[faithHunter]

I've been trying out mech in TvP lately on ladder. I've won a few games with it, but all of those games are probably won because the enemy didn't make immortals or those unit that "counters" mech play. But should the opposing protoss play well and respond well against my mech play, the Protoss will usually win.

The reason why I've been going mech against protoss lately is because of one simple reason: Terran has been struggling against late game Protoss should the Terran go Bio with some Viking and Ghost Support. Because of that I decided to find another way out of this "ordeal" and try out mech against protoss.

According to a TL article I've read about mech in TvP, you should rush to Thors early game to defend against rushes, because you can "mass repair" the Thor with SCVs. 1 or 2 Thors and a couple of Marines in a bunker is sufficient to defend against most all-ins/rushes, according to the text. I've been doing exactly that when I attempt to go mech vs protoss.

But the problem is when the Protoss goes blink stalkers and starts denying your expansions, going to your base and blinking up your main, sniping a few structures and blinking back down and retreating when my tanks and thors are about to arrive. This becomes a problem, since you won't be able to keep up with macro with the protoss if they just keep on denying your expansions, and also if you leave a couple of tanks in each expansion, they just blink next to them, kill them and kill your expansion.

Another problem I've found while going Mech vs Protoss is this one annoying little prick they call the 'Immortal' (no offense fellow es ) Sure, you can land EMPs on them to drain their shield, but they can still deal 50 damage to your mech army and kill them. Also, Stargate units are also pretty good against mech, especially Carriers, since we don't have the Goliaths back in BW to handle them. Thors can't just fulfill the role of anti air like Goliaths used to when going mech.

So far, I've found 2 main problems with mech in TvP:

1. Blink Stalkers are way too mobile against your mech army, they can snipe expansions and force you to unsiege your tanks and move away, which rises the potential of being out of position should the main protoss army attack yours. Maybe you could get a couple of bunkers at every expansion and put marines in it. When the blink stalkers try to harass, pull a couple of scvs and try and repair the bunkers.

2. Immortals and Carriers are really good against mech.

I'm sure that there are much more problems that mech has against protoss that I personally haven't faced yet. But those 2 major problems are what I have found so far. If there is a problem that I haven't listed yet, could you please post it as a reply and tell me why so that we could figure out a solution for it?

Thanks in advance.

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

[simon]

honestly there is no use exploring mech vs protoss currently as its just bad. even the great go0dy doesnt mech tvp anymore because its hopeless. that a lone should tell you all you need to know.

i suggest working on your army and unit control(ghosts, vikings, kiting) and chosing the correct position to fight in and go back to bio.

[ROOT`iaguz]

The big problem mech in TvP is that it's really dumb and you shouldn't do it ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever.

Ever.

The succinct answer as to why is because everything Protoss has, except for sentries, are good in some meaningful fashion.

[SLCN.Kez]

So youre saying we shouldnt do it ever iaguz?

[simon]

as iaguz said they can build almost anything and it counters mech.

[HuT]

See the gateway?

It counters mech.

See the stargate?

It counter mech.

See the robo?

Jesus ******* christ this counter mech.

See the templar archives?

OMGWTFALLMYSHITISOVERRUN.

Quick Comments

	simon:	TT
	NDG.Stitch:
	ToRVenom:	Can only Rep once for this :(

[sRDreaM]

I've been copying what Iaguz did in one of his stream games and went BC/Ghost into the bio composition =/ emp and yamato the collosus lol xD

Totally agree with what HuT said above

I think the biggest problem with mech would be that it takes ages to replenish even with bio it's still difficult to replenish against a protoss and most of the important mech units have energy which templar comes in and feedback

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

The big problem mech in TvP is that it's really dumb and you shouldn't do it ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever.

Ever.

The succinct answer as to why is because everything Protoss has, except for sentries, are good in some meaningful fashion.

Maybe with the addition of the giant thor mech jesus terrans will be able to use mech.

Also, goliaths and battle hellions. But mainly the giant thor.

[HuT]

To re-emphasize

Mech worked in BW because (basically

- Tanks were better (and 2 supply!)
- You had mines

Leave 5+ tanks, turrets and 10+ mines on one side of the map, that shit locked down all game long baby.

Leave 5+ tanks and turrets alone and watch as zealots kill 5 tanks and replace the lost zealots with 2 warpins zzz. Mech is the opposite of bio (obviously) so at any point your army can only ever together or you risk losing little bits when / where you cant afford to. You cant afford to lock down parts of a map to prevent Toss from harassing expansions and such.

If there were mines in the game, maybe, but right now, mech is a bad bad bad build.

(Except for Thor Hellion Banshee Marine which works only on maps with straight pushing lines)

Quick Comments

sRDreaM:

Vulture were great units to protect tanks unlike hellions

[dippa]

mech in theory sounds nice because upgrades scale much much better on high tier units (see how hard archons/colossi rape with 3-3, ultras on 5-3, 3-3 battlecruisers and so on).

but protoss have too many disruptive options to stop you from even getting the mix of what you want? want to try and defend a 3rd on korhal? hf vs chargelot archon. wanna thor his ass? enjoy watching a 50/150 unit take away 500hp in the blink of an eye with feedback.

and that's just the army issues, not getting into the problems of gas: you need at least 3 bases to have enough production to not DIE, but it is completely impractical to try and defend everything when:

a) tanks always have to be in the PERFECT position
b) hellions no good vs blink stalkers (or stalkers in general, only good for run-bys)
c) hellions and tanks both suck against archons anyway, which can tank 1000000000 shots from a planetary and just make your life miserable (since all the gas you are mining will be dumped into tanks/vikings and maybe thors)

give mech another try when heart of the swarm is released, dont bother until then.

[dippa]

oh, and to quantify why tanks were better in original BW:

70 damage in siege mode

sc2?

35 damage to light units, or in other words, about 6 shots to kill a single zealot.

not worth it.

Quick Comments

EveMassacrisM:

Doesn't bw tank only do full 70(or 75?) dmg to mech ? It only does half of that which is around 37 to bio i believe.

[HuT]

Originally Posted by dippa

oh, and to quantify why tanks were better in original BW:

70 damage in siege mode

sc2?

35 damage to light units, or in other words, about 6 shots to kill a single zealot.

not worth it.

this x100, forgot to mention.

The problem with mech isnt killing of the armoured shit (immortals, stalkers etc), it's killing off shit that ISN'T armoured. Chargelot Archon is super ridiculous in this regard, because guess what Protoss do lategame after they trade? Max the **** out on Chargelot Archon which takes bugger all damage from Tanks.

Quick Comments

breadfan:

[simon]

as i was saying in the chatbox the nerf to blue flame was massive for mech. not to mention thors returning to energy based. even though mech wasnt strong to begin with blizzard has directly and indirectly nerfed mech over the past 12 months.

[sRDreaM]

I think adding mech units such as Raven/Viking/BC into the Marine/Marauder/Medivac/Ghost composition would benefit us alot more then going pure mech itself in late games. Like HuT said once toss trade with you they max out Chargelot and Archon really quickly and they would gladly trade zealots for tanks&hellions also it's way to gas intensive to build alot of factory vs gateways to quickly remax.

[nGenLight]

mech has no weakness, mech is the best.

Quick Comments

	dippa:	stop trying to con people into giving you free wins -_-
	ProAnnn:	no weakness yeah!!!
	x5.NotoriouS:

[TAScarecrow]

mech's just underused cause bio's so OP

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

mech is slightly less op than bio

[ROOT`iaguz]

God ******* dammit somehow this is turning into a real thread. Look we even have a poll!

MECH DOES NOT WORK. YOU ARE WASTING PRECIOUS TIME AND LADDER POINTS BY DOING IT INSTEAD OF BIO. IT'S NOT UNDERUSED OR ANYTHING, IT GOT USED AND THEN TERRANS LEARNED THAT MECH UNITS ARE UTTER TRASH THAT CANNOT KILL ANYTHING PROTOSS BECAUSE UNLIKE MECH VS ZERG AND MECH VS TERRAN WHEN YOU GET LIKE 15 SIEGE TANKS INSTEAD OF KILLING EVERYTHING, PROTOSS JUST LAUGH AT THAT AND A MOVE IT WITH IMMORTALS, CHARGELOTS AND ARCHONS. WHAT, 35 DAMAGE TO ONE 350 SHIELD ARCHON? THAT SOUNDS LIKE EFFICIENCY TO ME!

Quick Comments

|Erasmus|:

Bearded, wise man.

[Malik]

Originally Posted by SQL.HuT

this x100, forgot to mention.

The problem with mech isnt killing of the armoured shit (immortals, stalkers etc), it's killing off shit that ISN'T armoured. Chargelot Archon is super ridiculous in this regard, because guess what Protoss do lategame after they trade? Max the **** out on Chargelot Archon which takes bugger all damage from Tanks.

kinda a common misconception is that tanks did 70 damage to zealots in BW they actually do 35 damage per shot as it is classed as explosive and zealots are small units (therefore there is a -50% modiyer applied).

BTW ghost BFH = terrible terrible damage

in any case the main issue isnt mech vs P deathball its the economic ability to do this off a limited number of bases (relative to how much gas that needs to be gathered) which reduces the terrans ability to harrass with hellions. This means that P can take a limited number of bases max out and or create the perfect composition combine this witht the fact that pylons can just warp in on ur front door + the slow build up time of mech means Terran be dead yo.

read this for more info

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=321242

Quick Comments

	syfCabracan:	Yea, good point on the attack types, dragoons also did 1/2 damage to marines etc.
	EveMassacrisM:	I shoulda read the whole thread b4 commenting :p

[ROOT`iaguz]

They did do 70 damage to their 50 shields though. Really it's hard to compare tank damage because of the way units path and clump in this game compared to BW, Speedlots were very good vs tanks in BW though (we did have vultures and wonderful mines to counteract this though)

[Malik]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

They did do 70 damage to their 50 shields though. Really it's hard to compare tank damage because of the way units path and clump in this game compared to BW, Speedlots were overpowered vs everything in BW though (we did have vultures and wonderful mines to counteract this though)

i think you made a mistake with ur original post I fixed it for you ^^