[syfChadMann]

Firstly, I'm making this thread because Benji is too proud to do so
By no means is this a thread that is designed to flame Benji

I'm asking, what criticism do you have for Benji? - His streams have come under alot of flak lately because of the trash talking he has put out on teams and events.

I'm writing this because I honestly feel, that Benji puts in quite alot of effort and the SEA community needs dedicated individuals. However at this rate - no one will want anything to do with Benji. Also, Benji seems too proud to ask for the criticism - and when it is put forward to him, he responds with something along the lines of 'haters be hatin' okay.. maybe not - more like "Same old criticism from the same old people" Suggesting TA and only TA hate Benji. We need to develop your ability to cast and hold back your flaming. Your a public figure in this community - act with a bit of respect for all of the members within it.

Please, be constructive - don't make it personal.

Admin Edit: Any personal attacks / flaming will get deleted / warned / infracted, so be civil.

Quick Comments

	NOM:
	Fadey:
	x5_dot:
	Mavik:
	Trinion:

[nGenLight]

Maybe you'd like to rephrase the title because it insinuates that Benji needs help, which yeah - when not asked for, could be taken personally.

Quick Comments

	neKo:	my thoughts +1
	NOM:
	syfChadMann:	Can't change after post.. but I titled it 'Constructive Criticism for Benji'
	Fadey:
	TABiggun:
	Bash:

[x5_Potter]

While a bit of bias towards one or the other is always present, the levels in which it happens at time is a bit overkill. Oh, and please stop the bad jokes, it's like SEA's version of Moletrap!

Quick Comments

SmirkToT:

[QEDFridge]

Originally Posted by VB_Potthead

While a bit of bias towards one or the other is always present, the levels in which it happens at time is a bit overkill. Oh, and please stop the bad jokes, it's like SEA's version of Moletrap!

^ main instigator of the bad jokes....

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Maybe you'd like to rephrase the title because it insinuates that Benji needs help, which yeah - when not asked for, could be taken personally.

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too. This is honestly poor form by chadmann... (unless you -have- been PMing him and contacting through his xg email address and stuff and being rejected... in which case you should say so).

Quick Comments

	QEDFridge:
	Asrathiel:	Agreed
	Bash:	+1
	Dox:	Benji and nirvAnA authorised this
	Snx.FigJig:	^
	deL:	obviously what we were doing wasn't working
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	<3 coz so many haters be hating :p
	TADivinity:	..
	SPGDoG:	agreed with dox
	Synizta:	didn't nirvana say this thread should be made?

[QEDFridge]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too. This is honestly poor form by chadmann... (unless you -have- been PMing him and contacting through his xg email address and stuff and being rejected... in which case you should say so).

finally some sanity

[TABiggun]

Imo benji should just play a ton of sc2 so he can improve his game knowledge and this will in turn improve his casting a lot.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too. This is honestly poor form by chadmann... (unless you -have- been PMing him and contacting through his xg email address and stuff and being rejected... in which case you should say so).

There have been many attempts to talk to Benji about this..

Even nirvAnA said that this thread needed to be made on Sunday - but no one did - after today's chat box incident I thought it was about time. I know that this thread may not be popular among some people - but the recent response by a wide cross section of this community to posts that flame Benji isn't doing anything either. Give him the criticism he needs to work out what he needs to do - untill everyone collectively responds to Benji in a method like this - he will just brush it off 'Benji haters be hatin - watevs'....

The fact is, every time Benji is given any type of criticism he brushes it off and puts it down to the TA hate train. I want to gather constructive criticism for Benji from the entire community.

I struggle to see how this is 'poor form' - it is quite reasonable and in response to Benji ignoring all attempts to help him out.

Quick Comments

	TABiggun:
	NDG.Stitch:	True, he isn't that open to everyone. He'd probably ignore 90% of us.
	lolwut:

[NvPinder]

• Caster's need to be likeable, look at day9. tasteless, artosis, etc. everybody loves THEM, not just their casting ability, you need people to LIKE you for them to want to listen to you, its not like idra where his play is amazing dispite being an asshole, if you're an asshole and a caster, you will not do well.

• You are beyond the point of arrogance. I've never seen another player with the level of arrogance you have over your 'stream viewer count'. Look at moonglade, the guy wins everything ever, the reason why people like him is because he wins AND DOESNT GO AROUND TELLING EVERYONE HOW MUCH HE WINS AND HOW MUCH BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE IS IN SEA (unlike you)

• You piss off a lot of people at big lan events by being arrogant via your team. I actually love all the people who play for you, the 3 aussie guys are in the same clan as me (as much as iaguz is in denial), that being said, you were a lot better at ACL GC in terms of not coming up to me during the tournament telling me how your team is going to win and how everyone in melbourne sucks when im about to go into a game, that wasnt even against your team, however i heard from others you were telling them to choke before their games, again, not at all remotely cool. (Again, relevant via the "casters need to be liked" point)

• During your casts you're known to be ludicrously biased. This is not new to you and I know you are trying to fix this which is good.

• You are incredibly harsh on players. You are NOT, i repeat, NOT high enough level to do analytic casting. Do not watch a players opening and say how bad it is and how sloppy his play was AFTER he's just won(and in some cases, lost) the game. Not only does it take away the spectacle of the players being good (ie: This guy won but he's still shit - then why the **** are we watching these games?), you also risk being wrong, and making yourself look like an idiot. Your job as a caster is to make the game seem more exciting. Anything you can do to make the players sound better, and the game more intense, you SHOULD be doing. Don't say "Oh, awful micro by [x]" or "That was a really bad build by [y]", play up how well the OTHER player did to put himself in that position, or how it was just a 'small miss-step' or SOMETHING. If you make the players in sound shit, people lose interest, and it's all gone.

Quick Comments

	TABiggun:	A lot of good points.
	Flamga:	+1 to the man :) totally agree
	NDG.Stitch:	Yes!
	TAEdarus:	I like this coz its 100% constructive.
	syfChadMann:
	Bash:
	Dox:	That last point was actually brilliant, nice work sir
	NOM:	winning
	TARane:	solid points
	ROOT`iaguz:	im not in denial **** off
	x5_dot:
	oGrNsCo:
	TargA:	i love you
	Eldrid:	well written!
	Welshy:
	cruxBsK:	^all of this
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	good job pinder
	Xenomorph:
	FvRsolis:	you could say pinder was ...on the money
	MrToast:
	asdfSchnitzel:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	very well said
	pRoTimber:
	TAScaramanga:
	inFeZa:	Why do you make so much cents all the time.....
	TCPKiaSu:
	AxSGRiM:
	Champi:	good points, well said, and Iaguz, u r deffinitely one of us

[x5_Potter]

Originally Posted by QEDFridge

^ main instigator of the bad jokes....

But is my name Benji and do I stream lots? As far as I'm aware, no, so i don't need to tone mine down.

Though i should rephrase my statement. Bad jokes are fine, but they have to be done in moderation. Sometimes it gets too much on stream.

[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too.

Yup, totally.

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

Also, Benji seems too proud to ask for the criticism

In which case I doubt something like this would be at all helpful?

ETA

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

There have been many attempts to talk to Benji about this..

Eh, fair enough, be interested to see how it's received...

Aaaaand ETA again, from further on

Originally Posted by Maynarde

This was authorized by nirvAnA and Benji himself.

That makes a major difference then

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

.

[x5_Potter]

Originally Posted by Asrathiel

In which case I doubt something like this would be at all helpful?

But it's better to try and for him to not change, then for us to just bitch about it and not try to get him to change constructively, without abuse.

Quick Comments

Asrathiel:

True dat, good point ^_^

[NDG.Stitch]

What I admire about Benji:

Certainly he's been doing and has done a lot of things for SEA. He's managing a team that has a lot of potential to go international, and he's also raised SEA up to many around the world. I believe he's done the most SEA advertising, be it only focused on Australia or actually SEA, he's really done well on doing so. I think his dedication to his job as a caster/manager is extremely great, and requires a lot of effort in sustaining his role. Speaking honestly, I don't think that any other caster from SEA has promoted this server as much as him. So kudos to Benji for being so amazing.

My Criticism:

I think for many like me, I've had criticisms for Benji ever since the start, but I was too scared or intimidated to speak about it. First of all, I think that Benji is not that open-minded to people. From my perspective, I think that Benji has a habit of only working with people he likes, which are rarely from places outside of Australia especially. Secondly, I do agree with the majority that Benji often looks down on other players/teams. I think as a caster or a manager, this is a really bad habit to have since your opinion can easily influence your audience or your team, and I believe over-confidence for a team that is still pretty new is not a good thing. I've watched Benji's stream quite a number of times, whenever I see a player from xGKing, the atmosphere of his casts are really biased towards his own players, and that makes me completely feel like that xGKing player is absolutely amazing compared to the opposing player. Thirdly, about Benji's casting, it may be a bit opinionized for me since I'm also a caster. Coming from the really SG's style of casting (whom I really learned from HDPhoenix), I find Benji a bit too factual with his commentaries. I'd like to know about the build orders or what the player is thinking, but the main point about casting is to entertain the crowd. I think that if Benji could use more excitement with his casts or find a very energized co-caster, it would really make his stream a lot more interesting. This is just how I like to watch my replays, this is why I like watching even Korean's cast (even thought I don't understand) because they are very exciting and it grabs my attention with the emotion that the caster inputs on the game. Lastly from an SPR side's perspective, we've also had some issues with Benji when trying to organize matches. He wasn't allowing games to be postponed or to be moved later without really thinking about that they were already ahead in points on the tournament. This lead to a lot of negativity in SPR towards Benji, so I hope that he sees that not just players, but clans are also not really happy with him.

Just some thoughts, I could probably go on and on!

But overall, Benji is definitely a very very important figure around here, I don't think SC2SEA would get as much spotlight if it weren't for him.

Quick Comments

	SmirkToT:
	TCPKiaSu:	why people no rep him!!!?
	Trinion:
	nirvAnA:
	crAzerk:	here we go
	TAkrunch:	u need a complement at the bottom to complete the sandwich

[wTlzq]

Better computer specs for streaming!! His stream has the highest number of viewers in SEA on TL, and I feel that his current stream has a low frame rate

Quick Comments

Bash:

oooh good point! +1

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

There have been many attempts to talk to Benji about this..

Even nirvAnA said that this thread needed to be made on Sunday - but no one did - after today's chat box incident I thought it was about time. I know that this thread may not be popular among some people - but the recent response by a wide cross section of this community to posts that flame Benji isn't doing anything either. Give him the criticism he needs to work out what he needs to do - untill everyone collectively responds to Benji in a method like this - he will just brush it off 'Benji haters be hatin - watevs'....

The fact is, every time Benji is given any type of criticism he brushes it off and puts it down to the TA hate train. I want to gather constructive criticism for Benji from the entire community.

I struggle to see how this is 'poor form' - it is quite reasonable and in response to Benji ignoring all attempts to help him out.

You just talked about how he is too proud to publicly ask for this...

so what possible better way to get his back up about it and not want to respond at all to any legitimate criticism than to air them all in public like this.

I'm really just saying you should think about it for 5 minutes first. I do not particularly love benji's casting, but if I have something I want to say to him, I'll say it to him, not to everyone to look cool by being on the benji hating bandwagon.

Quick Comments

	simon:	its carthatic for the community
	TAEdarus:	Missed the point. You think this is fun? Facedesk.
	Bash:	Pretty sure he didnt see Nirv&Co authorise it, its a valid point given that.
	breadfan:	valid point, this has been coming up for WEEKS with concern about a post like this not being able to work
	ToRSpartaz:	ERRRRRYYY MOOOOOOSE i just find your posts and rep em :3
	TAEdgE:	one on one in private obviously hasn't solved shit
	pRoTimber:
	Rockstar:	Balancing the negative. Completely agree.

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by Asrathiel

In which case I doubt something like this would be at all helpful?

You'd be surprised how close its getting to a 'the last straw' kind of deal where quite a few top players are going to simply refuse to play games Benji is casting. A "Gamer's strike" if you will. TA are not the only people involved in this idea either.

If this isn't helpful, and he stays locked in his ways, or even worse, it literally will come to that.

[Flamga]

I had a talk to a couple people about this, just for the sake of discussion, and I think its more that people dont want to tell him any criticism. Honestly would love him to come on board and try his best to just get rid of the habbits posted above and would be awesome to watch!!

But in the end it is up to Benji to ask for this, we can state our opinions, but as long as he pulls the viewers who am I to complain?

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

• 
  Caster's need to be likeable, look at day9. tasteless, artosis, etc. everybody loves THEM, not just their casting ability, you need people to LIKE you for them to want to listen to you, its not like idra where his play is amazing dispite being an asshole, if you're an asshole and a caster, you will not do well.

• You are beyond the point of arrogance. I've never seen another player with the level of arrogance you have over your 'stream viewer count'. Look at moonglade, the guy wins everything ever, the reason why people like him is because he wins AND DOESNT GO AROUND TELLING EVERYONE HOW MUCH HE WINS AND HOW MUCH BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE IS IN SEA (unlike you)

• You piss off a lot of people at big lan events by being arrogant via your team. I actually love all the people who play for you, the 3 aussie guys are in the same clan as me (as much as iaguz is in denial), that being said, you were a lot better at ACL GC in terms of not coming up to me during the tournament telling me how your team is going to win and how everyone in melbourne sucks when im about to go into a game, that wasnt even against your team, however i heard from others you were telling them to choke before their games, again, not at all remotely cool. (Again, relevant via the "casters need to be liked" point)

• During your casts you're known to be ludicrously biased. This is not new to you and I know you are trying to fix this which is good.

• You are incredibly harsh on players. You are NOT, i repeat, NOT high enough level to do analytic casting. Do not watch a players opening and say how bad it is and how sloppy his play was AFTER he's just won(and in some cases, lost) the game. Not only does it take away the spectacle of the players being good (ie: This guy won but he's still shit - then why the **** are we watching these games?), you also risk being wrong, and making yourself look like an idiot. Your job as a caster is to make the game seem more exciting. Anything you can do to make the players sound better, and the game more intense, you SHOULD be doing. Don't say "Oh, awful micro by [x]" or "That was a really bad build by [y]", play up how well the OTHER player did to put himself in that position, or how it was just a 'small miss-step' or SOMETHING. If you make the players in sound shit, people lose interest, and it's all gone.

Just to add on to the biased casting criticism. A few days ago I watched you casting Iaguz vs a korean protoss (cant remember who) and every comment you made throughout the game was about how iaguz was playing, what his next moves should be, saying it was a good / bad engagement from iaguz, etc.

You weren't talking about the other player at all. If you want to see what we are talking about then I definately recommend you go watch this game.

Quick Comments

	TargA:	lol
	NDG.Stitch:
	FvRsolis:	'high level enough' Pinder is top 3 protoss in the country. He has the ability to be an analytical caster.
	TADivinity:	^ He is directing his words to benji, not to pinder -,-"
	xGKingdelete:	^
	TCPKiaSu:	lol solis mistake yo

[nGenLight]

While all criticism towards Benji has their valid points (Pinder makes some very good points), I am aware the situation is getting exaggerated because well, he is Benji. This is what happens to those in the spotlight, see Kellymilkies.

However, as he is the face of SEA casters, improvements does need to be made so that his reputation does not worsen and follow the hate-train towards SEA's ex-premiere castress.

Although I do have to say that Benji does actually listen to criticism, at least from people like myself, and when it doesn't come with "You are an arrogant prick" - Which is hard for anyone to listen to.

But I don't agree with a "If you don't like me, don't listen to me" attitude. No body likes that, and it supports the negative characteristics people are suggesting. =/

My personal opinion with Benji's casting is that yes although he does exhibit some things that People are claiming (I personally get annoyed when he misses something genius I'm doing lol), but he also shows the level of a veteran caster. We are quick to criticize him, But when was the last time anyone sang him any praise at all? It's hard to "listen" when all you get is shit.

Just my own two cents.

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	well said
	asdfSchnitzel:
	nirvAnA:

[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

when it doesn't come with "You are an arrogant prick" - Which is hard for anyone to listen to.

No one's gonna be open to listening to someone who says stuff like that, no matter how valid their other points may be.

Quick Comments

TABag:

I tend to disagree, would depend on the personality of the person involved..