[NvPinder]

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/530...-5_2_2012#blog
IMPORTANT STUFF:

• Overlord movement speed increased to 0.586, up from 0.4687. Upgraded overlord movement speed unchanged.

• Queen anti-ground weapon attack range increased from 3 to 5.*

• Observer build time decreased to 30, down from 40.

These are being tested on some random misc map available on the server right now, and could apparently go live very soon in a minor patch.

One things for sure, blizzard is CLEARLY not balancing off of the Australian scene results.... :P

*This has been changed since the original op as blizzard changed there minds, the original change was

• Queen starting energy increased to 50, up from 25.

[|Erasmus|]

So if they're basing this off results in say korea, why exactly would protoss need buffs again?

[x5.Phoenix]

So zerg can do a creep tumor and inject straight away?

Quick Comments

|Erasmus|:

And the third queen will get double creep tumor right away. I guess they want creep in the opponents nat before they can take it...

[iMSystem]

Originally Posted by PurePhoenix

So zerg can do a creep tumor and inject straight away?

Yep, or quicker transfuses

[Stallion]

lol too true :P i love the exactly figures of the overlord speed. I wonder why it has to be that excatly instead of just 0.55 or 0.6. Queen energy is interesting i'm guessing its for zvt? as zergs often have enough creep spread vs protoss as it is.

[Loach]

hells to the YEAH

[ToRVenom]

Sweet. it says "We are closely watching TvP to see if the offensive capabilities of terran in the early/mid game becomes too much," So it may not only be me! Score! im not retarded!

[TCPGunter]

Originally Posted by ToRVenom

Sweet. it says "We are closely watching TvP to see if the offensive capabilities of terran in the early/mid game becomes too much," So it may not only be me! Score! im not retarded!

well lets be honest you are a little bit :P

[NDG.Stitch]

WHATTTTTT?! are they really not going to buff terran? these guys are ridiculous

Oh great... 50 starting energy, you won't even need to build a third queen zzz.

[jtxgaming]

My god 4 queens are going to be overpowered.
Hydras may actually prove to be useful now, maybe that was their intention.

Quick Comments

Crankenstein:

Yes,,, the 4 queen opener was the first thing I thought of too.

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by jtxgaming

Hydras may actually prove to be useful now, maybe that was their intention.

With the amount of creep spread zerg will get retardedly early hydras will be legit usefull against protoss's taking a third (not that zerg needed more help being aggressive against a toss trying to take 3 base).

I think that the overlord change is good for sc2 in general in all match-ups, and the observer change simply does a similar thing for protoss as the overlord does for zerg.

The queen change tho has such a ridiculous amount of implications its actually hard to process them all, i'd be very surprised it that made it through the patch.

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

[iVnschmuttt]

Queen change surely can't go through, if you want creep you just make four queens. Hate Protoss and hope they die but surely obs buff won't change much.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by schmuttt

Hate Protoss and hope they die but surely obs buff won't change much.

It does free up a decent amount of robo build time (when combined with chrono-boost. After watching squirtle just destroying code s with 2 base colo timings, i can't say the idea of the same colossus count being 20s earlier (assuming 2 obs first, which iirc is standard with that build) makes me sleep any better at night.

[TAEdgE]

How ridiculous..

[UHF]

So my overlord can outrun a queen off-creep? If so, huzzah!

[mOOnGLaDe]

this seems like a great idea!

Quick Comments

MooZfY:

moongladeuuuuu

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by mOOnGLaDe

this seems like a great idea!

No, it really doesn't.

[TargA]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

No, it really doesn't.

make a raven.

Originally Posted by kez

I feel that with this queen 50 starting energy I'm going to be like all the terrans who were blindly defending their race back when they thought mules and 100 second stim research and all their other bs was balanced. Dw guys 50 starting energy on a queen is TOTALLY gonna be balanced... but seriously i dont see why bliz thinks we need this.. top 16 all zergs next ACL? Overlord change is kinda cool tho, very helpful vs terran as on bigger maps those ovies can be hard to get into position against good terrans, obs change i dont really care about, theres like 3 protoss in the world who are gonna benefit from the obs change being that much smaller

yeah agree, blizzard should totally base all their balancing based on a small potato tournament in Sidney with nubs+ moonglade

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

More ZvZs incoming in SEA tourneys..

And the patch effects ZvZ ALOT. Mutas becomes easier to hold with late scout, all ins becoming really weak vs hatch first etc

I dont agree, its really hard to lose vs mutas unless you all in and they hold Just go westley build, lings counter muta!

And I still think all ins are viable against hatch first, just have to be a bit more careful.

Quick Comments

SLCN.Kez:

how is what i said in any way saying bliz should balance themselves from our tourney?

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by TargA

make a raven.

Zergs should stop complaining to blizzard and use more nydus worms.

Quick Comments

	syfCabracan:	Nydus worms counter the map itself, what more do you guys want?
	ToRPandarine:	more nydus worms!!!

[TargA]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

Zergs should stop complaining to blizzard and use more nydus worms.

next time we play i will show you my nydus hydra strategy.


i bet youre shitting your pants right now.

[jtxgaming]

I dont think that any toss gateway push will even work anymore, the moment you reach the creep your still at your base. The fact is that you need robo tech now to push back creep that has advanced so far, imo almost all other forms of tech will result in a loss.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by jtxgaming

I dont think that any toss gateway push will even work anymore, the moment you reach the creep your still at your base. The fact is that you need robo tech now to push back creep that has advanced so far, imo almost all other forms of tech will result in a loss.

I was about to say stargate play... but then I realised that 50 starting energy means main/nat instantly linked with creep (with no missed injects) and queens spawning with transfuse available.... :/

[Daboo]

Wow that queen energy change is pretty big o.0. Wonder why they changed the observer build time though?

[SLCN.Kez]

I feel that with this queen 50 starting energy I'm going to be like all the terrans who were blindly defending their race back when they thought mules and 100 second stim research and all their other bs was balanced. Dw guys 50 starting energy on a queen is TOTALLY gonna be balanced... but seriously i dont see why bliz thinks we need this.. top 16 all zergs next ACL? Overlord change is kinda cool tho, very helpful vs terran as on bigger maps those ovies can be hard to get into position against good terrans, obs change i dont really care about, theres like 3 protoss in the world who are gonna benefit from the obs change being that much smaller

Quick Comments

Fourby:

not really sure if blizz looks at sea and decides the changes lol

[x5.NotoriouS]

this is crap

[TAminimat]

Love the overlord change, might help with early game scouting/positioning. The queen change is cool but I don't see it as necessary.

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by NvPinder

One things for sure, blizzard is CLEARLY not balancing off of the Australian scene results.... :P

Why do they feel the need to increase overlord speed all of a sudden
Edit: how fast actually is it? I'd love to see a comparison coz numbers like that just mean shit all to me.
and yeah, bad news bears for australian non-zergs T_T

[ToRPandarine]

damn...like we s dont hv enuff stuff to worry about -_-

[nirvAnA]

the 50 starting queen energy is crazy unless they nerf creep spread somehow

its like so totally random and came out of nowhere.

[AeonixG]

So will this balances changes affect SEA server anytime soon?

[TADivinity]

Pinder made a great point about the ridiculous amount of implications that the energy change makes.

Its a double edged sword for fellow zergies who like to 1-base in zvz. Any 11+ pool timing one-base all in with bling is pretty much thwarted against 2 queens now (Definitively so, I mean)

Although, the gains of the change are no doubt larger than this one 'disadvantage'.

I think the implications re: faster creep spread is quite fair on a *defensive* perspective. And for hydras.

Hellions should still be out in time to stop crazy spread though. Not sure what to think re: zvp attacking the third..

[NDG.Stitch]

Yea it feels like Blizzard is completely taking away early game cheesing... With Obs build time faster, and then overlords are faster, queens get more energy so they can deal with more harassment early game... SIGH. Now I'll have to learn SC2 the right way!

Quick Comments

zenabi:

[Yonge]

Thanks for the info! Was at work and couldn't see the blizzard website! Great news!

[MeLo]

How about we fix that Carrier?

Quick Comments

	inFeZa:	LIKE LIKE LIKE PLZ
	ToRPandarine:	CARRIER HAS ARRIVED!!

[aLtNinja]

HOLY SHIT 50 STARTING ENERGY ON QUEENS? this is going to be so great for zerg against both protoss and terran...you thought 3 hatch ZvP was good before? now i get 3 extra creep tumours...

[Hydroid]

hmmm, well I'm shocked by the queen energy bit. Even as a zerg player I'm having a hard time seeing how that could possibly make it when I have a natural bias of wanting my race to be OP. I'll gladly take it if it goes through, but I don't think that's a good change. The OL speed change is nice though.

I would rather see something that makes it viable for zerg to not max out ASAP. I'm growing bored of the current "race to my 3-4 base setup as quickly as possible and then kill them before they max out your else you can't win". Overall this forces Terran and Protoss to seek timing pushes to hold the zerg back more anyway. But just making it easier to be able to scout and defend while droning up non-stop is just hurting it in my opinion. I'm the first to admit I love fast expanding and being a macro player, but I would like it if there were more frequent small engagements where I'm not only making units so I don't die right there only to make drones and another base right after.

[Snx.Mufasa]

i feel like everyone is overreacting a bit.

the hellions are still going to arrive in time to stop creep spread from getting out of hand, you're just going to have to work a little harder at stopping it instead of just camping outside the base. plus you can always spend a scan on it... which most terrans do anyways.

cbf going through all the other areas of the game its going to effect.

i am a zerg so i could just be bias... but i like the idea and hopefully its not actually imba xD

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by SQL.Ninja

HOLY SHIT 50 STARTING ENERGY ON QUEENS? this is going to be so great for zerg against both protoss and terran...you thought 3 hatch ZvP was good before? now i get 3 extra creep tumours...

ughhhh! T_T faster 12 min max out at my base?

[MeaNySPR]

so terran cheese is going to be even harder and zerg's 2 base all in is going to be more unpredictable. protoss is going to be ready for 2 medivac/ghost timing. terrans should really get the smallest buff possible (like -5 sec in starport building time) just so that we don't feel left out when everyone else is anticipating for the new patch

[Hydroid]

I do think Blizzard is doing a good thing with this beta test though. I hope this becomes a regular thing for future patches as it gives more true test results in combo with the crowd sourcing of thousands of players instead of purely relying on inhouse discussion and forum speculation.

[foxmeep]

Originally Posted by Hydroid

I do think Blizzard is doing a good thing with this beta test though. I hope this becomes a regular thing for future patches as it gives more true test results in combo with the crowd sourcing of thousands of players instead of purely relying on inhouse discussion and forum speculation.

afaik pretty much every balance change so far has gone via the PTR.

[Hydroid]

Originally Posted by foxmeep

afaik pretty much every balance change so far has gone via the PTR.

Doing a custom map is far easier IMO because you don't need to specifically load up the PTR (which I've never been able to get working anyway)

[Daboo]

Originally Posted by Hydroid

Doing a custom map is far easier IMO because you don't need to specifically load up the PTR (which I've never been able to get working anyway)

Yeah I think this is a lot better than the ptr. First off a lot of people didnt know about the ptr, and of the people who knew many couldnt get it to work. Plus the chances of getting a game on that server dropped exponentially after the first day of the announcement.

[inFeZa]

i think the major ones have, the minor ones i dont think many did.

[MooZfY]

queens mass transfuse ftw

[mGGDaedalus]

Slightly faster slowverlords might be nice (not sure how severe a buff that is in practice) but the other 2 changes seem kinda silly.

[jayaiwhy]

4 gate off FFE isn't going to work anymore, nor is Stargate pressure (not that SG pressures are good in the first place)


We might see more early expands in ZvZ because of the energy buff (which is good, it encourages 2 base play)

More all ins in ZvT because now we can scout 3CC (hopefully, not sure how much faster OL is)

[iM SundeR]

Ahaha, this isn't going to change much, it just makes the same builds a little bit easier to scout.

Queen energy won't go through, make a 10 energy increase but not double. I don't see how having your 3rd and 4th queen able to spread 2 creep tumors at once being a good or useful thing. If we can spread creep easily now then there's no need for this kind of change.

Overlord speed is increase is long, long, long overdue, but there definitely won't be any metagame shifts because of this. Marines and stalkers can still take .58 speed overlords out just the same as .46 speed overlords.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	PiG:	totally agree no way will queen energy go through
	aLtNinja:	Good analysis also agree

[Meatex]

overlord speed buff is actually necessary on some maps as it can be near impossible to get overlord into position against decent terrans. Not to mention you'll get to see a little bit more making the ovie sac potentially less useless.

Queen energy sounds dumb - only reason i can see for this is to encourage terrans to use hellions properly in mid leagues. Cause this buff doesn't help queens defend retardlions that don't care about creep spread at present or map control and essentially auto win if your queen is 1 pixel out of position.
Queen ground dmg buff I think would be better in helping defend bunker cheese and hellions.

Obs I guess I can understand as with lower build time protoss don't have to get that first obs as urgently in case terran is going clock banshee. But then again im not sure

[SanG]

One of the worst balance changes ever -_-

[inFeZa]

oh yeah... wow i'm an idiot i was only thinking the first queen that gets 50 energy but its every queen! wow.

[TheGentleman]

I'm no M or GM player so I'm not going to claim these changes are imbalanced.

But in my opinion 50 starting energy on every queen is a bit much. Maybe 35-40 starting energy? That way new queens can only inject or spawn creep tumours immediately... but they're not far off 50 energy should they wish to do both or transfuse.

Just my 2 cents.

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by TheGentleman

But in my opinion 50 starting energy on every queen is a bit much. Maybe 35-40 starting energy? .

But then if you're ontop of your injects like you should be then you'll always have that extra useless energy sitting around.

[Zepph]

Yessssyesyesyeayesyrybcdisvusfhvbjrenh. I like this very very much.

[iM tgun]

Overlord change yay, queen change is ******* retardedly overpowered for zerg.

[Peleus]

I don't think the queen change will be as big as people are expecting creep wise. As was posted on TL, here is a picture of before patch and after patch.




The biggest limiting factor in creep will still be the APM of the player. It may make a small difference if they are 100% on top of tumors all the time, but realistitically outside of the very top levels it won't happen.

I'd say early queen ramp blocks in ZvZ will be one of the most significant changes to it, otherwise not that big of a deal.... or at least not as much as everyone is making out.

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:	conclusive evidence
	Crankenstein:	useless

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Peleus

I don't think the queen change will be as big as people are expecting creep wise. As was posted on TL, here is a picture of before patch and after patch.




The biggest limiting factor in creep will still be the APM of the player. It may make a small difference if they are 100% on top of tumors all the time, but realistitically outside of the very top levels it won't happen.

I'd say early queen ramp blocks in ZvZ will be one of the most significant changes to it, otherwise not that big of a deal.... or at least not as much as everyone is making out.

Those pictures actually mean less than nothing. Like, deadset useless. It's more the fact that you don't need to make a decision between injecting or spreading creep, or make a decision to get extra queens early on to spread creep. It will also be an issue in ZvZ, where a transfuse on a spine can be the difference between holding off a ling/bane allin, or not.

It's also going to make late-game Zv* even stronger. You get queens to reinforce your broodlord army, now you get queens with instant transfuses? Awesome.

Quick Comments

Stallion:

very true and smart

[eCKo`Switch]

I love the overlord speed buff, easier scouting will help immensely. I doubt the queen buff will remain, you'll pretty much be able to beat double stargate/2port banshee etc without scouting it, seeing as you can now buy transfuses.

Quick Comments

zenabi:

Finally using sc2sea account!

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by tgun

It's also going to make late-game Zv* even stronger. You get queens to reinforce your broodlord army, now you get queens with instant transfuses? Awesome.

Broodlords are good enough by themselves... i don't want to deal with this T_T ㄴㅇㄴ

[TADivinity]

I mean, if the Queen energy goes through, I'd be happy to trade it for a reversal on the Neural nerf?

[inFeZa]

Stargate openers are gonna be hard now T_T.

[Stallion]

Originally Posted by SQL.inFeZa

Stargate openers are gonna be hard now T_T.

stargates are for more than just doing initial damage but i agree makes them basically impossible to do damge is hard enough as it is to do more then a drone or 2 and a queen if lucky.

[ROOTPetraeus]

As a Zerg, this is the first patch I am excited about The queen update is huge...

[darkphoenix22]

ok.....queens get 50 energy, and HT get the amulet upgrade back mwhahahahahahahahaheheheheheheeeeeeeeeeeeee....... .jkjkjkjk, =3

[NvJazBas]

More ZvZs incoming in SEA tourneys..

And the patch effects ZvZ ALOT. Mutas becomes easier to hold with late scout, all ins becoming really weak vs hatch first etc

Quick Comments

Xenomorph:

my thoughts exactly

[RicocheT]

Terran doesn't get nerfed in a patch for once.
Terrans everywhere rejoice.

Zerg Queens with 50 energy? Oh dear DRG 4 queen opener will be so gay, creep spread as it is is fine now.

Would love to see Blizz look into T3 viability for TvP =[

Quick Comments

Bloodmyst:

Terran did get nerfed, indirectly.

[PiG]

Transfuse on queens as soon as they pop lol!

[Bloodmyst]

Seriously, has blizzard completely forgotten that there is a race called Terran?

After the countless threads appearing on sites such as TL with Terrans complaining about lategame T v Z and T v P, Blizzard thinks it's a good idea to buff Z/P early game?!?!!?

Early game is the only thing Terran has going for them right now...... from what I can see anyway.

But apparently "at the pro level" Terran is too strong in the early game.... what a joke.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Bloodmyst

Seriously, has blizzard completely forgotten that there is a race called Terran?

After the countless threads appearing on sites such as TL with Terrans complaining about lategame T v Z and T v P, Blizzard thinks it's a good idea to buff Z/P early game?!?!!?

Early game is the only thing Terran has going for them right now...... from what I can see anyway.

But apparently "at the pro level" Terran is too strong in the early game.... what a joke.

As a terran who complained a lot about late game zerg to many of the people I talk to about the game, I haven't felt this way for a while. In fact, the main way I lose TvZ atm is to early game all-ins by the zerg. Roach/Baneling shenanigans and the like.

If you are having so much trouble that you think it's not playable, then you are either top 20 GM playing against glade and co. every single match or you're simply not playing the matchup right... (don't get me wrong, if a zerg ever does get to a particularly obnoxious ball of almost pure infestor/corruptor/broodlord I have no idea what beats it, but if you can't pressure at all while the zerg takes 6 base that's another issue too)

Quick Comments

	Crankenstein:
	ToRPandarine:	<3
	zenabi:	♥

[SanG]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

As a terran who complained a lot about late game zerg to many of the people I talk to about the game, I haven't felt this way for a while. In fact, the main way I lose TvZ atm is to early game all-ins by the zerg. Roach/Baneling shenanigans and the like.

If you are having so much trouble that you think it's not playable, then you are either top 20 GM playing against glade and co. every single match or you're simply not playing the matchup right... (don't get me wrong, if a zerg ever does get to a particularly obnoxious ball of almost pure infestor/corruptor/broodlord I have no idea what beats it, but if you can't pressure at all while the zerg takes 6 base that's another issue too)

Not everyone's as gosu as u era

[Bloodmyst]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

As a terran who complained a lot about late game zerg to many of the people I talk to about the game, I haven't felt this way for a while. In fact, the main way I lose TvZ atm is to early game all-ins by the zerg. Roach/Baneling shenanigans and the like.

If you are having so much trouble that you think it's not playable, then you are either top 20 GM playing against glade and co. every single match or you're simply not playing the matchup right... (don't get me wrong, if a zerg ever does get to a particularly obnoxious ball of almost pure infestor/corruptor/broodlord I have no idea what beats it, but if you can't pressure at all while the zerg takes 6 base that's another issue too)

My last post was pretty much just "generally" speaking from a Terrans point of view based on what I have read on forums and games I have observed.

On a personal note, I don't think that faster overlord will affect much at all in terms of scouting. A zerg can spot a reactor hellion opening a mile away without the overlord anyways.

Quiet fankly, what annoys me the most here is the fact Blizzard keeps buffing Toss over and over again whilst "consistently ignoring" the troubles Terran has lategame. But apparently it doesn't matter at my level because of macro.... nevermind the "fact" the game is being made easier for Protoss.... again.....

[inFeZa]

Triple nydus... gogogogo

[Hydroid]

I think that if Blizzard wants to allow a faster start to creep spread in your base so you can't be walled in wit 3pylon/2bunker maybe they should just reduce how much energy a creep tumor costs to 15. That way you can purely delay your first or 2nd inject slightly to afford it quickly, but then have the creep tumour run off a cooldown like you see in the MOBA and MMO genres. So you can only lay down another creep tumour in 40 seconds and it just costs 15 energy each time.

Personally I think that seems like a far less drastic change and it still leaves some of the choice or sacrifice in there for the zerg to be able to get a faster start to their creep. Ultimately this won't make your total creep spread any better.

[SanG]

Originally Posted by Hydroid

I think that if Blizzard wants to allow a faster start to creep spread in your base so you can't be walled in wit 3pylon/2bunker maybe they should just reduce how much energy a creep tumor costs to 15. That way you can purely delay your first or 2nd inject slightly to afford it quickly, but then have the creep tumour run off a cooldown like you see in the MOBA and MMO genres. So you can only lay down another creep tumour in 40 seconds and it just costs 15 energy each time.

Personally that seems like a far less drastic change and it still leaves some of the choice or sacrifice in there for the zerg to be able to get a faster start to their creep. Ultimately this won't make your total creep spread any better.

You do know one of the purpose of doing helion expand is to check what zerg's doing with their queen so we can learn an all in's coming or not....

Now, we can only rely on the number of spinecrawlers and the existence of evo/s

The biggest problem tho is the protoss lategame being untouched.

[Hydroid]

Originally Posted by NaZSang

You do know one of the purpose of doing helion expand is to check what zerg's doing with their queen so we can learn an all in's coming or not....

Now, we can only rely on the number of spinecrawlers and the existence of evo/s

The biggest problem tho is the protoss lategame being untouched.

So what about my queen use would indicate that an allin is coming? I would honestly like to know this because I personally very rarely allin, in addition I don't start spreading creep until my 3rd queen pops out anyway so I always have constant injects from the time my first queen is out. You aren't concerned with creep spread if you are going for an early allin so where would that energy be going if it isn't being injected to the hatcheries?

[jtxgaming]

Originally Posted by Hydroid

So what about my queen use would indicate that an allin is coming? I would honestly like to know this because I personally very rarely allin, in addition I don't start spreading creep until my 3rd queen pops out anyway so I always have constant injects from the time my first queen is out. You aren't concerned with creep spread if you are going for an early allin so where would that energy be going if it isn't being injected to the hatcheries?

Transfusing zerlgings, because each zergling is important in an all-in, a zergling can potentially become a baneling!

[Crankenstein]

Originally Posted by Hydroid

So what about my queen use would indicate that an allin is coming? I would honestly like to know this because I personally very rarely allin, in addition I don't start spreading creep until my 3rd queen pops out anyway so I always have constant injects from the time my first queen is out. You aren't concerned with creep spread if you are going for an early allin so where would that energy be going if it isn't being injected to the hatcheries?

Taken directly from my SC2 notebook:

No crawler and both queens injecting – most likely all in
1 crawler + 1creep tumour or similar - standard
Tumours, crawlers and 2 chambers – I can be greedy

[Hydroid]

Originally Posted by Crankenstein

Taken directly from my SC2 notebook:

No crawler and both queens injecting – most likely all in
1 crawler + 1creep tumour or similar - standard
Tumours, crawlers and 2 chambers – I can be greedy

Haha, I must be a really hard read then. Because No crawler and both queens injecting is my most standard of standard plays when not going for an allin. And if I scout pressure or feel unsafe I'll go for a crawler.

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by NaZSang

The biggest problem tho is the protoss lategame being untouched

yeah... buff carriers

[jtxgaming]

Originally Posted by SQL.inFeZa

yeah... buff carriers

what are carriers?

[x5_Potter]

Thor and BC going to cooldown based as opposed to energy would be nice for TvP.

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by jtxgaming

what are carriers?

i dont know but buff them

[jtxgaming]

Originally Posted by SQL.inFeZa

i dont know but buff them

They should add a massive protoss air unit, that shoots little fighter planes which shoot lasers. I reckon every protoss player would rush that unit and ultimately win flawlessly

[jtxgaming]

I think terran are being 'ignored' is due to the fact that during the end of beta - early release of sc2, terran was consistently nerfed. Now that they have been nerfed considerably from beta, the other races are somewhat more 'unbalanced'.

[HuT]

Overlord change is perfect, other two are stupid changes.

I don't know why they insist on cutting production time for the race with the ability to speed up production with a spell

Also as tgun said, **** the tumour and inject early, I'm worried about instant transfuse queens in the lategame.. Gg Protoss air Zvp aswell

Quick Comments

Crankenstein:

[Meatex]

Hmmmm I think late game t in tvz is fine.
Most of what I hear is its the most balanced mu
Though personally I hate early game zvt and apparently so do protoss

[wTlzq]

this is gonna change zvz in the early game

[iM yang]

I wonder if this will change pvz a lot... we'll see i suppose

[inFeZa]

lol epic yang posts!

[FSBenAD]

Im really keen to see how this will play out in pro games..

As for myself personally, since Im only platinum and thus not good at this game, it wont really affect me lol

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by BenAD

Im really keen to see how this will play out in pro games..

As for myself personally, since Im only platinum and thus not good at this game, it wont really affect me lol

It could still affect you, just wait and see!

Quick Comments

Frogmite:

yang's fury posting

[inFeZa]

pro zergs are going to have a blast imo.
no choice between an inject or tumour.
also i remember some zerg saying that there was an option to inject or tumour and it would be best to inject coz u 'cant spend the larvae. but now you can just save up the larva and inject and you win both ways!

[Bloodmyst]

Ah-HA!.... I just realised!

They heard Flash was going to be converting to SC2.... so in return they have indirectly nerfed Terran.

Yep, no need to thank me... smart thinking huh? It's all politics boys!

[nGenLight]

I speak for Protoss that the obs change is actually pretty huge. The amount of time I build my Robo at 6:00, have my first obs half way across the map, rallied to my opponents base on a huge map, and a cloaked banshee flying in to either my natural or main scoring more probe kills then it should (since I already prepped with a 6minute Robo), when I only have 0 or 1 obs (it like a guess whether the banshee will come to the natural or main)out in my base. Also this means that in PvZ, obs scouting is now very viable for the earlier quick 2 obs and more building time for that body-builder Protoss unit.

[SLCN.Kez]

The biggest thing about obs change imo is now when vsing mutas and you have a robo you can pretty quickly get out those 4-5 obs around the map to see incoming mutas, same thing for pvt if you have a robo but want to go a more zealot archon type composition. Queen change either wont go through or will only make a difference early game, tbh by the time you get to late game all your queens have a bunch of energy already, and if creep is still around most of the map to justify making extra 50 energy queens then your opponent hasnt done a very good job denying creep

[neKo]

Originally Posted by kez

tbh by the time you get to late game all your queens have a bunch of energy already,

Not if you're Grandmaster

[mGGDrGooSe]

Apparent update from SOTG is queen energy change removed, ground range changed from 3 to 5. Can't find the link though. Anyone? Much better option for combating the bunker and pylon blocking without screwing the rest of the game. I dont think the range should otherwise matter outside of rushes and all-in situations. Which im fine with getting rid of any and all viable all-ins.

Edit: Sheth made some good points about the queen range. It will be much better about hellion run-bys, which I dont think was actually a problem anyway (as in should have been able to prevent the run by previously - so that part sucks for terran i guess). But I think it might force a scan for hellions to take out the early tumours, as the queens can now umbrella them. Also 1 stalker 1 zealot will be easier to defend. Obviously workers will be easier to kill as well, so people will actually have to micro their workers instead of just kiting the queen all day.

So I still don't see any real impact beyond the early game?

Edit2:
http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/231323130#13
Link to change announcement for those interested.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Drgoose

Apparent update from SOTG is queen energy change removed, ground range changed from 3 to 5. Can't find the link though. Anyone? Much better option for combating the bunker and pylon blocking without screwing the rest of the game. I dont think the range should otherwise matter outside of rushes and all-in situations. Which im fine with getting rid of any and all viable all-ins.

Edit: Sheth made some good points about the queen range. It will be much better about hellion run-bys, which I dont think was actually a problem anyway (as in should have been able to prevent the run by previously - so that part sucks for terran i guess). But I think it might force a scan for hellions to take out the early tumours, as the queens can now umbrella them. Also 1 stalker 1 zealot will be easier to defend. Obviously workers will be easier to kill as well, so people will actually have to micro their workers instead of just kiting the queen all day.

So I still don't see any real impact beyond the early game?

Queens are already really good at defending that early game stuff in TvZ at least anyway. This really shits all over being able to poke up a zergs ramp with 4 marines when I'm gasless expanding (they love to be greedy with no spine and 2-4 lings for a while then they scout gasless... love walking up a ramp and killing the 4 lings, but 2 extra range means queens will get a lot more hits in while you are trying to micro back off creep... ><

[wTlzq]

i agree with the queen ground range increase. Makes defending against hellions and bunker bunker rushes more manageable. makes breaking out of 3 pylon wall easier as well( although if u are walled in, the game is probably lost)

[Paroxysm]

I thought april fools was last month?

[mGGDrGooSe]

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...133724?page=20
it is being discussed in the feedback thread, I just can't find the original link. Presumably the changes was made in a post in that thread instead of a separate thread. It's 20 pages long, I aint looking for it.

Also Sheth mentioned linking it to JP in skype. I trust Sheth, he's cute.

[Bloodmyst]

....... I don't even know what to say anymore.

What I find odd, is this has just popped up outta no where. Was Zerg early game and Protoss early scouting such an issue that had to be dealt with promtly? Considering the vast amounts of Terrans and Protoss players (Pro & noobies) screaming out for blizzard to actually do something with the T v P mu?

Protoss - Complain about early - midgame aggression. 1-1-1 has already been nerfed, does the ealier obs nerf the 1-1-1 even more now?

Terran - Screaming out from the top of their lungs to fix the god damn T v P lategame. I think this is twice now Blizzard has said they are keeping a "close eye" on this. I call bullshit.

I guess I have to be greatful this patch isn't buffing the other races while directly nerfing Terran at the same time.......

P.S - I used to love kiting queens early game with hellions.... looks like I won't be bothering with that anymore. Ah well, apm to use else where I guess.

[inFeZa]

PvT is strange because i feel that protoss have adapted to the playstyles that terran do over and over again. There was no previous fact that terran was stonger early game, its the fact that the unit compositions protoss needs to deal with your terranistic bullshit wasn't figured out.
+1 immortal range and 10s off an observer aint gonna change shit vs a 1-1-1, its still strong, and it's still going to kill protoss' that don't know how to deal with it, or if you have great unit control.

On a side note im glad im seeing some different approaches from terran these days.

[NvPinder]

Updated OP with the updates regarding the queen changes.

[inFeZa]

that is much better! well done blizz. (seriously)

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

The overlord change is absolutely ridiculous.

It is so so so much faster (20% jesus christ) than before, you actually can not hide anything from zerg anymore.

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

siiiick

[inFeZa]

is it that significant? T_T overlords are supposed to be slower than terran buildings! D:

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by SQL.inFeZa

is it that significant? T_T overlords are supposed to be slower than terran buildings! D:

With a forge fast expand, 1 stalker can not kill an overlord fast enough for it to run through the entire of antiga shipyards main and natural.

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by Tazerenix

With a forge fast expand, 1 stalker can not kill an overlord fast enough for it to run through the entire of antiga shipyards main and natural.

wat
thats pretty significant.

also pinder might be right about those slow ovy drops ?lol?

[TADivinity]

Originally Posted by Tazerenix

With a forge fast expand, 1 stalker can not kill an overlord fast enough for it to run through the entire of antiga shipyards main and natural.

I HIGHLY doubt that. Genuanely thought you were trolling at first. 20% sounds more significant that what it is. Zerg *can* already get OLs to the back of your base during FFE & before stalker pops if they want, so I really think youre over reacting..

Quick Comments

PiG:

[mGGDaedalus]

The queen range change sounds much more reasonable than the energy thing and I guess will be helpful. But I never realised anyone considered there to be any problems with the queen in the first place?

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by FaDeJoshboy

The queen range change sounds much more reasonable than the energy thing and I guess will be helpful. But I never realised anyone considered there to be any problems with the queen in the first place?

Exactly, I don't even know why they are buffing the queen.

[Snx.Mufasa]

...

you guys do realise that blizzard aren't addressing any specific problems with the queen buff... and the point of it is to make the early game easier for zerg?

aslo @tazerenix... im not sure if you tested that yourself or heard it from sheth on sotg but he said the overlord would scout the whole main... not both bases im pretty sure.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by iVnMufasa

...

you guys do realise that blizzard aren't addressing any specific problems with the queen buff... and the point of it is to make the early game easier for zerg?

aslo @tazerenix... im not sure if you tested that yourself or heard it from sheth on sotg but he said the overlord would scout the whole main... not both bases im pretty sure.

Assuming you react as you see it with your stalker sititng at your natural, it can go from the gas in your main to within a couple of hexes of your nexus at your natural before dying. With two overlords (which is no longer unreasonable as you can get them to the protoss main 20% faster) there is absolutely no way to hide anything from zerg going FFE anymore, and they will get one of the overlords out.

I have tested it.

Quick Comments

TASlowHands:

Wow a minor buff screws up your all ins. boo hoo

[Snx.Mufasa]

Originally Posted by Tazerenix

Assuming you react as you see it with your stalker sititng at your natural, it can go from the gas in your main to within a couple of hexes of your nexus at your natural before dying. With two overlords (which is no longer unreasonable as you can get them to the protoss main 20% faster) there is absolutely no way to hide anything from zerg going FFE anymore, and they will get one of the overlords out.

I have tested it.

ah k fair enough.

i might add though that i would imagine there wouldn't be many maps where 1 overlord is a guaranteed scout.

2 overlords on the other hand should be able to easily on any map... but considering the costs and having to replace the two overlords i think its a fair trade.

[TADivinity]

Originally Posted by iVnMufasa

ah k fair enough.

i might add though that i would imagine there wouldn't be many maps where 1 overlord is a guaranteed scout.

2 overlords on the other hand should be able to easily on any map... but considering the costs and having to replace the two overlords i think its a fair trade.

This. Well said.

Again, I think you are over-reacting - its not much different to what already exists in regards to 'seeing everything in an FFE'. That 20% change is only significant over long-distance maps, i.e. Tal'Darim

[TCPKiaSu]

What!?but my pvz is already sht as hell!

[inFeZa]

if its un-killable before it can get into your base and see the whole thing, gonna be super hard to hide tech vs a zerg. DT rush will have to always be proxied.

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by SQL.inFeZa

if its un-killable before it can get into your base and see the whole thing, gonna be super hard to hide tech vs a zerg. DT rush will have to always be proxied.

Look's like you're just going to have to . . . *Gulp* . . . play macro.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Look's like you're just going to have to . . . *Gulp* . . . play macro.

Because no zerg ever has hidden tech.

[x5_Bard]

There is an updated version here : http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3389261389

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by nRvBard

There is an updated version here : http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3389261389

I can tell it's fake right as soon as I read that they're buffing .

[iM SundeR]

Awwwwhhh yeah hook me up with dem queen range

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by SundeR

Awwwwhhh yeah hook me up with dem queen range

Don't really mind the range buff to be honest. It isn't affecting their AA attack and I don't go 4gate +1 anymore. I guess it will help defend marine pressure ;P

[iM SundeR]

Originally Posted by Tazerenix

Don't really mind the range buff to be honest. It isn't affecting their AA attack and I don't go 4gate +1 anymore. I guess it will help defend marine pressure ;P

its not just that its everything early game. denying worker scouting in the first 3 minutes is pretty crucial at times.

zvz helps defend baneling busts early

i could go on for days

its huuuuuuuuuuuuuge

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by Tazerenix

Don't really mind the range buff to be honest. It isn't affecting their AA attack and I don't go 4gate +1 anymore. I guess it will help defend marine pressure ;P

Uh oh watch out, the queen will deal out 1 damage a bit earlier to your zealot before roach/ling defends the attack.. - I don't see how 1 queen having 2 more range negates +1 4 gate :P. Will help with Terran and Zerg early game all ins the most probably.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by EdgE

Uh oh watch out, the queen will deal out 1 damage a bit earlier to your zealot before roach/ling defends the attack.. - I don't see how 1 queen having 2 more range negates +1 4 gate :P. Will help with Terran and Zerg early game all ins the most probably.

I don't 4gate +1 cos I can never ever seem to do damage :P. Yea, I think it will help most with fast rax pressure, 11/11s and 12/14's.

[ROOT`iaguz]

It's difficult to play macro against a race that gets 3 bases and 70 drones without having to do anything, especially one who knows no fear because his starting overlord gets to see everything.

And yea, 5 range queens would make them stupidly good at holding marines hellions and especially reapers early game. I don't see how my similarly ranged hellions can keep creep forced back if they have to fight queens they cannot kite.

EDIT- and if they can't keep creep back... why even make hellions at all?

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

Reaper build time back to what it was then, so they are still an early game threat?

[PiG]

Zerenix I think you're exaggerating how easy it is for OL's to see everything. If the toss is smart he can usually tell where the overlords will come from and place buildings to avoid being scouted. But I think the idea of the game is that you're always able to scout what you're opponent's doing if you commit enough.

Like... basically if the Protoss is pressuring with his early units then he shouldn't be able to deny overlord scouting at the same time. Whereas if he's being a sneaky snake and doing something that relies on not getting scouted well then it's not that hard to keep a stalker on the edge of your base near this tech that you need to hide so badly. And if they come from the other angle then you can usually get down there well in time to stop it.

In short, I doubt it's overlords seeing everything that's really your problem in the mu.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by PiG

Zerenix I think you're exaggerating how easy it is for OL's to see everything. If the toss is smart he can usually tell where the overlords will come from and place buildings to avoid being scouted. But I think the idea of the game is that you're always able to scout what you're opponent's doing if you commit enough.

Like... basically if the Protoss is pressuring with his early units then he shouldn't be able to deny overlord scouting at the same time. Whereas if he's being a sneaky snake and doing something that relies on not getting scouted well then it's not that hard to keep a stalker on the edge of your base near this tech that you need to hide so badly. And if they come from the other angle then you can usually get down there well in time to stop it.

In short, I doubt it's overlords seeing everything that's really your problem in the mu.

Well I'll just go SG every game regardless but I still feel like the overlord buff is unneeded.

Also, @Iaguz, I didn't think about the reaper. Blizzard really hates reapers lol.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Well the reaper basically sucks in TvZ right now anyway because zergs are super good at not losing any drones to the first one you make and deflecting the subsequent ones you make and then oh shit speed is finished. Not a big deal really but it's one thing that did come to mind.

[TAEdgE]

I still do get scared sometimes by reapers, especially proxy reapers. If they come just a bit faster and get in the bunker or get a few drone kills before the queen is actually made they could still be an option. They have their niche uses in TvT and TvP too, and 5 seconds off the build time wouldn't break anything in those matchups I would think... reapers are just my favorite Terran unit i want them to be made T_T.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by EdgE

I still do get scared sometimes by reapers, especially proxy reapers. If they come just a bit faster and get in the bunker or get a few drone kills before the queen is actually made they could still be an option. They have their niche uses in TvT and TvP too, and 5 seconds off the build time wouldn't break anything in those matchups I would think... reapers are just my favorite Terran unit i want them to be made T_T.

You should play against spook.

[UHF]

a clip showing overlord speed comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQA-yCqZGVQ&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQA-yCqZGVQ&feature=g-upl

[Meatex]

queen range buff is not going to do a hell of a lot because their attack is so bloody weak
it will mean you won't nee micro to prevent your queen from running out in front of your roaches to attack and will help with the retarded pylon block bs but otherwise I can fathom it being that great a deal

[Dox]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

queen range buff is not going to do a hell of a lot because their attack is so bloody weak
it will mean you won't nee micro to prevent your queen from running out in front of your roaches to attack and will help with the retarded pylon block bs but otherwise I can fathom it being that great a deal

It actually has one hell of an impact in all matchups. Defending against Hellion harass, Ling/Bane and 2-base Gateway timings will be a tad easier.

[NvPinder]

All the terrans whining also need to realize that you will soon have flash playing your race...

...

Yeah lets just let that sink in a little.

Quick Comments

FsDronesInJail:

[FsDronesInJail]

Hell its about time!!

[cruxSpoon]

Originally Posted by NvPinder

All the terrans whining also need to realize that you will soon have flash playing your race...

This is exciting indeed. Unfortunately, I think all Flash is going to show us is, how we need to be harrasing every minute with 400 Blizzard APM and perfect macro, something only attainable if you play sc2 12 hrs a day in a pro-gaming house.

I not qq, just saying.

On the note of everyone thinking T Imba - Terran is the middle child race, stop hating ffs We got good stuff from both other races, and our race depends on aggression and timings far more than other races. Hence its only fair that terran have a higher skill ceiling. Do I know what im talking about? Prolly not, but maybe someone out there can take this and run with it.

On Topic - Obs speed increase = faster collosus = Squirtle lol'ing hard...just saying

EDIT: Just saying....

Quick Comments

TABottles:

Macroing + Babysitting an army (or else it dies instantly) to an a move of banes or a protoss and "t" button.. so imba terran :P

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by cruxSpoon

This is exciting indeed. Unfortunately, I think all Flash is going to show us is, how we need to be harrasing every minute with 400 Blizzard APM and perfect macro, something only attainable if you play sc2 12 hrs a day in a pro-gaming house.

I not qq, just saying.

And as long as that remains possible we don't actually have an excuse sadly.

[nirvAnA]

I suspect these sudden weird early game queen buffs are a pre-emptive measure to handle one of the early game cheese possibilities that is going to be introduced in HOTS, so they are seeing what is feasible for WOL that won't disrupt the balance so much.

Quick Comments

TABottles:

Clever

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Originally Posted by cruxSpoon

On Topic - Obs speed increase = faster collosus = Squirtle lol'ing hard...just saying

What a misinformed opinion.

No one ever has to wait for observers to finish before starting colossus production. If you are going for a colossus timing and your bay finishes whilst you still have observers in production, its a terrible build.

Quick Comments

cruxSpoon:

apologies >< Collosus scare me is all :p

[inFeZa]

okay its not that much significant, but its enough for those times when tasteless and artosis yell "OH THE OVERLORD IS HE GOING TO SEE IT" and the answer will probably be 'yes'

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

I loled

[TABottles]

Always keepin' the Terran man down..

[Bloodmyst]

Oh man, I so had to post this here! (Hope it hasn't alread been posted yet.....)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=w1rfRwIuXTg

Highway tooo the DANGER ZONE!!!! lol.

Quick Comments

	Daboo:	LOL That was awesome!!
	TABottles:	******* LOL
	x5.Revenant:	Awww my stomach hurts LOL
	Rageboredguy:

[cruxSpoon]

You know how we were all like, Flash is going to come teach us how to terran?

https://twitter.com/#!/Beastyqt/stat...56204247044097