SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

YJY · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 3:22 AM

Admin Note: As you all know, Dox helped hold an extensive series of qualifiers http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...fic_Qualifiers for Australia on behalf of Witchdoc on the promise that Witchdoc would send the top two Australian players to the Philippines. Dox made them sign official contracts as well. Day 1 of the event is already over and although Rossi was sent, the next in line to go YoonYJ was not given a plane ticket. Every story has two sides and I certainty hope to hear Witchdoc's side in the comments, but these are the facts that I know are true after speaking to several people and can be seen in the screenshots below as well and hence have allowed YoonYJ to share his point of view.

Update: IPL has this to say about the matter "This is a terrible situation that we had no information about until when we read his post. We feel like our part in this has been misrepresented and wanted to clarify that our agreement with the PPSL included a schedule for payments which we were up to date on - PPSL was never waiting for money from us." They have rightfully distanced and disassociated themselves from AZK and handled this mess in the most perfect way they could, so big props to them

to the koreans: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/global/vie...cle_id=3565865

+ [Update from YJY 9/11/2011] +

+ [TLDR version from TL] +

My dear friends, supporters, managers, fellow gamers, e-sport lovers and acquaintances. Many of you I have already met, for those of you who I haven't, I am YoonYJ of the SEA, NA and KR servers. I am writing this to share with the gaming community the series of events that has led me to believe the unfair treatment I received from Gus "Witchdoc" Ledesma. Furthermore, I am writing in order to prevent these from occuring in e-sports again, as I who was once a skeptic believer of e-sports as an actual sport have now realised otherwise, and from the bottom of my heart believe that I am experiencing the birth of e-sports into this world; yes, I believe great times are ahead of us. The following text provides some factual documents that I have exchanged and received, and my view of what has happened. I would like to emphasise that the actual clan AZK consist of wonderful people; it was with the training of many of the Koreans involved in this clan (which are involved in clan lof in kr) that I was successful in qualifying to this tournament.

First and foremost, there has been many people that know Gus personally, and others that are directly involved with AZK that I have been speaking to. I would like to give my sincere thanks for your genuine help in working with me to convince Gus to obtain his part of the contract; I will not forget this. I will be keeping these friends anonymous as I believe I do not have a right to meddle in their relationship with Gus.

I was very skeptical of Gus sending me from the moment that I realised I had qualified as 3rd, because Targa who placed first could not go due to exams. This was because I had been told from a friend who was speaking to Gus that he didn't want to send me. He may try to say that this was not the case, but my actions prove I did hear this from this person; immediately after the qualifiers, I messaged Dox who did the contracts and management of the qualifiers with Gus that I believed there was a chance that he wouldn't send me. I would have never messaged Dox in regards to this if I didn't hear this, there is no reason to especially as I have never met Gus before. Furthermore, there were several more people that had negative impressions of Gus and let me know of this. Once again I wish to keep these people anonymous which I hope the readers will understand this. This is once again proved by my actions; if I were being dishonest about my hearing of these negative impressions, I would have never said to Gus in facebook chat that I was hearing things from different people; once again there is no reason to. Without boring you further with more text, let me provide the contract that was signed by both Dox and Gus Ledesma:

+ [Facebook Chat] +

Many of you that know me know this is the first time speaking out in such disappointment at anything. Many times when we have been side by side as victims of poorly organised events and have often complained. I believe this is a new level that is completely unacceptable. I sincerely wish that what has happened to me NEVER happens in e-sports again. E-sports is a beautiful thing in modern day, and there are no boundaries in its expansion in the future. I ask for my friends, gaming rivals, fans, coaching students, community organisers, passionate e-sports fans and Starcraft 2 gamers for support in my cause to prevent from further occurrences from happening in such events. As for the current situation as per expressed, my girlfriend who is a lawyer is overviewing the contract to see if we can hold Gus liable to the contract even though we are countries apart.

A huge thank you for the many people that have supported me in the past week in regards to this; you know who you are. And to Gus Ledesma: I will not forget the disrespect that you have bestowed upon me, I am not one to forget. You may try to justify yourself and may successfully convince some members of the community to believe that there were other issues such as funding that you were unable to fly me up. But for me the facts that I have mentioned above all line up perfectly, and any reasoning that you attempt upon me is a mere mockery of my intelligence. I hope you truly understand that what you have done is not beneficial to e-sports which is such a shame in what could have been a perfect event in the very promotion of e-sports.

Kind Regards,

YoonYJ

Starcraft 2 player

*edit: more victims of the event: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=283641
*TL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...rentpage=9#180
*reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co..._from_the_ipl/
*playxp (korean): http://www.playxp.com/sc2/global/vie...cle_id=3561685 -please help me explain to the players involved what is happening.

Quick Comments

	MooZfY:	Still love you <3
	ToR.Arnor:	So sad to see this happen, fight the machine son!
	MskiJaBiTo:	Disheartening to see this happen to one of my favorite players in SEA. :(
	Zepph:
	DtorR:	Really well written Yoon. I am completely disgusted by AZKwitchdoc's actions.
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	<3
	Champi:	come down to adelaide on the 26th bro, i'll buy u a beer <3
	EveMassacrisM:	y u so gm -.-
	Stallion:	very unfair and witchdoctor should be ashamed
	Fadey:
	TAriiChard:	mate everything was well said from you. <33
	Synizta:
	Cyanide:	Show them you're not one to be messed with!
	pkyz:
	ZraF:
	EXCL:
	nirvAnA:	love how you kept your cool all the way through! sick upgrade from yoon 1.0 <3
	cure:
	TAavanar:
	BaKaiNu:
	Satu:
	FrOst:
	asdfSchnitzel:	This is so BS!
	FaDeBadger:
	AvPoker:
	TAScarecrow:
	Imperial:
	VB_HpK:
	Nemo:	We are with you <3
	neon:
	xGKingdelete:
	TAminimat:
	x5_Potter:
	Highlander:	You are a model eSportsman
	EveRekanise:
	iM yang:	You are my ******* hero
	NvPinder:	.
	TAkrunch:	39 to this point ppl save the counting
	cRSenSei:	<3 38
	EscapisT:
	Fourby:	I know you
	nGenLight:
	FaDeGofire:
	FvRelimzkE:
	Sc2Clare:
	iM tgun:	You're deadset a better man than me, purely because of how you handled this.
	Aean(::	THE SMILEE TRAINNNNNNNNNNNN
	yongming:
	Maynarde:	HI GUYS!
	ToRDeathsFang:
	Daboo:	+1 to the smile train!
	ChickN:
	pXAero:	C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!.................................sorry.... ...
	Halstrom:	mad props
	\|Erasmus\|:	giving in to peer pressure.
	Loach:	Complete manner.
	Dexterique:	really impressed by the way you handle the situation. Hope all is well :)
	AxS.Sorathez:

mGMUSE · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 4:00 AM

that's REALLY fucked up, sorry to hear bro, and good job for keeping your cool. i would've lost it early.

also, the IPL event as a whole was badly organized anyway. very single game was delayed for hours, lousy production value(as it seemed from the stream) etc

**iM tgun** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 4:14 AM

Holy shit is this just embarassing as hell for them.

Also, the not cool symbol thing is sick awesome.

dippa · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 4:17 AM

well well well.

good luck with that, he says?

challenge. *******. accepted.

Quick Comments

	neon:
	iM tgun:
	freaky_beeky:
	TAriiChard:	mate do ur thang!
	Synizta:

MooZfY · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 4:31 AM

That is really embarrassing for them lol

**ToR.Arnor** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 5:45 AM

Such a load of bull, yeah the writing was on the wall once they announced that Sickness was joining the team, disgusting behavior on his part,

You who what? forget about he's tournament, we'll have are own one, with Blackjack and Hookers!

But seriously
The enemy of my friend is also my enemy.

Satu · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 5:59 AM

This is linked on screddit as well. Pretty much everyone in the community is going to hear about it. (Not saying everyone reads reddit, just it could pop up on TL as well)

You really cant get away with stuff like this anyone in this community. I can still bring up Xeris and (at the time) sixjaxterran, and people would still easily be able to recall what each did which was unfair to people in the community. So basically I cant imagine how much this will tarnish Gus's reputation.

BookII · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 6:05 AM

That's just horrible to read about.

Really well written up, I hope some kind of justice comes from this.

Quick Comments

hillburra:

x5_Potter · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 6:38 AM

Very professional of you not to drop names, and also to take the time to write a proper post rather than a 2 minute angry one.

FaDeBadger · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 6:47 AM

Props to you Yoon, would have been easy to make this a rage filled rant. You know you've got the backing of all of us here at SC2SEA.

Xpace · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 7:14 AM

You were lied to for 5 days straight via Facebook chat. Money was never 'coming in' from IGN.

Quote:

On November 08 2011 06:49 Alex.IGN wrote:
1) Regarding YoonYJ's situation (http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=2699)

This is a terrible situation that we had no information about until when we read his post. We feel like our part in this has been misrepresented and wanted to clarify that our agreement with the PPSL included a schedule for payments which we were up to date on - PPSL was never waiting for money from us.

Full thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=283544

AxSGRiM · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 7:39 AM

PPSL and Team AZK is just an embarassing event, thought it'd put our community in the spotlight with Tastosis casting... but they fucked up really bad. I'm really happy IGN decided to take away their streaming privileges on their channel and they will be casting replays of the good games that came from the event... Sigh

Halstrom · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 7:41 AM

Wow.........this is crazy. Props YYJ for handling the situation like a true professional. If only the rest of esports did the same this stuff wouldn't happen.

I hope you are compensated.

aLtShortizz · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 7:48 AM

Farking embarassing. If Sickness was the reason why u decided not to send Yoon(Who had to play in a qualifier to get in!) over, why dont u just take out one of the AZK scrubs playing in the tournament instead?

Or maybe u USED the money for yoon's tickets on Sickness's?

VB_Boony · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 7:58 AM

This is terrible and totally unprofessional. I feel real bad for you man.
I would also be questioning where the money actually went.

ProLagger · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:01 AM

YoonYJ being so professional

. Good job keeping your cool bro. We in the community sure will keep on supporting you and e-Sports in general.

TAhackdZ · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:07 AM

I have alot of respect for that post Yoon. You are obviously mad, but you kept your cool. This is what a professional E-sportsman should look like! I sincerely hope you get this sorted.

**Dox** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:08 AM

I only wish there was more that I could have done to improve the situation. Really sorry to see one of our own screwed over like this. I was wary of it since day 1, which is the reason I ran this off the back of Team iCHOR instead of SC2SEA, and wrote/signed a detailed 2 page contract before agreeing to do anything for them.

I'll write a more detailed response later. For now, I just feel robbed. I put a lot of time and effort into the Australian qualifier, only to be overshadowed by incompetency and a severe lack of professionalism.

Quick Comments

	\|Erasmus\|:	You ran the qualifiers quite well from an external perspective. And you even went as far as having contracts signed...
	Stallion:	<3 you did great dox we all a little sad witchdoctor is such an idiot

**TAEdgE** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:15 AM

Yeh saw this coming from when it first came out Yoon. I like the stance you took in writing this.
The last comment he said, I hope came about because of the shit situation not because of some shit personality assessment by him.

neon · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:27 AM

I really wish there was some legitimate ethical and logical reasoning as how it went down like this, even the lies and deceit.

I just know there won't be.

Exilemic · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:30 AM

i think he gave yjy's slot to AZKziek coz he's his teammate.

**ToR.Arnor** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exilemic

i think he gave yjy's slot to AZKziek coz he's his teammate.

nah Ziek was going to this before the Australian Qualfiiers were even announced

FaDeBadger · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exilemic

i think he gave yjy's slot to AZKziek coz he's his teammate.

No, Ziek's spot was known ages before the qualifiers were finished. YYJ's spot was given to AZKSickness.

**|Erasmus|** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:36 AM

Well, IGN basically backing up Yoon with them saying they handed out all the money that was required for the event to run (and an extra player NEXSickness being flown in to compete instead of Yoon... how is that possible when you couldn't find any money for Yoon?

)

So yeah, AZK = dicks is what I'm getting from this.

And Dox did a good job with the qualifier... even signing contracts to try and hold AZK to this deal. I really hope there is some legal grounds for this to come back to bite them for breaking that contract.

Since it's clear that IGN won't partner with AZK again after removing their streaming privileges and the like, Dox, you should definitely (if they are serious about trying to get foreign, possibly SEA, players to their events) try and get them to agree to invite the winner of your ACL finals to future IPL events

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

great idea, dox should have just held it in the first place! :)

DonDiego · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:39 AM

I think they obviously wanted a ridiculous amount of AZK players to increase the chance of winning the tournament money...

People like that should just NOT BE PART OF E-SPORTS.

JordsKeen · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:41 AM

Plain silly in my opinion. But props to you man for not going overboard. Your next chance will come, your just that good bro ^_^

ProLagger · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:41 AM

Just to clarify, I hope this only affects Team AZK and not Philippines in general. Thanks

Quick Comments

MooZfY:

Yup only to TEAM AZK not Philippines :P

**|Erasmus|** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonDiego

I think they obviously wanted a ridiculous amount of AZK players to increase the chance of winning the tournament money...

People like that should just NOT BE PART OF E-SPORTS.

Also a lot of AZK players cause it's in the phillipines, they are based in the phillipines, and if you don't receive a paid invite, you would need to win to redeem your flight/accom/etc costs for attending the event.

Most SEA teams are not going to spend such a big chunk of their travel money on this event since they're unlikely to get a return from it.

Benji · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:56 AM

By biggest worry is how far this will set back the SEA scene. From what I can see, the rest of the world will simply see this as what SEA is like, where we know is far from the truth (only really Rossi, Jabito and Enderr are representative of us, and AZK have almost zero community interaction).

It's a very disappointing day to be honest. I'm pretty sure IGN will not support future AZK events, and I don't see a reason why they would pursue hosting or supporting another event here when they can look at Europe and the success they are having there. From what I can tell, they only signed with AZK because the PPSL was already planned, and it didn't take as much effort to support it, however if they are going to build something from the ground up, I'm not sure they will look at doing it here.

Quick Comments

dippa:

exactly. this could be like the CXG for sc2 in SEA.

**Nemo** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProLagger

Just to clarify, I hope this only affects Team AZK and not Philippines in general. Thanks

Why would it ? Generalizing a bad behavior of some guys to all member of a country would have absolutely no sense. It does even not generalize to all AZK members as Yooun has told himself some of them directly helped him :

Quote:

I would like to emphasise that the actual clan AZK consist of wonderful people; it was with the training of many of the Koreans involved in this clan (which are involved in clan lof in kr) that I was successful in qualifying to this tournament.

First and foremost, there has been many people that know Gus personally, and others that are directly involved with AZK that I have been speaking to. I would like to give my sincere thanks for your genuine help in working with me to convince Gus to obtain his part of the contract; I will not forget this. I will be keeping these friends anonymous as I believe I do not have a right to meddle in their relationship with Gus.

Youn, don't be too dis-hearted, your talent will have other and better opportunities.

deL · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:00 AM

Well written YoonYJ, very informative and professional - unfortunate that you had to do it but props for keeping your cool. I'd probably be looking at another ban if it had happened to me :P

Sadly I was not at all surprised when this happened, and am still not surprised to hear that they used the situation to benefit another AZK member. I think IGN made a mistake associating their tournament with this event as it was as bias as any I've seen before - it's basically a clan inhouse tournament plus a few special guests acting as a qualifier for a whole region of the world and it's not right.

Also I feel sorry for Dox as I know how embarassing it is when something out of your control reflects badly on something you have put a lot of time, thought and effort into running smoothly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SatuSPR

This is linked on screddit as well. Pretty much everyone in the community is going to hear about it. (Not saying everyone reads reddit, just it could pop up on TL as well)

You really cant get away with stuff like this anyone in this community. I can still bring up Xeris and (at the time) sixjaxterran, and people would still easily be able to recall what each did which was unfair to people in the community. So basically I cant imagine how much this will tarnish Gus's reputation.

Can we get an upvote link?

Quick Comments

inFeZa:

DonDiego · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:10 AM

Someone on reggedit suggested Gus should have the scumbag hat. What do you guys think?

A friend made this meme, is kinda funny lol http://memegenerator.net/instance/11254937

**PiG** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:15 AM

Just gunna repost what I put on the IGN announcement article on TL:

As a player from SEA who's heavily invested in the community I can say that team AZK and the PPSL looked dodgy from the start. These guys have a pretty poor reputation due to certain members being trolls etc. They even put all these average players into the tournament whom aren't even of a competitive level for some of the smaller weekly tourneys in SEA. The only time I've seen them make a noteworthy performance was in a clan-match with Xeria Gaming where they won 4-1 with a lineup of players who didn't speak english, on guest accounts on supposedly their own server, and no1 had ever heard of any of them. It turned out they were ''Koreans living in the Phillipines and active members of AZK" but I never saw any of them again so my doubts about this team kept growing...

I also wondered how the hell any organiser in SEA would get enough money to produce the event properly, fly so many players there and schedule it accurately. There isn't that much sponsorship in SEA as its eSPORTS is just starting to pick up down here so I was always shocked to hear such grand plans. Now I find out IPL/IGN were providing monetary support and the event was still so badly organised really makes the organisers look quite silly.

Hats off to IPL/IGN for accepting responsibility for having trusted these guys to put on a good event. As the scene here is quite small I can completely understand AZK mixed reputation being completely unknown.

DonDiego · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:25 AM

Yeah Yoon is being quite professional

It's not him doing the memes.

Quick Comments

|Erasmus|:

Yoon is trying to be professional about this, not start a flame war and look like a spoilt brat not getting his ticket... :(

CubeSalt · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:34 AM

Gus is the corruptor of sc2... he also cancelled the flight of all members of team cubes from the province of philippines (cebu) whos qualify from the tournament IPL ... this guy is racist and scumbag... he's taking advantage of esports for his own interest... this guy must be stop and be cast out from the community of esports... damn you u giving bad image of the philippine esports gaming industry...

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	oh wow, didn't know about this!
	nirvAnA:	so cute english!! haha but thanks for sharing this
	EveMassacrisM:	What a buncha fucktards
	ZraF:

porkchop · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:35 AM

this is a big hit not only to the starcraftPH community but also to AZK, i hope this doesnt happen again,

( im a filipino hopefully the next IPL or MLG goes to the highest bidder in SEA, no bullshit pls... SC2 is awesome, and this makes me sad... not to mention the IPL stream was a joke...

GG to u yjy... i feel for u man....

DonDiego · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubeSalt

Gus is the corruptor of sc2... he also cancelled the flight of all members of team cubes from the province of philippines (cebu) whos qualify from the tournament IPL ... this guy is racist and scumbag... he's taking advantage of esports for his own interest... this guy must be stop and be cast out from the community of esports... damn you u giving bad image of the philippine esports gaming industry...

Agreed. He deserves the scumbag hat! http://memegenerator.net/instance/11254937

zendex · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:53 AM

Only the upper management has some "issues". Feel bad for the good AZK people.

freaky_beeky · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:56 AM

This is extremely disappointing to hear, not just for Yoon but for SEA E-Sports scene overall. I eagerly look upon e-sports in the SEA community, especially the SC2 scene and am shocked at how this unfolded. With such big names at the event attracting the eyes of the international community upon us, for “us” to then deliver such a substandard, deceptive and disorganised event will no doubt leave a mark. I really feel for Dox and others who participated in the event, having spent real effort to have been rewarded like this. I hope as a result of this debacle we see the end of tournaments such as this in SEA and make way for a huge contrast of quality in the future, such that we can get some real sponsorship and growth of the scene.

**|Erasmus|** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mOOnGLaDe

This is a real shame and to be honest quite fucked. He also offered me a spot if i joined his team, which seemed a little weird considering i had heard things about yoon getting dodgy responses from the guy, plus i wasn't about to take a spot i didn't earn.

While i am a 'competitive rival' and i did lose to yoon in the qualifiers :P i definitely feel this is a betrayal and an insult on all of us competing for the spots and i really feel for yoon and want to do whatever i can to make sure this never happens again.

Why do I suddenly get the feeling NEXSickness might have been offered a spot in this tournament as part of his decision to go join a foreign unknown team which seems unlikely to offer him many benefits in Korea.

Just to be clear, I don't see how (unlike Glade) Sickness could have known how accepting that would affect YoonYJ.

And also a lot more respect for glade for not accepting such a ridiculous offer. That is just incredibly biased, to sell out Yoon to try and seduce players onto your team who wouldn't otherwise join...

**PiG** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zendex

Only the upper management has some "issues". Feel bad for the good AZK people.

Unfortunately for these good members who I'm sure are nice people, the upper management controls the organisation and so is responsible for the direction they take. In this case I think its clear its not the right direction. Some of these guys may be nice blokes, but if I had Zanooku as a teammate I would break contract if I had to in order to leave that team. Being associated with the management and some of the players they have chosen is appalling and any player worth his salt should be distancing himself from them. Yeah its my opinion and im really angry but I think this event needs no sugarcoating. What are the AZK members really getting out of membership in this team? If I were them I'd be out fast... really fast.

Quick Comments

	dazaris:
	TAScarecrow:
	NvPinder:	Thank god someone finally said this. couldn't agree more
	Xenomorph:
	Imperial:
	Highlander:

dazaris · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:10 AM

Stupid move on AZK's part to be honest. They've acted a bit dodgy in the past, but they've now destroyed any credibility they had at all. Can't see any organizations or players being willing to do business with them in the future with the current management.

Malik · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:11 AM

so is ign paying for the flight or are they just provideing good wishes and rainbows?

Gen_Syntax · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:14 AM

i appreciate you guys for not generalizing the filipinos for the lack of professionalism shown by azk. As a filipino, I'm really disappointed, I hope this serves as a reminder to all clans/groups.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	Highlander:

dazaris · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malik

so is ign paying for the flight or are they just provideing good wishes and rainbows?

IGN wasn't involved directly with the tournament, they were just supporting it and providing a streaming channel.

Witchdoc (aka Gus) claimed that he was waiting on money from IGN, a claim they have denied:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=283544

**Dox** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:20 AM

My detailed recollection can be found here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/view...opic_id=283600

I don't know how many people are aware of this, but it takes A LOT for me to speak negatively about an event. I even stood up for WCG when it was being torn to shreds over at CyberGamer.

This is the first time I've ever felt that it has become truly necessary to highlight the negatives.

Quick Comments

	freaky_beeky:	Great write up
	aLtShortizz:	Awesome stuff.
	rezyn8:	Looks like cybergamer is offline

Qibla · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:21 AM

Wow, this is appalling! Really impressed with the way YoonYJ has handled this though. He has earned some mega kudo's, on top of the massive pile he already had for being such a boss :P

Gus should really be sued, not only for the cost of the ticket, but also for compensation for potential tournament winnings for Yoon. He needs to be made an example of so that this kind of thing can't happen again.

Edit: So IGN has posted on TL that they sent all moneys on time and Gus wasn't waiting on anything. Thanks to IGN for the clarification.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=283544

**Maynarde** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:25 AM

Broken contract = reprocussion? This is truly disgusting, and I want to see the people responsible burn for it in court at least and leave our community.

Benji · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maynarde

Broken contract = reprocussion? This is truly disgusting, and I want to see the people responsible burn for it in court at least and gtfo of our community.

Not worth taking it to court, having to deal with the Aus and Phil law systems would be a nightmare and not worth the ~$1000

**yongming** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubeSalt

Gus is the corruptor of sc2... he also cancelled the flight of all members of team cubes from the province of philippines (cebu) whos qualify from the tournament IPL ... this guy is racist and scumbag... he's taking advantage of esports for his own interest... this guy must be stop and be cast out from the community of esports... damn you u giving bad image of the philippine esports gaming industry...

this is huge. care to clarify.

Unstable · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingBenji

Not worth taking it to court, having to deal with the Aus and Phil law systems would be a nightmare and not worth the ~$1000

99.9% of the time, any contract that will be able to be enforced will ONLY come from lawyers that cost well over the 2k an hour range. Due to the different legal systems from both countries and their intricacies. It is well known among most of the Pro teams and organisations in SC2 that they are simply not useful at all for their cost.

Malik · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingBenji

Not worth taking it to court, having to deal with the Aus and Phil law systems would be a nightmare and not worth the ~$1000

wouldnt u just be dealing with the contract law of the nation that the contracts were signed under rather than both.

WilliamNikhe · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:42 AM

Sigh...

Why AZK, WHHHY?

And our name got dragged into this to boot. FUUU.

Let's hope the other groups can counterbalance this in the future. Mski, KTS please. D:

Kinda worried for Gus though, he's getting so much hate from everywhere. Not that I'm surprised though.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

crAzerk · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:46 AM

This is just saddening to read just when I wake up

Hope they do suffer some severe repercussions for the crap they have done.
Also read Dox's blog on TL, nice plug at the end

hopefully that gets us more players and Dox Cup 2 will be great!

x5.Revenant · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:55 AM

Mad Props to YYJ for handling this so well. I found it rather suspicious that they were promising stuff around like money meant nothing to them too. :/

Highlander · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:01 AM

For anyone wanting the reddit page:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co..._ppsl_exposed/

**inFeZa** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:03 AM

Very sad to hear this, I really am dissapointed in the eSports community, especially for an event of this calibre.
Hope everything gets sorted, free seed for YoonYJ????

Cyanide · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:05 AM

Firstly, good job for keeping your cool.

The event was poorly organized overall anyway, as far as viewers were concerned. Hope to see an explanation from Witchdoc. Because as always, there's 2 sides to a story. I believe we should reserve judgment till then.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

Psychatog · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:11 AM

I don't know how you manage to stay calm after wasting a lot of your time and getting a lot of shit from Gus. Props to you.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

iRLpuku · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:38 AM

well.. at least now we know e-sports is really like a real sport! I'm sure things like this happens in real sports too.. it's a shame this kind of s**t happened.

Gen_Syntax · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:45 AM

any statement from WitchDoc? I mean, he does have the right to explain for his actions....

antarnis · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:49 AM

NOOOOOOO MY FAV SEA TERRAN AINT GOING?! WHAT EFFERY IS THIS?!?! Talk about BM yo. I really wish I could organize something as awesome as IPL but unfortunately, I was stopped by Blizzard even before I started =__= All the best YYJ! Don't be discourage by this mofo.

WilliamNikhe · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:51 AM

None. Can't even get to him.

Might be a bit hard, all PH clans are after his blood. One too many a time I guess.

NvPinder · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 12:01 PM

pretty much just seconding what pig said, I understand that some AZK members may be very nice people, but continuing to stay in a clan with:

1) A guy so obnoxious he almost gets beaten up for being a racist at his first lan event
AND
2) A person who literally had a chance to put SEA on the map and instead made it in a team inhouse tournament with 1 invited Australian player and a bunch of koreans.

Makes you a wanker. I honestly cant respect anyone who stays in AZK after this whole ordeal. Make your own new team without the retards if you don't want to have every single person that runs into you to instantly associate you with the 2 most hated people in SEA.

Quick Comments

	Highlander:
	Fadey:
	VoxMSI.Rogue:
	EXCL:	nuf said!
	freaky_beeky:
	EveTechtron:
	PiG:	I like this guy
	Imperial:

fatbuddah · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 12:23 PM

Power tripping and unprofesionalism.. Good on you YoonYJ for keeping calm and exposing this, you won't be stopped brother!

Sc2Clare · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 12:28 PM

omg... i got more respect for u after this

Champi · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 12:38 PM

ban him, blacklist him, sue him

this corrupted **** needs to be crucified

filth.

Arkanthiel · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 12:45 PM

The bad thing is that this wasn't the first time he was doing this, to be honest.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

more details please!

**Dox** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 12:47 PM

I'd say AZK are currently undergoing damage control. For the first time in over a month, all three of my AZK contacts (Gus, Mariano, Sonny) just signed into Skype simultaneously.

WilliamNikhe · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkanthiel

The bad thing is that this wasn't the first time he was doing this, to be honest.

Sadly.

Anyway, kudos to all the local and foreigner volunteering to help out atm to salvage what there is!

GLHF and GG to all of you.

cRSenSei · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:11 PM

AZK are worse than Qantas

Quick Comments

Fadey:

**TAEdgE** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SQLTt.SenSei

AZK are worse than Qantas

Cmon now..

**Maynarde** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SQLTt.SenSei

AZK are worse than Qantas

At least Qantas paid the people they screwed.

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:	touche
	nirvAnA:	lolllllll
	TAXanT:	lol
	asdfSchnitzel:	lololol
	DtorR:	LMAO top call

pkyz · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:31 PM

woa this is just disgusting.

RicocheT · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:36 PM

Sucks what happened, not only for Yoon but also for the SEA scene in general. I watched parts of the stream, but it was completely filled with AZK guys that I realized something was off. At least now the cat's out of the bag and we all know how PPSL/AZK/Witchdoc/ are really like and can stop them from participating in future events. Props though for staying professional, and I enjoyed TARossi beating some AZK scrub who had no clue how to play zerg.

ETisME · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:45 PM

-nuked-
WRONG TARGET

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	Attacking Dox in post 1? You're not gonna last mate.
	Highlander:	You've got it all wrong. Dox organised the AUSTRALIAN QUALIFIER. Nobody here is defending the Philipino PPSL (yet, hopefully we get some sort of response from the AZK guys).
	Frogmite:	enculeur de maman
	\|Erasmus\|:	yay for calling my rep comment retarded when you have no idea
	nirvAnA:	honest mistake, but please read more carefully next time.
	Synizta:	.

ZraF · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiG

Unfortunately for these good members who I'm sure are nice people, the upper management controls the organisation and so is responsible for the direction they take. In this case I think its clear its not the right direction. Some of these guys may be nice blokes, but if I had Zanooku as a teammate I would break contract if I had to in order to leave that team. Being associated with the management and some of the players they have chosen is appalling and any player worth his salt should be distancing himself from them. Yeah its my opinion and im really angry but I think this event needs no sugarcoating. What are the AZK members really getting out of membership in this team? If I were them I'd be out fast... really fast.

If I'm not mistaken it was mentioned on the venue that Zanooku himself was one of the organizers. A little bit of a conflict of interest IMO, considering he got by far the easiest group.

iSt · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:48 PM

i can tell that this ziek guy's qualification was legit...

but on playxp and other popular korean forums, he is representing australia...

http://www.playxp.com/sc2/global/vie...cle_id=3560704

**syfChadMann** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:49 PM

My opinion - Everyone involved in this site - is at some degree a fan of, or part of the e sports industry, and I think I speak for most of us when I say that the greatest dream and vision for most of us would be a completely legitimised and successful industry. This kind of second rate events organisation is what needs to be weeded out before this goal and dream can be accomplished. The stream and issues at the event just add to the evidence of a poorly organised event - something that IPL will avoid in their next pan pacific qualifier.

This goal of a unified esports industry, of legitimate professionals competing at the highest level of the game is only possible when the contracts and structures of these events are solid and liable. If this was a national athletic event - Mr.Witchdoctor would be all over the media being flamed and his career would be in tatters (maybe we can still put his career in this state?).

Additionally, why was it decided that AZK were the best players in SEA and filled half the brackets?... that is such a conflict of interest (but it only makes it easier for the legit players..)

Anyway, lets all try and work for an international professional industry, where contracts matter and professionalism is expected - not just a bonus.

The world needs more Dox's.
Just my opinion... Best of luck to you Mr.YYJ.

Quick Comments

freaky_beeky:

**nirvAnA** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 1:58 PM

Yo EtisTime,

You are confused, Dox ran the Australian qualifier close to perfect, which was a separate pre-event which served as a qualifier for the "main-event" PH tournament you now see. Dox is agreeing that the main event is a disaster, and his qualifications that he put alot of time and effort into organising has been overshadowed because of it.

Dox = Voluntary helped organise the Australian qualifiers (close to perfect event)
Gus / Wtichdoc = Organised the main-event (disaster and dox had nothing to do with it)

Exilemic · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 2:09 PM

and the bracket's biased. it's clear that Goose wants his member to be in ro16

**cure** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 2:14 PM

Props to Yoon for taking it so well, and I don't really have anything much to say about AZK. Kinda expected this to happen from the start anyway.

DexVitalitY · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 2:17 PM

hmm this is pretty tragic but I feel as the E-Sports scene grows there will be events such as this. Growing pains will occur and I fully respect IPL for taking responsibility for what has happened so far and hopefully the SEA scene will be better because of this.

x5.Revenant · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 2:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAChampi

ban him, blacklist him, sue him

this corrupted **** needs to be crucified

filth.

Word. This man speaks the truth.

Alderaan · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 2:28 PM

Wow so much shit. If not for this thread (and Dox's/IPL's), no one would have known and thought anything about this event other than it not being run very well.

TAXanT · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 2:44 PM

Such a shame, props to YYJ and Dox for supplying as much details/evidence as possible in a professional manner.

Just by reading the conversations between Gus and YYJ on facebook I can tell this guy is going to do nothing good for the SC2 E-sports scene with that attitude.

Sorry to hear about it YYJ.

**Dox** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 2:47 PM

EDIT: Rossi says the brackets were re-generated for some reason by pulling names out of a hat. Mystery solved!

From my blog over at TeamLiquid:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

+ [Original Brackets] +

+ [Adjusted Brackets] +

Quick Comments

	aztecx:
	ZraF:
	Malik:	they must be using a pretty strange hat ....

ETL.Santi · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 2:56 PM

So I heard they gave Yoons ticket to zannaku (Ziek). If this is real...
I think we should just ban AZK from all sc2sea tournaments/events.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	total boycott of AZK!!!
	EveJeonSa:	The Fat man speaks!

FaDeBadger · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 2:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santi

So I heard they gave Yoons ticket to zannaku (Ziek). If this is real...
I think we should just ban AZK from all sc2sea tournaments/events.

No they didn't. They gave it to AZKSickness. Ziek paid for himself to get there.

NvRossi · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 3:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

Looks like the brackets were rigged, too.

From my blog over at TeamLiquid:

wrong, brackets were auto generated by someone at the scene who didnt know what was going on.
Brackets were then pulled out of a hat randomly for fairness.

**Dox** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TARossi

wrong, brackets were auto generated by someone at the scene who didnt know what was going on.
Brackets were then pulled out of a hat randomly for fairness.

That's so bizarre... I wonder why they didn't just leave them alone the first time! They were perfectly fair! I'll update my post to clarify then - thank you for the insight!

Gen_Syntax · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubeSalt

Gus is the corruptor of sc2... he also cancelled the flight of all members of team cubes from the province of philippines (cebu) whos qualify from the tournament IPL ... this guy is racist and scumbag... he's taking advantage of esports for his own interest... this guy must be stop and be cast out from the community of esports... damn you u giving bad image of the philippine esports gaming industry...

Bai, You need to post more of this...damn, this makes me upset...

SuperHero · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 3:32 PM

I am amazed at the incredible level of professionalism that YoonYJ and Dox are showing in regards to this problem. If eSports is filled with people as respectful as these individuals then it will keep getting stronger and stronger.

As far as and legal action is concerned you may find it difficult and costly to get legal action in both the Philippines or Australia for not a very large reward. Although you did get contracts signed and all the documentation in order (very good idea by the way), following through in the courts will not be worth it.

Personally i would write a letter/email to every single sponsor of the PPSL, IPL and IGN and explain the situation and back it up with the evidence you have. I would call for a blacklist of all individuals involved (perhaps the entire team) from participating in any future events.

Also, make sure the community knows about this. Post on community forums and websites explaining what happened. Im sure you will have all the support from the community which will ensure that people will run their organisations as professionally as you have acted.

Best of luck!

biogenie · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 3:44 PM

Just one more guy from the Community who would like to let you know that you did great under the circumstances YoonJY... Want to let you know you'll never walk alone!! We will always back ya!

Cheers

Tenz · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 3:45 PM

I've been out of the scene for forever and a day - but just swung by to say how disgusted I am with that joker, especially after IGN confirmed that all the funds had been sent/received.

I hope he gets what he deserves.

Insipidity · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 4:01 PM

Sad to see how a black sheep can taint the growing community scene that is SEA .... I hope you're able to work things out YoonYJ.

**nirvAnA** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 4:15 PM

YJY REP FARMED and STILL ONLY 89 POINTS lol!!

anyway OppsOppsBaby from TL summed up a nice TLDR version of the drama today.

Quote:

On November 08 2011 15:00 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
TLDR

ppsl qualifiers
- yoonyj was promised a flight and spot as replacement for targa.
- did not materialise. reason was awaiting funds.
- ipl states that payments were on schedule.
- moonglade was asked to represent azk and join azk for 3 months in return for spot and flight but he declined.
- azksickness joins azk recently and gets a free spot and flight without having to go through the qualifiers.
- players from filipino team 'Cube' was denied flights.
- both azk players was given walkovers in group e over rixilius and salt who coincidentally are from 'Cube'

ppsl
- audience did not get the vip privileges (interaction with players, autographs, etc) they paid for on day 1 (usd10). ticketing has no clue.
- stream testing only start 1 hour before event. no sound proofing. not enough ram.
- players have no idea what is going on and the brackets.
- hon players that registered for hon tournament arrive and realise there is no hon tournament. s2 funds unaccounted for.

azk
- some azk members are known for their notoriety online. zanooku/ziek banned from bnet forums and sc2sea after numerous counts of trolling and racism.
- negative comments removed from facebook page

**Eddie** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 4:16 PM

Feel really sorry for you YYJ, but i'm certain you'll get many more opportunities so show the world your talent.

Unlike senior AZK management, who seem to have wasted their opportunity.

Hopefully this won't set SEA back to much in terms of global exposure. We have a lot of quality people who i'm sure will continue to improve things, despite the odd set backs from the minority.

**Cordance** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 4:28 PM

I feel like the whole SEA community has been hurt by the actions of few. Well done YoonYJ for the manor that you handed this incident.
I believe it highlights the risks some people are taking with E sports to try to expand it. Which is good. However we as a community need to better safe guard ourselves against such things.
Public floggings although easy to rally around only help after the fact. We need to be more pro active in our initiatives. It is also a good idea to try to keep things a little open book so people can see what is going on and why, well your building up trust. Even this site use to keep a record of where every donation dollar went until it became more admin work than it was worth for Nivana. How hard would it be for example for details of any tourney to have where the contestants will come from before the event is being held. We all know where the dodgy stuff happened. Im curious as to how involed IPL was into this event considering what happened and why they would let it be so lack luster considering their investment.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

<3 Agreeed. Also i should do some accounting did it last month balance was slightly positive

Imperial · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 4:46 PM

Wow that is so lame

, go upvote the thread on reddit if you have nothing else to do: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/

asdfSchnitzel · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 5:02 PM

Yoon, i feel so sorry for you =(. People like Gus shouldn't have any reputation in the community anymore. What if Yoon had won the qualifer and gone on to win IPL4? Although it seems unlikely, it could've happened, but these scum stopped it in its tracks.

TeZzA · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 5:44 PM

Very sad to see this happen. Glad that they are copping alot of shit though. Has been a mockery of an event.

TABjornbrandr · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 5:44 PM

I'm not even remotely an influential person in starcraft in SEA, I'm just a run of the mill player, but this sort of thing just makes me completely dumbfounded.
From the point of view of a community, this is disgraceful. Placing personal monetary gain above all else is pathetic and should be condemned.
From a business point of view, this is shooting SEA eSports in the foot and is an idiotic approach to the fullest degree.
I'm sorry to hear about how fucked over everyone is from this wanker's actions, hopefully Yoon gets some sort of explanation and Dox can demolish this ****** as soon as possible. I certainly would welcome it asap.
Props to GLaDe for thinking about fellow SEA players, as well.

dippa · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:02 PM

Gus is giving a statement live on stream right now.

dippa · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:03 PM

Statement makes no mention of Yoon and no mention of the missing money that S2 Games put forward for the HON event.

Hopefully there'll be a fuller statement after the event.

NvJazBas · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:49 PM

Can anyone(Korean) translate what YYJ wrote word for word into PlayXP site? I would like to but you can only write on the site if you have a Korean account(I don't think TW account works either.) or if you have active mobile phone in Korea that you check confirmation.
It seems that the thread about PPSL in PlayXP site is wrongly informed as many LoF clan people and NEXSickness himself are writing in that thread to defend AZK, saying that many of those such as Sickness taking YYJ's spot are just a rumour and they want the thread deleted immediately. I think that they should know what YYJ's thoughts and what he exprienced word for word.

I am very disgusted by Gus' action and really feel for Yoon. If I was him I could not have been able to take the trash from Gus with such a professionalism.

Quick Comments

	TAkrunch:
	ToR.Arnor:	Good idea! maybe someone from SPR can help?
	nirvAnA:	go SPR, save YOON!!!
	SungInSPR:	Yes! we are trying our best! @_@
	asdfSchnitzel:

soulmanfOu · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:59 PM

what the hell? YYJ is y cant going ppl? so badly --

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:
	ToR.Arnor:	Agreed :)
	nirvAnA:	so cute
	TADivinity:	hear hear

**Maynarde** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulmanfOu

what the hell? YYJ is y cant going ppl? so badly --

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Paroxysm · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:11 PM

They way in which YYJ handled this situation is amazing to say the least. He has presented a great construction of a SEA player, and this could ultimately be beneficial to the SEA e-sports in the long run, despite his initial loss.

I am deeply disgusted knowing that such injustice has occurred, but the only way you can overcome this is to play harder, better, faster, stronger and pretty much annihilate them in any tournament you see

. I wish you the best of luck YYJ, again, you handled this incredibly well, and good things will more than likely be coming your way soon.

Paroxysm.

**yongming** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

Can anyone(Korean) translate what YYJ wrote word for word into PlayXP site? I would like to but you can only write on the site if you have a Korean account(I don't think TW account works either.) or if you have active mobile phone in Korea that you check confirmation.
It seems that the thread about PPSL in PlayXP site is wrongly informed as many LoF clan people and NEXSickness himself are writing in that thread to defend AZK, saying that many of those such as Sickness taking YYJ's spot are just a rumour and they want the thread deleted immediately. I think that they should know what YYJ's thoughts and what he exprienced word for word.

I am very disgusted by Gus' action and really feel for Yoon. If I was him I could not have been able to take the trash from Gus with such a professionalism.

was finding out how to post an article but saw this http://www.playxp.com/sc2/global/vie...cle_id=3561685.

sickness seems to have some replies in that thread

Quick Comments

NvJazBas:

yea this is the thread I was talking about. I already put a reply in the thread. Some LoF clan people were kind of defending the AZK's side

hmst · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:18 PM

Dear SEA Community

I'd like to bring forward a couple of things concerning this situation and the criticism received.

First off, I am not speaking on behalf of any of the AZK team members or management. I know some of their clan members personally and I am friends with them, and have been talking to them about recent events.

They are all in distress. Many of the clan members had no idea about the scams, shame and controversial acts that took place behind their backs. Many of their members expected that of which was told to them, a tournament consisting of the best SEA players paired with some top pro Koreans. They had no idea about what AZK's management did to achieve such a goal as well...

Although what really shook me up while talking to one of them was his concern with the reputation of the players of AZK themselves. Almost none of the members of the team actually were aware of the events their manager Gus had been involved in, and what so called treachery he had committed towards the entire Starcraft 2 community. All they did was look up to him to provide for the team in hopes of becoming a well known and respected clan in SEA. Then when this happens, and suddenly the world turns against Team AZK, they feel extremely distressed not only because such a reputation has been given to the team, but the players feel that they are being blamed as well. Because the scams and such are depicted as 'Team AZK's' fault, or further flame such as 'Team AZK is a terrible team', the players feel as if they are being blamed for the entirety of the scams, and worst of all, some players are starting to believe that it is their fault as well, and as such, are questioning team commitments and total separation.

Now I am aware that some AZK members aren't on the top of the list of the friendliest Starcraft 2 players, but i know a handful of them, and they are extremely nice and friendly people, who are now shook up and lost entirely given the present situation. The players just did as their management told them to, and up until the current events, thought that the management was doing nothing wrong.

The players are also extremely sorry about your situation YoonYJ, and I know one of them that was even extremely eager to meet you. They had no idea about that such a breach, and they all feel betrayed and lost, and they all hope that they will still have a place in the Starcraft 2 SEA scene.

So I do ask you of the SEA community, a community of understanding, to just be aware of this, and maybe construct your posts with these facts in consideration.

I do feel what AZK management did was unacceptable and requires a formal apology if any condolences are to be made, but lets keep our fingers pointed toward them/him and maybe not towards the players themselves.

I post this not as an official statement from the team, nor as one of their members. I post this as a close friend of a couple of the AZK members, and do as for your consideration.

Quick Comments

	SLCN.Kez:	well said
	nirvAnA:
	wolf:	i dont know you, but i love you <3
	Nemo:	thanks :)
	Highlander:
	Mokss:	Thanks man. :)

**yongming** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:28 PM

@jazbas ah misread your post. well i have a legit bnet account on kr but someone else is using it currently. dont know when i can get hold of him. you might want to ask meatex. if he is still in kr, he should have an active mobile phone.

ProAnnn · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmst

Dear SEA Community

I'd like to bring forward a couple of things concerning this situation and the criticism received.

First off, I am not speaking on behalf of any of the AZK team members or management. I know some of their clan members personally and I am friends with them, and have been talking to them about recent events.

They are all in distress. Many of the clan members had no idea about the scams, shame and controversial acts that took place behind their backs. Many of their members expected that of which was told to them, a tournament consisting of the best SEA players paired with some top pro Koreans. They had no idea about what AZK's management did to achieve such a goal as well...

Although what really shook me up while talking to one of them was his concern with the reputation of the players of AZK themselves. Almost none of the members of the team actually were aware of the events their manager Gus had been involved in, and what so called treachery he had committed towards the entire Starcraft 2 community. All they did was look up to him to provide for the team in hopes of becoming a well known and respected clan in SEA. Then when this happens, and suddenly the world turns against Team AZK, they feel extremely distressed not only because such a reputation has been given to the team, but the players feel that they are being blamed as well. Because the scams and such are depicted as 'Team AZK's' fault, or further flame such as 'Team AZK is a terrible team', the players feel as if they are being blamed for the entirety of the scams, and worst of all, some players are starting to believe that it is their fault as well, and as such, are questioning team commitments and total separation.

Now I am aware that some AZK members aren't on the top of the list of the friendliest Starcraft 2 players, but i know a handful of them, and they are extremely nice and friendly people, who are now shook up and lost entirely given the present situation. The players just did as their management told them to, and up until the current events, thought that the management was doing nothing wrong.

The players are also extremely sorry about your situation YoonYJ, and I know one of them that was even extremely eager to meet you. They had no idea about that such a breach, and they all feel betrayed and lost, and they all hope that they will still have a place in the Starcraft 2 SEA scene.

So I do ask you of the SEA community, a community of understanding, to just be aware of this, and maybe construct your posts with these facts in consideration.

I do feel what AZK management did was unacceptable and requires a formal apology if any condolences are to be made, but lets keep our fingers pointed toward them/him and maybe not towards the players themselves.

I post this not as an official statement from the team, nor as one of their members. I post this as a close friend of a couple of the AZK members, and do as for your consideration.

I think the name "AZK" have been ruined totally. I understand that not every single AZK members are as bad as ziek(zanoooooooku) / witchdoctor(GUSSSSS). But those 2 have totally ruined the name AZK enough. I would totally advice and recommend the remaining AZK players to quit AZK and form a new team so that they wouldnt be 'discriminated'.

Quick Comments

hmst:

i will certainly bring forth that suggestion to the teams members. Hopefully the community will still be able to accept them :D

EveMassacrisM · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:43 PM

@hmst
It's sad but that's how it works. You can't expect people to condemn a fraction of your organization and be totally cool to the others because honestly, we don't give a ****. Zanooku has always been crap in our eyes. Gus has officially been another - a much larger and steamy pile of shit. And this has automagically made AZK a shithole. You can either stay there and see yourself becoming a part of them or leave.

Quick Comments

	wolf:	tut tut vic generalisations are bad mmmkay
	aLtShortizz:	harsh but i think its the truth

Amornthep · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:46 PM

People like him are what gives Filipinos a bad name. Sadly, there are many people like this out there.

hmst · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:53 PM

@EveMassacrisM

You are absolutely correct, and its that kind of attitude which is definitely promoting the idea of breaking off and starting another small team from scratch that is flourishing in some of their heads...would that be a good idea?

ZraF · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 9:59 PM

@hmst I think the best move for players right now would be to leave the team, to preserve their reputation.

SungInSPR · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:24 PM

SPR is trying to help YYJ in korean website @_@

Quick Comments

	yongming:	짱!
	nirvAnA:
	TAkrunch:	well someone wants some rep.... AND YOU GOT IT! =D =D
	dKiWi:
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Alderaan · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZraF

@hmst I think the best move for players right now would be to leave the team, to preserve their reputation.

It's not that simple. The thing is this - they might be contractually bound to AZK already? We don't know how AZK negotiated the deals with the players and they would be breaking a legally-binding contract if they did sign a contract.

**Nemo** · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EveMassacrisM

@hmst
It's sad but that's how it works. You can't expect people to condemn a fraction of your organization and be totally cool to the others because honestly, we don't give a ****. Zanooku has always been crap in our eyes. Gus has officially been another - a much larger and steamy pile of shit. And this has automagically made AZK a shithole. You can either stay there and see yourself becoming a part of them or leave.

Let not be too hasty about all this. It is serious enough to let some time pass and especially the tournament to end to see how it resolve.

We need to know more about all what happened, if Gus will come and explain, if other players of AZK will give more infos. Let's wait for Rossi to tell us more after the tournament because he is there.

We have several sources (including Yoon) telling that a lot of AZK players are nice and respectable players, whatever organisation they are in now (and was thought to be respectable), that doesn't make them culprits instantly.

Yoon was wise enough to stay calm, let's follow his example and wait for more informations and explanations about this to ask people to take such decisions already. There might be other solutions to fix things.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	EveMassacrisM:	True. Though I don't believe AZK will be around for much longer.

dippa · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmst

The players are also extremely sorry about your situation YoonYJ, and I know one of them that was even extremely eager to meet you. They had no idea about that such a breach, and they all feel betrayed and lost, and they all hope that they will still have a place in the Starcraft 2 SEA scene.

If the members of AZK remain on the team after this, then I'm sorry, they don't belong in the scene in my eyes.

Remaining on the team says to me that, while they're sorry for what's taken place, they're still happy to remain under the banner of what is clearly one of the most grossly unethical, manipulative, conceited management teams in eSports today.

The players need to take a stand and vote with their feet; what took place is not just wrong, but totally abhorrent.

Sorry isn't enough - they need to disavow from their organisation and start anew.

Remaining under AZK after this just says that they care more about handouts than they do integrity.

The ball's in your court kids.

wolf · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:35 PM

It's funny you call us kids, yet you're the one for emotional, hasty decision making. Like I said on sc2sea chat, I will wait for Gus to explain himself and the situation before pulling out the lynching rope. I haven't heard from any management as of typing this and I'm not one for knee jerk reactions. I've spent the last few months getting to know a lot of the AZK guys, with most being great people around to practice/joke around with (including Gus). So it's hard to just say "ahh, well **** it, I'll leave nows" and sever that connection. Like Nemo said, this is big enough to warrant waiting a few days to make an informed decision on where I stand with AZK.

tl;dr: Cool your head, as exemplified by YYJ before wanting to CRUSHKILLBURN. Wait for AZK management story and then go from there.
:-)

EDIT: Dippa

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Exactly, just wait a few days to take a cool headed decision. We need more info.
	nirvAnA:
	EveMassacrisM:	<3
	Bash:

zendex · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:35 PM

AFAIK AZK doesn't give contracts. Some of our friends at AZK that fell victim to this whole issue has left.

dippa · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZKwolf

It's funny you call us kids
EDIT: Dippa

Also

, but I'll put this here in case I annoy anyone else in the future: my use of the term kids doesn't mean I'm actually calling you an infant, it's just how I address people. My bad etc.

Onto the meat and potatoes, then.

I'm not expecting you guys to leave immediately, and I'm not saying you shouldn't wait for an explanation from AZK management before making a decision.

But even the biggest optimist will have difficulties explaining away why, after IGN transferred the money to PPSL, Gus waited so long in confirming to Yoon whether he was flying to the event or not.

Or what happened to the prize money from S2 Games for their event. I haven't seen a statement from them yet: that one is definitely going to take some explaining.

This isn't an emotional decision: there's a complete lack of ethics at foot here, and Gus' statement live on air just added to the image of a man that has shown no indication of behaving with any morals whatsoever.

So wait all you want, but at the end of the day, you're going to be faced with the same choice

**nGenLight** · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 2:11 AM

Greed?

Incompetence?

Both?

Misunderstanding?

Or even a combination of the three?

To me it felt like a Uni student cramming his term paper the night before the due date, an effort way, way too late considering the hype and weight of it all.

ETL.Santi · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 4:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

No they didn't. They gave it to AZKSickness. Ziek paid for himself to get there.

Well im sorry mate but can you prove this?

syfMiley · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 7:36 AM

Gus is an embarrassment to e-sports and football. Very disgusted by what he did.

iSt · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 7:43 AM

seems like the things that SPR wrote on playxp thread regarding this issue is getting deleted

**Nemo** · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 7:55 AM

In fact Zendex gave us information this night and it seems that's now much, much more serious than that. Can't tell more since I'm not the source of information, just check the chat archive if you really want to know. Finally, it seems quite good Yoon was out of this mess.

Wawa · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 9:26 AM

hi guys!
this issue is really messed up and i fear that we have yet to hear the worse.

hoping for Gus to step up and make a response soon. -_-

DemisodaSPR · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 9:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Greed?

Incompetence?

Both?

Misunderstanding?

Or even a combination of the three?

To me it felt like a Uni student cramming his term paper the night before the due date, an effort way, way too late considering the hype and weight of it all.

Yeah that's what most of it looks like, cept the parts regarding denying flights to yjy and offering to glade etc etc

**Dox** · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmst

Dear SEA Community

I'd like to bring forward a couple of things concerning this situation and the criticism received.

First off, I am not speaking on behalf of any of the AZK team members or management. I know some of their clan members personally and I am friends with them, and have been talking to them about recent events.

They are all in distress. Many of the clan members had no idea about the scams, shame and controversial acts that took place behind their backs. Many of their members expected that of which was told to them, a tournament consisting of the best SEA players paired with some top pro Koreans. They had no idea about what AZK's management did to achieve such a goal as well...

Although what really shook me up while talking to one of them was his concern with the reputation of the players of AZK themselves. Almost none of the members of the team actually were aware of the events their manager Gus had been involved in, and what so called treachery he had committed towards the entire Starcraft 2 community. All they did was look up to him to provide for the team in hopes of becoming a well known and respected clan in SEA. Then when this happens, and suddenly the world turns against Team AZK, they feel extremely distressed not only because such a reputation has been given to the team, but the players feel that they are being blamed as well. Because the scams and such are depicted as 'Team AZK's' fault, or further flame such as 'Team AZK is a terrible team', the players feel as if they are being blamed for the entirety of the scams, and worst of all, some players are starting to believe that it is their fault as well, and as such, are questioning team commitments and total separation.

Now I am aware that some AZK members aren't on the top of the list of the friendliest Starcraft 2 players, but i know a handful of them, and they are extremely nice and friendly people, who are now shook up and lost entirely given the present situation. The players just did as their management told them to, and up until the current events, thought that the management was doing nothing wrong.

The players are also extremely sorry about your situation YoonYJ, and I know one of them that was even extremely eager to meet you. They had no idea about that such a breach, and they all feel betrayed and lost, and they all hope that they will still have a place in the Starcraft 2 SEA scene.

So I do ask you of the SEA community, a community of understanding, to just be aware of this, and maybe construct your posts with these facts in consideration.

I do feel what AZK management did was unacceptable and requires a formal apology if any condolences are to be made, but lets keep our fingers pointed toward them/him and maybe not towards the players themselves.

I post this not as an official statement from the team, nor as one of their members. I post this as a close friend of a couple of the AZK members, and do as for your consideration.

Great post - although I'd just like to highlight that YoonYJ specifically mentioned that the AZK Team as a whole was full of very good people, and only went out of his way to mention Gus. In my blog I also highlighted Gus and Sonny as the troublemakers, whilst people such as Mariano were actually wonderful to work with.

**Dox** · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 12:35 PM

Gus has addressed the issue over at Team Liquid:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZKwitchdoc

First and foremost, the PPSL would like to formally apologise to everyone (IGN, our sponsors, the players, organisers, special guests and the viewers) who were involved with the IPL4 Pacific Qualifiers. The PPSL takes full responsibility for the way everything has unfolded, and would like to make it clear that it was no one else's fault but ours.

Read more at: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=283925

Weirdkid · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 12:51 PM

So is what he says true? YoonYJ is ok with the issue already? Did he apologise to you personally, or only through this post?

Bugalugs McScruffin · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 1:58 PM

No, Yoon is still pissed, but he's willing to give Gus this last chance.

Pretty generous, but if he manages to fix this then he's pulled a miracle.

And just for Yoon, you can forgive the guy without giving him your trust. He should have to earn it back.

YJY · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 2:01 PM

That is definately true bugalugs. Forgiving is completely different to forgetting. I can only hope the community stands beside me in forgiving him if he acts accordingly. I cannot support him in terms of getting any trust back; that is up to him.

aLtShortizz · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 2:09 PM

I know that Team AZK are one of the victims of this situation. But after reading up about it, i felt like as event organisers, they also bear part of the blame. Instead of pushing everything to Gus and adopting a ''We are nice guy and got scammed too''. Maybe they could have done better in ensuring the events were better planned. To let 1 person handle and decide all the finances(Taking in money and paying) is moronic, especially when this guy has no previous experience/credibility. Thats why shit is stir storming up right now.(Hotel/Flight unpaid).

A first year business or events management student would have noticed the problems and skeptical sheit that your entire organising team(If that even exist) failed too see.

Dont mind me, just got a .little annoyed at the ''AZK are good ppl and only Gus is to blame''. Cos really, with so many ppl involved in the grounds, id assume someone has half a brain to smell something fishy instead of posting something on TL pushing blame on Gus and away from yourself with a (I knew it) post.

x5_Potter · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 2:11 PM

In my personal opinion, witchdoc should still be "banished" as such from the e-Sports scene, apologies or not. What he has done to YoonYJ and everyone else involved is disgusting, and he has just run off, posting only a TL thread, which I have read, that does not really answer to anything, other than admitting to the obscene amount of mistakes that have been made.

While I am with YYJ on the accepting the apology part, my opinion differs from his in that after he has paid up to everybody involved, apologised and shown he his sincere, his career in e-Sports should be over. Personally I would voluntarily give it up rather than try to salvage what is left of it, as the community will tear him apart if he tries to do anything else.

On the issue of AZK players, they should be allowed to make up their own mind, rather than be hounded to leave the clan/team immediately, based on one person. Surely, as has been said by a member already, the friends and the fun they have in the clan is too much to simply give up and throw in the trash, because of all this. Only Gus has screwed up, the AZK members cannot be attacked for simply being in the wrong clan at the wrong time. It is their decision, so leave them to it.

Overall, I am amazed by YYJ's professionalism in all this. First, to post such a calm post about it all, keeping names quiet for their own good and not making a giant rage at Gus thread. Then to still keep calm as all the new information arose about Gus' shadiness. YYJ had my respect for being a great player before all this, and now he has for respect for being a great human being as well.

ZraF · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 2:23 PM

@Yoon I partly disagree with you with regards to forgiving him. In this case I definitely think there was some malice involved when he tried to pull a fast one on the community, trying to screw people for self promotion and monetary gain. Sad to say trying to pull some strings to make things favor you/your team, is quite common in the Philippines. Since no one ever complains, as evidenced by team cube's statement (they were even having 2nd thoughts on exposing what happened).

I think the community should be able to for give to some extent, like accept him as a normal community member; but i think it will be hard for anyone to accept him as a tournament organizer or as a figure in the community (being a team owner/manger).

I think paying you 1600 is not enough for what has happened, there are way way more people screwed/inconvenienced/scammed/cheated leading to this. That I think having him as a community figure, will just make our eSports scene less respectable.

Quick Comments

aLtShortizz:

YJY · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZraF

@Yoon I partly disagree with you with regards to forgiving him. In this case I definitely think there was some malice involved when he tried to pull a fast one on the community, trying to screw people for self promotion and monetary gain. Sad to say trying to pull some strings to make things favor you/your team, is quite common in the Philippines. Since no one ever complains, as evidenced by team cube's statement (they were even having 2nd thoughts on exposing what happened).

I think the community should be able to for give to some extent, like accept him as a normal community member; but i think it will be hard for anyone to accept him as a tournament organizer or as a figure in the community (being a team owner/manger).

I think paying you 1600 is not enough for what has happened, there are way way more people screwed/inconvenienced/scammed/cheated leading to this. That I think having him as a community figure, will just make our eSports scene less respectable.

Paying me 1600 is by far not enough. I accepted a delayed compensation so he would have time to fix the other mistakes that he has caused. I believe that everyone should be forgiven. I don't believe anything should be forgotten, but earned as mentioned earlier. Those who know me well personally know I am very ruthless against who I consider my enemies, but I always believe in chances. This is because I and I am sure you yourself has been given chances

But I very much appreciate your feedback and support.

FaDeBadger · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 2:37 PM

His thread didn't really answer much. Sure he apologised for everything, but his "However, there were a few complications associated with funding" doesn't cut it as an explanation for me. IPL paid him/them, they were supposed to take Targa anyway, they should have had the money.

aztecx · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 2:38 PM

Obviously it's a very different situation if you're actually implicated directly, and I know if I was in YoonYJ's situation I'd probably continue supporting Gus in the hope that I get paid, but from my current outsider perspective I believe that there is 0 chance he is ever going to pay YoonYJ, and very little chance he is going to pay most of the other people he owes. By January chances are this whole situation will blow over, and do you still think he's going to be making back-payments to a player he obviously has proven to have very little respect for?

He's a typical conman and is completely full of shit. Currently he's just feeding people false hope, and in reality it's him who's got everyone by the balls, not the other way around.

Another thing is I'm not sure there are any legal implications for him in regards to not paying YoonYJ. It's actually kind of funny because I don't think much of the debt is in his name, he had everyone else sign contracts for him.

Quick Comments

PiG:

good points

YJY · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 2:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aztecx

Obviously it's a very different situation if you're actually implicated directly, and I know if I was in YoonYJ's situation I'd probably continue supporting Gus in the hope that I get paid, but from my current outsider perspective I believe that there is 0 chance he is ever going to pay YoonYJ, and very little chance he is going to pay most of the other people he owes. By January chances are this whole situation will blow over, and do you still think he's going to be making back-payments to a player he obviously has proven to have very little respect for?

He's a typical conman and is completely full of shit. Currently he's just feeding people false hope, and in reality it's him who's got everyone by the balls, not the other way around.

If he does not pay me, it does not effect me financially. Please don't think I am supporting him because I am trying to get paid. If this was the case I would have threatened him of my initial post privately, as it is the smarter thing to do. I am more concerned about the current people in the Philippines receiving help financially rather than I, and that is why I accepted Feb.

ZraF · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 2:59 PM

I admire your attitude towards him Yoon, despite you being one of the people being affected the most, and I do believe in second chances to an extent. I really don't mind accepting him back as part of the community and i wouldn't be mad at him at all; but again I think being a big tournament organizer or a team owner is too big of a responsibility for someone with a tainted past.

Assuming Sundance(MLG) or Mr. Chae(GSL) would have been involved in, lets say the Broodwar match fixing scandal, I definitely think that it would affect the respective events they are leading. I just think that it would be the decent move for him just to step down. As a budding community in SEA, I don't think we need this kind of thing to hold us back. There are very competent people already in the community, and probably more people with the potential to put SEA on par with international standards.

YJY · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 3:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZraF

I admire your attitude towards him Yoon, despite you being one of the people being affected the most, and I do believe in second chances to an extent. I really don't mind accepting him back as part of the community and i wouldn't be mad at him at all; but again I think being a big tournament organizer or a team owner is too big of a responsibility for someone with a tainted past.

Assuming Sundance(MLG) or Mr. Chae(GSL) would have been involved in, lets say the Broodwar match fixing scandal, I definitely think that it would affect the respective events they are leading. I just think that it would be the decent move for him just to step down. As a budding community in SEA, I don't think we need this kind of thing to hold us back. There are very competent people already in the community, and probably more people with the potential to put SEA on par with international standards.

I completely agree. At the very least, in the near future he will not be trusted or even allowed to run events.

TAkrunch · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 3:05 PM

so i hear Gus pulled ye old

Quick Comments

	asdfSchnitzel:
	Frogmite:	De-so-lé
	PiG:	lol!
	dKiWi:
	EXCL:	haha
	AxSGRiM:	rofl!

**nGenLight** · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 3:09 PM

Yoon did say he was going to do this very intelligently.

**Nemo** · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 6:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

I know that Team AZK are one of the victims of this situation. But after reading up about it, i felt like as event organisers, they also bear part of the blame.

I don't think they do. I hope you never face a professional crook, but they are far smarter than you can imagine at being able to make people believe in them.

I really, really hope for them that they are not taken partly responsible for the debts because I fear all this is going to finish ugly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

Instead of pushing everything to Gus and adopting a ''We are nice guy and got scammed too''. Maybe they could have done better in ensuring the events were better planned. To let 1 person handle and decide all the finances(Taking in money and paying) is moronic, especially when this guy has no previous experience/credibility. Thats why shit is stir storming up right now.(Hotel/Flight unpaid).

Dont mind me, just got a .little annoyed at the ''AZK are good ppl and only Gus is to blame''. Cos really, with so many ppl involved in the grounds, id assume someone has half a brain to smell something fishy instead of posting something on TL pushing blame on Gus and away from yourself with a (I knew it) post.

You have to follow boss orders especially if he begun the clan and PPL with his own money. they could see during the event that it was going wrong, but it was too late at that moment.

It really seems AZK people are victims there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aztecx

I believe that there is 0 chance he is ever going to pay YoonYJ, and very little chance he is going to pay most of the other people he owes. By January chances are this whole situation will blow over, and do you still think he's going to be making back-payments to a player he obviously has proven to have very little respect for?

He's a typical conman and is completely full of shit. Currently he's just feeding people false hope, and in reality it's him who's got everyone by the balls, not the other way around.

Another thing is I'm not sure there are any legal implications for him in regards to not paying YoonYJ. It's actually kind of funny because I don't think much of the debt is in his name, he had everyone else sign contracts for him.

Same feeling for me. He's been probably cornered somehow and try to buy time.

I still keep my mind open about the subject and I'm ready to hear good news from him and this sad story, but for the moment, with the info we have, it's not likely from my point of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YJY

If he does not pay me, it does not effect me financially. (...) I am more concerned about the current people in the Philippines receiving help financially rather than I, and that is why I accepted Feb.

Same, I'm concerned for those people who can be judged debitors of all his debts. You're a wise person Yoon.

Alderaan · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 9:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YJY

Paying me 1600 is by far not enough. I accepted a delayed compensation so he would have time to fix the other mistakes that he has caused. I believe that everyone should be forgiven. I don't believe anything should be forgotten, but earned as mentioned earlier. Those who know me well personally know I am very ruthless against who I consider my enemies, but I always believe in chances. This is because I and I am sure you yourself has been given chances

But I very much appreciate your feedback and support.

If you don't mind sharing, i'd like to ask - how did he contact you to talk to you and what is the arrangement exactly? Because it seems like he talked to you, posted that thread on TL and is MIA again without really giving anyone else any answers, including his staff and team (like they're saying on TL).

TCPKiaSu · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 9:31 PM

that is soooo not cool man...

YJY · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 9:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alderaan

If you don't mind sharing, i'd like to ask - how did he contact you to talk to you and what is the arrangement exactly? Because it seems like he talked to you, posted that thread on TL and is MIA again without really giving anyone else any answers, including his staff and team (like they're saying on TL).

We spoke through a call in skype, and he apologised about what has happened. He said that he will compensate me for flights and accommodation, and I responded by telling him if you do fix not just myself but EVERYONE who has been victims, then I myself will consider this situation resolved.

I am waiting for the next few days to pan out. I have a few insiders telling me what is happening, so I will do my best to keep the community informed. I understand that his letter of apology is not fulfilling; I will judge him by his future actions.

Alderaan · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 9:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YJY

We spoke through a call in skype, and he apologised about what has happened. He said that he will compensate me for flights and accommodation, and I responded by telling him if you do fix not just myself but EVERYONE who has been victims, then I myself will consider this situation resolved.

I am waiting for the next few days to pan out. I have a few insiders telling me what is happening, so I will do my best to keep the community informed. I understand that his letter of apology is not fulfilling; I will judge him by his future actions.

I see, thanks for the update. I hope that, at the very least, your issues will be resolved. Will be checking this thread...

TargA · Wed, 9th-Nov-2011, 10:04 PM

can i get compensated for giving up my spot to yyj and therefore starting the shitstorm?

Quick Comments

ToRsupapower:

loool

**Nemo** · Thu, 10th-Nov-2011, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevenantLover

can i get compensated for giving up my spot to yyj and therefore starting the shitstorm?

Then you admit that you started the shitstorm ? We found someone to take liability for all the bills then.

As always, the strangers are the culprits (and he even has a false "suspect of not very Christian behavior" pseudo).

TargA · Thu, 10th-Nov-2011, 3:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo

Then you admit that you started the shitstorm ? We found someone to take liability for all the bills then.

As always, the strangers are the culprits (and he even has a false "suspect of not very Christian behavior" pseudo).

haha sure, i can take the blame for ppsl!!! START THE LYNCHING!!

aztecx · Thu, 10th-Nov-2011, 10:58 AM

Someone made a great post on reddit:

"I was unfortunate to deal with these kinds of people before. One time I was pretty badly scammed by a person. It wasn't a large amount of money that I lost, but the whole ordeal took over a year and I wasted a lot of time and energy, causing a lot of frustration. I'm basing my opinion on the post he made on team liquid and the stuff I read from other people who dealt with him. The patterns are pretty clear: completely evading the simple but difficult questions, making convoluted explanations and keep making empty promises. The people who do this are basically sociopaths. Whether or not they actually believe in the bullshit they're a saying I don't know, but they certainly try very hard to make it legit. Most of the times they need people to do stuff for them e.g. put in time and money, and they are extremely convincing.
When it is time to actually deliver on the promises things tends to go very bad. They will keep promising to fix everything and the people that believe this will still receive kindness and time from the person, but the people who quickly on catch to the scam will get harassed sometimes even threatened.
You must understand that these kinds of people will never stop with what they are doing. When they get caught in some kind of industry they will ditch it and switch over to another. So my guess is that he already has some bad history outside of e-sports and will continue somewhere else if this thing doesn't get resolved.
My advice to all the people who got hurt by this is: cut your losses, break ties with this guy and continue on with your life as soon as possible. Don't get emotional invested into it. If he still owes you money make sure that you have proof of this and go a debt collector. Do not get into talks with him. He will keep promising you the money with no intent of paying. Send two payment reminders at most with clear dates on them."

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Excellent advice and analyze of the situation

SirChristoffee · Thu, 10th-Nov-2011, 5:32 PM

I have been a pretty inactive person, but decided to read the OP and a few comments of this thread (was in the news). What a load of shit to have thrown at you as well the SC2 community affected, props to you YoonYJ for handling it like a boss.

EscapisT · Sun, 13th-Nov-2011, 9:15 PM

Bumping this for mainly two reasons:

1.Update
Posted by TheGunrun

Quote:

Amanda still hasn't yet been paid for the plane tickets, nor have I been paid back yet for bailing Clive out.

Once everything's resolved I'll provide a timeline of events.

+ [Source with link to post] +

2.When the milk is split, clean it up
Posted by Sein

Quote:

It's unfortunate that people's attention on this seems to be dying down because that is exactly what Gus Ledesma wants. This thread needs to be kept up until Gus Ledesma admits to what he's done and cleans up after all the mess he's created.

+ [Source with link to post] +