SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

**syfChadMann** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:07 AM

Firstly, I'm making this thread because Benji is too proud to do so
By no means is this a thread that is designed to flame Benji

I'm asking, what criticism do you have for Benji? - His streams have come under alot of flak lately because of the trash talking he has put out on teams and events.

I'm writing this because I honestly feel, that Benji puts in quite alot of effort and the SEA community needs dedicated individuals. However at this rate - no one will want anything to do with Benji. Also, Benji seems too proud to ask for the criticism - and when it is put forward to him, he responds with something along the lines of 'haters be hatin' okay.. maybe not - more like "Same old criticism from the same old people" Suggesting TA and only TA hate Benji. We need to develop your ability to cast and hold back your flaming. Your a public figure in this community - act with a bit of respect for all of the members within it.

Please, be constructive - don't make it personal.

Admin Edit: Any personal attacks / flaming will get deleted / warned / infracted, so be civil.

Quick Comments

	NOM:
	Fadey:
	x5_dot:
	Mavik:
	Trinion:

**nGenLight** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:09 AM

Maybe you'd like to rephrase the title because it insinuates that Benji needs help, which yeah - when not asked for, could be taken personally.

Quick Comments

	neKo:	my thoughts +1
	NOM:
	syfChadMann:	Can't change after post.. but I titled it 'Constructive Criticism for Benji'
	Fadey:
	TABiggun:
	Bash:

x5_Potter · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:12 AM

While a bit of bias towards one or the other is always present, the levels in which it happens at time is a bit overkill. Oh, and please stop the bad jokes, it's like SEA's version of Moletrap!

Quick Comments

SmirkToT:

QEDFridge · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VB_Potthead

While a bit of bias towards one or the other is always present, the levels in which it happens at time is a bit overkill. Oh, and please stop the bad jokes, it's like SEA's version of Moletrap!

^ main instigator of the bad jokes....

**|Erasmus|** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Maybe you'd like to rephrase the title because it insinuates that Benji needs help, which yeah - when not asked for, could be taken personally.

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too. This is honestly poor form by chadmann... (unless you -have- been PMing him and contacting through his xg email address and stuff and being rejected... in which case you should say so).

Quick Comments

	QEDFridge:
	Asrathiel:	Agreed
	Bash:	+1
	Dox:	Benji and nirvAnA authorised this
	Snx.FigJig:	^
	deL:	obviously what we were doing wasn't working
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	<3 coz so many haters be hating :p
	TADivinity:	..
	SPGDoG:	agreed with dox
	Synizta:	didn't nirvana say this thread should be made?

QEDFridge · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too. This is honestly poor form by chadmann... (unless you -have- been PMing him and contacting through his xg email address and stuff and being rejected... in which case you should say so).

finally some sanity

TABiggun · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:19 AM

Imo benji should just play a ton of sc2 so he can improve his game knowledge and this will in turn improve his casting a lot.

**syfChadMann** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too. This is honestly poor form by chadmann... (unless you -have- been PMing him and contacting through his xg email address and stuff and being rejected... in which case you should say so).

There have been many attempts to talk to Benji about this..

Even nirvAnA said that this thread needed to be made on Sunday - but no one did - after today's chat box incident I thought it was about time. I know that this thread may not be popular among some people - but the recent response by a wide cross section of this community to posts that flame Benji isn't doing anything either. Give him the criticism he needs to work out what he needs to do - untill everyone collectively responds to Benji in a method like this - he will just brush it off 'Benji haters be hatin - watevs'....

The fact is, every time Benji is given any type of criticism he brushes it off and puts it down to the TA hate train. I want to gather constructive criticism for Benji from the entire community.

I struggle to see how this is 'poor form' - it is quite reasonable and in response to Benji ignoring all attempts to help him out.

Quick Comments

	TABiggun:
	NDG.Stitch:	True, he isn't that open to everyone. He'd probably ignore 90% of us.
	lolwut:

NvPinder · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:25 AM

Caster's need to be likeable, look at day9. tasteless, artosis, etc. everybody loves THEM, not just their casting ability, you need people to LIKE you for them to want to listen to you, its not like idra where his play is amazing dispite being an asshole, if you're an asshole and a caster, you will not do well.

You are beyond the point of arrogance. I've never seen another player with the level of arrogance you have over your 'stream viewer count'. Look at moonglade, the guy wins everything ever, the reason why people like him is because he wins AND DOESNT GO AROUND TELLING EVERYONE HOW MUCH HE WINS AND HOW MUCH BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE IS IN SEA (unlike you)

You piss off a lot of people at big lan events by being arrogant via your team. I actually love all the people who play for you, the 3 aussie guys are in the same clan as me (as much as iaguz is in denial), that being said, you were a lot better at ACL GC in terms of not coming up to me during the tournament telling me how your team is going to win and how everyone in melbourne sucks when im about to go into a game, that wasnt even against your team, however i heard from others you were telling them to choke before their games, again, not at all remotely cool. (Again, relevant via the "casters need to be liked" point)

During your casts you're known to be ludicrously biased. This is not new to you and I know you are trying to fix this which is good.

You are incredibly harsh on players. You are NOT, i repeat, NOT high enough level to do analytic casting. Do not watch a players opening and say how bad it is and how sloppy his play was AFTER he's just won(and in some cases, lost) the game. Not only does it take away the spectacle of the players being good (ie: This guy won but he's still shit - then why the **** are we watching these games?), you also risk being wrong, and making yourself look like an idiot. Your job as a caster is to make the game seem more exciting. Anything you can do to make the players sound better, and the game more intense, you SHOULD be doing. Don't say "Oh, awful micro by [x]" or "That was a really bad build by [y]", play up how well the OTHER player did to put himself in that position, or how it was just a 'small miss-step' or SOMETHING. If you make the players in sound shit, people lose interest, and it's all gone.

Quick Comments

	TABiggun:	A lot of good points.
	Flamga:	+1 to the man :) totally agree
	NDG.Stitch:	Yes!
	TAEdarus:	I like this coz its 100% constructive.
	syfChadMann:
	Bash:
	Dox:	That last point was actually brilliant, nice work sir
	NOM:	winning
	TARane:	solid points
	ROOT`iaguz:	im not in denial **** off
	x5_dot:
	oGrNsCo:
	TargA:	i love you
	Eldrid:	well written!
	Welshy:
	cruxBsK:	^all of this
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	good job pinder
	Xenomorph:
	FvRsolis:	you could say pinder was ...on the money
	MrToast:
	asdfSchnitzel:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	very well said
	pRoTimber:
	TAScaramanga:
	inFeZa:	Why do you make so much cents all the time.....
	TCPKiaSu:
	AxSGRiM:
	Champi:	good points, well said, and Iaguz, u r deffinitely one of us

x5_Potter · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QEDFridge

^ main instigator of the bad jokes....

But is my name Benji and do I stream lots? As far as I'm aware, no, so i don't need to tone mine down.

Though i should rephrase my statement. Bad jokes are fine, but they have to be done in moderation. Sometimes it gets too much on stream.

Asrathiel · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too.

Yup, totally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

Also, Benji seems too proud to ask for the criticism

In which case I doubt something like this would be at all helpful?

ETA

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

There have been many attempts to talk to Benji about this..

Eh, fair enough, be interested to see how it's received...

Aaaaand ETA again, from further on

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maynarde

This was authorized by nirvAnA and Benji himself.

That makes a major difference then

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

.

x5_Potter · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asrathiel

In which case I doubt something like this would be at all helpful?

But it's better to try and for him to not change, then for us to just bitch about it and not try to get him to change constructively, without abuse.

Quick Comments

Asrathiel:

True dat, good point ^_^

NDG.Stitch · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:28 AM

What I admire about Benji:

Certainly he's been doing and has done a lot of things for SEA. He's managing a team that has a lot of potential to go international, and he's also raised SEA up to many around the world. I believe he's done the most SEA advertising, be it only focused on Australia or actually SEA, he's really done well on doing so. I think his dedication to his job as a caster/manager is extremely great, and requires a lot of effort in sustaining his role. Speaking honestly, I don't think that any other caster from SEA has promoted this server as much as him. So kudos to Benji for being so amazing.

My Criticism:

I think for many like me, I've had criticisms for Benji ever since the start, but I was too scared or intimidated to speak about it. First of all, I think that Benji is not that open-minded to people. From my perspective, I think that Benji has a habit of only working with people he likes, which are rarely from places outside of Australia especially. Secondly, I do agree with the majority that Benji often looks down on other players/teams. I think as a caster or a manager, this is a really bad habit to have since your opinion can easily influence your audience or your team, and I believe over-confidence for a team that is still pretty new is not a good thing. I've watched Benji's stream quite a number of times, whenever I see a player from xGKing, the atmosphere of his casts are really biased towards his own players, and that makes me completely feel like that xGKing player is absolutely amazing compared to the opposing player. Thirdly, about Benji's casting, it may be a bit opinionized for me since I'm also a caster. Coming from the really SG's style of casting (whom I really learned from HDPhoenix), I find Benji a bit too factual with his commentaries. I'd like to know about the build orders or what the player is thinking, but the main point about casting is to entertain the crowd. I think that if Benji could use more excitement with his casts or find a very energized co-caster, it would really make his stream a lot more interesting. This is just how I like to watch my replays, this is why I like watching even Korean's cast (even thought I don't understand) because they are very exciting and it grabs my attention with the emotion that the caster inputs on the game. Lastly from an SPR side's perspective, we've also had some issues with Benji when trying to organize matches. He wasn't allowing games to be postponed or to be moved later without really thinking about that they were already ahead in points on the tournament. This lead to a lot of negativity in SPR towards Benji, so I hope that he sees that not just players, but clans are also not really happy with him.

Just some thoughts, I could probably go on and on!

But overall, Benji is definitely a very very important figure around here, I don't think SC2SEA would get as much spotlight if it weren't for him.

Quick Comments

	SmirkToT:
	TCPKiaSu:	why people no rep him!!!?
	Trinion:
	nirvAnA:
	crAzerk:	here we go
	TAkrunch:	u need a complement at the bottom to complete the sandwich

wTlzq · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:28 AM

Better computer specs for streaming!! His stream has the highest number of viewers in SEA on TL, and I feel that his current stream has a low frame rate

Quick Comments

Bash:

oooh good point! +1

**|Erasmus|** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

There have been many attempts to talk to Benji about this..

Even nirvAnA said that this thread needed to be made on Sunday - but no one did - after today's chat box incident I thought it was about time. I know that this thread may not be popular among some people - but the recent response by a wide cross section of this community to posts that flame Benji isn't doing anything either. Give him the criticism he needs to work out what he needs to do - untill everyone collectively responds to Benji in a method like this - he will just brush it off 'Benji haters be hatin - watevs'....

The fact is, every time Benji is given any type of criticism he brushes it off and puts it down to the TA hate train. I want to gather constructive criticism for Benji from the entire community.

I struggle to see how this is 'poor form' - it is quite reasonable and in response to Benji ignoring all attempts to help him out.

You just talked about how he is too proud to publicly ask for this...

so what possible better way to get his back up about it and not want to respond at all to any legitimate criticism than to air them all in public like this.

I'm really just saying you should think about it for 5 minutes first. I do not particularly love benji's casting, but if I have something I want to say to him, I'll say it to him, not to everyone to look cool by being on the benji hating bandwagon.

Quick Comments

	simon:	its carthatic for the community
	TAEdarus:	Missed the point. You think this is fun? Facedesk.
	Bash:	Pretty sure he didnt see Nirv&Co authorise it, its a valid point given that.
	breadfan:	valid point, this has been coming up for WEEKS with concern about a post like this not being able to work
	ToRSpartaz:	ERRRRRYYY MOOOOOOSE i just find your posts and rep em :3
	TAEdgE:	one on one in private obviously hasn't solved shit
	pRoTimber:
	Rockstar:	Balancing the negative. Completely agree.

NvPinder · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asrathiel

In which case I doubt something like this would be at all helpful?

You'd be surprised how close its getting to a 'the last straw' kind of deal where quite a few top players are going to simply refuse to play games Benji is casting. A "Gamer's strike" if you will. TA are not the only people involved in this idea either.

If this isn't helpful, and he stays locked in his ways, or even worse, it literally will come to that.

Flamga · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:32 AM

I had a talk to a couple people about this, just for the sake of discussion, and I think its more that people dont want to tell him any criticism. Honestly would love him to come on board and try his best to just get rid of the habbits posted above and would be awesome to watch!!

But in the end it is up to Benji to ask for this, we can state our opinions, but as long as he pulls the viewers who am I to complain?

TABiggun · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

Caster's need to be likeable, look at day9. tasteless, artosis, etc. everybody loves THEM, not just their casting ability, you need people to LIKE you for them to want to listen to you, its not like idra where his play is amazing dispite being an asshole, if you're an asshole and a caster, you will not do well.

You are beyond the point of arrogance. I've never seen another player with the level of arrogance you have over your 'stream viewer count'. Look at moonglade, the guy wins everything ever, the reason why people like him is because he wins AND DOESNT GO AROUND TELLING EVERYONE HOW MUCH HE WINS AND HOW MUCH BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE IS IN SEA (unlike you)

You piss off a lot of people at big lan events by being arrogant via your team. I actually love all the people who play for you, the 3 aussie guys are in the same clan as me (as much as iaguz is in denial), that being said, you were a lot better at ACL GC in terms of not coming up to me during the tournament telling me how your team is going to win and how everyone in melbourne sucks when im about to go into a game, that wasnt even against your team, however i heard from others you were telling them to choke before their games, again, not at all remotely cool. (Again, relevant via the "casters need to be liked" point)

During your casts you're known to be ludicrously biased. This is not new to you and I know you are trying to fix this which is good.

You are incredibly harsh on players. You are NOT, i repeat, NOT high enough level to do analytic casting. Do not watch a players opening and say how bad it is and how sloppy his play was AFTER he's just won(and in some cases, lost) the game. Not only does it take away the spectacle of the players being good (ie: This guy won but he's still shit - then why the **** are we watching these games?), you also risk being wrong, and making yourself look like an idiot. Your job as a caster is to make the game seem more exciting. Anything you can do to make the players sound better, and the game more intense, you SHOULD be doing. Don't say "Oh, awful micro by [x]" or "That was a really bad build by [y]", play up how well the OTHER player did to put himself in that position, or how it was just a 'small miss-step' or SOMETHING. If you make the players in sound shit, people lose interest, and it's all gone.

Just to add on to the biased casting criticism. A few days ago I watched you casting Iaguz vs a korean protoss (cant remember who) and every comment you made throughout the game was about how iaguz was playing, what his next moves should be, saying it was a good / bad engagement from iaguz, etc.

You weren't talking about the other player at all. If you want to see what we are talking about then I definately recommend you go watch this game.

Quick Comments

	TargA:	lol
	NDG.Stitch:
	FvRsolis:	'high level enough' Pinder is top 3 protoss in the country. He has the ability to be an analytical caster.
	TADivinity:	^ He is directing his words to benji, not to pinder -,-"
	xGKingdelete:	^
	TCPKiaSu:	lol solis mistake yo

**nGenLight** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:32 AM

While all criticism towards Benji has their valid points (Pinder makes some very good points), I am aware the situation is getting exaggerated because well, he is Benji. This is what happens to those in the spotlight, see Kellymilkies.

However, as he is the face of SEA casters, improvements does need to be made so that his reputation does not worsen and follow the hate-train towards SEA's ex-premiere castress.

Although I do have to say that Benji does actually listen to criticism, at least from people like myself, and when it doesn't come with "You are an arrogant prick" - Which is hard for anyone to listen to.

But I don't agree with a "If you don't like me, don't listen to me" attitude. No body likes that, and it supports the negative characteristics people are suggesting. =/

My personal opinion with Benji's casting is that yes although he does exhibit some things that People are claiming (I personally get annoyed when he misses something genius I'm doing lol), but he also shows the level of a veteran caster. We are quick to criticize him, But when was the last time anyone sang him any praise at all? It's hard to "listen" when all you get is shit.

Just my own two cents.

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	well said
	asdfSchnitzel:
	nirvAnA:

Asrathiel · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

when it doesn't come with "You are an arrogant prick" - Which is hard for anyone to listen to.

No one's gonna be open to listening to someone who says stuff like that, no matter how valid their other points may be.

Quick Comments

TABag:

I tend to disagree, would depend on the personality of the person involved..

simon · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:36 AM

benjis bias and arrogance aside he isnt a good caster at all. The analytical side of his casting leaves much be desired. There is a reason why in the last year casters like apollo/bitter/rotti/day9/total biscuit are still in such high demand and the herp derp casters like jp mcknownothing and dj i only have a job in sc2 as a caster because ive been in the industry for 10 years wheat have been getting less and less time in front of the camera. THIS needs to happen in sea where the good casters get rewarded...for being good and despite all of benjis "efforts" it does not entitle him to anything. benjis practice of protectionism is another issue that people have brought up which also needs to stop. actively going out of your way to ensure you are the premier casting brand in sea by any means necessary does not sit well with many people.

also his standard response of "its the same people saying the same shit"

i think he should take a look at strafes post and all its up votes.

Quick Comments

	pRoTimber:	朋友你返印度食蕉啦
	TCPKiaSu:	if you want to say something say it in english and to his face
	Synizta:	NONE of what you said is Constructive.

**syfChadMann** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

You just talked about how he is too proud to publicly ask for this...

so what possible better way to get his back up about it and not want to respond at all to any legitimate criticism than to air them all in public like this.

I'm really just saying you should think about it for 5 minutes first. I do not particularly love benji's casting, but if I have something I want to say to him, I'll say it to him, not to everyone to look cool by being on the benji hating bandwagon.

The public nature of this thread is aimed to force Benji to realise that he needs to take this seriously.

I did think about it for a few minutes - I even asked a few non-TA members if I should post this and was told - yes, nirvAnA said on sunday that this needs to happen so Benji can see what people think - instead of everyone thinking it in the back of their heads but not acting on it.

Also, I specifically asked there not to be any 'hate' so I fail to see how this is 'Jumping on the Benji hate-bandwagon'

If you feel nothing needs to be said to Benji - don't post in this thread. Thank you for derailing the thread, if you want to continue to share that you disagree with everything I post - please PM me, if I don't respond or fail to take your comments into consideration - I welcome you to post a similar thread, Erasmus.

Quick Comments

TAEdarus:

**Dox** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Maybe you'd like to rephrase the title because it insinuates that Benji needs help, which yeah - when not asked for, could be taken personally.

[19/02/2012 7:04:36 PM] Bryan Choo (aLt.NirvAnA): Benji has given the go ahead with the constructive feedback thread

Alright so I'm just gonna weigh in with something very concise here. Benji has been upsetting more and more people lately. He refuses to respond to criticism, always disengaging from threads or discussions pertaining to his attitude or casting. He even blocked me from Skype to avoid having these sorts of conversations. So by calling other teams "free wins" and getting away with it, and then making jokes at the expense of people he has offended, whilst insulting viewers live on his stream, he's only digging a deeper hole for himself. He said he refused to apologise for his comments, because it would just draw more attention to his attitude.

Joking around about how you've pissed people off during the CityHunter stream on Sunday was extremely rude. Making comments such as, "If you don't like it, don't watch my stream" and "I get more viewers than any other SEA caster so obviously it's fine" are ridiculous. People tune in to the stream because of the games being played. You're a gateway to content that people want access to. To be honest, you'd probably get MORE viewers if you simply broadcasted the games in complete silence.

So here are my suggestions:

Stop pissing people off.
Stop blatantly favouring Xeria players. It's fine to cheer for them, but when you insult their opponents or undermine their victories, it rubs people the wrong way. (ie. You almost always justify a Xeria player losing by talking about how his opponent won with a cheesy all-in.)
Listen to criticism. Telling people "I disagree" or simply disengaging just makes people angrier.
Can you please stop swearing on stream? I do it when I'm streaming my ladder games, but I sure as hell don't do it when I'm commentating someone else's event. I don't even think you realise you're doing it. It's not very "profesioanl."
Show some respect to other casters. I don't know where this big head of yours came from, but it's grown to unjustified proportions.
Remember one very important thing. People tune in to your stream because of the people who are playing. People love watching players like MaFia, iaguz, Rossi, PiG, GLaDe, etc, etc, etc. THOSE players are the reason you have viewers and followers. You OWE them.
A bit of commentary feedback. You actually say, "IS IT GONNA BE ENOUGH I DON'T KNOW" during almost every single engagement. It seems to be a subconscious reflex. It's especially awkward when your co-caster is actually trying to respond to the question and you talk right over the top of them.
Please show respect to your co-casters. Give them time to speak, and I know it's said in jest, but you've made quite a few sexist remarks towards Zepph and deleting her twitter plug from your stream chat whilst telling viewers, "Don't follow her, follow me instead" is a real jerk thing to do.
I'd really like to see you help build the community. Because from our private discussions, you've told me you're not interested in helping to build anything but your own profile & revenue. This community isn't here to make you money. We're here because we all love eSports and we want to see it grow. Please don't take advantage of that.
Unrelated, but... I'd really love to hear what you were planning on saying about Nv during your stream on Sunday.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:
	Bash:
	NOM:
	iM yang:
	x5_dot:
	TargA:	you are the god of thunder sir
	freaky_beeky:
	wolf:
	VoxMSI.Rogue:
	cruxBsK:
	ToRSpartaz:	As am I dox
	fray`Alpha:
	deL:
	asdfSchnitzel:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:
	pRoTimber:
	Trinion:
	BAD.BiGbiRd:	Also every time an xG player does something or is about to do something the words "Player* is a total boss" come out far too often. Need some variety man :)
	Champi:	u and pinder need to leave champi something constructive to say yo :P

Bash · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:39 AM

i think there were plenty of good reasons nirv & co Decided NOT to post this on sunday, EDIT- Apparently it IS okay now, my bad

I personally cant watch his channel anymore mainly because of the reasons Dox mentioned. (As well as the ludicrous amounts of terrible jokes), which sucks because i know the dude puts in alot of work, and makes the time and effort to get to events and involve himself, so IMO the thread had to happen at some point, because if it helps him "get awesome" then its totally worth it.

Also, is it just me, or does he sound like he's flirting with that girl sometimes? idk.

In my opinion, he needs to stop being SO biased, i mean i get that he runs a team, and has a bit of himself invested into that, but as a caster he has to take a step back, sure, plug your teams sponsors on stream and stuff, thats great, but once you start discrediting other players and drawing away from the game itself you lose viewers. (and make better jokes plz

)

Benji, i want to like you, and i wanna be excited when you do events, because you obviously enjoy it and put effort in, so i hope you look at this thread with an open mind.

Flamga · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

Stop blatantly favouring Xeria players. It's fine to cheer for them, but when you insult their opponents or undermine their victories, it rubs people the wrong way. (ie. You almost always justify a Xeria player losing by talking about how his opponent won with a cheesy all-in.)
Show some respect to other casters. I don't know where this big head of yours came from, but it's grown to unjustified proportions.
A bit of commentary feedback. You actually say, "IS IT GONNA BE ENOUGH I DON'T KNOW" during almost every single engagement. It seems to be a subconscious reflex. It's especially awkward when your co-caster is actually trying to respond to the question and you talk right over the top of them.
Please show respect to your co-casters. Give them time to speak, and I know it's said in jest, but you've made quite a few sexist remarks towards Zepph and deleting her twitter plug from your stream chat whilst telling viewers, "Don't follow her, follow me instead" is a real jerk thing to do.
I'd really like to see you help build the community. Because from our private discussions, you've told me you're not interested in helping to build anything but your own profile & revenue. This community isn't here to make you money. We're here because we all love eSports and we want to see it grow. Please don't take advantage of that.

Will be honest, these are the reasons I dont tune in anymore, and why I had to stop watching sunday.

**Maynarde** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:45 AM

Yes to re-state (it's already said by Dox) so that no one flames ChadMann.

This was authorized by nirvAnA and Benji himself.

Thread title changed, probably a bit late but only just logged on T_T

NOM · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:48 AM

Good casters should be objective towards casting against other teams. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to support your team mates but it's inappropriate to show that kind of support in that way that is biased and continually offensive towards others.

Although I don't really get involved in e-sports that much, I know from experience of getting insulted by other team leaders/coaches, and unfortunately it will happen in just about every sport, not just e-sports.

It just makes you feel like crap after matches and losses your motivation to play at your best & having fun, regardless of winning or losing.

**iMSystem** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:49 AM

What happened to the SEA Weekly. I enjoyed those

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	LOL... dat chair spin...
	asdfSchnitzel:

Trusty · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:52 AM

When I find out the casters don't 'meet my standards' in terms of knowledge, I usually just mute the stream.

To be fair I haven't watched many of Benji's stuff, I usually only tune if I see it featured on TL, and it's involving a team I want to watch. The few times I have watched, I have been slightly annoyed at the commentary, but nothing overwhelming. Usually the game at hand keeps me tuned in.

I even get sick of tasteless - but I understand why he's there (to help beginners enjoy the stream).

Edit: I hope Benji can take on-board some of the points in this thread, if they are all indeed valid. It's nice seeing SEA on TL

**|Erasmus|** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maynarde

Yes to re-state (it's already said by Dox) so that no one flames ChadMann.

This was authorized by nirvAnA and Benji himself.

Thread title changed, probably a bit late but only just logged on T_T

Previously benji told everyone in the chat box rant sessions to contact him personally. If people aren't clear about benji being okay with it, calling him proud and arrogant then expecting him to take well to this stuff in public is silly.

My own 2c. I agree with a lot of the criticisms here. Personally the people I've enjoyed listening to cast are people like PiG, HuT or tgun. They give some great insights into the games that are occuring. There's a reason I still watch GSL over SEA tournaments, despite knowing many of the players, and it's because Tastosis are really good.

My preferred casters tend to be high level players who can analyse games well. I ******* love hearing artosis get all giddy when he sees MMA pull 3 scvs to hide in the corner when his rax is in his natural to try and fake proxy 11/11 rax.

The arrogance/bias thing is something benji is working on. The fact he's not a terribly high level player is something he is not (and as far as I know, does not) want to work on, so I think his "let the viewers decide" attitude is fine. Other casters should contact tournament admins and convince them they can do a better job. I think people can.

Trusty · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

My preferred casters tend to be high level players who can analyse games well. I ******* love hearing artosis get all giddy when he sees MMA pull 3 scvs to hide in the corner when his rax is in his natural to try and fake proxy 11/11 rax.

Totally agree! Home Story Cup is always so good,... players casting

foxmeep · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon

benjis bias and arrogance aside he isnt a good caster at all. The analytical side of his casting leaves much be desired. There is a reason why in the last year casters like apollo/bitter/rotti/day9/total biscuit are still in such high demand and the herp derp casters like jp mcknownothing and dj i only have a job in sc2 as a caster because ive been in the industry for 10 years wheat have been getting less and less time in front of the camera. THIS needs to happen in sea where the good casters get rewarded...for being good and despite all of benjis "efforts" it does not entitle him to anything. benjis practice of protectionism is another issue that people have brought up which also needs to stop. actively going out of your way to ensure you are the premier casting brand in sea by any means necessary does not sit well with many people.

also his standard response of "its the same people saying the same shit"

i think he should take a look at strafes post and all its up votes.

please tell me it was an accident that you related total biscuit to game analysis...that guy is a sardine when it comes to game knowledge.

on topic - whilst i agree that benji has areas to work on, i think it's a bit silly to presume that you can force him to change because he's the only regular caster in sea. the real answer is for more people to step up to the position.

Quick Comments

	Dox:	lol @ the use of "sardine"
	Synizta:

Flaunt · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:07 PM

i remember reading that benji thinks it's better not to be gm when it comes to casting. YOU CAN'T BE SRS. please LEARN the game first benji. imo you're pretty clueless when it comes to reading into anything and you call a lot of things wrong. you'd be a great caster if you made it to gm in sea. please put some time into learning teh game ><!

[TA]LoSt · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash

i think there were plenty of good reasons nirv & co Decided NOT to post this on sunday, EDIT- Apparently it IS okay now, my bad

It was all nirvAnA that decided not to post it Sunday after we had a discussion in the chatbox as to how the thread would end up. I'm guessing something happened today that pushed people over the edge and decided it was necessary?

The points given so far are extremely constructive and right on the ball in terms of how he is and what needs to be changed. Eras everything you're saying now I was saying on Sunday to nirv about what this thread would do and how he would respond, now that it's out and been posted I say we just restrict this thread to feedback about his casting and not how he'll personally react or what he thinks about this thread as a whole.

I have nothing further to add, Dox and Pinder highlighted pretty much every thought I had and more regarding what could be improved.

Really wish nirvAnA posted this, he wouldn't have copped it like ChadMann did. :-(

**nGenLight** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:09 PM

S'all good, this title is alright. Didn't like the "help out Benji" title is all.

**Dox** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

I'm guessing something happened today that pushed people over the edge and decided it was necessary?

+ [Chatbox Archive] +

Quick Comments

	[TA]LoSt:	Thankyou, and wow.
	TACeeSerps:	Thankyou good sir!
	Satu:
	Snx.FigJig:

**nGenLight** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:14 PM

Oh dear.

Quick Comments

	VoxMSI.Rogue:	OMG light y u make me laugh so much
	TAkrunch:	<3

**ToR.Arnor** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

+ [Chatbox Archive] +

Dox as much as I dont want to get involved I need to address something here

your exclusion of something Benji said after this line
"Today 12:40 PM: xGKingBenji: at least the other 2 streams will get some viewers now"
he followed it up with this
"Today 12:40 PM: xGKingBenji: :P"

I would ask why you decided to excluded that line (perhaps it was unintentional?) but I dont want to derail the thread

just take more care when you decide to quote something in the future ^_^

Quick Comments

	TABiggun:	what is there to address? thats irrelevent
	Frogmite:	agree, need to quote the whole chatbox
	TargA:	how dare you critize dox, go to hell
	ZC.EvilSWAT:	+rep to counter pointless negative rep, the proof must be sent in unadulterated to provide context
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	SWAT makes good point :)
	Nemo:	Good point.
	Snx.FigJig:	no
	EveVendetta:	Fair point if that was the main point of the chatbox quote

**inFeZa** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:18 PM

Just tell the game like it is.

Quick Comments

Mayo:

FaDeBadger · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter

Dox as much as I dont want to get involved I need to address something here

your exclusion of something Benji said after this line
"Today 12:40 PM: xGKingBenji: at least the other 2 streams will get some viewers now"
he followed it up with this
"Today 12:40 PM: xGKingBenji: :P"

I would ask why you decided to excluded that line (perhaps it was unintentional?) but I dont want to derail the thread

just take more care when you decide to quote something in the future ^_^

He edited out a whole bunch of unrelated stuff too. I daresay it just got caught in the rest.

Quick Comments

	x5_Potter:	I like the use of I dare say
	asdfSchnitzel:

simon · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxmeep

please tell me it was an accident that you related total biscuit to game analysis...that guy is a sardine when it comes to game knowledge.

He obviously isnt analytical in the slightest. but he does however continue to get work as he is a very popular play by play caster. hes good as his niche in the casting world where as benji doesnt really fit into any niche other than being the most disliked personality in SEA.

Quick Comments

Kalikah:

well there's other play by play casters who fill the niche of being likeable!

**ToR.Arnor** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

He edited out a whole bunch of unrelated stuff too. I daresay it just got caught in the rest.

Its a fairly big omission it changes it from something that is interpreted as mostly likely a joke to something that almost certainly isnt

**Dox** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

He edited out a whole bunch of unrelated stuff too. I daresay it just got caught in the rest.

Yarr, I edited out a few hundred lines of stuff, just tried to keep it to the point.

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

Don't be a Nirvana bro. JOKES BRYAN LOL

**syfChadMann** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter

Its a fairly big omission it changes it from something that is interpreted as mostly likely a joke to something that almost certainly isnt

Either way - it wasn't a joke, nor was it funny. It, at the very least, was an impolite Troll to the other streams and teams. He's basically saying, everyone is going to watch Xeria and Benji - when they aren't on, other streams might get a view or two...

Quick Comments

	FaDeBadger:	^ this
	TACeeSerps:

NvRossi · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter

Its a fairly big omission it changes it from something that is interpreted as mostly likely a joke to something that almost certainly isnt

That is something i definitely find annoying about Benji. These negative/confronting statements he makes followed up by a "just kidding" or a smiley face like that actually takes any weight off what he says.

It doesn't.

Only criticism that i feel needs to be added.

Quick Comments

	Zepph:	well said sir
	wolf:	can tell he actually means it
	Nemo:	Good point too

**|Erasmus|** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

Either way - it wasn't a joke, nor was it funny. It, at the very least, was an impolite Troll to the other streams and teams. He's basically saying, everyone is going to watch Xeria and Benji - when they aren't on, other streams might get a view or two...

Either way, the omitted line makes it clear it was intended as a joke, regardless of how it was received, and Xeria vs. InFi is a pretty exciting matchup.

I think we're all reading too much into the omission guys. Benji made a joke, in somewhat poor taste, to trigger this again. end of story as far as that sidetrack goes, I hope.

Quick Comments

	NvPinder:	You are an annoying person.
	Fourby:	just stop ffs.
	NDG.Stitch:	Stop defending over and over T_T

Zepph · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

Either way - it wasn't a joke, nor was it funny. It, at the very least, was an impolite Troll to the other streams and teams. He's basically saying, everyone is going to watch Xeria and Benji - when they aren't on, other streams might get a view or two...

Yeah Chad's right. "

" or not, it was still interpreted as a rude thing to say regardless of Benji's actual intentions in saying that.

Quick Comments

	nGenLight:	hi babe
	Kalikah:	very poor taste. where's the professionalism in that?
	asdfSchnitzel:

**ToR.Arnor** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

Either way - it wasn't a joke, nor was it funny. It, at the very least, was an impolite Troll to the other streams and teams. He's basically saying, everyone is going to watch Xeria and Benji - when they aren't on, other streams might get a view or two...

Thats 100% up to interpretation, anyway lets not debate over semantics, back on topic

I have advice for Benji (and have given it to him the past), Ill continue to do so in a way i feel is more constructive (again that is my opinion and I am in no way all others are wrong, there are many correct methods)

Quick Comments

	simon:	god you are a sanctimonious twat
	Kalikah:	you forgot :P

simon · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:27 PM

the face changes nothing arnor. people know benji a little bit better than that. If you dont then just go watch the CH stream vods from sunday where he mentions stream numbers atleast once every series.

Quick Comments

iM yang:

i like the use of sanctimonious twat

TABiggun · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Either way, the omitted line makes it clear it was intended as a joke, regardless of how it was received, and Xeria vs. InFi is a pretty exciting matchup.

I think we're all reading too much into the omission guys. Benji made a joke, in somewhat poor taste, to trigger this again. end of story as far as that sidetrack goes, I hope.

Are you benji?

**syfChadMann** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Xeria vs. InFi is a pretty exciting matchup.

Would have been an exciting match up.. but InFi needed to reschedule, then after Targa made a 'bad joke in poor taste' (maybe he should of suffixed it with - :P) Benji decided not to work with InFi and just take a 'free walk over win' in the match.. so it won't be played.

Quick Comments

	nGenLight:	I wanted the 2 more wins to add on top my ELO... OOOOOH
	x5.Revenant:	ｉ　ｌｏｌ－ｅｄ　ａｔ　ｔｈｅ　＂ｓｕｆｆｉｘ　ｉｔ　ｗｉｔｈ&#
	TCPKiaSu:	wow....

TABiggun · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

Would have been an exciting match up.. but InFi needed to reschedule, then after Targa made a 'bad joke in poor taste' (maybe he should of suffixed it with - :P) Benji decided not to work with InFi and just take a 'free walk over win' in the match.. so it won't be played.

What the hell, how can it be given a walkover? that's redic

**Dox** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:35 PM

I'm sure if TargA put a

at the end of his post, this whole thing would have been dismissed as a misunderstanding and xG wouldn't have taken a free win over infi.

Quick Comments

	simon:
	asdfSchnitzel:

**Maynarde** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:42 PM

Alright enough of this ":P" troll. Back on track please.

Quick Comments

	Zepph:	hehehe
	syfChadMann:	:p
	Dox:	shutup mate :P
	asdfSchnitzel:

**Frogmite** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

Would have been an exciting match up.. but InFi needed to reschedule, then after Targa made a 'bad joke in poor taste' (maybe he should of suffixed it with - :P) Benji decided not to work with InFi and just take a 'free walk over win' in the match.. so it won't be played.

inFi couldn't align a player this week so they asked xG if they could play the 5 games next week instead, or else they asked me to forfeit them for this week.

edit: but yeah let's not derail the thread

TargA · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

I'm sure if TargA put a

at the end of his post, this whole thing would have been dismissed as a misunderstanding and xG wouldn't have taken a free win over infi.

i still stand for what i said, and ive been saying it for a while now.

And a funny thing for you guys, Ive been talking to different teams (european and us teams) and a few guys that want to sponsor teams in SEA and we talked about exposure, potential etc. Pretty much everyone that has done some research of SEA hates benji and some of them even dislikes Dox ( for the same reason of being biased.)

Oh yeah, I refuse to let benji in my tournament games and I hope the rest of inFi follows suit " :P "

Quick Comments

	Dox:
	NDG.Stitch:
	simon:	interesting
	ToRSmotPokingFish:

Fourby · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargA

i still stand for what i said, and ive been saying it for a while now.

And a funny thing for you guys, Ive been talking to different teams (european and us teams) and a few guys that want to sponsor teams in SEA and we talked about exposure, potential etc. Pretty much everyone that has done some research of SEA hates benji and some of them even dislikes Dox ( for the same reason of being biased.)

Oh yeah, I refuse to let benji in my tournament games and I hope the rest of inFi follows suit " :P "
__________________

TargA, be my buddah

**Dox** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargA

Pretty much everyone that has done some research of SEA hates benji and some of them even dislikes Dox ( for the same reason of being biased.)

Hahaha that's fascinating! What/who am I biased towards?

x5_Potter · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

Hahaha that's fascinating! What/who am I biased towards?

You're biased towards towards running awesome tournaments, how dare you!

Quick Comments

	ToRSpartaz:	^
	asdfSchnitzel:	HOW DARE YOU! iTroll
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	HOW DARE HE :O
	inFeZa:	spot on.
	NOM:
	EveVendetta:

TargA · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 1:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

Hahaha that's fascinating! What/who am I biased towards?

to be honest i dont know, might be people hatin cause they be hatin.

Stallion · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 1:02 PM

My thoughts on Benji's casting are simple
I enjoy watching his casts especially the ones like at city hunter where we get to see some players come in and cast too.
The things I'd like to see benji improve on saying that is fairly simple. Try to be less biased I know Benji knows he is and probably is trying to tune it down but still needs to be said. I Also feel within XgKing though there's a perferance on the original team. Like at the most recent cityhunter in mafia vs pokerface I felt you were being harsh on pokerface and supportive of mafia. I think if anything this should be the other way around. You added these players to your roster to strengthen your team and I feel as the caster manager you want the new additions to take down the old members to make them all want to practice and get better. Also having said this I know i love going for the underdog i do live in new zealand and we love underdogs cos we always are :P

Quick Comments

	asdfSchnitzel:	<3 you man! :D
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	in rugby you aint underdogs :p
	foxmeep:	being expected to choke isn't the same as being an underdog :P
	Dox:	lol i just saw your sig <3

**Dox** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 1:02 PM

Damn!

I was wondering if it had anything to do with Rossi getting a free invite to WCG 2011 lol. Oh well!

**Apth** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 1:17 PM

eDrama aside - I'm gonna address this directly to Benji in an effort to provide some constructive criticism.

From what I've watched of your casting - which has been a fair bit - you focus too much on the negative. I mentioned this offhandedly in the chat for SGL, which you picked up on, and I'd like to elaborate a bit.

People enjoy being happy and excited. That's kind of a no brainer. Focusing on positive aspects of play serves two purposes -
• You avoid alienating supporters of the player you're being down on
• You generate a positive atmosphere

To get a little more specific, and admittedly hypothetical, if Player A crushes Player B in an engagement, my impression of your casting is that you will tend to focus more on how badly Player B did, rather than how well Player A did.

What I would suggest is attempting to skew your casting more in favour of positive comments - even if someone has a really trashy engagement, you can always put positive spin on it - it's a tournament, they're under pressure, other aspects of their game have been really strong, etc etc - and of course you have the option of elucidating how fantastic Player A's micro or positioning was.

In summary - the feel/atmosphere of your casts is a bit... mean. As a viewer, I want to walk away from a game thrilled at how epic it was. I don't need to be told how bad someone did, or how left of field their decisions were.

I sincerely hope you take that on board, because your presentation, enthusiasm and persistence are all fantastic. Switching up your attitude a little will - for me personally - make you a pleasure to watch.

./2c

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	Excellent post
	SLCN.Kez:	Well said
	Dox:	Excellent post
	FaDeBadger:	Well said
	iM yang:	Excellent post
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	well said
	Asrathiel:	Excellent post
	ROOTPetraeus:	Excellent post... oh shit
	Fourby:	Excellent post
	x5_dot:	Excellent said
	nirvAnA:	.................................................. ......... (combo breaker!)
	Bash:	Nirv will pay.
	asdfSchnitzel:	Mo excellence
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	Great post :)
	wolf:	Well post
	ToRSpartaz:	Excellent Post
	FaDeKerrigan:	Expected nothing less from the Manner Man!
	TAScarecrow:	some CBT would do wonders
	NOM:
	xGKingdelete:
	Synizta:
	Champi:	yes :)

iSt · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargA

some of them even dislikes Dox ( for the same reason of being biased.)

maybe they are just jealous cause he's the organiser of the year

RicocheT · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 1:44 PM

I don't want to jump on the hate bandwagon or anything, but there's just one thing that I can't stand about Benji's casting which is his Xtreme bias to xGKing. Yes, I understand he's the manager of xGKing, but when he's the one casting events as the main caster, he shouldn't have such huge bias towards xGKing when casting (i.e SEA league.).

If there was another thing that Benji could use work with, it would definately also have to be his negativity. Also treat you're viewers better, we're watching to see the players, not hear you tarnish their playstyle/build order or whatever. Yes some people will try un-orthodox strategies and methods, doesn't mean their builds or whatever are trash.

Hopefully you read all the criticism and look forward to more positive fun filled less-biased casting.

2c

TAXanT · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 1:47 PM

The notable criticism I have is what other people have already mentioned, the frustratingly biased casting. It has got to the point that when I'm watching Cityhunter/whatever tournament it may be that benji is casting i'll mute the sound whilst an xGKing player is in a game because all that will be pointed out is how well one of his players is going no matter how bad they'll play and like it's been mentioned already I feel it takes credit away from the opposition which is simply unfair.

xGKing boasts some of the best players in the SEA community so they generally tend to do very well in tournaments and make it to the final stages of them. I just find it annoying that other players will fight hard to get to the same point only to have their skills overshadowed/uncredited at times because they are not under his team.

This may not be Benji's intention and sure if you are a team mananger you want them to do well and cheer them on but it doesn't change that one of the principles of being a caster is to be strictly unbiased.

I think he is a good caster and obviously devotes much of his time to the SEA community, but if he wants to grow as a caster this is something that needs to be addressed as it's clearly bothering a lot of people.

That being said this thread has suprisingly produced plenty of constructive criticism for Benji to listen to and I hope he does as I believe he'll be seen in a much more positive light from SC2SEA. It would be a shame for all of this to be swept under the rug so to speak.

**PiG** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 2:18 PM

As someone who has supported Benji's stream and promotion of SEA since he first introduced me to sc2sea I don't feel this is the appropriate place for me to voice any concerns I have. I will be giving him some private advice via skype later on today.

What I do want to ask is that the "arrogant prick", "idiot" etc. be left out. This sort of criticism isn't constructive but that being said, not everyone is as diplomatic as I so I won't say you need to stop it. Just a few of you could be more diplomatic IF you want a higher chance of Benji taking the criticism positively.

I would ask Benji to look past those comments and past rivalries with other teams and players and instead really take on-board some of the criticism. Don't necessarily fix everything at once to morph yourself into Tastosis: the culmination of 20 years in eSports and 2 professional gamers. That isn't realistic. But the main things to change is really quite small and subtle attitude changes and small adjustments to honestly try to present yourself and your ideas in a better manner.

Quick Comments

	Apth:
	ToRSpartaz:	Sage
	FvRsolis:	:)
	Maynarde:	Werd.
	iM yang:	wow so bm
	syfChadMann:	:P <- For yang's rep.
	nirvAnA:	such a boss!!
	asdfSchnitzel:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	PiG ever the wise one :p
	xGKingdelete:
	EveVendetta:	Excellent Said

Meatex · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 2:22 PM

It's weird but I don't feel the bias is too much for me most of the time
Granted I don't pay full attention when watching streams as I'm usually multitasking and I do notice some things

eg. when he says that his team is going to win easily in next week's matches not only does that insult the other team - even if it may be true, its about the wording - it makes viewers less keen to tune in.
There are times in SEA events where you'll be casting a diamond versus an xGKing player and yes the diamond player likely doesn't have a chance but when casting its your job to get the viewer excited!
One player may be "favoured" but doesn't mean an upset is totally off the cards and if you insist that it is then viewers will tune out

Xenomorph · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 2:40 PM

I would like to add to this discussion. Benji - I like what you've done for SEA man, but it was pretty wrong of you to put down my players and sometimes not even focus on them in the game (Iaguz vs Sungin SEAPL match in particular). The situation I had with Soulman aswell, was I thought a lot messier than it needed to be (See **) and I really thought you could have bee a bit more lenient in the early stages of negotiations. All up though, your casting is good, but you need to consider the other player, not just xGKing's, as this may also help you coach your players if you see a weakness in their build/general play because of the opponents build.

** The xGKing vs SPR Soulman situation **

For our SEAPL match vs xGking, I had decided that we needed RS(Rising Star's) Soulman as ace, so that we would have the most optimal chance of taking the match. However, Soulman could only play on the Thursday, so the match would need to be delayed. Benji, however, said absolutely not and suggested that I needed to replace him. This to me seemed pretty harsh, and I tried to explain to him that I went to a LOT of trouble to get him to play (Korean Pro-gamers are so busy) and that I would really appreciate it if he could be more lenient considering the situation.
To make this situation worse, only 5/10 of our rosters players could actually play that week, so replacement was not an option. It was then, and ONLY then that Benji had asked his players whether the match could be delayed. He then said that Soulman could only play the Daybreak match (not the ace match) as only one of his players could do Thursday. I accepted these terms, as this was my only option and he then explained that he knew he was coming off as a bit of a d*ck about this, but its just that he thought it was very 'unproffesional' to delay matches, I agreed to an extent with this. On Tuesday night however, something very ironic happened, xGKingLight couldn't turn up to the match time due to him being called into work at last minute (it's ok Light bro, I fully understand

) and he then requested the match to be delayed. What I'm getting at is, this can be related to Soulman's situation as he is at work (Pro- gaming team) and cannot make the match time aswell. So Benji, you really shoulda been more lenient and understanding man.**

P.S. Sry for long post, just wanted to explain my side of things

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:
	Snx.FigJig:

ROOT`iaguz · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 2:40 PM

Well this is awkward....

I do agree on the bias thing. The casters job first and foremost is to make the players seem ******* awesome, not just the ones you happen to like.

The second thing is not to wave your stream numbers around. No one ******* cares.

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:	LOL awkward indeed..
	inFeZa:	viewer count gets lost within the beard of madness

**ToRSpartaz** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 2:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

Well this is awkward....

I do agree on the bias thing. The casters job first and foremost is to make the players seem ******* awesome, not just the ones you happen to like.

The second thing is not to wave your stream numbers around. No one ******* cares.

Out of respect for you man, this is really a valid point. Amongst other points I would like to contribute, but seriously im way too tired to be writing them today.

(Btw you were awesome at the LAN man ^^ iaguz "PIZZAAAAAAA RAAAAAAAAAAWR"

)

Taking into consideration these ideas they will really help improve your casting, try not to take them to heart Benji they are aimed at helping you improve as a caster and this is why you cast man cause its for the community not just you. Every individual caster out there all has something to add to this amazing community and help in its development. Numbers DO NOT reflect the achievements and skill of the caster, every caster/streamer should be acknowledged for what they are contributing to eSports.

Just a couple of thoughts

[TA]LoSt · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaDeRicocheT

huge bias towards xGKing when casting (i.e ACL etc.).

LOL

Didn't cast ACL man. Looks like we need a Maynarde feedback thread, getonitasap

Quick Comments

	Fourby:	Bayney fishing out BS since '12
	TAEdgE:	he needed longer hair
	RicocheT:	Crap. Well spotted LOL
	Dox:	maynarde's dreamy gaze was too freaking distracting, i couldn't focus on the game
	nirvAnA:	lol MAYNARDE FLOODGATES HAVE OPENED

**Maynarde** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 2:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

LOL

Didn't cast ACL man. Looks like we need a Maynarde feedback thread, getonitasap

I welcome it

Always looking to improve

Quick Comments

	cruxBsK:	This is the attitude you should have ^ with regard to feedback (not the spell)
	iM yang:	you need to be less manly so i can feel good about myself
	x5_dot:
	xGKingdelete:
	Synizta:

cruxBsK · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 2:59 PM

I must admit when I tuned into the stream and he was like blah blah something about stream viewers and if you don't like my stream etc I personally didn't like to hear that I'm sure no one else does either apart from that the same as everyone else comments RE bias casting and putting down opponent players over highlighting awesome things the other player is doing.

I think if you can't take criticism there's no point in trying to improve what you are doing to better the community and you're casting skills there's no point casting.

RicocheT · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maynarde

I welcome it

Always looking to improve

Sexier beard.
More shouting.
???
Profit

Also edited my fail post further up, wtf was I thinking putting ACL there LOL.
Well spotted by Lost~

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	Noted
	Kalikah:	I'd like to add take your shirt off during stream
	Champi:	seconded kalikah
	Mayo:	lold

Rockstar · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:23 PM

I don't really understand why this thread exists... You can't change someones personality at the drop of a hat, nor can you mould it into something that's 100% PC and reflects the views of a whole community... The guy casts because he enjoys it, obviously... He has viewers because they enjoy it... If he respects the people criticising him in this post, he would listen. If he doesn't, he won't...

My point is if the guy doesn't respect you enough to listen to you 1 on 1, why put it in a public thread? The people whom he DOES respect COULD (if they choose) confront him 1 on 1 instead of publicly, and he may actually listen. I don't feel I'm in a position to judge/confront Benji over his casting, I don't think he'd give 2 shits what I thought if I did.

A lot of this thread seems to me an attack veiled as constructive criticism.

Quick Comments

deL:

it's out of desperation

TAEdarus · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

The guy casts because he enjoys it, obviously... He has viewers because they enjoy it..

He has a monopoly over a lot of events.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

A lot of this thread seems to me an attack veiled as constructive criticism.

So you're saying the points raised are not valid criticisms but rather personal attacks?
In the words of the man himself, "I disagree."

**Maynarde** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

A lot of this thread seems to me an attack veiled as constructive criticism.

This thread was approved by nirvAnA and Benji himself. Please read the thread some more, most of these posts are actually quite constructive. I've learned a bit from it as well. Regarding the private message thing, apparently this avenue has already been explored. Whether or not he respects the people approaching him privately is another matter, hopefully someone he respects is posting in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAEdarus

He has a monopoly over a lot of events.

Not really? Not these days anyway.

**nirvAnA** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:35 PM

Time to give my thoughts on this, TGM style! (subscribers will get what i mean haha)

Stuff I like

Persistence and presence - the only SEA caster who has stayed from the beginning till now. You didn't leave once the novelty of casting went away and are by far the most hard working caster in SEA. Without you, many events would not even be casted!
Reliability / Dependability - Always showing up AND being punctual, never flaking or canceling at the last moment. This is fantastic work ethic that all casters should have and your dependability bearing in mind this is a volunteer position is a phenomenal asset to tournament organizers.
Casting Voice - Easy to understand and a nice sounding casting voice. I remember back in the day when you first appeared (before xGking) with ziE mentioning you as her favourite caster and you were generally more well liked then too!
Resourcefulness - "discovering" Xeen, Zepph and heaps of other co-casters, grooming them, teaching other casters like doble the ropes etc. Kinda like a casting mentor to some people.
Improvement of Technicalities - Love the extra effort you put in the overlays to show player pictures / information before the games sometimes. Also loved the "homestory vibe" of the last CH lan.

Stuff which can be improved

Biasness / Negativity - This is the biggest one for most people. As iaguz says "The casters job first and foremost is to make the players seem ******* awesome, not just the ones you happen to like." Casters can't undermine or talk down teams. They have to provide a neutral commentary for the viewer. Sure Streamers / Players on their own personal stream on the ladder can but when you cast a major SEA event, as a caster its your responsibility to provide a neutral opinion because that is what the SEA viewer is tuning into. As dox has said people also watch your stream because of the players / event and also because its listed on TL. IMO you should only ever measure a streamer's success by numbers if theres something comparable, say two streams at the same time of the same event in English but in the first place a comparison isn't even necessary just focus on being the best you can be or you end up limiting yourself.
Jokes - Too many cocky ones which people don't find funny. If you make "jokes" against people who don't like you already, they are not going to take it well. Imo tone done on this. Sure make as many jokes off iaguz/light/mafia etc because they are your mates / team they will be okay with it but other teams are gonna take those jokes as plain insults so be careful!

If you look around you have unawarely offended many teams ranging from EVE to SPR and TA. And if you were acting neutral you wouldn't have any of these problems! So yea you have to realise it is not just a few groups anymore... there are quite a large number of people who are unhappy of what you say during your casting.
Attitude - What Dox said - "If you don't like it, don't watch my stream" and "I get more viewers than any other SEA caster so obviously it's fine" are ridiculous. People tune in to the stream because of the games being played. You're a gateway to content that people want access to.

This is just the wrong attitude to have! It should be, if people like it, I will get more viewers and I am therefore a more successful / better streamer! And then evolving yourself to what people like. Of course, you don't want to care about complaints if its the minority, but if its the majority, like in this thread, and in the long-term if all the hate / negativity is going to affect your viewer numbers then you gotta start realizing something is wrong and change.

Likability - This stems from the attitude you have. Popular casters are well liked. A popular caster gets a ton of more viewers. Casting games is already a positive thing to do be doing for the community as it takes heaps of time and dedication. If people dislike you they go "meh" each time you cast and overlook all the effort you put in. If people like you they think you are an amazing selfless individual and the whole experience seems far more rewarding. So, get on people's good sides! Be likable!

Don't be biased, people can see you are just supporting your own team and it irks them.

As Apth has mentioned, focus on the positive! Make the game seem FUN!

Talk up other players /team instead of talkign down - talk about their achievements etc. For e.g instead of saying "Eve is a free win" say stuff like Eve is a upcoming team that many people underrate, in fact last season EveRekanise beat EnDerr in the last SEACL qualifications and they have many strong players who train hard on Korea. The result is Eve feels proud and happy to be recognised rather then angry at you, and you get well liked by them and get their support instead of hated. kelly once called souj a "all he does is cheese" after he beat GLaDe and he and WsWg hated her (and some still do) for a long time. It maybe just an "honest opinion" (and misinformed) to you but to the players its a lot more then that, these offensive words stick with people for awhile!

Don't wave your stream numbers around or talk down other SEA streamers, again it makes people mad instead of happy no need to put others down.

Don't make jokes of other teams you are not tight with as they will get offended.

Basically ask yourself what would Day 9 do!

What I hope to see

There's a lot of good posts in this thread, most of it has been constructive and from many different walks of the community. I hope you don't view it as a lynching and block out everything but rather take it as good feedback and use it as an opportunity to evolve as a streamer. It was also quite necessary because all the backlash was spilling out in a negative manner in various parts of sc2sea and by various different people to the point where it was getting out of control with random jabs in irrelevant threads. Hopefully this thread will help stop that from happening again in the future.

Imo the first change will be acceptance that there is indeed something wrong, please don't take it the wrong way and blame the community for being terrible, we are not and a lot of us like myself have taken the time to write up posts to help you. The next stage will be the decision to change/improve yourself which will result in your casting improving. That will lead to your stream improving which results in the SEA community embracing you and you getting more viewers, which is good for your stream viewer count, your sponsors and the community. Its a win win for everyone and IMO you have been holding back because you weren't aware of the majority of people's perception until this thread but now that you are please don't "block it out."

I hope to see some changes for the better for yourself and everyone.

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:
	mGGSouth:
	wolf:	boss post
	Kringe:	Dem colors and dem titles
	deL:	Covers most of my own thoughts :)
	JoFritzMD:	If benji only looks at one post, I want it to be this one.
	FaDeKerrigan:
	NOM:
	xGKingdelete:
	BaKaiNu:	Do you know that you're awesome? :)
	Nemo:	Boss style :)
	Champi:	good post
	crAzerk:	What Would Day9 Do? WWDD?
	Mayo:	^^^

**x5_dot** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maynarde

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAEdarus
He has a monopoly over a lot of events.
Not really? Not these days anyway.

That's cos Maynarde's bossing it up!

wolf · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:39 PM

I would like to hear Benji's own thoughts on this thread.

TAEdarus · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maynarde

Not really? Not these days anyway.

Forgot the Frognarde...

ROOT`iaguz · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:41 PM

I think he's at work you're gonna hvae to wait a while.

**Frogmite** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:43 PM

I think Benji should also display the HP Bay.

Quick Comments

	deL:	All casters should display the hp bay proudly at all times to be even considered a real caster.
	Synizta:
	inFeZa:	that originated on my stream.
	crAzerk:	I agree with deL, HP Bays are the most important

**iMSystem** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maynarde

I've learned a bit from it as well.

You and me both, friend

Quick Comments

Champi:

car friend! (Y)

TAEdarus · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by System

friend

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:
	TCPKiaSu:	glee lol

x5.Revenant · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 3:49 PM

Off Topic: I've just like to say that I enjoy Benji+Zepph's casting the most on SEA.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	Zepph:	<3
	AxSGRiM:
	ProAnnn:	That's 2nd. I love Benji + Xeen the most. I miss Xeen

Rockstar · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 4:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAEdarus

He has a monopoly over a lot of events.

If the tournament organiser doesn't want him he won't be there... If he's running the event he can do it however he pleases.. That's hardly a monopoly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAEdarus

So you're saying the points raised are not valid criticisms but rather personal attacks?

Not all of them, but a lot sure come across that way. Also, you're essentially talking behind his back... He's not actively here to defend himself. By the time he gets to this post it'll be probably 7 or 8 pages long of criticism directed at him... How is that in any way helpful? He might even stop casting altogether when he reads some of the stuff being said.

Rockstar · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maynarde

This thread was approved by nirvAnA and Benji himself.

Did I miss something?? It seems to me like Benji doesn't even know the thread exists yet...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

The public nature of this thread is aimed to force Benji to realise that he needs to take this seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

I'm making this thread because Benji is too proud to do so

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

in response to Benji ignoring all attempts to help him out.

I suppose I'm assuming or may have missed it but I haven't seen anything where Benji asked for this thread...

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:	You're very late to the party mate
	syfChadMann:	l2read
	simon:	oh dear
	Snx.FigJig:	^
	Dox:	Need to read the thread buddy!
	Fourby:	sigh
	NOM:	Slowpoke
	AxSGRiM:	im joining the train
	ROOTPetraeus:	LOL^
	BaKaiNu:	Warning for double posting, don't misunderstand.
	TAkrunch:	urg, hey everyone, its THAT guy
	FaDeBadger:	^

TAEdarus · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 4:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Also, you're essentially talking behind his back...

I hope thats a general "you're" since my first post was the one above.
The thread was actually posted while he was online and active in the chatbox. Should we lock the thread until he comes back?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

He's not actively here to defend himself.

Defend himself? You're implying he's being attacked. He isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

He might even stop casting altogether when he reads some of the stuff being said.

If he does that would be rather sad, I don't think people would be posting here if they didn't genuinely want to help the guy out and by proxy help the community out. Nobody has come here to scare the guy off or put him down.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:
	Dox:
	Champi:	ur so good at talking on the internet man <3

TAEdarus · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 4:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

[19/02/2012 7:04:36 PM] Bryan Choo (aLt.NirvAnA): Benji has given the go ahead with the constructive feedback thread

http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p=72460&postcount=23

In nirvAnA I trust.

(Admin note: Warned for Double Post i.e not editing previous post, like Rockstar)

deL · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 4:17 PM

Rockstar is making my head hurt.

x5.Revenant · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAdeL

Rockstar is making my head hurt.

That's what rockstars do...oh nevermind.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

loled!

iM yang · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I suppose I'm assuming or may have missed it but I haven't seen anything where Benji asked for this thread...

I suppose I'm assuming or may have missed it but I haven't seen anything that makes it seem like you actually read this thread...

Quick Comments

TABiggun:

LOL

Rockstar · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 4:39 PM

General you're..

I feel he's being attacked in a few of these posts... Veiled criticism.

No it wouldn't be good if he quit casting after reading some of these posts..

Yah I missed that part of the post, if he gave the go ahead then I spose it's ok... A lot of these posts I still feel are harsh and posted more as an attack than as any kind of constructive criticism.

Since he gave the go ahead, I'll throw in my 2c...

Benji I think sometimes you get caught in the moment. You're obviously a pretty confident guy and it shows in your casts... Nothing wrong with confidence but sometimes people can take it the wrong way and after a while they'll just think you're arrogant and dismiss it without much more thought... When you watch your own replays you're probably just as harsh on yourself as you are on the people you cast, maybe worse... I think this thread is a good example of how criticism can be a double edged sword. Noone wants to be told how bad they are so just try to take their feelings and the viewers feelings into consideration when you highlight their faults.

If you were a little more in depth with the specific reason why they are bad, without actually saying "they're bad" you can pretty much say whatever the hell you want... As long as it doesn't become personal.

e.g. "What a spastic, he can't even micro his banelings" could be said in another way such as: "That miss micro on those banelings cost him dearly, if he payed a little more attention to those 2 units that could have been the deciding factor in the game"

or

"He has 100 energy on his mains queen, what a douche his macro is disgusting" could be

"He has 100 energy on his mains queen, those missed injects are really beginning to impact on the game. He's floating minerals and the protoss army is significantly larger than his right now.

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:
	Maynarde:	Much better post
	Bash:
	PiG:
	Nemo:	Yes
	crAzerk:	yay finally

**Dox** · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 5:01 PM

Those comparisons in Rockstar's above post are really good. And I especially loved this one from NirvAnA.

Quote:

Talk up other players /team instead of talkign down - talk about their achievements etc. For e.g instead of saying "Eve is a free win" say stuff like Eve is a upcoming team that many people underrate, in fact last season EveRekanise beat EnDerr in the last SEACL qualifications and they have many strong players who train hard on Korea. The result is Eve feels proud and happy to be recognised rather then angry at you, and you get well liked by them and get their support instead of hated. kelly once called souj a "all he does is cheese" after he beat GLaDe and he and WsWg hated her (and some still do) for a long time. These offensive words stick with people!

This is all really valuable stuff.

Delraich · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 5:20 PM

The only thing I can really add is to fake enthusiasm when you are not really in the mood for casting.

For example, I often tune in at the tail end of a cast which is usually late at night on the east coast (it is not so late for me here in Perth). From my perspective, I just want to chill out and watch a good game and zone out before I go to bed. If during this time you are tired and keep reminding us how tired you are and how you have work the next morning and you hope that they all in each other and then get really upset when they play a longer/ macro game and then hope for a bad engagement so you can go to sleep, this does take away some of the enjoyment factor from my side.

TAlkori · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 5:28 PM

I personally like to watch benji for his arrogance, bias and crisitism of players.. thats why I watch it because I find it entertaining.

Quick Comments

	TCPKiaSu:	lol
	Dox:

Peleus · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 5:36 PM

The vast majority of stuff has already been mentioned, so I'll try and post this without sounding too negative.

No one can deny your dedication, there is no other caster that spends as much time going to events and casting online as you, that's a great thing.

The biggest issue I have however is that it seems as though the issues surrounding your casting doesn't only negatively effect yourself, but mainly your team. Constantly it feels like you're personally is so overbearing that your players are pushed to a secondary role, and xGKing becomes more about Benji than it does about the fabulous players that are in the team. It just feels, rightly or wrongly that you get off on the 'fame' that comes along with being involved in a team while not considering that your players should be front and centre more than anything. I just feels as though you get a big head over xGKing when really it's Mafia, Iaguz, Light, Poker, Myuu, Jazbaz and Bielsko that do the heavy lifting. If you're stream was separate from xGKing than this would be a moot point, but considering such heavy bias on it I think it must be considered related.

This personality trait ties into your casting by the obsession over casting numbers and viewers, as if you're the only reason they are watching. The best way I've seen it put is you're the gateway to content people want to watch, but it's the content that they want to see. So I suppose the question is why the f$#@ am I posting this? Just don't watch right? The biggest reason why is because often you're getting your streams listed on TL, we're starting to get international people checking out the SEA scene and you're the impression that they get. This doesn't have to be a negative thing if you work on some aspects that have been raised here, but currently I think more people are turned off rather than motived to continue watching SEA events, and when that occurs I find it a horrible thing considering we all want SEA to grow. Along with that I feel some xGKing members deserve to have the focus more on them rather than their manager who should be behind the scene's promoting them.

I know it may all sound rather contradictory (I mean heavy bias to xGKing but not promoting players, wtf?!) but perhaps the description of what I feel would be an ideal stream might clear things up. I'd love one day to be able to tune into a stream that equally highlights the actions of both sides without bias. I'd love to hear when an xGKing member does something bad and how someone else punished it rather than simply being called cheesy. I'd love to hear when an xGKing member does something really well (as long as they actually have). Thankfully xGKing has players who's actions can speak for themselves, they don't need artificial hype surrounding them meaning viewers simply switch off to any positive points mentioned thinking it's just more bias. Then when Mafia wins it's great to hear about how Mafia played, not how xGKing is great. Hype the players not that tag that's attached to them which you happen to share, results will carry your brand along with the player.

Bit rambling, sorry.

Quick Comments

Dox:

wonderful

dippa · Tue, 21st-Feb-2012, 5:42 PM

I don't really care about Benji's casting, I've only listened to it a couple of times so I can't really say one way or another.

My issue with Benji stems from his behaviour at the Battle.net Invitational last year at INTIME.

TAriichard got there early and was setting up all the computers, moderating the stream and making sure things ran smoothly.

I was there as press only, so I observed for the majority of the day and hung out with Richard a lot; I'd only joined TA a month or two ago, so I was still getting to know everyone.

After one of the matches, Benji came out from the caster's booth (a room on the opposite side of the venue from where the games were being played) and started asking Richard questions about the stream.

My problem was in the way that Benji asked the questions. They were extremely abrupt and incredibly rude for someone who had been working their arse off all day.

I don't doubt that Benji knew what he was doing and that he knows shitloads more than Richard about streaming. But the manner in which he spoke to someone who had been nothing but helpful and respectable was completely disgraceful.

I've seen and ran a lot of LAN events myself in various locations. Often it's necessary to be blunt and rude to players to stop them from wasting time. Nobody wants to go home after midnight. But admins should never talk to each other that way, and in nearly a decade of going to LANs for various games and events, I've never been as disgusted as how I saw Benji talk to Richard that day.

If it was just one time I wouldn't mind; stress etc. But it happened throughout the course of the day and I'll never forget the complete and utter lack of politeness and just gratitude that Richard was shown by SEA's Best Caster(TM).

You don't have to blow someone to show gratitude; just don't treat them like a piece of shit.

Quick Comments

	cruxSpoon:	Probably good points, wrong thread
	VoxMSI.Rogue:
	AxSGRiM:	im just reppin cos i did a cheese on ladder
	nGenLight:	Alex this isn't an everybody hang Benji thread, come on.
	Fourby:	Screw you light, This is a perfectly legit reason why people dont wanna watch the stream, but have to coz he's the only one casting the high level games
	nirvAnA:	Agree with light there, dippa tone it down no need for those words
	Snx.FigJig:
	deL:	richard was a hero at blizzcon
	Dox:	ugh, the battle.net invitational was rough
	pRoTimber:
	TADivinity:	Completely agree with Fourby's point right here.

Strafe · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 2:10 AM

Just like Targa I won't let Benji in my games anymore, no matter what. Maybe this can be taken into consideration by Benji that his arrogance and blatant lack of respect for players he isn't familiar with really brought it this far and that it's not just talk.

**iM tgun** · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 2:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dippa

I don't really care about Benji's casting, I've only listened to it a couple of times so I can't really say one way or another.

My issue with Benji stems from his behaviour at the Battle.net Invitational last year at INTIME.

TAriichard got there early and was setting up all the computers, moderating the stream and making sure things ran smoothly.

I was there as press only, so I observed for the majority of the day and hung out with Richard a lot; I'd only joined TA a month or two ago, so I was still getting to know everyone.

After one of the matches, Benji came out from the caster's booth (a room on the opposite side of the venue from where the games were being played) and started asking Richard questions about the stream.

My problem was in the way that Benji asked the questions. They were extremely abrupt and incredibly rude for someone who had been working their arse off all day.

I don't doubt that Benji knew what he was doing and that he knows shitloads more than Richard about streaming. But the manner in which he spoke to someone who had been nothing but helpful and respectable was completely disgraceful.

I've seen and ran a lot of LAN events myself in various locations. Often it's necessary to be blunt and rude to players to stop them from wasting time. Nobody wants to go home after midnight. But admins should never talk to each other that way, and in nearly a decade of going to LANs for various games and events, I've never been as disgusted as how I saw Benji talk to Richard that day.

If it was just one time I wouldn't mind; stress etc. But it happened throughout the course of the day and I'll never forget the complete and utter lack of politeness and just gratitude that Richard was shown by SEA's Best Caster(TM).

You don't have to blow someone to show gratitude; just don't treat them like a piece of shit.

Could you please shoot me a PM describing this further? I can't comment on this without knowing the full story.

On the topic of the thread, there is only one thing I wish to add, which I think will come off as harsh, but that's just how I am.

You're a good play-by-play caster. You're an alright analytical caster. You don't play enough to understand the top tier well enough to call out players for being bad; you're able to recognise exceptional play (pulling scvs away from a scouting drone to simulate less workers to force an overreaction), but the same could easily be mistaken as bad play (omg he just misclicked his scvs away, wtf). I feel like pairing you up with a really good analytical caster (I'm talking like Artosis level: someone who just studies / practices the game) would do wonders, as you cast battles pretty well (although, don't try to build up battles which are clearly going to be landslides one way or the other; I understand that you're attempting to create hype, but it has an indirect effect of making you look as if you know much less about the game). I'm rambling, but I guess the focal point of my post would be, instead of getting a co-caster like Zeph (honestly, would be good with play-by-play, banter, etc in my opinion) find a co-caster who is crazy analytical.

Feel like I should re-iterate that this is all just my opinion, obviously not going to be 100% correct, and I am open to discussion.

Also, anyone flat out insulting him is a ****. You know who you are. *****.

**nGenLight** · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 2:41 AM

Er Fourby.... regarding Dippa's post. I wasn't trying to say I disagree, but it was totally off track, this thread was supposed to help Benji, not find every thing he has ever done wrong to lynch him with. It felt like, OMG A BENJI THREAD *comes in to throw a stone at Benji*, not cool man.

The rep system is retarded because as long a post is cleverly constructed/or the player is well liked in the community, regardless of whether it was off topic or one-sided argument it gets alot of upvotes.

Quick Comments

	Bash:	Relevance! +1
	wolf:

**iM tgun** · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 2:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

The rep system is retarded because as long a post is cleverly constructed/or the player is well liked in the community, regardless of whether it was off topic or one-sided argument it gets alot of upvotes.

This is why I had my rep abilities (pos / neg) revoked: I told nirvana I thought it was stupid and just started neg / pos repping random posts because it honestly holds very little value.

EDIT: **** YOUUUUUUUUU

Quick Comments

	ROOT`iaguz:	but I still have this power at least.
	NvPinder:	Get a load of my power.
	iM yang:	POWER OVERWHELMING
	deL:	exactly what someone with no friends WOULD say! xD
	NvRossi:	Pelican
	Champi:	u mirin my rep aesthetics bro?
	cruxBsK:	coldPOWER
	TABiggun:	judas judaaaaaaaaaaas
	syfChadMann:	I like turtles
	TAScarecrow:	circle jerk ftw
	Bash:	so much circlejerking on rep comments. T.T
	Rockstar:
	Synizta:
	TAkrunch:	have some rep
	Cool30:	Rep POWER

ROOT`iaguz · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 2:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgun

This is why I had my rep abilities (pos / neg) revoked: I told nirvana I thought it was stupid and just started neg / pos repping random posts because it honestly holds very little value.

I tried to fight the law too man.

The law won.

Quick Comments

	TABjornbrandr:
	TAEdarus:	Breakin' rocks in the hot sun...

**nGenLight** · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 2:54 AM

I like how Tgun and Nirvana stated the awesome things Benji is doing to go along with the usual criticism/advice - This is a much nicer/efficient way to make the stubborn guy that is Benji try to do things differently.

I don't see why every connection to Benji and arrogance has to be unearthed, neither are you making a new argument. It feels exactly the same as when people tried to find every little thing/anything to attack Kelly with.

Growing up as a child I always worked better with encouragement as opposed to constant criticism with not a word of praise of anything I'm doing right. Sometimes I wonder if you guys are really trying to help Benji out or just having a

face. Because if it is the former than you might want to rethink your approach.

Quick Comments

	EveVendetta:	Agreed, there's also too much shooting down without giving of advice
	nirvAnA:
	Welshy:

**iM tgun** · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 2:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

I tried to fight the law too man.

The law won.

Well.. ****.

dippa · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 3:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Er Fourby.... regarding Dippa's post. I wasn't trying to say I disagree, but it was totally off track, this thread was supposed to help Benji, not find every thing he has ever done wrong to lynch him with. It felt like, OMG A BENJI THREAD *comes in to throw a stone at Benji*, not cool man.

The rep system is retarded because as long a post is cleverly constructed/or the player is well liked in the community, regardless of whether it was off topic or one-sided argument it gets alot of upvotes.

That wasn't the point of my post; I was trying to point out something that I don't think Benji would have noticed (but I certainly did). Apparently it wasn't constructive because there wasn't anything positive in what I said, but there you go -_-

**nGenLight** · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 3:14 AM

Ah I see my apologies. I would agree that Benji wouldn't have noticed it, and if I was Richard or yourself I'd feel pretty crappy too. I know this story myself and just felt like this wasn't the right place to deliver it - as it felt more like a lump than an advice. But I know how you work Alex, you always deliver very strong "ooomph" posts, which is actually quite entertianing. I just didn't enjoy it right here.

dippa · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 3:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Ah I see my apologies. I would agree that Benji wouldn't have noticed it, and if I was Richard or yourself I'd feel pretty crappy too. I know this story myself and just felt like this wasn't the right place to deliver it - as it felt more like a lump than an advice. But I know how you work Alex, you always deliver very strong "ooomph" posts, which is actually quite entertianing. I just didn't enjoy it right here.

that's a good point.

here's some positive reinforcement ... I LOVE YOU RAY

(no homo)

(but you are right, also I had to hit reply to notice your edit, fkn ninja)

ProAnnn · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 5:22 AM

Like what i said before, there's no 1 week without drama in esports.

Quick Comments

fray`Alpha:

lol totoally agree

NvPinder · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 8:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

I like how Tgun and Nirvana stated the awesome things Benji is doing to go along with the usual criticism/advice - This is a much nicer/efficient way to make the stubborn guy that is Benji try to do things differently.

Growing up as a child I always worked better with encouragement as opposed to constant criticism with not a word of praise of anything I'm doing right. Sometimes I wonder if you guys are really trying to help Benji out or just having a

face. Because if it is the former than you might want to rethink your approach.

This isn't kindergarten, and just because Benji acts like a child doesn't mean we will treat him as one. Seriously this is utterly ridiculous, I feel like you're trying to be a 'my little pony' character in this thread Ray.

This is the CRITICISM thread, people are going to criticize, we get it, Benji's getting drilled to shit in this thread, and it's been a looooooooooooooooooong time coming, and probably feels pretty shitty for him, but people have been telling him for a while that he needs to stop acting in certain ways and the community is finally fed up with him ignoring us as a whole.

Quote:

I don't see why every connection to Benji and arrogance has to be unearthed, neither are you making a new argument. It feels exactly the same as when people tried to find every little thing/anything to attack Kelly with.

You could almost think of this thread as an intervention, everyone wants a go at calling out exactly what pisses them off about Benji's behavior. and TBH, since he's always shrugging it off as "just the same few people saying the same old thing", I think the more people that post and tell him how they feel, even if it is just rehashing what someone else said, the better.

Quick Comments

	nGenLight:	Just gotta agree to disagree on how to make someone better =/
	breadfan:	criticism is not just about highlighting the negatives though
	Fourby:
	TAEdarus:
	Rockstar:	interventions are a last resort usually reserved for extreme situations. They are typically composed of FRIENDS and FAMILY and even then they rarely work. This whole thread is a mass circlejerk and I personally can't believe it hasn't been locked.
	JaFF:	the cold hard truth

breadfan · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 8:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinder

I think the more people that post and tell him how they feel, even if it is just rehashing what someone else said, the better.

Wouldn't have posted if not for this^^

I feel that Benji fills a very important role in the scene. He's a team guy. He's all about xG.

Someone (Pinder I think? too lazy to dig through sorry, should have posted this last night) said that Benji was "better" at ACL GC than at other LANs. I haven't been to other LANs he's been at, so my only impression was ACL GC, where I got no impression of arrogance or anything negative at all. I sat next to him and watched iaguz play GLaDe - he was just there, cheering on his team. This was only for a few matches, I was hardly in his back pocket the whole weekend, but I didn't at any point think poorly of the guy.

Honestly I feel his role in the scene is almost opposite to Dox. Dox is a community oriented type of guy. He puts everything in for the good of the community. Benji, on the other hand, focuses solely on xG.

I don't think that either of them is right or wrong. I feel they have different views on what eSports in SEA needs, and I'm sure they totally disagree with each other's views a lot of the time, but I honestly believe we need both.

In saying this, when casting I feel Benji needs to take off his xG hat and put on his neutral one. When you cast someone else's event, commentary should consider their interests first and foremost, and 99% of the time that means to be totally even handed in your commentary. I feel he can (and should) play the role of championing his team any other time. Ultimately, tournament administrators can have a lot of influence here, as they can just tell him what they want from him, and if he doesn't deliver that they can remove him as a caster for their event.

I feel Benji doesn't need to change if he goes ahead streams an "xG cast", or if he casts xG games and actually declares that this is the xG show, and his mission is to showcase the team.

I feel some steps toward improvement (on neutrality) might be:

- Not mentioning xG when they aren't playing more than any other team that is not playing (e.g. when Eve play TA, don't mention xG more than you mention say Herocraft)
- Highlighting more flaws in his own players' play and more positives in opponents (I agree that it can sound like "mafia is perfect, his opponent must have recently had his hands amputated"). It doesn't need to be totally even, but many people point out that they notice this.
- Not casting xG in events like SEACL at all. I don't think this should be enforced on Benji, but I think that if he wants to improve, he could voluntarily cast only other teams' games, at least for a little while

iM yang · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 10:24 AM

I can't watch a lot of SEA casting, I get about 5 minutes into a game and then have to mute the stream. I can't stand incorrect calls on the game flow, so if you don't know what's likely to happen, don't say anything about it. That's the only thing I didn't see in this thread. Other than that, bias, swearing, negativity are all factors that make you heard to listen to for me.

Unstable · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 10:58 AM

A couple of points I feel like I need to point out.

- You will never have a commentator who can remove all bias. They can tone it down but it will always be there, they are emotionally connected to those players. Be it Benji with xG me with FXO or artosis with his friends, clide, nestea ect. Tone it down, sure. Remove it, no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SQL.yang

I can't watch a lot of SEA casting, I get about 5 minutes into a game and then have to mute the stream. I can't stand incorrect calls on the game flow.

- When it comes to players who are high masters/grandmaster level you will never have a commentator who will be on your level unless it is another player but players cannot be casters and stay at their level there aren't enough hours in the day. There are ways that casters can communicate to be more neutral when calling plays, but everyone gets it wrong. yes even Apollo and Artosis from time to time. Reason being, casters must learn every match up intricately. You only have to learn one. Is this an excuse for getting things wrong? No. But you can help everyone by not muting the stream, taking notes and send them on to Benji/whoever casts later so that they can learn their mistakes and improve on it. This is what I do with Wolf/Raelcun and a number of pro players who help us improve, the same way that every other pro caster does. While I understand its frustrating, remember that you are in the 1% of the audience and practising camera control/voice patterns and chemistry with their caster is what has to take up majority of the time. Not playing the game as much as you get to. So help them help you!

I can honestly say, without the help of del/pinder/deth/iaguz ect ect from when I was starting out I would not be where I am today, not even close. Was it easy? no. nobody likes being told straight up what people don't like about you but push through it. There were many a heated discussions because emotion got in the way back then but you have to push through it. If you are open minded with them or any other pro you will improve and they will respect you for it.

- Where has benji's friends/xG been through all of this? I understand that this is a snapping point but where are they before it gets to this? Why have you let down your team mate but not helping him with these points.

- There is no such thing as "haters will be haters" It is the job of a commentator to please everyone that they can. Some things like "their voice" "his face looks ugly" you cant help, but every single other point that can EVER be brought up can be improved upon. I've seen multiple people take the road of "haters will be haters" and as soon as they reach saying that, they have peaked as a caster and disappear shortly after.

Quick Comments

	Bash:	this kid used to cast BSG's. Respect yo.
	TAriiChard:	great post
	nGenLight:
	Champi:	good perspective and advice, well said
	TAEdgE:
	deL:	I watch casters for their ugly faces
	NDG.Stitch:	Well said!!!
	Flamga:
	x5_dot:
	Maynarde:
	Fourby:	Sell waid
	Nemo:	Excellent post

Champi · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 11:21 AM

It took me a long hard think to decide to post in here, because as Benji knows, and I'm sure most of you know, I am not his biggest fan, I border on Hatred towards him, but I have my own personal reasons for this, and anyone who needs to know why, does know why, and nothing more needs to be said on that.

However, this thread is for constructive criticism for Benji to help him better himself, and I'm all for someone trying to change for the better, even if i hate them.

It's hard to put anything in here that hasnt already been said at least twice, and I'm sure what i've got to say will sound familiar, but as pinder said, the more people voicing their opinions, the bigger impact it will have, and from what has been incinuated earlier, we may need a lot of impact to try and get Benji to accept that we want to help him, not just seem like we are hating on him.

(Now, I am going to use a word which may not sound all too friendly, but by no means am i about to use this word to try and offend Benji, or use it to "personally attack" him, i thought long and hard about which word i wanted to use and I've made my decision, even though it comes off as a little blunt.)

In my opinion, the biggest issue Benji has with his casting, is that he is a complete 'Tool'.

Nobody in here has argued that he lacks the dedication, the passion, the effort, or the punctuality, to perform as a caster, in fact, that is what he is praised for the most.

There are criticisms for other things like lack of knowledge due to never playing the game, being biased towards xG, and being more negative in his casts rather than positive and optimistic, but in my opinion, these flaws are not stemming from a problem he is experiencing as a caster, but rather just because of his personality!

He is dubbed by most as arrogant, narcissistic, negative, biased, disconnected from criticism, and is known to power trip from time to time in game lobbies, and boast about his stream viewers etc.

As fantastic as it is that we have decided to make a criticism thread to help him realise and correct his flaws, instead of letting him run his course until he is black listed in SEA, I feel like if Benji accepts the fact that he needs to make some changes, he will need to look much deeper than just changing the way he casts, but change his attitude towards people altogether, as it is a lot easier for someone to accept and correct flaws in casting, then it is to accept and correct flaws in their personality, ESPECIALLY if said person is happy with who they are and what they do in life.

I can't emphasise enough that the problem stems from Benji simply being himself on stream. And if any change is to occur in his casting, it needs to be some serious re working in his personality and attitude towards other people. Which as i said before, is not going to be easy, and probably not even going to be welcomed by him.

I do encourage Benji to think about this though, and think about maybe somehow trying to improve his social skills, as i feel it will bring him nothing but positive results in all aspects of his life, not just his casting.

All the best with your future sir.

Quick Comments

	Peleus:	So totally agree!!
	x5_dot:
	simon:	spot on
	Fourby:
	oGrNsCo:
	TARane:	agree
	TABjornbrandr:	Absolutely agree
	TAEdarus:	Very assertive, I like.
	Rockstar:	.
	iVnStinger:	^ Needle in the haystack.
	TAkrunch:	In my opinion, the biggest issue Benji has with his casting, is that he is a complete 'Tool'.""
	dippa:	this post is so good it makes me question whether you were under the influence at the time of writing

**inFeZa** · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgun

*****.

No censorship? My EYES BURN T_______T

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

gg sc2sea censor.

TABjornbrandr · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChampi

It took me a long hard think to decide to post in here, because as Benji knows, and I'm sure most of you know, I am not his biggest fan, I border on Hatred towards him, but I have my own personal reasons for this, and anyone who needs to know why, does know why, and nothing more needs to be said on that.

However, this thread is for constructive criticism for Benji to help him better himself, and I'm all for someone trying to change for the better, even if i hate them.

It's hard to put anything in here that hasnt already been said at least twice, and I'm sure what i've got to say will sound familiar, but as pinder said, the more people voicing their opinions, the bigger impact it will have, and from what has been incinuated earlier, we may need a lot of impact to try and get Benji to accept that we want to help him, not just seem like we are hating on him.

(Now, I am going to use a word which may not sound all too friendly, but by no means am i about to use this word to try and offend Benji, or use it to "personally attack" him, i thought long and hard about which word i wanted to use and I've made my decision, even though it comes off as a little blunt.)

In my opinion, the biggest issue Benji has with his casting, is that he is a complete 'Tool'.

Nobody in here has argued that he lacks the dedication, the passion, the effort, or the punctuality, to perform as a caster, in fact, that is what he is praised for the most.

There are criticisms for other things like lack of knowledge due to never playing the game, being biased towards xG, and being more negative in his casts rather than positive and optimistic, but in my opinion, these flaws are not stemming from a problem he is experiencing as a caster, but rather just because of his personality!

He is dubbed by most as arrogant, narcissistic, negative, biased, disconnected from criticism, and is known to power trip from time to time in game lobbies, and boast about his stream viewers etc.

As fantastic as it is that we have decided to make a criticism thread to help him realise and correct his flaws, instead of letting him run his course until he is black listed in SEA, I feel like if Benji accepts the fact that he needs to make some changes, he will need to look much deeper than just changing the way he casts, but change his attitude towards people altogether, as it is a lot easier for someone to accept and correct flaws in casting, then it is to accept and correct flaws in their personality, ESPECIALLY if said person is happy with who they are and what they do in life.

I can't emphasise enough that the problem stems from Benji simply being himself on stream. And if any change is to occur in his casting, it needs to be some serious re working in his personality and attitude towards other people. Which as i said before, is not going to be easy, and probably not even going to be welcomed by him.

I do encourage Benji to think about this though, and think about maybe somehow trying to improve his social skills, as i feel it will bring him nothing but positive results in all aspects of his life, not just his casting.

All the best with your future sir.

If there is anything that I would agree with the most, it would have to be this here. You cannot just 'change' the way you do things unless you look at what intrinsically makes you act that way.

I genuinely do not feel as though Benji means malice in his words or his actions. Whilst I can see exactly how upset and frustrated a huge number of people are with him (and rightfully so, may I say), I do not believe that Benji set making that happen as his goal.

My general impression of Benji is a bloke who's thrown himself out into a very, very large community and he just doesn't know how to communicate successfully with people. As any public speaker will tell you, communication is the key. If you cannot articulate your opinions in an open and friendly manner, how can you expect people to find you likeable or your points agreeable? Although one does not have to brown-nose every viewer (to be honest, there are plenty of wankers in stream chats - just look at Destiny or Idra's stream chat), it does pay to learn how to be constructive in your mannerisms.

I do believe that everything else I would say has been said before, but with regards to this post, I truly feel as though this is the source of the problem.

Quick Comments

	TARane:	agree
	Champi:
	Rockstar:	This post gets 2 +reps and the guy that calls him a tool gets 10...

**syfChadMann** · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 7:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaDeBjornbrandr

I genuinely do not feel as though Benji means malice in his words or his actions. Whilst I can see exactly how upset and frustrated a huge number of people are with him (and rightfully so, may I say), I do not believe that Benji set making that happen as his goal.

This is why I asked for Criticism.. and a wake up call for benji to change his ways.

He is not malicious, his intent is never to truely harm people (though I feel he doesn't care much for some people - fair enough). Benji just needs to know that while he is the primary caster for the content that we all want access to - he needs to return that favour to us and deliver the content in a fair, professional and polite manner.

Also, Wow - Champi has done a great job with his post.

I feel that this thread has run its course however, everything has been said - most comments now are derailments or people saying they agree. It has shown that a wide cross section of the community were fed up with Benji's attitude and needed to do something about it.

I would like to turn the topic of discussion towards thanking Benji for all the hours of effort he puts into this community. For me, this thread was a result of Benji not wanting to listen, and SC2SEA not knowing how to say it. Now its all out there, Benji has alot to get through with this but I hope he can. He is a devoted individual, something that this community needs to progress. I don't wish for there to be any bad blood between him and any of the posters in this thread. The purpose of this thread was the give Benji a wake up call - Please fix your ways before we stop tuning in, before top level players refuse you into their games and before sc2sea chases you out.

I hope that you can take what has been posted here as a way to improve and grow. I for one am always here to talk to you about these issues (though I doubt I'd be the kind of person you would turn to).

Thank you Benji for all your work for SC2SEA.

Quick Comments

	Zepph:	well spoken
	dragonnaus:	waste of time this thread
	Synizta:	counter-pointless rep (Dragon)
	TABjornbrandr:	Definitely concur and also counter-neg to dragon
	FvRphoneheha:	I hereby knight you Sir Chadmann the Reconciliatory
	Champi:

Fourby · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

*Rockstar: *
interventions are a last resort usually reserved for extreme situations. They are typically composed of FRIENDS and FAMI...

@Rockstar:

I'm pretty sure this situation is becoming quite close to last resort, as some just can't handle it anymore.

Yes mostly an intervention is held by FRIENDS and FAMILY, but the reason for this is because they are the MOST AFFECTED by the person. In this case it is the community.

/Usually you dont reply to rep comments I know, but this guy constantly bad reps stupid things and I just cant stay silent about it anymore.. It's really annoying

Rockstar · Wed, 22nd-Feb-2012, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourby

@Rockstar:

I'm pretty sure this situation is becoming quite close to last resort, as some just can't handle it anymore.

Yes mostly an intervention is held by FRIENDS and FAMILY, but the reason for this is because they are the MOST AFFECTED by the person. In this case it is the community.

/Usually you dont reply to rep comments I know, but this guy constantly bad reps stupid things and I just cant stay silent about it anymore.. It's really annoying

actually in the entire time I've been on this forum I think this is the only thread I've ever neg repped in. I don't even like repping at all. I neg repped in this thread to somewhat balance the circlejerk rep being thrown around. "hey man great job calling a guy a tool..." "oh man that was real clever how you spent like 2 paragraphs explaining that calling him a tool is OK and constructive" The post where he was called a tool gets 10 +reps while actual constructive posts get 2... ridiculous.

Anyway, who am I to say anything against the bias in this thread. I mean if the guy whom this thread is directed at hasn't even replied to any of you why should I bother? (Also thats kind of a big thing in itself isn't it). I suppose it's because I see injustice and don't like it. I'm not the kind to bend my morals for popularity and I never will be. This thread is wrong. If I saw some guy copping punches in the street for next to no reason I'd step in there too...

All the people "constructively criticising" Benji in this thread need to ask themselves why the hell they have the right. As far as I'm concerned he's dedicated a lot of time and effort into his fans/viewers and he obviously does what he does because he enjoys it. I'm not in any way saying criticism isn't a good tool for learning, but this thread is an absolute mockery when it comes to constructive criticism.

Benji is a caster, not a punching bag. Don't like his casting don't watch it. This whole thread is a joke and why it exists is beyond me. Have the balls to say your shit in private without the circlejerk rep... If you're not in a position to talk to him in a 1 on 1 basis than why the hell are you criticising him? Because you watch his stream? Don't ******* watch it.

Bring on the neg rep, I really don't care. I see a guy being abused by a bunch of "Bullies" (god I hate that word so much but it's the best for this situation) and I don't like it.

For the record some of the posts in this thread WERE constructive. This response is in no way directed towards the authors of those posts.

Quick Comments

	x5_Potter:	What a tool.
	Apth:	Entitled to an opinion, as are all of us
	syfChadMann:	go back and read the thread - then learn about the back story. -_-
	Synizta:	looks like a pointless post.
	Champi:	Total Moonstar

oGrNsCo · Thu, 23rd-Feb-2012, 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

actually in the entire time I've been on this forum I think this is the only thread I've ever neg repped in. I don't even like repping at all. I neg repped in this thread to somewhat balance the circlejerk rep being thrown around. "hey man great job calling a guy a tool..." "oh man that was real clever how you spent like 2 paragraphs explaining that calling him a tool is OK and constructive" The post where he was called a tool gets 10 +reps while actual constructive posts get 2... ridiculous.

Anyway, who am I to say anything against the bias in this thread. I mean if the guy whom this thread is directed at hasn't even replied to any of you why should I bother? (Also thats kind of a big thing in itself isn't it). I suppose it's because I see injustice and don't like it. I'm not the kind to bend my morals for popularity and I never will be. This thread is wrong. If I saw some guy copping punches in the street for next to no reason I'd step in there too...

All the people "constructively criticising" Benji in this thread need to ask themselves why the hell they have the right. As far as I'm concerned he's dedicated a lot of time and effort into his fans/viewers and he obviously does what he does because he enjoys it. I'm not in any way saying criticism isn't a good tool for learning, but this thread is an absolute mockery when it comes to constructive criticism.

Benji is a caster, not a punching bag. Don't like his casting don't watch it. This whole thread is a joke and why it exists is beyond me. Have the balls to say your shit in private without the circlejerk rep... If you're not in a position to talk to him in a 1 on 1 basis than why the hell are you criticising him? Because you watch his stream? Don't ******* watch it.

Bring on the neg rep, I really don't care. I see a guy being abused by a bunch of "Bullies" (god I hate that word so much but it's the best for this situation) and I don't like it.

For the record some of the posts in this thread WERE constructive. This response is in no way directed towards the authors of those posts.

no man, we not try to bully Benji..
Just that he mostly represent SEA for us in the major sea tournament (streaming), so other people from other community see our stream would have a better impression to us.
If we care for Benji we will voice out our thoughts to him (what we doing here now) and not letting him know will be worse.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	Fourby:
	Champi:

TAEdarus · Thu, 23rd-Feb-2012, 8:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

This thread is wrong. If I saw some guy copping punches in the street for next to no reason I'd step in there too...

Oh sorry, for a moment there I thought you read the thread and understood the overwhelming consensus that there IS a reason for people giving Benji feedback through a public medium since, through any other means, he shrugs it off with a "same shit same people" sorta bullshit attitude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

All the people "constructively criticising" Benji in this thread need to ask themselves why the hell they have the right. As far as I'm concerned he's dedicated a lot of time and effort into his fans/viewers and he obviously does what he does because he enjoys it. I'm not in any way saying criticism isn't a good tool for learning, but this thread is an absolute mockery when it comes to constructive criticism.

Because without these PLAYERS (the ones who are criticising him), who the hell would he be dedicating his time to cast? What would you do if you were, say, an AFL player who goes home to rewatch a game you just played in, only to have Bruce Mcavaney hang shit on you endlessly and talk up the opposition like their shit doesn't stink and the whole world should get down on their knees and start subserviently sucking their dicks?

Its bullshit and it has to stop. Thats the opinion of the people posting in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Benji is a caster, not a punching bag. Don't like his casting don't watch it. This whole thread is a joke and why it exists is beyond me.

Don't you feel that giving someone the opportunity to reconcile with the people they've offended is fair? We're trying to help the guy to extend his audience and mend fences with his previous / existing audience he pushed away through his arrogant self-involved comments.

I'm sorry, to me this thread feels like people trying to help the guy rather than just "not watch".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Have the balls to say your shit in private without the circlejerk rep...

Again good thread-reading skills!
Many people have tried. All have failed to get any positive outcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

If you're not in a position to talk to him in a 1 on 1 basis than why the hell are you criticising him? Because you watch his stream? Don't ******* watch it.

The point of this thread is to stop that from happening. People like Benji when hes not talking xGKing up or belittling others. They WANT to be able to watch his stream without him applying his heavy bias, poor jokes and bad manner toward non-xGKing players (and also have a more positive view on games, talk about whats good not whats bad).

As a couple of people has said its getting close to the point that they will stop watching, and Benji won't be able to stroke his stream-viewers e-peen anymore.

They're trying to help him

Quote:

Originally Posted by oGrNsCo

no man, we not try to bully Benji..
Just that he mostly represent SEA for us in the major sea tournament (streaming), so other people from other community see our stream would have a better impression to us.
If we care for Benji we will voice out our thoughts to him (what we doing here now) and not letting him know will be worse.

What he said.

Given that you have misunderstood the purpose and intent of the thread, and also failed to read it in entirety before posting I feel this may be a lost cause. If you can't do it then why should anyone expect Benji to?

Quite sad this may lead to Benji losing supporters and stream viewers, and subsequently a portion of any youtube / twitch.tv income he may make which relies on these people supporting his content.

Ohhh, just thought of a brilliant analogy. Kyle Sandilands. Even though i'm in the same "position of right to criticise" (as is the rest of the public), hes ultimately an entertainer and if you end up pissing off the people you rely on to have the "job" then why the f*ck are you even bothering to do it? You're gonna lose the support and ultimately the purpose of what you're doing... In Benji's case he'll end up losing the supporters his stream relies on.

TL

R - Pull YOUR head in and read the god damned thread properly and understand the intent before you get up on your high horse.

Quick Comments

oGrNsCo:

Love the Sandilands example hahah

foxmeep · Thu, 23rd-Feb-2012, 9:00 AM

At what point in history has someone in a position of significance been reformed instead of replaced? I doubt Benji will ever be the model representative for SEA that you all want him to be. The fact is that people rarely ever change significantly.

Unfortunately for the SEA community, you're all just willing to sit back and do nothing about it. The only reason Benji is where he is now is because he's worked for it, and you've all let him get there. The man is who he is, and it's been widely known for a long time now.

While I totally agree that Benji should be a better representative for SEA given the position he is in, it's ridiculous to expect him to be anything different simply because he's there. If people really want to help the SEA community expand, then people are going to have to step up and put in the effort to make it happen.

Quick Comments

TAEdarus:

I like your reasoning.

Spud · Thu, 23rd-Feb-2012, 9:42 AM

I like big-boy Benji and what he does around the place. Best advice is to let the world know you as a person and not be defined solely on the stuff ur involved with. Takes a Big man to authorize this thread, seriously grats.

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

Good advice

cruxSpoon · Thu, 23rd-Feb-2012, 9:45 AM

I believe the purpose of this thread has been met. The majority of "criticisms" have been covered in the first 3 pages, with the rest being just reiterations and shouting match btwn pro and anti benji's (hehe that sounds kinda funny). Would it be about time to lock this thread or have someone sum it up then lock it?

I dont think theres a need for more people to say "hey Benji change is needed" as there is already an overwhelming agreement from the community. If you read this Benji I wish you the best of luck in molding yourself into the caster you have the potential to be.

TLDR: Nothing new being added to thread, time for lock.

Quick Comments

	TAEdarus:	Agreed
	crAzerk:	what I thought 3 pages ago
	nirvAnA:	Agreed, and closed
	TABiggun:	I don't know if its already been said but definately what I think is the best advice for any caster is to just watch a TON of replays and play a TON of starcraft 2. The more knowledge you have about sc2 the better.