[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Haha, System. Don't worry about it. Professional programmer, so it's my job to work out all those annoying corner cases.

Originally Posted by Maynarde

Shift + Z is the hotkey, champ. You won't build zerglings unless you have your hatch selected.

That wasn't what I was saying. If you use V as the hotkey (the key you press for injects) it is also used in other areas of the game, which would stuff up the sync with your injects.

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

Sorry mate, misunderstanding

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Maynarde

Shift + Z is the hotkey, champ. You won't build zerglings unless you have your hatch selected.

he was talking about system's suggestion of detecting the keystrokes for an inject

[Kalikah]

Well, give the guys some points for intent - they're massive SC2 fans, and thought they'd try and help others out who struggle. . . I'm sure they didn't mean it as a cheating tool at all, although I can see how it could be considered one. But having some extra help while practicing isn't cheating as long as when you're competing/playing head to head everyone's got a clean slate? Just my 2c.

Quick Comments

Bugalugs McScruffin:

[iMSystem]

Originally Posted by Bugalugs McScruffin

Haha, System. Don't worry about it. Professional programmer, so it's my job to work out all those annoying corner cases.

I'm am about to head into Programming 3 next year for my Uni.
Excited because I love programming, and sitting around for hours solving problems.

So good..
This year I had to create a Contact Manager program, wasn't that flash but still sick fun ^_^

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by Maynarde

It's a glorified metronome man, people have used them in the past to practice timings and macro in games. It's just a digital one.

Yeah whilst that might be true, I'd honestly probably state my case to the admins that it's cheating if some guy was sitting at a lan tournament with a metronome that clicked loudly every time he needed to lava inject :P.

I get that no one would use them in that scenario, and its just for practice, but the thing is ladder to some people isn't 'just for practice', it's what they play for. Hell playing with a maphack against people can be a legitimate learning technique (I'm being serious here, i used to play broodwar buddies all the time and we'd both share vision and do our builds, gives you an amazing sense of timings that happen within the game, you're much more concentrated when playing than watching a replay). But something tells me if I do that on ladder, although just for practice purposes, people wouldn't be all that thrilled about it.

I guess I'm just playing devils advocate here more for the sake of discussion, as I think it would be a great learning technique, but, in my view, it's still definitely considered a form of cheating that if someone was using it in a game against me and it was a game i cared about winning or losing, I wouldn't be happy with them.

Quick Comments

Kalikah:

[Maynarde]

I'd complain about someone using this tool at a LAN for sure lol. I'm glad it's being discussed with level heads (sc2sea ) the designer of this tool promoted it on TL with his first ever post and is gettin flamed somethin awful T_T

[crAzerk]

@Maynarde
Bug was referring to System's post , hence he said V
EDIT: (typed this before reading page 2 woops)

Anyway yea the limitations are fairly clear in that it screws up once you have more than one hatch or u're a second slow (snowballing), but as the OP says this is meant for lower level players who need to develop this larva sense so.. It's still good I suppose.

Personally I rely abit on the sound when larva pops from my hatchery yea I play w fairly loud game sounds+ headphone so I can hear such things clearly

[aLtMrFool]

Sometimes I can't get the subtle difference between programmer and programer.. Esp when people in most other forums don't make a space between pro and gamer..

[crAzerk]

? 'programer' is a misspelling.

You meant you can't tell the difference between 'programmer' and 'progamer'?

[EveMassacrisM]

I personally think this kinda programme does not help you with your play at all. Timing of larvae inject should be trained till it becomes a habit. Over reliance on these things might do more harm than good.

Not to mention this is somewhat of a 3rd party programme, and if used on ladder it IS considered cheating. You could argue you wouldn't use it to play on ladder/tourneys and stuff but Blizzard, I don't think, would care.

I would think twice before touching this stuff.

[crAzerk]

@massacrism
Chillll bro !

Think about it for a sec, the program is not going to be of much help due to it going out of sync easily and once you have multiple hatcheries, etc.

But I agree with you in that it MAY do more harm than good - newbies or whoever that use this program will start to press ctrl+z on top of their V+clicks which will not only slow them up but mess them up when they eventually stop using this.

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

@massacrism
Chillll bro !

Think about it for a sec, the program is not going to be of much help due to it going out of sync easily and once you have multiple hatcheries, etc.

But I agree with you in that it MAY do more harm than good - newbies or whoever that use this program will start to press ctrl+z on top of their V+clicks which will not only slow them up but mess them up when they eventually stop using this.

Line up all your injects.

I was under the impression you just press CTRL Z once and it will just cycle down from xx time and repeat until you tell it to stop.

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

Your impression is correct

[crAzerk]

@zerggirl

Imagine you have 2 hatcheries to inject.
A typical GM-level player takes about 1 second to inject both. This already means your timer is 1 second off.
After a few more times the timer is so off that it will throw you off more than help you inject.

The only way to overcome this is to include 'Ctrl Z' which resets the timer somewhere in the rotation.

[Fourby]

I think Pinder has a good point.. Although it may be good for creating a habit etc etc, using it on ladder wouldn't be that fair, if it was to be used it should just be in customs.

Also what massacrism said.. It could create a reliance on the program rather than a habit if timing.

[Meatex]

If a pause was added in between loops to allow for time to inject it would be better
And I can tell you 100% that it will be a great tool for cheating if you have bad injects very early game
But if something is beeping telling you to inject and you know if you don't do it everything will get messed up but you are busy defending and counter attacking this kind of tool would do more harm than good in a real game. Its great for practice and once you are at the point where the tool isn't going to distract you from important tournament games or even ladder games - then you no longer need to use the tool

[TADivinity]

I havent read everything because im cbf, but this tool is OKAY in my opinion.

I used the same on my laptop with an interval timer when I was in lower levels.
The BEST thing I got out of it was realising how often you really have to be injecting!! That realisation is fantastic for newer players, and it definately got me to a decentish point with my injects today.

By the way, its 31 seconds. Trust me. 31 - given you wait a second or two for that first inject when youre queen pops - so that you can instantly inject each time.

Also, IMO it helps to have this on another computer to use one click on a laptop-clicker (i.e. doesnt move) to stop the clock, and hit the spacebar to restart. Quick and easy, no alt tabbing.

EDIT: Im going to add in that it IS possible for you to get into a habit of opening it etc before you play. Personally I stopped because one day I wanted to see how much I had picked up after having it ring in my ear for a week of consistent gaming or so.

If you find it is helpful and decide to use it, understand that it will do way more harm than good if you become addicted to using it, and quite frankly once you make a higher level (even SEA masters) it will actually just slow you down having to either take your hand off the keyboard or mouse to stop/start it - or having to alt/tab.

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

Excellent post, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head

[DeekZ]

This is cool, gonna give it a shot next time I'm playing zerg. Can you change the keybind to start/reset it? Shift-Z is what I use to quick mute skype which I practically am always using when I'm on Starcraft.

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

@zerggirl

Imagine you have 2 hatcheries to inject.
A typical GM-level player takes about 1 second to inject both. This already means your timer is 1 second off.
After a few more times the timer is so off that it will throw you off more than help you inject.

The only way to overcome this is to include 'Ctrl Z' which resets the timer somewhere in the rotation.

It would only throw the timer off if you are missing your main hatchery inject by a second, which shouldn't be happening? ;o

If it takes me 5 seconds to inject all my hatcheries, fine.. as long as i'm not missing the first hatch it doesn't screw up the timer.

[Highlander]

I want a 31s egg timer.

[lolwut]

would this be bannable or frowned upon if used in ladder 1v1 matches?