[breadfan]

Originally Posted by TN.Fitz

That I have to disagree with. It sounds like you think the game will never be balanced. You have to consider Brood War. Same three distinctive races and it ended up balanced but yea for sure SC2 CURRENTLY is not balanced.

I think the point being made is that when people say BW was pretty well balanced, that doesn't mean it was definitively and perfectly balanced - it was good enough that everyone was like, yeah, this is a fair game, but the fact is that when you have each race with a different method of economy production, different methods of making buildings, and different requirements for tech paths and strengths of late game units, you can only ever get an approximation of balance.

Personally, I'm undecided. I think it's very likely we are seeing changes made to the game with the goal of transitioning into HotS more smoothly, so I think the latest changes are part of an incremental shift. Prior to that, I was happy. But then, I play terran.

[sRDante]

Why the hell would someone open such a stupid, pointless thread, this won't go anywhere... Surprised its not closed yet.

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	Well (s)he's fairly new here and trying to contribute to discussion. Might be a way to get to know forum personalities?
	TADivinity:	This is a shaking head/downvote. Your post is worse than anything currently on the site
	cruxSpoon:	why would someone respond with such a baseless pointless post that adds nothing to anything, surprised derp derp derp de
	TAavanar:	i completely agree this isnt going to go anywhere, all balance threads end up with ppl not discussing, just calling imba
	Jaywalk:	this thread proves why this community is different to many others. this discussion is civil and some great points raised
	Stallion:	acting in such a way deserves some hammer time imo BAKA GET ON THIS

[Crankenstein]

I feel like Terran is the weakest race at the moment and I was surprised to see many people in this thread echoing this sentiment.

I dislike the queen buff because of how it has effected the late-game. Fast thirds are much easier to hold now allowing Zergs to progress to their late-game much sooner and creep is now much easier to spread - even if you do manage to wipe out a few tumours the creep just comes straight back out. I feel like my heavily macro focused style has been punished by a patch that was implemented to assist Zergs in holding off cheese and early aggression.

As for TvP I am feeling a lot better about it lately as I have practised my mid-game aggression quite a lot which has allowed me to take a much faster 4th allowing me to hit the 16 minute mark a base or two up if things go well which allows me to play a late-game on a somewhat even footing. I agree with Lights sentiments though - To win in this matchup I have to really outplay my opponent.

And I don't like TvT at the moment - there are just so many possibilities in the early game in this matchup that I find it hard to keep track of everything. That's mostly a practice issues though... But it's SEA... good luck finding a Terran to practice against.

Balance aside the main reason I am starting to lose heart is that there are so few Terrans for me to look up to now. Thorzain and Demuslim are basically the only foreigner Terrans that I can really get behind. My hero Slayers Terrans have all fallen off the map.

I can't find any Terran streamers to watch either. Iaguz and Demuslim are fantastic but other than that there is what... Dragon? no thanks... MKP? Yeah if he isn't just streaming replays or off racing.. ForGG... I can only put up with so many 1 or 2 base games.

The biggest hit to my heart was reading Boxers interview where he said he is losing faith in Terran and is thinking of switiching race in HotS. If the Emperor deserts us... ... ...

I hope things pick up, I don't enjoy Zerg or Protoss at all so if I lose heart in Terran completely I'll probably just become a spectator.

[Sephyre]

Originally Posted by Feddonator

"Rock is overpowered, Paper is fine"
- Scissors

Sums it up

[Typhoon]

I QQ enough without having to post here and look like a massive tawt.

Terran is hard, whats new? :P

[Bloodmyst]

I 100% agree with Crankenstein.

What I would like to say though.... for what it's worth. I'm not sure if I like how T v Z and T v P matches are played out. Would you call it game design? It seems everything is going into the direction of "Who can be more greedier and get away with it?" This leads to like the first 8 minutes or so of the game being so boring as both players are playing passive to get their structures/tech/expos up. We might as well just start the game at the 8 - 10 minute mark.

Right now, all we see in;

T v Z = Zerg does some roach/bane all in or rushes to Hive tech for late game ownage. Terran trying to be as greedy as he can be whilst hoping to the SC2 gods he won't get all-ined. Then only to find the Zerg didn't all in and then he can start playing "catch up" for the rest of the game.

T v P = Whats to be said? MMMVG vs Deathball. MU is very repetitive and stale.

I miss it when players like TLO (when he was playing Terran) were utilizing some unorthodox builds back in the day. His ghost builds were e-mazing. We don't really see this kind of stuff anymore because a good portion of Terrans units are now lacking (nerfs).

EDIT: I always have a little chuckle to myself when people tell me Terran is the most flexible race.

[Ghosty]

Originally Posted by ETL.Soundwave

The game is very balanced right now.

Of course, I still think Protoss is ******* bullshit.

I can empathize with this guy. lol

[Meatex]

My feeling is protoss is totally broken
Not imba, not OP but broken.
Why?
Cause its so boring to play and boring to watch
Zvp = zerg holds all in with minimal damage, goes on to win
protoss gets third up game progresses to broodlord infestor spine wall standoff against mothership col archon deathball. Its no fun by any stretch of the imagination
Some pro protosses make it interesting with constant multi pronged attacks in late game but most just sit there and wait for zerg to get bored or clump up

[Fairyking]

For the most part I agree with Light. I think blizzard keeps it decently balanced and generally when things get a bit broken they fix it in time.

[FlashDrakE]

Trash

All jokes aside, the game is pretty balanced right now. Terran has some trouble against Zerg right now but I don't think the matchup is unplayable (the better player still wins most of the time)

[Malice]

Remember guys, the only thing important is that you have fun!

Quick Comments

TADivinity:

Shut up, Meg

[BearPack]

ZvT feels heavily zerg favoured in the early game, as all types of shenanigans can be held off with 4 or more queens.
ZvP feels very uncomfortable. Strange timings, people have finally gotten decent with forcefields, and immortal/sentry attacks make this matchup very uncomfortable, especially when forced to take an early third and try to be economically viable against chronoboosted +2 stalker armies.



In all seriousness, it's just a phase. Every matchup has had wild swings of balance throughout the games history, and it will pass while the races finally figure each other out.

God help me if I see protoss do something 1base. I'd probably just die.

[mGGMueX]

I find Terran to be the race I have the least success with, and I think it's because in tvz and tvp you have to play abusive in some way, either really greedy with expansions and upgrades or extremely aggressive. I don't think it's necessarily imbalanced, but it adds a diceroll element to those matchups IMO.

[ETL.ViTaL]

tvz is so hard to play now a days because zerg can easily get 3 bases and have decent creep spread so that whenever u push out they can just mass ling and you won't be able to do any damage. Then in the late game when zerg transitions in and out of brood lords to ultras its almost impossible for a terran to keep up with zergs transition capabilities.Also with the ghost nerf it is very difficult for terran to deal with brood lords with mass corrupter; upon seeing this the terran must go mass vikings with a few thors and then fight back a zerg who suddenly remaxes on 10 ultras with 80 lings

For me tvp is quite balanced as long as you get lots of vikings and ghosts and hit ur emps.

[Sephyre]

Winrates for June: http://minus.com/mLvjZlHez/1g

Note that Korean terrans seem to have adapted better to the queen change based on the stats.

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by Sephyre

Winrates for June: http://minus.com/mLvjZlHez/1g

Note that Korean terrans seem to have adapted better to the queen change based on the stats.

The percentiles don't add up to 100 on some graphs.

[ToRDolo]

If what Sephyre said is true I guess SEA just might be experiencing the metagame lag haha

Personally I've always felt the game is fairly balanced, it's just that I'm not playing the matchup right if I keep losing to pushes at certain timings/aren't ready for tech switches.

Quick Comments

Pox:

supply blocked targa bane is totally imba though

[Bloodmyst]

Originally Posted by Sephyre

Winrates for June: http://minus.com/mLvjZlHez/1g

Note that Korean terrans seem to have adapted better to the queen change based on the stats.

No, those graphs are very much innaccurate.

If you look at the Tournaments this data was taken from, there were many Terrans that got walkovers, such as Jjakji and several other players (can't remember off the top of my head).

There a fair bit of other dodgy stuff about this graph as well. Poor data from whoever released this months win rates.

[inFeZa]

This thread is still going ?

T_T

[Sephyre]

Originally Posted by Bloodmyst

No, those graphs are very much innaccurate.

If you look at the Tournaments this data was taken from, there were many Terrans that got walkovers, such as Jjakji and several other players (can't remember off the top of my head).

There a fair bit of other dodgy stuff about this graph as well. Poor data from whoever released this months win rates.

It's done by SC2Stats, aka @SC2statistics on Twitter.

The same guys that do the winrate charts every month.

Given the sample size I don't believe a small number of walkovers are going to skew it.