[Strafe]

Just like Targa I won't let Benji in my games anymore, no matter what. Maybe this can be taken into consideration by Benji that his arrogance and blatant lack of respect for players he isn't familiar with really brought it this far and that it's not just talk.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by dippa

I don't really care about Benji's casting, I've only listened to it a couple of times so I can't really say one way or another.

My issue with Benji stems from his behaviour at the Battle.net Invitational last year at INTIME.

TAriichard got there early and was setting up all the computers, moderating the stream and making sure things ran smoothly.

I was there as press only, so I observed for the majority of the day and hung out with Richard a lot; I'd only joined TA a month or two ago, so I was still getting to know everyone.

After one of the matches, Benji came out from the caster's booth (a room on the opposite side of the venue from where the games were being played) and started asking Richard questions about the stream.

My problem was in the way that Benji asked the questions. They were extremely abrupt and incredibly rude for someone who had been working their arse off all day.

I don't doubt that Benji knew what he was doing and that he knows shitloads more than Richard about streaming. But the manner in which he spoke to someone who had been nothing but helpful and respectable was completely disgraceful.

I've seen and ran a lot of LAN events myself in various locations. Often it's necessary to be blunt and rude to players to stop them from wasting time. Nobody wants to go home after midnight. But admins should never talk to each other that way, and in nearly a decade of going to LANs for various games and events, I've never been as disgusted as how I saw Benji talk to Richard that day.

If it was just one time I wouldn't mind; stress etc. But it happened throughout the course of the day and I'll never forget the complete and utter lack of politeness and just gratitude that Richard was shown by SEA's Best Caster(TM).

You don't have to blow someone to show gratitude; just don't treat them like a piece of shit.

Could you please shoot me a PM describing this further? I can't comment on this without knowing the full story.

On the topic of the thread, there is only one thing I wish to add, which I think will come off as harsh, but that's just how I am.

You're a good play-by-play caster. You're an alright analytical caster. You don't play enough to understand the top tier well enough to call out players for being bad; you're able to recognise exceptional play (pulling scvs away from a scouting drone to simulate less workers to force an overreaction), but the same could easily be mistaken as bad play (omg he just misclicked his scvs away, wtf). I feel like pairing you up with a really good analytical caster (I'm talking like Artosis level: someone who just studies / practices the game) would do wonders, as you cast battles pretty well (although, don't try to build up battles which are clearly going to be landslides one way or the other; I understand that you're attempting to create hype, but it has an indirect effect of making you look as if you know much less about the game). I'm rambling, but I guess the focal point of my post would be, instead of getting a co-caster like Zeph (honestly, would be good with play-by-play, banter, etc in my opinion) find a co-caster who is crazy analytical.

Feel like I should re-iterate that this is all just my opinion, obviously not going to be 100% correct, and I am open to discussion.

Also, anyone flat out insulting him is a ****. You know who you are. *****.

[nGenLight]

Er Fourby.... regarding Dippa's post. I wasn't trying to say I disagree, but it was totally off track, this thread was supposed to help Benji, not find every thing he has ever done wrong to lynch him with. It felt like, OMG A BENJI THREAD *comes in to throw a stone at Benji*, not cool man.

The rep system is retarded because as long a post is cleverly constructed/or the player is well liked in the community, regardless of whether it was off topic or one-sided argument it gets alot of upvotes.

Quick Comments

	Bash:	Relevance! +1
	wolf:

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

The rep system is retarded because as long a post is cleverly constructed/or the player is well liked in the community, regardless of whether it was off topic or one-sided argument it gets alot of upvotes.

This is why I had my rep abilities (pos / neg) revoked: I told nirvana I thought it was stupid and just started neg / pos repping random posts because it honestly holds very little value.

EDIT: **** YOUUUUUUUUU

Quick Comments

	ROOT`iaguz:	but I still have this power at least.
	NvPinder:	Get a load of my power.
	iM yang:	POWER OVERWHELMING
	deL:	exactly what someone with no friends WOULD say! xD
	NvRossi:	Pelican
	Champi:	u mirin my rep aesthetics bro?
	cruxBsK:	coldPOWER
	TABiggun:	judas judaaaaaaaaaaas
	syfChadMann:	I like turtles
	TAScarecrow:	circle jerk ftw
	Bash:	so much circlejerking on rep comments. T.T
	Rockstar:
	Synizta:
	TAkrunch:	have some rep
	Cool30:	Rep POWER

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by tgun

This is why I had my rep abilities (pos / neg) revoked: I told nirvana I thought it was stupid and just started neg / pos repping random posts because it honestly holds very little value.

I tried to fight the law too man.

The law won.

Quick Comments

	TABjornbrandr:
	TAEdarus:	Breakin' rocks in the hot sun...

[nGenLight]

I like how Tgun and Nirvana stated the awesome things Benji is doing to go along with the usual criticism/advice - This is a much nicer/efficient way to make the stubborn guy that is Benji try to do things differently.

I don't see why every connection to Benji and arrogance has to be unearthed, neither are you making a new argument. It feels exactly the same as when people tried to find every little thing/anything to attack Kelly with.

Growing up as a child I always worked better with encouragement as opposed to constant criticism with not a word of praise of anything I'm doing right. Sometimes I wonder if you guys are really trying to help Benji out or just having a face. Because if it is the former than you might want to rethink your approach.

Quick Comments

	EveVendetta:	Agreed, there's also too much shooting down without giving of advice
	nirvAnA:
	Welshy:

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

I tried to fight the law too man.

The law won.

Well.. ****.

[dippa]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Er Fourby.... regarding Dippa's post. I wasn't trying to say I disagree, but it was totally off track, this thread was supposed to help Benji, not find every thing he has ever done wrong to lynch him with. It felt like, OMG A BENJI THREAD *comes in to throw a stone at Benji*, not cool man.

The rep system is retarded because as long a post is cleverly constructed/or the player is well liked in the community, regardless of whether it was off topic or one-sided argument it gets alot of upvotes.

That wasn't the point of my post; I was trying to point out something that I don't think Benji would have noticed (but I certainly did). Apparently it wasn't constructive because there wasn't anything positive in what I said, but there you go -_-

[nGenLight]

Ah I see my apologies. I would agree that Benji wouldn't have noticed it, and if I was Richard or yourself I'd feel pretty crappy too. I know this story myself and just felt like this wasn't the right place to deliver it - as it felt more like a lump than an advice. But I know how you work Alex, you always deliver very strong "ooomph" posts, which is actually quite entertianing. I just didn't enjoy it right here.

[dippa]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Ah I see my apologies. I would agree that Benji wouldn't have noticed it, and if I was Richard or yourself I'd feel pretty crappy too. I know this story myself and just felt like this wasn't the right place to deliver it - as it felt more like a lump than an advice. But I know how you work Alex, you always deliver very strong "ooomph" posts, which is actually quite entertianing. I just didn't enjoy it right here.

that's a good point.

here's some positive reinforcement ... I LOVE YOU RAY (no homo)

(but you are right, also I had to hit reply to notice your edit, fkn ninja)

[ProAnnn]

Like what i said before, there's no 1 week without drama in esports.

Quick Comments

fray`Alpha:

lol totoally agree

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

I like how Tgun and Nirvana stated the awesome things Benji is doing to go along with the usual criticism/advice - This is a much nicer/efficient way to make the stubborn guy that is Benji try to do things differently.

Growing up as a child I always worked better with encouragement as opposed to constant criticism with not a word of praise of anything I'm doing right. Sometimes I wonder if you guys are really trying to help Benji out or just having a face. Because if it is the former than you might want to rethink your approach.

This isn't kindergarten, and just because Benji acts like a child doesn't mean we will treat him as one. Seriously this is utterly ridiculous, I feel like you're trying to be a 'my little pony' character in this thread Ray.

This is the CRITICISM thread, people are going to criticize, we get it, Benji's getting drilled to shit in this thread, and it's been a looooooooooooooooooong time coming, and probably feels pretty shitty for him, but people have been telling him for a while that he needs to stop acting in certain ways and the community is finally fed up with him ignoring us as a whole.

I don't see why every connection to Benji and arrogance has to be unearthed, neither are you making a new argument. It feels exactly the same as when people tried to find every little thing/anything to attack Kelly with.

You could almost think of this thread as an intervention, everyone wants a go at calling out exactly what pisses them off about Benji's behavior. and TBH, since he's always shrugging it off as "just the same few people saying the same old thing", I think the more people that post and tell him how they feel, even if it is just rehashing what someone else said, the better.

Quick Comments

	nGenLight:	Just gotta agree to disagree on how to make someone better =/
	breadfan:	criticism is not just about highlighting the negatives though
	Fourby:
	TAEdarus:
	Rockstar:	interventions are a last resort usually reserved for extreme situations. They are typically composed of FRIENDS and FAMILY and even then they rarely work. This whole thread is a mass circlejerk and I personally can't believe it hasn't been locked.
	JaFF:	the cold hard truth

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Pinder

I think the more people that post and tell him how they feel, even if it is just rehashing what someone else said, the better.

Wouldn't have posted if not for this^^

I feel that Benji fills a very important role in the scene. He's a team guy. He's all about xG.

Someone (Pinder I think? too lazy to dig through sorry, should have posted this last night) said that Benji was "better" at ACL GC than at other LANs. I haven't been to other LANs he's been at, so my only impression was ACL GC, where I got no impression of arrogance or anything negative at all. I sat next to him and watched iaguz play GLaDe - he was just there, cheering on his team. This was only for a few matches, I was hardly in his back pocket the whole weekend, but I didn't at any point think poorly of the guy.

Honestly I feel his role in the scene is almost opposite to Dox. Dox is a community oriented type of guy. He puts everything in for the good of the community. Benji, on the other hand, focuses solely on xG.

I don't think that either of them is right or wrong. I feel they have different views on what eSports in SEA needs, and I'm sure they totally disagree with each other's views a lot of the time, but I honestly believe we need both.

In saying this, when casting I feel Benji needs to take off his xG hat and put on his neutral one. When you cast someone else's event, commentary should consider their interests first and foremost, and 99% of the time that means to be totally even handed in your commentary. I feel he can (and should) play the role of championing his team any other time. Ultimately, tournament administrators can have a lot of influence here, as they can just tell him what they want from him, and if he doesn't deliver that they can remove him as a caster for their event.

I feel Benji doesn't need to change if he goes ahead streams an "xG cast", or if he casts xG games and actually declares that this is the xG show, and his mission is to showcase the team.

I feel some steps toward improvement (on neutrality) might be:

- Not mentioning xG when they aren't playing more than any other team that is not playing (e.g. when Eve play TA, don't mention xG more than you mention say Herocraft)
- Highlighting more flaws in his own players' play and more positives in opponents (I agree that it can sound like "mafia is perfect, his opponent must have recently had his hands amputated"). It doesn't need to be totally even, but many people point out that they notice this.
- Not casting xG in events like SEACL at all. I don't think this should be enforced on Benji, but I think that if he wants to improve, he could voluntarily cast only other teams' games, at least for a little while

[iM yang]

I can't watch a lot of SEA casting, I get about 5 minutes into a game and then have to mute the stream. I can't stand incorrect calls on the game flow, so if you don't know what's likely to happen, don't say anything about it. That's the only thing I didn't see in this thread. Other than that, bias, swearing, negativity are all factors that make you heard to listen to for me.

[Unstable]

A couple of points I feel like I need to point out.

- You will never have a commentator who can remove all bias. They can tone it down but it will always be there, they are emotionally connected to those players. Be it Benji with xG me with FXO or artosis with his friends, clide, nestea ect. Tone it down, sure. Remove it, no.

Originally Posted by SQL.yang

I can't watch a lot of SEA casting, I get about 5 minutes into a game and then have to mute the stream. I can't stand incorrect calls on the game flow.

- When it comes to players who are high masters/grandmaster level you will never have a commentator who will be on your level unless it is another player but players cannot be casters and stay at their level there aren't enough hours in the day. There are ways that casters can communicate to be more neutral when calling plays, but everyone gets it wrong. yes even Apollo and Artosis from time to time. Reason being, casters must learn every match up intricately. You only have to learn one. Is this an excuse for getting things wrong? No. But you can help everyone by not muting the stream, taking notes and send them on to Benji/whoever casts later so that they can learn their mistakes and improve on it. This is what I do with Wolf/Raelcun and a number of pro players who help us improve, the same way that every other pro caster does. While I understand its frustrating, remember that you are in the 1% of the audience and practising camera control/voice patterns and chemistry with their caster is what has to take up majority of the time. Not playing the game as much as you get to. So help them help you!

I can honestly say, without the help of del/pinder/deth/iaguz ect ect from when I was starting out I would not be where I am today, not even close. Was it easy? no. nobody likes being told straight up what people don't like about you but push through it. There were many a heated discussions because emotion got in the way back then but you have to push through it. If you are open minded with them or any other pro you will improve and they will respect you for it.

- Where has benji's friends/xG been through all of this? I understand that this is a snapping point but where are they before it gets to this? Why have you let down your team mate but not helping him with these points.

- There is no such thing as "haters will be haters" It is the job of a commentator to please everyone that they can. Some things like "their voice" "his face looks ugly" you cant help, but every single other point that can EVER be brought up can be improved upon. I've seen multiple people take the road of "haters will be haters" and as soon as they reach saying that, they have peaked as a caster and disappear shortly after.

Quick Comments

	Bash:	this kid used to cast BSG's. Respect yo.
	TAriiChard:	great post
	nGenLight:
	Champi:	good perspective and advice, well said
	TAEdgE:
	deL:	I watch casters for their ugly faces
	NDG.Stitch:	Well said!!!
	Flamga:
	x5_dot:
	Maynarde:
	Fourby:	Sell waid
	Nemo:	Excellent post

[Champi]

It took me a long hard think to decide to post in here, because as Benji knows, and I'm sure most of you know, I am not his biggest fan, I border on Hatred towards him, but I have my own personal reasons for this, and anyone who needs to know why, does know why, and nothing more needs to be said on that.

However, this thread is for constructive criticism for Benji to help him better himself, and I'm all for someone trying to change for the better, even if i hate them.

It's hard to put anything in here that hasnt already been said at least twice, and I'm sure what i've got to say will sound familiar, but as pinder said, the more people voicing their opinions, the bigger impact it will have, and from what has been incinuated earlier, we may need a lot of impact to try and get Benji to accept that we want to help him, not just seem like we are hating on him.

(Now, I am going to use a word which may not sound all too friendly, but by no means am i about to use this word to try and offend Benji, or use it to "personally attack" him, i thought long and hard about which word i wanted to use and I've made my decision, even though it comes off as a little blunt.)

In my opinion, the biggest issue Benji has with his casting, is that he is a complete 'Tool'.

Nobody in here has argued that he lacks the dedication, the passion, the effort, or the punctuality, to perform as a caster, in fact, that is what he is praised for the most.

There are criticisms for other things like lack of knowledge due to never playing the game, being biased towards xG, and being more negative in his casts rather than positive and optimistic, but in my opinion, these flaws are not stemming from a problem he is experiencing as a caster, but rather just because of his personality!

He is dubbed by most as arrogant, narcissistic, negative, biased, disconnected from criticism, and is known to power trip from time to time in game lobbies, and boast about his stream viewers etc.

As fantastic as it is that we have decided to make a criticism thread to help him realise and correct his flaws, instead of letting him run his course until he is black listed in SEA, I feel like if Benji accepts the fact that he needs to make some changes, he will need to look much deeper than just changing the way he casts, but change his attitude towards people altogether, as it is a lot easier for someone to accept and correct flaws in casting, then it is to accept and correct flaws in their personality, ESPECIALLY if said person is happy with who they are and what they do in life.

I can't emphasise enough that the problem stems from Benji simply being himself on stream. And if any change is to occur in his casting, it needs to be some serious re working in his personality and attitude towards other people. Which as i said before, is not going to be easy, and probably not even going to be welcomed by him.

I do encourage Benji to think about this though, and think about maybe somehow trying to improve his social skills, as i feel it will bring him nothing but positive results in all aspects of his life, not just his casting.

All the best with your future sir.

Quick Comments

	Peleus:	So totally agree!!
	x5_dot:
	simon:	spot on
	Fourby:
	oGrNsCo:
	TARane:	agree
	TABjornbrandr:	Absolutely agree
	TAEdarus:	Very assertive, I like.
	Rockstar:	.
	iVnStinger:	^ Needle in the haystack.
	TAkrunch:	In my opinion, the biggest issue Benji has with his casting, is that he is a complete 'Tool'.""
	dippa:	this post is so good it makes me question whether you were under the influence at the time of writing

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by tgun

*****.

No censorship? My EYES BURN T_______T

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

gg sc2sea censor.

[TABjornbrandr]

Originally Posted by TAChampi

It took me a long hard think to decide to post in here, because as Benji knows, and I'm sure most of you know, I am not his biggest fan, I border on Hatred towards him, but I have my own personal reasons for this, and anyone who needs to know why, does know why, and nothing more needs to be said on that.

However, this thread is for constructive criticism for Benji to help him better himself, and I'm all for someone trying to change for the better, even if i hate them.

It's hard to put anything in here that hasnt already been said at least twice, and I'm sure what i've got to say will sound familiar, but as pinder said, the more people voicing their opinions, the bigger impact it will have, and from what has been incinuated earlier, we may need a lot of impact to try and get Benji to accept that we want to help him, not just seem like we are hating on him.

(Now, I am going to use a word which may not sound all too friendly, but by no means am i about to use this word to try and offend Benji, or use it to "personally attack" him, i thought long and hard about which word i wanted to use and I've made my decision, even though it comes off as a little blunt.)

In my opinion, the biggest issue Benji has with his casting, is that he is a complete 'Tool'.

Nobody in here has argued that he lacks the dedication, the passion, the effort, or the punctuality, to perform as a caster, in fact, that is what he is praised for the most.

There are criticisms for other things like lack of knowledge due to never playing the game, being biased towards xG, and being more negative in his casts rather than positive and optimistic, but in my opinion, these flaws are not stemming from a problem he is experiencing as a caster, but rather just because of his personality!

He is dubbed by most as arrogant, narcissistic, negative, biased, disconnected from criticism, and is known to power trip from time to time in game lobbies, and boast about his stream viewers etc.

As fantastic as it is that we have decided to make a criticism thread to help him realise and correct his flaws, instead of letting him run his course until he is black listed in SEA, I feel like if Benji accepts the fact that he needs to make some changes, he will need to look much deeper than just changing the way he casts, but change his attitude towards people altogether, as it is a lot easier for someone to accept and correct flaws in casting, then it is to accept and correct flaws in their personality, ESPECIALLY if said person is happy with who they are and what they do in life.

I can't emphasise enough that the problem stems from Benji simply being himself on stream. And if any change is to occur in his casting, it needs to be some serious re working in his personality and attitude towards other people. Which as i said before, is not going to be easy, and probably not even going to be welcomed by him.

I do encourage Benji to think about this though, and think about maybe somehow trying to improve his social skills, as i feel it will bring him nothing but positive results in all aspects of his life, not just his casting.

All the best with your future sir.

If there is anything that I would agree with the most, it would have to be this here. You cannot just 'change' the way you do things unless you look at what intrinsically makes you act that way.

I genuinely do not feel as though Benji means malice in his words or his actions. Whilst I can see exactly how upset and frustrated a huge number of people are with him (and rightfully so, may I say), I do not believe that Benji set making that happen as his goal.

My general impression of Benji is a bloke who's thrown himself out into a very, very large community and he just doesn't know how to communicate successfully with people. As any public speaker will tell you, communication is the key. If you cannot articulate your opinions in an open and friendly manner, how can you expect people to find you likeable or your points agreeable? Although one does not have to brown-nose every viewer (to be honest, there are plenty of wankers in stream chats - just look at Destiny or Idra's stream chat), it does pay to learn how to be constructive in your mannerisms.

I do believe that everything else I would say has been said before, but with regards to this post, I truly feel as though this is the source of the problem.

Quick Comments

	TARane:	agree
	Champi:
	Rockstar:	This post gets 2 +reps and the guy that calls him a tool gets 10...

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by FaDeBjornbrandr

I genuinely do not feel as though Benji means malice in his words or his actions. Whilst I can see exactly how upset and frustrated a huge number of people are with him (and rightfully so, may I say), I do not believe that Benji set making that happen as his goal.

This is why I asked for Criticism.. and a wake up call for benji to change his ways.

He is not malicious, his intent is never to truely harm people (though I feel he doesn't care much for some people - fair enough). Benji just needs to know that while he is the primary caster for the content that we all want access to - he needs to return that favour to us and deliver the content in a fair, professional and polite manner.

Also, Wow - Champi has done a great job with his post.

I feel that this thread has run its course however, everything has been said - most comments now are derailments or people saying they agree. It has shown that a wide cross section of the community were fed up with Benji's attitude and needed to do something about it.

I would like to turn the topic of discussion towards thanking Benji for all the hours of effort he puts into this community. For me, this thread was a result of Benji not wanting to listen, and SC2SEA not knowing how to say it. Now its all out there, Benji has alot to get through with this but I hope he can. He is a devoted individual, something that this community needs to progress. I don't wish for there to be any bad blood between him and any of the posters in this thread. The purpose of this thread was the give Benji a wake up call - Please fix your ways before we stop tuning in, before top level players refuse you into their games and before sc2sea chases you out.

I hope that you can take what has been posted here as a way to improve and grow. I for one am always here to talk to you about these issues (though I doubt I'd be the kind of person you would turn to).

Thank you Benji for all your work for SC2SEA.

Quick Comments

	Zepph:	well spoken
	dragonnaus:	waste of time this thread
	Synizta:	counter-pointless rep (Dragon)
	TABjornbrandr:	Definitely concur and also counter-neg to dragon
	FvRphoneheha:	I hereby knight you Sir Chadmann the Reconciliatory
	Champi:

[Fourby]

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

*Rockstar: *
interventions are a last resort usually reserved for extreme situations. They are typically composed of FRIENDS and FAMI...

@Rockstar:

I'm pretty sure this situation is becoming quite close to last resort, as some just can't handle it anymore.

Yes mostly an intervention is held by FRIENDS and FAMILY, but the reason for this is because they are the MOST AFFECTED by the person. In this case it is the community.


/Usually you dont reply to rep comments I know, but this guy constantly bad reps stupid things and I just cant stay silent about it anymore.. It's really annoying