[Satu]

First post, be gentle. :P

You guys have probably heard this a few times before. Im in bronze league, trying to get to silver league. One of the biggest problems Im having is the protoss 4gate strategy. I can probably post some replays if you REALLY need them, but I want to talk a bit more generally than specifically about strategies anyway.

Against 4gating, I've had mixed success. I got 14pool15hatch almost every matchup now, after discarding the TL 11overpool build. I cut drone production around 20ish drones, then go heavy on lings. But heres the problem, sometimes I go roaches and hydras on top of that, sometimes I got roaches. Half the time when I get 4gated but I defend it, I lose later due to being countered, OR I just lose from the 4gate moving into my expo. I usually have about 3-4 spines up sometimes with evolution chambers in front of them, as HDstarcraft showed in a tutorial to defend against 4gates once.

So, Im thinking what Im doing wrong is that I should be doing builds based on the units the toss makes, but usually when I realise I've done the wrong build, its too late. I think my amount of scouting is fine, I usually go up the ramp to check their army composition and also send a few overlords around their base.

Can someone tell me what I should make vs specific 4gate builds? Also, if Im doing anything else wrong, go ahead and say that too. Thanks.

[DM.MCZ.Shondy]

after scouting fast 2 gas

usually will up to lair for roaches speed and lay down at least 5 spines to hold till i got the amount of roaches to fight back..
for smaller maps like steps i go 6-7 spines ;s
once successfully defend and overpower, usually i get a GG from them already

im not a very gd play so just take what its worth it :P

btw wats bad about the 11 pool 18 hatch, cause im still using it :X find it safer haha

[Satu]

Originally Posted by riceballz

after scouting fast 2 gas

usually will up to lair for roaches speed and lay down at least 5 spines to hold till i got the amount of roaches to fight back..
for smaller maps like steps i go 6-7 spines ;s
once successfully defend and overpower, usually i get a GG from them already

im not a very gd play so just take what its worth it :P

btw wats bad about the 11 pool 18 hatch, cause im still using it :X find it safer haha

14pool 15hatch gets your economy up faster, I find. on Teamliquid forums they had some graphs on the most economical zerg build and 14pool 15hatch comes out at the top. Also, vs 4gate, if you want to have a worker advantage after the defence, you'll want to have the hatch down earlier so you can actually have workers there AND also be able to make more workers.

I just watched a Day9 daily on drone timings and I actually understand this a lot better now I think. Its just I am slightly confused on what I should be prioritising vs a 4gate army, roaches, speedlings or quick hydras (Probably not the hydras tbh... Depends on attack timing).

So, I'll just say what i think I should be doing:

zealot heavy = more roaches
stalker heavy = more lings
sentry heavy = roaches again

Scout the front door heaps, send overlords in on the sides to sacrifice and check for stargates, constantly look at how many units they have and is making and make units before he even moves out if they have a very large army.

Did I just answer my own question? Sorry if I just did, but I look for information EVERYWHERE and draw to conclusions...

Sorry to waste your time, LOL

[DM.MCZ.Shondy]

haha its ok

your answers helps me too ^^

[Cordance]

There are several different kinds of 4 gate pressure.
First there is what has been named Korean 4 gate. In which they cut probe production limit gas gathering to get a crazy number of early zelots into (or near) your base via a proxy pylon.
Second there is the standard 4 gate which continues normal probe production the push comes later but is more constant. Normally using the proxy pylon again to save travel time once the attack has started.
As a general rule 4 gates are one base strat how ever sometimes there will be a lull in the attack when they get an expansion up.

4 gate works bests if they drop a proxy pylon if you can scout and kill that the pressure will be off significantly. As they will have to walk the map to reach your door.
As said spine crawlers by your expansions ramp to your main are good defend your expansion and limit run by tactics.
Also do not underestimate the power of queens. They are defensively powerful and once you hold you can tumor quicker for counter attacks.

[divinesage]

Hmm 3 to 4 spines and a handful of lings should normally be able to hold off an initial 4 gate push. Perhaps you're cutting too many drones and investing in too many lings. Hurts your eco real bad and that might be why you lose out later on.

[Satu]

Originally Posted by divinesage

Hmm 3 to 4 spines and a handful of lings should normally be able to hold off an initial 4 gate push. Perhaps you're cutting too many drones and investing in too many lings. Hurts your eco real bad and that might be why you lose out later on.

I honestly cannot list a single game out of my last 50 where I've lost for cutting drones for too long. If anything, I lose games because I make too many drones. I've heard this is the correct way to lose zerg games, instead of making too much to defend. It really is a tug of war between making drones or defences, and trying to find the right balance. Of course, the decisions made are completely based off how the situation is assessed, via scouting. I think thats where I've gone wrong most of the time, but improving on it.