[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by TADivinity

Just wondering...You guys said that you took into account that he was a nice guy and said sorry etc when you decided on his punishment.
But now you know that he lied to all our faces (again), and let you continue to make posts in this thread, partly based on that.

Does this change anything?

Notably, I dont care what FaDe does - thats up to them. Just wondering if the punishment would have been worse if he was a no-name to you??

Probably not specifically aimed at me, but I'll give my side anyway especially after your rep comment. Obviously I would have preferred if he had told us, so we didn't go on defending him when it turns out we shouldn't have been. That said, it doesn't change how I feel about him as a person. Sure he hacked in a game and then tried to cover his ass, but so what?

I can honestly say most people I know would do the same thing. It's human nature to try to minimise damage, and there are very very few people who wouldn't lie to do it.

In response to your rep comment, as far as I am concerned I was in no way rude to anyone with the exception of Timber, but I claim that was justified seeing as how he accused me of maphacking purely based on the fact I am friends with EvetS. Everything else was basically saying, you can't say he maphacked the whole time unless you post proof. Proof has been given, and we've stopped defending.

~Edit: the so what part is in reference to covering his ass, not hacking.

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by TADivinity

Just wondering...You guys said that you took into account that he was a nice guy and said sorry etc when you decided on his punishment.
But now you know that he lied to all our faces (again), and let you continue to make posts in this thread, partly based on that.

Does this change anything?

Pretty sure whatever you said has already been addressed.
Before that, what does the bolded text refer to? The fact that he has maphacked more than once? If that's the case, somewhere in the thread it was already mentioned that yes, this was accounted for. (Can't seem to find it atm)


And for:

Originally Posted by TADivinity

Just wondering if the punishment would have been worse if he was a no-name to you??

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

And our decision was biased to the extent of him previously having a clean / good track record NOT because some of us are friends with him, that is just stupid and insulting to us at the same time. It is similar to how in court cases the jury reviews your history to see if you have been a "outstanding member of the community" or a "low life scumbag" before they deliver their verdict.

And if people missed the important posts:

SC2SEA's Official Statements (via nirvAnA)
First statement here, and next statement here,
Meatex, Clan leader of FaDe's statement:
Here

Please read these before posting if you wanted the 'official statements of the site, of FaDe'. As said, it's going in circles now. The sentence has been dealt, corrective measures have begun on FaDe's end, further posts about it do NOT really help or affect much besides create more negativity.

Move on, check out proTimbeR's accusation of a certain Ghost of hacking!

[TADivinity]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

Pretty sure whatever you said has already been addressed.
Before that, what does the bolded text refer to? The fact that he has maphacked more than once? If that's the case, somewhere in the thread it was already mentioned that yes, this was accounted for. (Can't seem to find it atm)

Nono, the fact that he lied in this thread twice - First denying it, and then secondly coming out with a statement (Which no doubt turned heads and some sympathy) which was also just lies.


And in regards to Nirvana's point on 'outstanding member of the community versus low life scumbag'

….That has been said in context, almost with the idea that he hasn't hacked for long. That’s silly – JazBas (Although he can't prove it) believes he has been hacking for a fair amount of time, and Riichard surely gives JazBas' beliefs some credibility.

With this retrospective point…can you really say EvetS has indeed been 'a good member of society'?? (Which seems to have swayed the result of his punishment?)

Quick Comments

	x5.Revenant:	A lot of other people(like Lost, myself, Rossi,etc) has mentioned about him lying so much before confessing it, but the admins seem to ignore this fact and didn't punish him for this course of action that he did.
	mGMUSE:

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by TADivinity

Nono, the fact that he lied in this thread twice - First denying it, and then secondly coming out with a statement (Which no doubt turned heads and some sympathy) which was also just lies.


And in regards to Nirvana's point on 'outstanding member of the community versus low life scumbag'

….That has been said in context, almost with the idea that he hasn't hacked for long. That’s silly – JazBas (Although he can't prove it) believes he has been hacking for a fair amount of time, and Riichard surely gives JazBas' beliefs some credibility.

With this retrospective point…can you really say EvetS has indeed been 'a good member of society'?? (Which seems to have swayed the result of his punishment?)

:/ :/ Since my rep post was truncated. I'll state it here again:

A lot of people like Lost, myself, Rossi etc has been mentioning about the course of action he took(denying, lying about it) before confessing that he was a hacker. Shouldn't it be good if there was some form of warning or punishment given to him taking this course of action? The purpose of this would serve a purpose of letting other hackers know that if you're being accused and you're guilty to admit it, instead of deceive people around you that you didn't do it, before finally admitting it.

I'm bringing this up, not to add oil to the fire, but because the admins may not have addressed this issue, or overlooked it. (Or maybe I've skipped a few posts; If that's the case do ignore this post.)

Edit: I just read through the entire thread again.

Now that Riichard has solid proof that EvetS has hacked more than what he admitted, I seriously think he deserves more than that. This essentially means that he lied/denied about hacking, confessed to hacking in ONE game, and in the end it was found out by Riichard that his confession is full of lies again. I'm sorry to be that harsh, but how the heck can we still ever trust a guy that lies over and over again?

I even asked him repeatedly if it was his honest words that he only hacked for one game over a series of posts, and he claimed that was the truth and some people, well at least I did, trusted his words. So hey,What the F@#$ dude? You just F@#$ed me silly.

Edit 2: This guy was given a chance to fess up. He blew the shyt out of it. I don't even know what to say anymore.

Quick Comments

	mGMUSE:
	Neoneoz:
	neKo:	Well said
	TragicHero:
	AxSGRiM:
	Shieldz:
	TAEdarus:

[FaDeGofire]

ok i just saw the riichard replay. that's clear proof of hacking. I am really disappointed in evets. he has lied directly to my face twice already. I was willing to stand up for him even at the cost of losing the community's respect but now i don't trust him anymore. I hope fade kicks him out. sorry for doubting muse and jazbas replays.

Quick Comments

	mGMUSE:
	Peleus:
	NvRossi:
	neKo:
	AxSGRiM:
	TAEdarus:

[mGMUSE]

Originally Posted by FaDeGofire

ok i just saw the riichard replay. that's clear proof of hacking. I am really disappointed in evets. he has lied directly to my face twice already. I was willing to stand up for him even at the cost of losing the community's respect but now i don't trust him anymore. I hope fade kicks him out. sorry for doubting muse and jazbas replays.

thank you.

i would just like to ask what has he done for the community specifically? just because he's an active GM(undeservingly so) on this site doesn't mean contribution, am i right?

Quick Comments

	AxSGRiM:
	Shieldz:
	TAEdarus:

[ToRSpartaz]

I love going off topic:

"Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" - True words of Simon ^^

Edit: Yes it is a serious thread, but what you dont seem to grasp is the gravity of the situation we are. What this thread is doing isn't contributing to the community. Do not questions my motives, yes I am a leader I understand tge responsibility of that. But as you can clearly see this thread has pitted people against each other, essentially changing perceptions of each other which in some circumstances is considerably wrong.

Do you honestly think that a bit of humour actually affects the light of the discussion. The answer is no not in the slightest. Think before you negatively rep and think of the overall situation we are in -.-....

Seriously consider the direction of this conversation what effects it is having on Sc2sea and the SEA community. Just on ladder I have heard about this soo many times, I for one am leaving this in the hands of Nirvana and the mods. They have the best interests of the community at heart, I trust them to do what is best for SEA. So don't turn this into a witch hunt... Do it discretely at your own disgrestion (effed the speelling xD).

Don't take what I say lightly... Dont let all the many hours of fantastic work go to waste in building this incredibly community!! Mods this is on you guys. We trust you to make the best decisions

Quick Comments

	TADivinity:	This is a serious thread. Youre a leader, not a retard
	neKo:	What are you doing
	Bash:	Completely unrelated, going off topic had nothing to do with your "Explanation", it was silly.
	FaDeBadger:	Pointless on so many levels
	Shieldz:	stupid useless waste of time
	syfChadMann:
	TAEdarus:	I understand what you're TRYING to say, but I think you missed the point...

[Rage]

I don't think "having a clean record" should be a mitigating factor in the slightest.

In this case

-the multiple evidence replays of Evets hacking more than once
-lying about hacking at all initially
-lying AGAIN and saying he only did it once

given the above, to me, the only thing "had a clean record" means is "hadn't been caught until now".

And that makes it a pretty flimsy reason to do anything.

Quick Comments

TAEdarus:

[Ruscour]

Originally Posted by Rage

I don't think "having a clean record" should be a mitigating factor in the slightest.

In this case

-the multiple evidence replays of Evets hacking more than once
-lying about hacking at all initially
-lying AGAIN and saying he only did it once

given the above, to me, the only thing "had a clean record" means is "hadn't been caught until now".

And that makes it a pretty flimsy reason to do anything.

"Once" doesn't necessarily mean one game, it could just mean one session. I haven't been following this stuff too closely to see if it was over multiple days or anything but multiple replays can still justify "once".

We all have our moments of weakness. He was punished by his team and lost a ton of respect by the community. His apology had sincerity...it is hard to earn people's respect back but I can't see why he doesn't deserve a chance to do that.

SlayerSDragon was a proven maphacker, for crying out loud. People make mistakes and people change.

Quick Comments

	ToRSpartaz:	Well said man, true points. I want this thread buried...
	TAScarecrow:	"it was just this one ladder game" evetS
	TAEdgE:	^
	mGGDaedalus:	If you gonna post at least read the thread properly
	Nemo:	Yes, he deserves a second chance !
	TAEdarus:	"it was just this one ladder game" evetS
	Zealo:	good sentiment, normally i'd say read the thread before posting but the thread is 100 pages of shit at this point
	nGenLight:	Lol he was pretty sincere, lying pretty sincerely.
	sRFullstop:

[TAXanT]

Originally Posted by Ruscour

We all have our moments of weakness. He was punished by his team and lost a ton of respect by the community. His apology had sincerity...it is hard to earn people's respect back but I can't see why he doesn't deserve a chance to do that.

My thoughts as well

Edit: I understand people are disappointed with him for hacking, lying, etc and they have every right to be but I don't know what other punishment can be handed out other than getting booted out of FaDe/SC2SEA community. Trust is an important thing and hes broken it, more than once too. From what I've heard he was held in a rather high regard, at least within FaDe and his reputation has been destroyed now. In a way the easy option would be for him to become in-active on these forums but I hope that isn't the case. If he really wants to make up for his wrong-doings he'll hang around, start from the ground-up again and roll with the punches which will no doubt be thrown his way and hope that people give him the chance.

I don't know EvetS at all im completely un-biased in all this, just trying to find any positive direction this can be moved in.

[TragicHero]

Originally Posted by Ruscour

We all have our moments of weakness. He was punished by his team and lost a ton of respect by the community. His apology had sincerity...it is hard to earn people's respect back but I can't see why he doesn't deserve a chance to do that.

Sorry I had to reply you on this. From a neutral point of view, his apology can NOT be sincere since he lied about it. His apology clearly stated that he says sorry for hacking only ONCE against Timber, not any other time (EVER). How can his apology be sincere if he lied about it?

Quick Comments

	Rage:	Yes! I don't know how people can't see this.
	TAEdarus:	Bang on the mark.

[Rage]

Originally Posted by Ruscour

"Once" doesn't necessarily mean one game, it could just mean one session. I haven't been following this stuff too closely to see if it was over multiple days or anything but multiple replays can still justify "once".

We all have our moments of weakness. He was punished by his team and lost a ton of respect by the community. His apology had sincerity...it is hard to earn people's respect back but I can't see why he doesn't deserve a chance to do that.

SlayerSDragon was a proven maphacker, for crying out loud. People make mistakes and people change.

He specifically mentioned it was only one game against TimbeR

[AxSGRiM]

Originally Posted by Rage

He specifically mentioned it was only one game against TimbeR

But now we have riichard's replay

[RicocheT]

Originally Posted by nRvGRiM

But now we have riichard's replay

That's the disappointing thing about it.
Guys like GoFire, Badger and myself stuck out our necks for him in front of the sc2sea community.
It's not an easy thing to do, but we did it because he is (or was, I don't know FaDe's ruling on him yet) a fellow clannie, and I'm sure others would do the same.
I don't regret sticking my neck out for him. Would do the same for any other FaDe player or friend accused of hacking.
The disappointing thing is that he took us for granted. We stood by him and trusted his words in which he said 'I only mh'ed once.'
I myself am still willing to give him another chance. We all make mistakes, which is what makes us human. But in light of recent events, I would also approve a harsher penalty.

Anyway I'm done with this thread.
We asked for facts and we got them, and the full story has been seen now.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	TAriiChard:	Props on FaDe for backing him up.
	nGenLight:	Your best friend always sticking up for you... even when I know you
	Fadey:

[VB_WhiplashJC]

Consider what would happen if we didn't have this conversation. I don't know if you've played a game before that dissolved into cheaters at all levels after you'd put effort into improving at it and building a community, but it ******* sucks.

Quick Comments

	ToRSpartaz:	My point exactly brother, people cant seem to see this ideal... Clearly.. Well put my friend
	Welshy:

[Nemo]

Please stop the lynching now. Yes, he certainly lied. I was quite certain Nirvana and other organizers knew it too.

Yes, what he did is bad. But let keep perspectives about it. He didn't kill anyone nor raped any children. He's a nice kid, helped people of the community, doesn't treat people badly, never was racist with anybody.

Justice is no vengeance or lynching. It aims at giving a message to everyone that if you're behaving badly you will face harsh consequences but it also aim at reintegrating people in the society and community. Put yourself in his situation, don't think that it can't happen to you. We all have made mistakes in our lives. We would want a second chance if (and when) it happens to us.

For his friends, remember why he was your friend in the first place and ask yourself if what he did to you is forgivable or not. Remember real friends are those who still love you when you're down and don't howl with others.

I think that the punishment decided by his clan and Organisers is enough, even considering he hacked more than once.
I think his clan should accept his weakness and doesn't expel him.

If everyone want to lynch him, lynch me with him. I don't find this right.

Quick Comments

	nard:	thank u for the human decency
	mGGDaedalus:
	xGKingdelete:
	nirvAnA:	nemo is a hero!!!!!!
	EveJeonSa:	You are wise :) ♥
	Honeybadger:

[nirvAnA]

SC2SEA's Official Stance on Map Hackers

1. Banned for all SC2SEA tournaments for a period of 6 months.
2. Community work aka "good behavior" introduces the possibility of "parole" which will reduce the sentence by 1-3 months.
3. They will still be allowed to participate in the forums as that will be necessary for their community work.
4. Repeat offenders caught will be banned for life from the site completely, no exceptions.
5. Should they try to circumvent the ban in anyway or join our tournaments earlier (smurfing), they will be banned for life.

It is important to note that not everyone caught map hacking will necessarily change. Under this system those unrepentant will be fully punished but "reforming" players aware of their mistake who have changed their attitude will not be subjected to the same sentence that the unrepentant offenders receive.

Players who are unrepentant will face the stiffer sentence of 6 months, whereas players who have changed their attitudes and reformed themselves will be given the opportunity to be reintegrated in the community earlier but only after proving the change of their attitude through community work. This is similar to the "good behavior" system that reduces jail sentences in prisons.

Like Nemo says:

"Justice is no vengeance or lynching. It aims at giving a message to everyone that if you're behaving badly you will face harsh consequences but it also aim at reintegrating people in the society and community. Put yourself in his situation, don't think that it can't happen to you. We all have made mistakes in our lives. We would want a second chance if (and when) it happens to us."

Community work will be defined for now as:

• Strategy articles (GM and above)
• Free Coaching for the community (Masters and above)
• Replay Analysis in our Replay Feedback thread
• Contributive / helpful posts on SC2SEA

The 1-3 month reduction of sentence will depend on the individuals performance in the above.

EvetS' ban starts today: 3rd January and will be lifted on the 3rd of July
Keep in mind EvetS never used this in competitions, I believe all he wanted was the respect from having a nice ladder record.

Meany's ban starts today: 3rd January and will be lifted on the 3rd of July
There have been enough analysis from Jazbas, SPR, Nemo, myself and many various other people to conclude that he indeed was hacking.

---

Moved all the EvetS drama here so we can continue catching the other hackers in the other thread. Nemo makes a very mature post which I moved just below and I hope everyone can read that first with an open mind before picking up their pitch forks. We hate hackers, we are aware how much it hurts the scene. Thats why there was even this thread made in the first place and hacking whatever the reasons is inexcusable. But it doesn't mean we should be so quick to crucify a former respected member of this community and offer him no chance of redemption.

The problem now seems to be the "punishment" given, which some find to be too lenient and not setting a proper precedence whereas others find it adequate and are aware the "true punishment" has been the outting, the shame, loss of friends and complete destruction of his reputation which he has build over the last year. These people believe in rehabilitation, which by the way won't be an easy road - and expect EvetS to do a decent amount of community work to begin to atone for what he did.

I am one of those people and I believe in second chances, certain members of this forum who have made mistakes before wouldn't even be here today if I didn't. I also believe Sensei was given a chance by TA after map hacking in Starcraft 1, and is a good example of how someone who has recognised his mistake can change for the better to become a positive, contributive member of the community. Please keep that in mind.

Meanwhile, the sc2sea admins will be having a discussion bearing in mind the new evidence that has surfaced and the OP will be updated later.

[Rockstar]

In light of all evidence in this thread, letting him compete in any tournaments again is going to cause dramas. I personally would refuse to play him at all.

[TAEdarus]

I honestly don't know what would truly be fair in this situation.

Everyone has already laid out the situation so I won't do it again, however, given the evidence, lying and lying and lying (recurring)... I don't feel right about the situation as it is.

Ultimately FaDe / SC2SEA Admin's decision when it comes to both parties respectively, but this just does not sit right with me.


I WOULD like to clarify, too, that nobody has directly attacked, berated or abused EvetS (in this thread (that i'm aware of)) so please do not take these posts as a lash out at him.
We're discussing the issue as it unfolded and the repercussions of the outcome as well as incident.

This is OUR community. We ALL deserve our opinion and the right to voice them. Please do NOT take anything said by ANYONE here as a personal attack on the man.

I'm sorry he's got sh1t going on in life, i've been there recently myself. Its disappointing he didn't handle these issues in a more private / responsible way, but I DO wish him the best in sorting them out.

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by TAEdarus

I WOULD like to clarify, too, that nobody has directly attacked, berated or abused EvetS (in this thread (that i'm aware of))

Do you seriously mean this?




Just some samples of verbal abuse:

it affects the entire community, so how about you let us collectively set a precedent for how to best deal with the scum of the earth, thanks.

I honestly believe that the same punishment should apply here to FaDeNooB, which includes a permanent ban from future SEA tournaments.

I don't agree with many other things you said in your post Edarus, but ok I'm lazy to quote and elaborate further. Goodnight