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Shieldz · Sun, 6th-Nov-2011, 4:33 PM

i think its fair because its kinda pointless choosing random if it shows the race.

iM yang · Sun, 6th-Nov-2011, 5:25 PM

I'd be sure you were trolling if you were anyone but yourself zealo.. it puzzles me some of your thoughts

Zealo · Mon, 7th-Nov-2011, 1:01 AM

why do you hate all my strategies yang?

it's effective it PvT and PvZ because they never expect it maybe? the no ramp thing applies to terran defending just as much as P i thought?

seems to work for me the few times i've tried it vs randoms when i spawn P on that map...

Quick Comments

NvPinder:

.

FaDeBadger · Mon, 7th-Nov-2011, 8:04 AM

It's not effective at all if they scout it coming, which seeing as how you would be random they will be doing earlier. Not to mention the fact that 90% of people expect some sort of cheese from a random, and most people consider 4 gate a cheese.

NvPinder · Mon, 7th-Nov-2011, 8:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zealo

why do you hate all my strategies yang?

it's effective it PvT and PvZ because they never expect it maybe? the no ramp thing applies to terran defending just as much as P i thought?

seems to work for me the few times i've tried it vs randoms when i spawn P on that map...

A good four gate requires a very specific and VERY readable opener. The random players you're playing that are losing to it are fairly bad or really trying to get their meta-game on and failing miserably.

I really really hate using the "pros" as a reason to or to not do something, but there's a very good reason you haven't seen any pro-level protoss 1-gas 4gating zerg or terran (with the exclusion of if they've gone 15cc or something) in the last 6+ months... almost all gateway-heavy timing attacks off 1-base nowadays revolve around trying to deceive your opponent into thinking you're expanding via either nexus canceling or positioning your units such that they cant re-scout the nat after their worker scout.

Zepph · Mon, 7th-Nov-2011, 10:12 AM

Yeah, I feel that for zerg it's pretty much sweet because half the time I don't scout til I have lings anyway (yayy overlords ^.^) and always FE. Terran is in the middle because they have so many openers, many of which are quite flexible and allow you to transition smoothly into what you wanted to do in the first place. I think toss definitely have it the hardest against random as stated in Pinder's post. Perhaps you have to rely on your superior knowledge on a matchup/crisper timings to win and in that way I think they do have an advantage.

On the flipside, if you disregard cheese I don't feel like it's a huge advantage because I highly doubt that they are going to be executing each build for each race and matchup perfectly (or close to perfect). Perhaps they will be a little ahead, say, if they got a much earlier expansion that you couldn't punish. But this shouldn't be game-ending in anyway. You can possibly try throwing them a curve ball and doing a weird build or uncommon strat yourself to play off their disadvantage of having to know all 9 match ups as there's no way they can know how to effectively with every situation.

If you lose to a random player only because you didn't know what race they were at the beginning it's up to you not to take too much from it. It's not like you're playing random players every second match (or at least I hope not o_O) and in a lot of tournaments they make you choose a single race anyway.

Bugalugs McScruffin · Mon, 7th-Nov-2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zepph

It's not like you're playing random players every second match (or at least I hope not o_O) and in a lot of tournaments they make you choose a single race anyway.

Zepph, there are four races in SC2.

,

and

. I'd be pretty pissed if I rocked up to a tourney and they discriminated against my race.

Digby · Mon, 7th-Nov-2011, 12:59 PM

Random is fair, with certain exceptions as pointed out by others, howver it adds a new dimension to the game, being forced to play a certain way in XvR is the same as playing any other match up, you're forced to play differently every time. WTF LARVA??? I was awesome Zealot before now I'm larva

Zepph · Mon, 7th-Nov-2011, 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugalugs McScruffin

Zepph, there are four races in SC2.

,

and

. I'd be pretty pissed if I rocked up to a tourney and they discriminated against my race.

Haha yeah, true ^.^ But sometimes they gotta be a little racist to keep it.."fair" I suppose. At least most will allow you (from what I've seen) to choose your race each match. They just don't want you to enter the game as Random to eliminate the QQ.

Bugalugs McScruffin · Mon, 7th-Nov-2011, 2:39 PM

Weak.

Choosing your race each match is not Random, it is choosing your race. Random is random!!! Grrr. Anyways.

TADivinity · Mon, 7th-Nov-2011, 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugalugs McScruffin

Zepph, there are four races in SC2.

,

and

. I'd be pretty pissed if I rocked up to a tourney and they discriminated against my race.

I didnt know Random was a race? What units do they have?
I guess sc2 is moving towards the wc3 four race thing?

Bugalugs McScruffin · Mon, 7th-Nov-2011, 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TADivinity

I didnt know Random was a race? What units do they have?
I guess sc2 is moving towards the wc3 four race thing?

What are you talking about Warcraft 3 had 5 races?

Zealo · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 4:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TADivinity

I didnt know Random was a race? What units do they have?

marines, infestors colossus and ghost. so imba.

just versed a random called light who proxy 2gated me, then said gg, then tried to tech to DTs lol

stalking you · Tue, 8th-Nov-2011, 8:25 PM

i think that Random Is a little bit gay because u dont kno whats coming after you, but i play terran so i can just do the same build and transition out of it depending on his race like i always do lmao

breadfan · Tue, 15th-Nov-2011, 9:42 AM

I think the advantages and disadvantages vary at different levels of play. Especially playing up through the low levels, I found that generally a random player is going to be a little more skilled in macro/micro than you because they have that disadvantage of familiarity with each of the races. In saying that, there areups and downs I guess.. At certain levels, I noticed that was true, and as I improved I "caught up" on those aspects of play

darkphoenix22 · Tue, 15th-Nov-2011, 9:45 AM

playing as toss vs a random is annoying, u kinda have to start building a wall but still have to scout super early x.x annoying as @#$%

DeekZ · Fri, 18th-Nov-2011, 7:25 AM

I find it pretty annoying versing random, my builds vary per race obviously, either I blindly go one build or I scout super early? The worst is when you want to no gas expand. I dunno, not a super big deal I guess, just kinda annoying.

Dhal · Fri, 18th-Nov-2011, 1:32 PM

I'm of two minds about it.

On the one hand, playing against a Random is a small disadvantage, while they have a small disadvantage in the sense that they must learn all three races.

However, I don't think its that simple.

A Random player can overcome his disadvantage of playing all three races by practising a shitload. If he is dedicated enough, he can overcome all disadvantage.

Those playing against Random have no such luck - you ALWAYS have the disadvantage of not knowing exactly how best to open, and no amount of practise can overcome that.

Zealo · Fri, 18th-Nov-2011, 2:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeekZ

I find it pretty annoying versing random, my builds vary per race obviously, either I blindly go one build or I scout super early? The worst is when you want to no gas expand. I dunno, not a super big deal I guess, just kinda annoying.

you have a build you do vs random, it's not rocket science