[FaDeBadger]

His thread didn't really answer much. Sure he apologised for everything, but his "However, there were a few complications associated with funding" doesn't cut it as an explanation for me. IPL paid him/them, they were supposed to take Targa anyway, they should have had the money.

[aztecx]

Obviously it's a very different situation if you're actually implicated directly, and I know if I was in YoonYJ's situation I'd probably continue supporting Gus in the hope that I get paid, but from my current outsider perspective I believe that there is 0 chance he is ever going to pay YoonYJ, and very little chance he is going to pay most of the other people he owes. By January chances are this whole situation will blow over, and do you still think he's going to be making back-payments to a player he obviously has proven to have very little respect for?

He's a typical conman and is completely full of shit. Currently he's just feeding people false hope, and in reality it's him who's got everyone by the balls, not the other way around.

Another thing is I'm not sure there are any legal implications for him in regards to not paying YoonYJ. It's actually kind of funny because I don't think much of the debt is in his name, he had everyone else sign contracts for him.

Quick Comments

PiG:

good points

[YJY]

Originally Posted by aztecx

Obviously it's a very different situation if you're actually implicated directly, and I know if I was in YoonYJ's situation I'd probably continue supporting Gus in the hope that I get paid, but from my current outsider perspective I believe that there is 0 chance he is ever going to pay YoonYJ, and very little chance he is going to pay most of the other people he owes. By January chances are this whole situation will blow over, and do you still think he's going to be making back-payments to a player he obviously has proven to have very little respect for?

He's a typical conman and is completely full of shit. Currently he's just feeding people false hope, and in reality it's him who's got everyone by the balls, not the other way around.

If he does not pay me, it does not effect me financially. Please don't think I am supporting him because I am trying to get paid. If this was the case I would have threatened him of my initial post privately, as it is the smarter thing to do. I am more concerned about the current people in the Philippines receiving help financially rather than I, and that is why I accepted Feb.

[ZraF]

I admire your attitude towards him Yoon, despite you being one of the people being affected the most, and I do believe in second chances to an extent. I really don't mind accepting him back as part of the community and i wouldn't be mad at him at all; but again I think being a big tournament organizer or a team owner is too big of a responsibility for someone with a tainted past.

Assuming Sundance(MLG) or Mr. Chae(GSL) would have been involved in, lets say the Broodwar match fixing scandal, I definitely think that it would affect the respective events they are leading. I just think that it would be the decent move for him just to step down. As a budding community in SEA, I don't think we need this kind of thing to hold us back. There are very competent people already in the community, and probably more people with the potential to put SEA on par with international standards.

[YJY]

Originally Posted by ZraF

I admire your attitude towards him Yoon, despite you being one of the people being affected the most, and I do believe in second chances to an extent. I really don't mind accepting him back as part of the community and i wouldn't be mad at him at all; but again I think being a big tournament organizer or a team owner is too big of a responsibility for someone with a tainted past.

Assuming Sundance(MLG) or Mr. Chae(GSL) would have been involved in, lets say the Broodwar match fixing scandal, I definitely think that it would affect the respective events they are leading. I just think that it would be the decent move for him just to step down. As a budding community in SEA, I don't think we need this kind of thing to hold us back. There are very competent people already in the community, and probably more people with the potential to put SEA on par with international standards.

I completely agree. At the very least, in the near future he will not be trusted or even allowed to run events.

[TAkrunch]

so i hear Gus pulled ye old

Quick Comments

	asdfSchnitzel:
	Frogmite:	De-so-lé
	PiG:	lol!
	dKiWi:
	EXCL:	haha
	AxSGRiM:	rofl!

[nGenLight]

Yoon did say he was going to do this very intelligently.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

I know that Team AZK are one of the victims of this situation. But after reading up about it, i felt like as event organisers, they also bear part of the blame.

I don't think they do. I hope you never face a professional crook, but they are far smarter than you can imagine at being able to make people believe in them.

I really, really hope for them that they are not taken partly responsible for the debts because I fear all this is going to finish ugly.

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

Instead of pushing everything to Gus and adopting a ''We are nice guy and got scammed too''. Maybe they could have done better in ensuring the events were better planned. To let 1 person handle and decide all the finances(Taking in money and paying) is moronic, especially when this guy has no previous experience/credibility. Thats why shit is stir storming up right now.(Hotel/Flight unpaid).

Dont mind me, just got a .little annoyed at the ''AZK are good ppl and only Gus is to blame''. Cos really, with so many ppl involved in the grounds, id assume someone has half a brain to smell something fishy instead of posting something on TL pushing blame on Gus and away from yourself with a (I knew it) post.

You have to follow boss orders especially if he begun the clan and PPL with his own money. they could see during the event that it was going wrong, but it was too late at that moment.

It really seems AZK people are victims there.

Originally Posted by aztecx

I believe that there is 0 chance he is ever going to pay YoonYJ, and very little chance he is going to pay most of the other people he owes. By January chances are this whole situation will blow over, and do you still think he's going to be making back-payments to a player he obviously has proven to have very little respect for?

He's a typical conman and is completely full of shit. Currently he's just feeding people false hope, and in reality it's him who's got everyone by the balls, not the other way around.

Another thing is I'm not sure there are any legal implications for him in regards to not paying YoonYJ. It's actually kind of funny because I don't think much of the debt is in his name, he had everyone else sign contracts for him.

Same feeling for me. He's been probably cornered somehow and try to buy time.

I still keep my mind open about the subject and I'm ready to hear good news from him and this sad story, but for the moment, with the info we have, it's not likely from my point of view.

Originally Posted by YJY

If he does not pay me, it does not effect me financially. (...) I am more concerned about the current people in the Philippines receiving help financially rather than I, and that is why I accepted Feb.

Same, I'm concerned for those people who can be judged debitors of all his debts. You're a wise person Yoon.

[Alderaan]

Originally Posted by YJY

Paying me 1600 is by far not enough. I accepted a delayed compensation so he would have time to fix the other mistakes that he has caused. I believe that everyone should be forgiven. I don't believe anything should be forgotten, but earned as mentioned earlier. Those who know me well personally know I am very ruthless against who I consider my enemies, but I always believe in chances. This is because I and I am sure you yourself has been given chances But I very much appreciate your feedback and support.

If you don't mind sharing, i'd like to ask - how did he contact you to talk to you and what is the arrangement exactly? Because it seems like he talked to you, posted that thread on TL and is MIA again without really giving anyone else any answers, including his staff and team (like they're saying on TL).

[TCPKiaSu]

that is soooo not cool man...

[YJY]

Originally Posted by Alderaan

If you don't mind sharing, i'd like to ask - how did he contact you to talk to you and what is the arrangement exactly? Because it seems like he talked to you, posted that thread on TL and is MIA again without really giving anyone else any answers, including his staff and team (like they're saying on TL).

We spoke through a call in skype, and he apologised about what has happened. He said that he will compensate me for flights and accommodation, and I responded by telling him if you do fix not just myself but EVERYONE who has been victims, then I myself will consider this situation resolved.

I am waiting for the next few days to pan out. I have a few insiders telling me what is happening, so I will do my best to keep the community informed. I understand that his letter of apology is not fulfilling; I will judge him by his future actions.

[Alderaan]

Originally Posted by YJY

We spoke through a call in skype, and he apologised about what has happened. He said that he will compensate me for flights and accommodation, and I responded by telling him if you do fix not just myself but EVERYONE who has been victims, then I myself will consider this situation resolved.

I am waiting for the next few days to pan out. I have a few insiders telling me what is happening, so I will do my best to keep the community informed. I understand that his letter of apology is not fulfilling; I will judge him by his future actions.

I see, thanks for the update. I hope that, at the very least, your issues will be resolved. Will be checking this thread...

[TargA]

can i get compensated for giving up my spot to yyj and therefore starting the shitstorm?

Quick Comments

ToRsupapower:

loool

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by RevenantLover

can i get compensated for giving up my spot to yyj and therefore starting the shitstorm?

Then you admit that you started the shitstorm ? We found someone to take liability for all the bills then.

As always, the strangers are the culprits (and he even has a false "suspect of not very Christian behavior" pseudo).

[TargA]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Then you admit that you started the shitstorm ? We found someone to take liability for all the bills then.

As always, the strangers are the culprits (and he even has a false "suspect of not very Christian behavior" pseudo).

haha sure, i can take the blame for ppsl!!! START THE LYNCHING!!

[aztecx]

Someone made a great post on reddit:

"I was unfortunate to deal with these kinds of people before. One time I was pretty badly scammed by a person. It wasn't a large amount of money that I lost, but the whole ordeal took over a year and I wasted a lot of time and energy, causing a lot of frustration. I'm basing my opinion on the post he made on team liquid and the stuff I read from other people who dealt with him. The patterns are pretty clear: completely evading the simple but difficult questions, making convoluted explanations and keep making empty promises. The people who do this are basically sociopaths. Whether or not they actually believe in the bullshit they're a saying I don't know, but they certainly try very hard to make it legit. Most of the times they need people to do stuff for them e.g. put in time and money, and they are extremely convincing.
When it is time to actually deliver on the promises things tends to go very bad. They will keep promising to fix everything and the people that believe this will still receive kindness and time from the person, but the people who quickly on catch to the scam will get harassed sometimes even threatened.
You must understand that these kinds of people will never stop with what they are doing. When they get caught in some kind of industry they will ditch it and switch over to another. So my guess is that he already has some bad history outside of e-sports and will continue somewhere else if this thing doesn't get resolved.
My advice to all the people who got hurt by this is: cut your losses, break ties with this guy and continue on with your life as soon as possible. Don't get emotional invested into it. If he still owes you money make sure that you have proof of this and go a debt collector. Do not get into talks with him. He will keep promising you the money with no intent of paying. Send two payment reminders at most with clear dates on them."

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Excellent advice and analyze of the situation

[SirChristoffee]

I have been a pretty inactive person, but decided to read the OP and a few comments of this thread (was in the news). What a load of shit to have thrown at you as well the SC2 community affected, props to you YoonYJ for handling it like a boss.

[EscapisT]

Bumping this for mainly two reasons:

1.Update
Posted by TheGunrun

Amanda still hasn't yet been paid for the plane tickets, nor have I been paid back yet for bailing Clive out.

Once everything's resolved I'll provide a timeline of events.

+ [Source with link to post] +

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...ntpage=51#1010

2.When the milk is split, clean it up
Posted by Sein

It's unfortunate that people's attention on this seems to be dying down because that is exactly what Gus Ledesma wants. This thread needs to be kept up until Gus Ledesma admits to what he's done and cleans up after all the mess he's created.

+ [Source with link to post] +

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...ntpage=51#1004