20 hits the money scan right on top of all of mafias unit and spines(3rd time he scanned this game)

At 17:40 he has the Xel'Naga Tower and can't see any units. His scan at 18:20 is exactly one screen further into the FOW - seems reasonable.

19:10 chobo has a sensor tower, mafia backs, chobo follows the units in the fog, moves the vikings to kill the broods and then scans. (thats not how its supposed to be done)

18:54 he see's brood lords and backs off. he moves vikings instantly afterwards. At 19:15ish you see the main part of the army moving off in the sensor field, at which point he moves his vikings up over the raised ground for vision.

from 19:30 – 20:30 he has no map control even though he could easily claim it with marines (in theory) then he drops two scans sees everything.

That is true, mind you his ground army isn't very large, but he is almost maxed with money bank, so scans are probably worth it.

21:20 repositions his units when mafia is moving out, doesnt spread his units at all even though there are red dots on the mini map from the sensor towers ( I would be ******* afraid of the infestors)

Just before this he is macroing, and you can see the units moving well before on the sensor tower.

25:00 hits money scan

See's units moving up the front and scans

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	xGKingdelete:

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

*VB_Rhuubarb: *
If you could compile a set of replays showing this, that would help your cause.

Some of the people in this thread are starting to annoy me. If you read my original analysis posts I clearly stated the replays that the things I am talking about are in.

You can DL all of Chobo's maters cup games from sc2sea.

The random look at the main and the 'pull back of the century' are both from the Mafia vs chobo game on Shakuras.

And in the second quote i clearly said which games I was referring to.

"all his TvZ replays" refers to the replays of Chobo on sc2sea.

[TACosmic]

@chobo

- Lanproof yourself asap or start streaming
- Never be taken seriously again

Pick one.

[CHoBo(kice)]

I have tried streaming in past but my internet upload is not good enough since moving to new house. sigh.. T.T

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by UHF

Rossi, same game but looking at your actions (just a few selections) -

4:17 to 4:20 3 seconds no actions
4:38 to 4:40 2 seconds no actions
4:59 to 5:01 2 seconds no actions
6:13 to 6:16 3 seconds no actions
6:23 to 6:26 3 seconds no actions
10:33 to 10:35 2 seconds no actions
15:25 to 15:28 3 seconds no actions

Yes, there are no 5 second areas without action - but it's not that much of a stretch to think a second or two more to have a quick drink or stretch your fingers. I mean, we all play differently.

I've watched Mafia vs asgchobo Shakuras game and can acceptable alternative reasons for all those listed against him.

I also watched another game of Chobo on Ohana where he used similar flight paths for his Vikings when there were no units there - so I'm not totally convinced (as suspect as it may look) that he is cheating.

PS. Not trying to be a douche bag, just covering all bases before you guys nail him to the wall.

FUARKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

did you actually look at the situations in the game what i am actually doing at these times?
i filtered all the times from which he was actually moving his screen and not making actions

did you actually look at the game or simply look at the combat log? if you did then all is fine and my argument is weakened... it is still however relevant.

for example you listed
6:13 to 6:16 3 seconds no actions - justified as waiting for factory cost....

[DM.MCZ.Polaris]

Originally Posted by NvPinder

Only if your girlfriend was AT LEAST a 9 would you bother to consistently alt tab that much through the majority of games you play in for a girl I'm assuming you've already had sex with. The only way for you to verify this would be half, if not full naked pictures of your girlfriend for us to discuss the legitimacy of her attractiveness and deem if she is worthy of this amount of alt tabbing.

I don't see why there's a need for this just because Chobo is replying to his gf. Even eehanDgNa also alt tab to reply me if I were to Facebook him. This is called being a gentleman.
Showing naked pictures of his girlfriend is definitely a nonsensical solution.

Edit: sorry, I'm too gullible. And btw, I find this joke pretty rude.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	Snx.FigJig:	he was just being sarcastic
	iM yang:	idiot
	SanG:	regardless, i want your pic
	TABiggun:	IT WAS A JOKE MORON
	ROOTPetraeus:	bad yang!
	neKo:	hurp
	DM.MCZ.Shondy:	Auto female defense system.
	Antel0pe:	AWW YEAH! :D
	xGKingdelete:	hahaha
	x5.Revenant:	:/
	Pandan:	Don't feel bad, made me LOL