[TAEdgE]

I like both above posts but can't rep.
edit: although I don't agree with the clan keeping him, I can see why they would.

[Rage]

Originally Posted by Ruscour

"Once" doesn't necessarily mean one game, it could just mean one session. I haven't been following this stuff too closely to see if it was over multiple days or anything but multiple replays can still justify "once".

We all have our moments of weakness. He was punished by his team and lost a ton of respect by the community. His apology had sincerity...it is hard to earn people's respect back but I can't see why he doesn't deserve a chance to do that.

SlayerSDragon was a proven maphacker, for crying out loud. People make mistakes and people change.

He specifically mentioned it was only one game against TimbeR

[AxSGRiM]

Originally Posted by Rage

He specifically mentioned it was only one game against TimbeR

But now we have riichard's replay

[RicocheT]

Originally Posted by nRvGRiM

But now we have riichard's replay

That's the disappointing thing about it.
Guys like GoFire, Badger and myself stuck out our necks for him in front of the sc2sea community.
It's not an easy thing to do, but we did it because he is (or was, I don't know FaDe's ruling on him yet) a fellow clannie, and I'm sure others would do the same.
I don't regret sticking my neck out for him. Would do the same for any other FaDe player or friend accused of hacking.
The disappointing thing is that he took us for granted. We stood by him and trusted his words in which he said 'I only mh'ed once.'
I myself am still willing to give him another chance. We all make mistakes, which is what makes us human. But in light of recent events, I would also approve a harsher penalty.

Anyway I'm done with this thread.
We asked for facts and we got them, and the full story has been seen now.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	TAriiChard:	Props on FaDe for backing him up.
	nGenLight:	Your best friend always sticking up for you... even when I know you
	Fadey:

[Rockstar]

In light of all evidence in this thread, letting him compete in any tournaments again is going to cause dramas. I personally would refuse to play him at all.

[TAEdarus]

I honestly don't know what would truly be fair in this situation.

Everyone has already laid out the situation so I won't do it again, however, given the evidence, lying and lying and lying (recurring)... I don't feel right about the situation as it is.

Ultimately FaDe / SC2SEA Admin's decision when it comes to both parties respectively, but this just does not sit right with me.


I WOULD like to clarify, too, that nobody has directly attacked, berated or abused EvetS (in this thread (that i'm aware of)) so please do not take these posts as a lash out at him.
We're discussing the issue as it unfolded and the repercussions of the outcome as well as incident.

This is OUR community. We ALL deserve our opinion and the right to voice them. Please do NOT take anything said by ANYONE here as a personal attack on the man.

I'm sorry he's got sh1t going on in life, i've been there recently myself. Its disappointing he didn't handle these issues in a more private / responsible way, but I DO wish him the best in sorting them out.

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by TAEdarus

I WOULD like to clarify, too, that nobody has directly attacked, berated or abused EvetS (in this thread (that i'm aware of))

Do you seriously mean this?




Just some samples of verbal abuse:

it affects the entire community, so how about you let us collectively set a precedent for how to best deal with the scum of the earth, thanks.

I honestly believe that the same punishment should apply here to FaDeNooB, which includes a permanent ban from future SEA tournaments.

I don't agree with many other things you said in your post Edarus, but ok I'm lazy to quote and elaborate further. Goodnight

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

Do you seriously mean this?




Just some samples of verbal abuse:





I don't agree with many other things you said in your post Edarus, but ok I'm lazy to quote and elaborate further. Goodnight

I believe the case about EvetS will die down the moment the proper punishment is given to him, not just for his constant wrongdoings, but also to set an example for the hackers out there.

[nGenLight]

I think most everyone is aware of the gravity of the punishment that is getting classified as a maphacker - that is the harshest punishment that will follow him wherever he goes.

My only problem I have is the fact that a serious offense like maphacking is only formally punished by a 3 months ban from the biggest SEA community. In comparison - Blizzard simply closed accounts, Bored Aussie has an at least 12 month period before the subject could even appeal for an unban. Did TA accept Sensei 3 months after his crime? Or did it take a good x years. A 3 months ban to a maphacker (an obvious lying one aswell) is very dangerous precedence.

I'm calling for at least a 6 months to 12 months ban. He can get his second chance then. Also adding to the fact that now he is a proven liar (shady character - nice outside, dodgey secrets) - This is not the type of person nor the type of offense you want to show leniency towards - He didn't argue with an admin, he didn't troll like a Zanooku, what he did was an direct crime towards competitive gaming, had multiple chances to fess up and continued to lie - Why would you show leniency to someone like that? There are situations and issues we can be lenient about - I don't think we should show the rest of the world and people contemplating maphacking that this is something we would be in anyways lenient towards.

Quick Comments

	TAScarecrow:	agreed and afaik he only copped 2 months
	asdfSchnitzel:
	breadfan:	I like the idea of having the ban time set in stone
	syfPhoenix:
	TragicHero:

[FvRelimzkE]

As long as he realises it was stupid shit and doesn't do it again, I have no problem with it. I was a known hacker in Counter-Strike: Source in 2008 until I was caught, and then started again fresh and fought my way back into the competitive scene with proper play. Hopefully EvetS can do the same. I trust that he didn't hack in tournaments anyway, and ladder is mostly just all-in rubbish.

As Light mentioned, the gravity of being a known maphacker will severely affect is reputation for a long, long while so I don't have a problem with giving him a second chance.

Quick Comments

asdfSchnitzel:

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by elimzke

As long as he realises it was stupid shit and doesn't do it again, I have no problem with it. I was a known hacker in Counter-Strike: Source in 2008 until I was caught, and then started again fresh and fought my way back into the competitive scene with proper play. Hopefully EvetS can do the same. I trust that he didn't hack in tournaments anyway, and ladder is mostly just all-in rubbish.

As Light mentioned, the gravity of being a known maphacker will severely affect is reputation for a long, long while so I don't have a problem with giving him a second chance.

Allegedly he hacked vs JazBas in a Community Open, was bought up long ago by JazBas but dismissed back then. Don't know if that was proven or not.

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

I think most everyone is aware of the gravity of the punishment that is getting classified as a maphacker - that is the harshest punishment that will follow him wherever he goes.

My only problem I have is the fact that a serious offense like maphacking is only formally punished by a 3 months ban from the biggest SEA community. In comparison - Blizzard simply closed accounts, Bored Aussie has an at least 12 month period before the subject could even appeal for an unban. Did TA accept Sensei 3 months after his crime? Or did it take a good x years. A 3 months ban to a maphacker (an obvious lying one aswell) is very dangerous precedence.

I'm calling for at least a 6 months to 12 months ban. He can get his second chance then. Also adding to the fact that now he is a proven liar (shady character - nice outside, dodgey secrets) - This is not the type of person nor the type of offense you want to show leniency towards - He didn't argue with an admin, he didn't troll like a Zanooku, what he did was an direct crime towards competitive gaming, had multiple chances to fess up and continued to lie - Why would you show leniency to someone like that? There are situations and issues we can be lenient about - I don't think we should show the rest of the world and people contemplating maphacking that this is something we would be in anyways lenient towards.

Totally agree there. Would he had admitted to his multiple maphacking instances, instead of lying about just maphacking ONCE, a three month ban would have sounded reasonable. But leaving it any less than a long term ban seems totally unjustifiable, given that he went through a series of atrocious actions to dealing with this issue.

Originally Posted by elimzke

As long as he realises it was stupid shit and doesn't do it again, I have no problem with it. I was a known hacker in Counter-Strike: Source in 2008 until I was caught, and then started again fresh and fought my way back into the competitive scene with proper play. Hopefully EvetS can do the same. I trust that he didn't hack in tournaments anyway, and ladder is mostly just all-in rubbish.

As Light mentioned, the gravity of being a known maphacker will severely affect is reputation for a long, long while so I don't have a problem with giving him a second chance.

He's already told the community that "he realized it was stupid shit" to hack with his confession post. However, in his "I realized what I was doing was stupid shit and I admit it"(confession) post, he lied over and over again. If the situation is just left hanging, it's just an indicator for future hackers to say "Hey guys! Hack your hearts out! If you're ever caught and you have no bad records on you, feel free to run away scot-free and defend yourself and lie to everyone in the community until you're eventually pinned to the corner with concrete evidence!".

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

[DeekZ]

Damn this thing is crazy, lots of difference in opinions.

I think the best cause of action would just be to ban him for a few months from the site, and then leave it alone. The stigma he's going to carry around for the rest of his days if he continues playing under that ID is going to suck enough as it is, and with all eyes on him now he most likely won't be hacking any time soon..

Not to mention whatever punishment is handed down by his clan, whether that be removal or something else. It sucks this whole thing had to happen and that he felt like he had to lie about it but certainly everyone can understand why he would lie about it.. considering the backlash we're seeing now that we know for sure.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[Cordance]

Originally Posted by Revenant

He's already told the community that "he realized it was stupid shit" to hack with his confession post. However, in his "I realized what I was doing was stupid shit and I admit it"(confession) post, he lied over and over again. If the situation is just left hanging, it's just an indicator for future hackers to say "Hey guys! Hack your hearts out! If you're ever caught and you have no bad records on you, feel free to run away scot-free and defend yourself and lie to everyone in the community until you're eventually pinned to the corner with concrete evidence!".

You know I kind of like the idea of hackers only getting exposed when you have evidence ... I mean I like mob justice as much as the next guy (in the mob) but the amount of hacking and smurfing accusations that get thrown around I would rather the precedent be set that we need to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. The thought of someone getting lucky by sending mutas around the map so they dont get spotted and running into a drop ship and suddenly get cast out of the community should be something to give you pause.

Quick Comments

	nGenLight:	This post reeks of maphacker... JOKES!
	nirvAnA:

[Nemo]

Well, I hate what I'm going to do because I will revive a story that is now "closed". But I guess you can't get away with bad behavior without being punished for it forever.

I wanted to just show it to Nirvana and Edge so they can pass the information to the main character of this story but Nirvana absolutly wanted me to post it openly.

I have fumed a lot about the lynching of Evets because we have a precedent when someone blatantly cheated, never admitted and got away with it because he had powerful friends. I hate it when justice applies to you differently whether you have powerful allies or not so I will refresh some memories about the Meany case:
http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php...ighlight=Meany

The videos : http://fr.justin.tv/nemoulysses/videos

At that time, Cosmos and I were utterly surprised that everybody did not see the obvious. Cosmos, by the way, never came back here, really disappointed by the way things went.

So I don't want any harm done to Meany, he got away with it, good for him. But I really would like to remind people of the fact that men justice must be very careful with punishment because it can carry its own injustice.

Being too harsh with Evets would be unfair considering that other cheaters who never admitted anything simply get away with it. And it was only 6 month ago. Poor Sensei who admitted too still hear for his own deeds 5 years after ... What message do we send ? Don't admit, that's far better for you ?

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:	Exactly.
	FaDeBadger:	Wise words, was thinking of that case myself but couldn't find it
	nirvAnA:	The double standards in this thread and that one is eye opening
	TAScarecrow:	hacker gets away with it so we must be nice to evetS?
	sRFullstop:
	EveMassacrisM:	Yep. MeaNy clearly was hacking yet no punishment was given out.

[nirvAnA]

Summary of meany thread: (full thread)

• Cosmos genuinely felt Meany was hacking, made a proper post with analysis based on incriminating evidence to warn the community but instead got shot down and attacked for making accusations. The comments even pressured Cosmos to end up apologizing!!
• Nemo got attacked too for analysing the games and bringing suspicious plays to attention and was even accused of being cosmo's smurf
• That is really ironic to see if you compare this thread to meanys thread, because of the influence of the people defending meany.
• Alot of posts supporting the idea he map hacked by Zergirl, Dox, MassacrisM ended up being ignored.
• Disappointed at what happened after trying to alert the community, comos left SC2SEA and never returned.
• Meany got away scot free.

Replay:

http://terranimba.com/replay/3OJk3YzUUOVj2Z

MUST WATCH Vods of the blatant hacking from the replay:

http://www.justin.tv/nemoulysses/b/289420237
http://www.justin.tv/nemoulysses/b/289421746

Revenant, muse, riichard and all those involved in the analysis of replays in this thread please watch this and tell me your conclusion, viewing it with the same level of objectivity as EvetS games. How different it is from evets other "blatant hacking" replays?

This was actually a big mistake on my part, as I was busy with a project at that time and did not watch the replay/vods back then to make a formal SC2SEA decision. I just wrote a disclaimer in the OP based on the comments I was seeing to keep things in the thread civil.

Dox felt it was incriminating, as well as Timber, TALost, Zerggirl, MassacrisM, V_enDetta and the SPR team led by Master, who felt it too suspicious rightly removed him from SPR. SPR is an awesome clan btw whom i love. They were however among the minority, with the majority of his friends supporting meany.

There was also surprisingly absolutely ZERO pressure then to make a formal community decision about the matter.

As such a conclusion was never reached, meany got away scot free and the thread was closed by Baka as things were getting out of hand. (There was hardly any drama on sc2sea at that time)

I think the lesson to learn from this is how not to let the certain vocal members alter your decision. Meany had the support of friends and ended up getting away scot free.

His friends were basically doing what FaDe was doing in this thread. Supporting their mates like any good friend would do. Everyone has double standards when it comes to your friends as compared to a person you do not know. Had evets being from another big clan instead of FaDe, I feel yes he will be condemned by all, but this thread and suggestions here will have turned up being very different. Look what happened to meany for instance, he got away SCOT FREE!!! And it is not the fault of his friends either its just human nature to stick up for your mates.

Its just that meany had ALOT of credible friends like Jazbas (whos totally awesome btw who goes out on a limb to support his buddy), Zergtastic (BSGadmin) and some of TA, and that made it look like there "wasn't enough evidence" and cosmos was seen as a "rager / baseless acuser" when that couldn't be further from the truth.

EvetS was a by far much more contributive member, he even came out to admit his hacking rather then deny it like meany - what is he rewarded with? A life ban instead of getting away scot free? He now basically faces a SC2 death sentence, which even I now feel pressured to give because of some very vocal comments from influential members in this thead but I still don't believe is the right thing to do as it offers no redemption, which is the road evets has started on by choosing to admit his hacking instead of denying it.

As nemo has said the message now being sent is if you're caught deny it at all costs and you get away scot free. Rather than what the message should be - When suspected admit it, do your time and after doing community work slowly get rehabilitated into the community, it is not the end of SC2 for you if you are able to admit your mistake.

[Rage]

I don't think a more significant ban is warranted. 3months is more than satisfactory and I agree that any more of a ban would likely simply result in leaving the community for good, which then makes the punishment irrelevant.

I just want people to stop using his "confession" and his "clean record" as mitigating factors when they speak about him, because both were clearly lies - he had absolutely not only done it once, and his clean record was only due to not yet being caught - and not something to be admired.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	Whole heartedly agree long ban = leave community = irrelevant punishment
	Volition:	The punishment is satisfactory. So many people are just quoting "the floodgates will open" re cheaters. Good to see someone who is level headed

[NvRossi]

I know for sure that meany admitted to stream cheating and not to map hacking to a friend. 100% just as bad though

Quick Comments

TATheMoonStar:

Correct, MeaNy was not hacking

[Sanctify]

Oh now we wouldn't want that...I think this community would really miss the presence of a liar and hacker if they were to leave. Lets be lenient so they can come back and **** with us some more, and show other hackers that we like having them here.

Quick Comments

FaDeBadger:

just go away already

[Volition]

I agree with Nirvanas post - it is funny how some members are extremely vocal in this thread about cheaters but downplay it and deny it (despite the evidence) in the old thread. Sorta interesting how the "cheaters are the scum of the earth and should be hanged" is in this thread, but they are 100% sure Meany did not cheated in the other game, and ignore posts much better than those made by themselves in this thread.

Is the moral of the story that if you are going to cheat, you better have high friends in the sc2sea community??

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	TAEdgE:	i dont like your posts