[Snx.Mufasa]

Originally Posted by Tazerenix

Assuming you react as you see it with your stalker sititng at your natural, it can go from the gas in your main to within a couple of hexes of your nexus at your natural before dying. With two overlords (which is no longer unreasonable as you can get them to the protoss main 20% faster) there is absolutely no way to hide anything from zerg going FFE anymore, and they will get one of the overlords out.

I have tested it.

ah k fair enough.

i might add though that i would imagine there wouldn't be many maps where 1 overlord is a guaranteed scout.

2 overlords on the other hand should be able to easily on any map... but considering the costs and having to replace the two overlords i think its a fair trade.

[TADivinity]

Originally Posted by iVnMufasa

ah k fair enough.

i might add though that i would imagine there wouldn't be many maps where 1 overlord is a guaranteed scout.

2 overlords on the other hand should be able to easily on any map... but considering the costs and having to replace the two overlords i think its a fair trade.

This. Well said.

Again, I think you are over-reacting - its not much different to what already exists in regards to 'seeing everything in an FFE'. That 20% change is only significant over long-distance maps, i.e. Tal'Darim

[TCPKiaSu]

What!?but my pvz is already sht as hell!

[inFeZa]

if its un-killable before it can get into your base and see the whole thing, gonna be super hard to hide tech vs a zerg. DT rush will have to always be proxied.

[x5_Bard]

There is an updated version here : http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3389261389

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by nRvBard

There is an updated version here : http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3389261389

I can tell it's fake right as soon as I read that they're buffing .

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by SQL.inFeZa

if its un-killable before it can get into your base and see the whole thing, gonna be super hard to hide tech vs a zerg. DT rush will have to always be proxied.

Look's like you're just going to have to . . . *Gulp* . . . play macro.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Look's like you're just going to have to . . . *Gulp* . . . play macro.

Because no zerg ever has hidden tech.

[iM SundeR]

Awwwwhhh yeah hook me up with dem queen range

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by SundeR

Awwwwhhh yeah hook me up with dem queen range

Don't really mind the range buff to be honest. It isn't affecting their AA attack and I don't go 4gate +1 anymore. I guess it will help defend marine pressure ;P

[ROOT`iaguz]

It's difficult to play macro against a race that gets 3 bases and 70 drones without having to do anything, especially one who knows no fear because his starting overlord gets to see everything.

And yea, 5 range queens would make them stupidly good at holding marines hellions and especially reapers early game. I don't see how my similarly ranged hellions can keep creep forced back if they have to fight queens they cannot kite.

EDIT- and if they can't keep creep back... why even make hellions at all?

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

Reaper build time back to what it was then, so they are still an early game threat?

[iM SundeR]

Originally Posted by Tazerenix

Don't really mind the range buff to be honest. It isn't affecting their AA attack and I don't go 4gate +1 anymore. I guess it will help defend marine pressure ;P

its not just that its everything early game. denying worker scouting in the first 3 minutes is pretty crucial at times.

zvz helps defend baneling busts early

i could go on for days

its huuuuuuuuuuuuuge

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by Tazerenix

Don't really mind the range buff to be honest. It isn't affecting their AA attack and I don't go 4gate +1 anymore. I guess it will help defend marine pressure ;P

Uh oh watch out, the queen will deal out 1 damage a bit earlier to your zealot before roach/ling defends the attack.. - I don't see how 1 queen having 2 more range negates +1 4 gate :P. Will help with Terran and Zerg early game all ins the most probably.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by EdgE

Uh oh watch out, the queen will deal out 1 damage a bit earlier to your zealot before roach/ling defends the attack.. - I don't see how 1 queen having 2 more range negates +1 4 gate :P. Will help with Terran and Zerg early game all ins the most probably.

I don't 4gate +1 cos I can never ever seem to do damage :P. Yea, I think it will help most with fast rax pressure, 11/11s and 12/14's.

[PiG]

Zerenix I think you're exaggerating how easy it is for OL's to see everything. If the toss is smart he can usually tell where the overlords will come from and place buildings to avoid being scouted. But I think the idea of the game is that you're always able to scout what you're opponent's doing if you commit enough.

Like... basically if the Protoss is pressuring with his early units then he shouldn't be able to deny overlord scouting at the same time. Whereas if he's being a sneaky snake and doing something that relies on not getting scouted well then it's not that hard to keep a stalker on the edge of your base near this tech that you need to hide so badly. And if they come from the other angle then you can usually get down there well in time to stop it.

In short, I doubt it's overlords seeing everything that's really your problem in the mu.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by PiG

Zerenix I think you're exaggerating how easy it is for OL's to see everything. If the toss is smart he can usually tell where the overlords will come from and place buildings to avoid being scouted. But I think the idea of the game is that you're always able to scout what you're opponent's doing if you commit enough.

Like... basically if the Protoss is pressuring with his early units then he shouldn't be able to deny overlord scouting at the same time. Whereas if he's being a sneaky snake and doing something that relies on not getting scouted well then it's not that hard to keep a stalker on the edge of your base near this tech that you need to hide so badly. And if they come from the other angle then you can usually get down there well in time to stop it.

In short, I doubt it's overlords seeing everything that's really your problem in the mu.

Well I'll just go SG every game regardless but I still feel like the overlord buff is unneeded.

Also, @Iaguz, I didn't think about the reaper. Blizzard really hates reapers lol.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Well the reaper basically sucks in TvZ right now anyway because zergs are super good at not losing any drones to the first one you make and deflecting the subsequent ones you make and then oh shit speed is finished. Not a big deal really but it's one thing that did come to mind.

[TAEdgE]

I still do get scared sometimes by reapers, especially proxy reapers. If they come just a bit faster and get in the bunker or get a few drone kills before the queen is actually made they could still be an option. They have their niche uses in TvT and TvP too, and 5 seconds off the build time wouldn't break anything in those matchups I would think... reapers are just my favorite Terran unit i want them to be made T_T.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by EdgE

I still do get scared sometimes by reapers, especially proxy reapers. If they come just a bit faster and get in the bunker or get a few drone kills before the queen is actually made they could still be an option. They have their niche uses in TvT and TvP too, and 5 seconds off the build time wouldn't break anything in those matchups I would think... reapers are just my favorite Terran unit i want them to be made T_T.

You should play against spook.

[UHF]

a clip showing overlord speed comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQA-yCqZGVQ&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQA-yCqZGVQ&feature=g-upl