[ToRXypha]

Is there anyway to know if im actually improving my skill level in terms of the leagues.
at the moment i get a few wins (6-7) ahead of 50% and then i start losing a couple and break even again, at the same time my div rank will go up but you know that hardly means anything. guess my question is how can i know i actually am improving in the bigger scheme of things instead of blizzards system that will always make it seem your getting better even if your not and you only know when you get promoted a league or demoted

[OxygeN]

There are of course both quantitative, and qualitative factors to knowing if your improving, and to quickly go through some of them,

Quantitative :
Higher win-rate.
Utilize most of your resources.
Building the counters to your opponent unit mix
Building sufficient production structures.

Qualitative :
You feel more confident vs a specific match-up,
Positioning your units better, (eg. maruders around marines, roaches infront of hydras)
Doing more harassment.
Losing less from harassment.

Hope this helps!

Quick Comments

inFeZa:

good advice

[ToRXypha]

Yeah, i definatly feel like im improving all of those areas, and im seeing the odd plat player being matched againts me.
i guess for me i don't tend to improve unless i'm playing someone i know is better then me, (feel like i have to step up to the plate, just motivates me more). so maybe im improving and go up in blizzards background rating so it places me againts progressively harder where i continue to win and then hit my wall where i level back out to 50%, ( well i hope thats whats happening and im just not backstepping to old spot)

If there are any Plat/Diamond players who are willing to give me a 1v1 every now and then let me know, i think that would greatly improve my play

[SiZeMaTTeRs]

Well .. i will have to go with Oxygen. What i always do to know when i'm improving or not is too always watch replays on 1v1 game that u played (ladder or customs) no matter if u win the match or loss the match. Study the replays, identify your mistakes and improve it next time, dun worry about APM that much in your matches, concentrated more on your timing and in-game response.

[nirvAnA]

i think it mainly has to do with a players approach to learning, let me just characterise these groups of players into two groups - g#1 and g#2.

players in g#1 approach the game very analytically, they study the game and absoutely hate losing, which of course drives them to study the game even more. when they lose, they take a moment to reflect on why they lost, and what they could have done better. players in these groups imo are people like ice and glade. always after i beat ice, he takes a really long time to say gg. its not because he has "bad gg timing", but i believe its because hes reflecting on why he lost and what he could have done better, even at the end of the actual game itself, as at the end he always comments on his play like he should have gone this tech instead when he saw my units, or he miscalculated the timing and should have gone xxx faster etc. As a result, he learns something from every game he plays. These players also spend time going over their own replays figuring out why they lost and also slowly watching or rewatching key replays of good players with a learning approach, i.e testing himself if he would make x and x units in the same sitation and then sees if this top player makes the same, judging who will win the next battle before it happens, etc. these players constantly seek information for e.g searching forums for strategies they have trouble with and reading discussions. they often end up having good ladder records.

People in g#2 instead are more of the casual type and just want to have fun and continue playing the game. They are probably tired enough from work/school and just wanna sit back and enjoy their gaming expereince without that much study or indepth thinking, so they end up ploughing on by massing more games. they also tend to watch repalys by massing them as well, watching alot of them and at very fast speeds. Of course everyone wants to get better, but it takes effort. At the back of their mind they might think that they will subconciously learn and absorb all these new information and become better, but this is an approach i disagree with.

although g#2 might work for the minority of people, i believe the mindset in g#1 is far superior and helps increase your understanding of the game much more.

Because gamers in general are naturally lazy, and "just want to play/enjoy" the game, i would say most people belong in g#2. it takes alot more effort to sit back and think about the game and why you lost, which can be annoying and which is why most people do not do that.

It has also being in my expereince that players in g#1 tend to hate massing games because they prefer learning and thinking over repetition. Which is a shame because a mixture of g#1 learning approach and the massing game approach as in g#2 is the absoulte best combination to have.

i personally would encourge players who want to be good at this game to dedicate time to study it, as in be a part of g#1!

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Clear !
	FS.Kezz:

[ToRXypha]

Thanks for that, i started in G#2 when i first got the game, (didnt play Beta) just to enjoy it and not be too in depth, i really enjoyed it and decided i want to get to diamond now.
Now i look at all my replays sometimes twice (sometimes i get distracted on a game I won by the battle instead of checking on my macroing) since doing so I've learnt how to time my pushes a little more (a little easier now with the game clock) when to harass and when to know the harrassing is costing me more then i'm gaining.

I've learnt I get distracted later mid game to end game and forget to keep on ther spawning larva and spreading creep. or occasionally i've left it to long for another round of scouting and get caught out by cloaked banshees (noticed is very hard to knock back as zerg if you are completely not ready for it).

Since i noticed these mistakes my game has definatly increased in skill.

Thanks for the advice

[HuT]

Everybody does it, they wake up, ready for a day packed of 1v1's and the idea that they'll add a few hundred points onto their ladder score. But, after you lose 3 in a row, all the while using strategies that you have utilised that have been successful in the past all seem worthless now.

As a question to the general populace of these forums, when you hit a barrier, whether it be psychological or skill based that negatively impacts your gameplan and ability to win games you have won in the same manner before, how do you work to overcome it? Do you stick to the same strategy and try to refine it, or do you decide that a build or tactic is obsolete and forget it all together?

Share your views!

[dtarchon]

My honest advice: You are too concerned with NOT losing. 3 losses in a row isnt that bad.

If it escalates to ten, then maybe you should take a break, do some stretching exercise or simply a nap to recover yr mental energy.

Other things you can do is to play a custom or team league game where a loss might be less painful for you and allow you to recover your confidence/refine yr skills so as to speak.

Losing is part of winning. Failure is a stepping stone to success. If you look at it this way, you will naturally progress forward.

And finally, If you are using the same strategy for the past 3 games, its time to change perhaps? and review what yr opponent did to defeat you.

[TAEdgE]

This depends on how you are as a gamer though. I personally try to analyze why i lost and just get myself in the right condition to win a game to get some confidence back (after a losing streak start.)

I overcome it generally by simply just taking a break with simple reflection, listen to some music, if im listening to music when i play, turn it off, or vice versa... maybe watch an fpvod, or talk to a friend about it and just vent little frustrations (possibly if you lost to stuff you either never face, or always face, so it's a bit more annoying).

I think that playing through it is what the majority of players do though. Everyone loses. Losing is more helpful than winning for everything except confidence and ladder/tournament standing. It teaches you what you did wrong, and how you can overcome that little hole so that your overall game will be even stronger with each win.

Others i see overcoming it similarly, but maybe they just vent their anger (if it is a significant loss streak), taking a break, and simply coming back as if it never happened. I never really do that but i've seen some of my friends do it frequently. Just a simple break if you don't want to stress over any little ladder details or continuing confidence bumps.

[sheepy]

I don't believe theres such a thing as a glass ceiling. If your not improving, its because you not doing it right.

When your watch your own loss replays, what you tend to find is that you are able to identify so many errors in your own gameplay. So many that sometimes its just shocking.

However, i noticed that most people i know tend to never watch or save their own loss replays, cause of the rage from losing ( i'm guilty of that too ) . And many people weirdly watch their own win replays, esp if they win against someone good. Its a really important habit to take a step back, look at your loss and think, what could i have done better? what can i do to make sure i avoid similar mistakes again?

[ToRXypha]

Well it looks like i have been improving, my win ratio is going up now and i got promoted to platinum today, hopefully not much longer and I can get my way into diamond. Thanks again for the advice.

[CasualPlayer]

2 Thumbs UP for this article, enjoyed reading it thoroughly
Starcraft 2 - Secrets of the Masters

Kudos to all the pro gamers out there, they are the motivation & inspiration for the SC2 community

[Lovestoned412]

so there will be 200 people who are entitled in the grandmaster league? lol man i lost 11 won 8 yesterday

[Lovestoned412]

it took me so long to read finish lol. but i believe its worth it ^^

[keki]

Good read
Can't wait for the new leagues to come out!

[CasualPlayer]

Yup.. The leagues are definitely some great addition to come. Serve as motivation to be one of the best out there

The article contains lot of the basics yet fundamentals of the game. It's good to keep all of them in mind whenever you're playing.

have fun.

[Jabberwocky]

With regards to nirvana's post, I feel that it is a really accurate assessment of the various types of players that exist on the ladder. I feel that most of the SEA players tend to deviate towards g#1, some still mass game with not much improvement in sight (I was like this before actually deciding to become good at this game )

[rubytuesday]

If your div rank is going up you are improving. Rating is the best indicator of skill provided bonus pool is at 0.

[TAhackdZ]

Originally Posted by nGenHuT

Everybody does it, they wake up, ready for a day packed of 1v1's and the idea that they'll add a few hundred points onto their ladder score. But, after you lose 3 in a row, all the while using strategies that you have utilised that have been successful in the past all seem worthless now.

As a question to the general populace of these forums, when you hit a barrier, whether it be psychological or skill based that negatively impacts your gameplan and ability to win games you have won in the same manner before, how do you work to overcome it? Do you stick to the same strategy and try to refine it, or do you decide that a build or tactic is obsolete and forget it all together?

Share your views!

IMO builds, strats, and tactics never become obsolete. There will always be situations where builds we previously thought we're useless will shine, and vica versa.

Personally I don't tend to give up on a build or strat to easily. If I get a bunch of losses, I'll look at the build and see where I can fit something else in, or take something out.

[Doctor]

Originally Posted by FaNaTic

2 Thumbs UP for this article, enjoyed reading it thoroughly
Starcraft 2 - Secrets of the Masters

Kudos to all the pro gamers out there, they are the motivation & inspiration for the SC2 community

you posted it so long ago , i've just found it just now.. thanks for the link man.. it helps

[Zanderax]

When I lose a game I go to the NA server where I am plat and just stare at my badge for a while. Always helps me remember that I am in fact awesome.

Custom games are also good because they give you some practice in micro, macro and unit comps while shaking things up a bit.

[maximusPrime]

It's all about the macro. I just watch my replays and make sure I'm always producing workers and always spending my money. If I'm waiting for money to produce units I watch the replay and see whether I'm building too many structures and cant support them with my current income. Same thing though you don't want to have an excess of money but cant spend it because you don't have the buildings.

I try to keep that balance correct and then I feel that I'm improving if i do get it correct. Even if I lose I'm usually happy if I can keep that balance and if you do lose then watch the replay and see where you went wrong, whether it's unit composition or micro or just being outplayed in general.

Watch old replays and then some new replays and see how your play style has changed you should be able to pick up on things you do better. If you don't see any changes you just need to pick out what you think you are doing wrong and work on improving that.

[Azure]

Nice article enjoyed the read especially liked nirvana post.
I also agree that most people are in g2 myself included.

The problem I face is that with a GF + full time work and friends it is hard to dedicate the time to be in group 1. I usually log on mass as many games as I have time for them log off and thats it until next time.

I also agree that blizzards ladder does not give you as the player much indication that your getting better or not most people sit around 50% w/l and because of bonus pool will always get higher on the ladder it makes you feel your getting better but your not.

[Next_rim]

I also agree that blizzards ladder does not give you as the player much indication that your getting better or not most people sit around 50% w/l and because of bonus pool will always get higher on the ladder it makes you feel your getting better but your not.

Same. I actually manually count my wins and losses and keep a record in excel, just so I can track my win/loss. I've also tried to keep a record of map and race matchup, but too lazy for that :P

Add: Whoa, I've been doing pretty good in the last 2 weeks :P

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...gLLyEwHg#gid=0

[Nofan]

I'm high plat on na and was doing pretty good with my win rate till i hit diamonds. I think i've fell to an even 50% and are vsing high plats and diamonds now.

I feel like every win i had to play really well. And alot of the tricks or gimmicks i used to do don't work anymore. Most of my losses are to one bases. And i realize that it's okay. I just need to learn how to better identify all ins.

The higher in ladder i seem to get the harder it gets. But that's expected. I just think with solid practice and determination you can progress and develop yourself. Personally I've been shying away from anyone one base play. And aiming to win once im on my 2nd or 3rd base. It's been improving my macro and apm!

[FSDarkNemesis]

Sigh..... I've yet to win any 1v1s, 2v2s and 3v3s in Season 2 in the Silver League... (gold league for 2v2)

[Melite]

Next_rim, that's an awesome way for those not in masters. To be honest, I think Blizzard should bring the loss coloumn back. Those losses motivate people too you know...

[Next_rim]

Melite,

I'm now using sc2 gears, it pulls good statistics form a replay database, very useful to track progress by map and matchup.

[PanDMonium]

So, I had been struggling to get out of silver for months now. Watching replays, playing when I can, paying for guides and coaches. Today when I played for my season 4 placement, I got demoted all the way back down to rank 75, when before I was rank 10. I'm beginning to wonder if there's not just something wrong with me as a person that is inherently incapable of being good at this game.

After 500 wins, and working on my mechanics, I can confidently say that I don't generally loose to not building enough drones. I loose to shit like phoenixes picking off all my overlords, rows of stalkers I can't kill no matter how many zerglings and upgrades I get. I've played against zergs that consistently get more shit out and have a stronger economy no matter how much I try to only build units when I scout an attack or tech switch. I die to marine spam, no matter how many fungals, or banelings, or mutas I make.

I'm not getting utterly rolled over. I'm just not winning. I don't know what to do. I feel terrible for dedicating so much time to something and never seeing any improvement. I hear that there are little kids that make it into masters league, and it makes me feel like I may be developing some kind of inferiority complex.

[neon]

Originally Posted by PanDMonium

So, I had been struggling to get out of silver for months now. Watching replays, playing when I can, paying for guides and coaches. Today when I played for my season 4 placement, I got demoted all the way back down to rank 75, when before I was rank 10. I'm beginning to wonder if there's not just something wrong with me as a person that is inherently incapable of being good at this game.

After 500 wins, and working on my mechanics, I can confidently say that I don't generally loose to not building enough drones. I loose to shit like phoenixes picking off all my overlords, rows of stalkers I can't kill no matter how many zerglings and upgrades I get. I've played against zergs that consistently get more shit out and have a stronger economy no matter how much I try to only build units when I scout an attack or tech switch. I die to marine spam, no matter how many fungals, or banelings, or mutas I make.

I'm not getting utterly rolled over. I'm just not winning. I don't know what to do. I feel terrible for dedicating so much time to something and never seeing any improvement. I hear that there are little kids that make it into masters league, and it makes me feel like I may be developing some kind of inferiority complex.

While I'm no expert myself, I believe rank is just based on how many points you accumulate, when you do your first placement, win or lose you get 0 points, so you will have no points till your next win, and you will be with all the other people doing their placement, so I would not let this worry you and keep playing.

In regards to your losses, post a replay or two and get some feedback, there are some very nice community members here who can give you tips and help analyse your play, you mention you've gotten coaching, I guess maybe try remember what you have been taught and watch the replays and ensure you are doing all of those things. (write down the things you were told are most important, then watch the replay so it's clear when you do and don't nail it, many people just say yeah I was doing it and cheat themselves!)

It's important to have fun also, so try not get too disheartened, watch your own replays and try focus on improving one or two main things and if in say 5 games time you can compare the replays and notice a visible improvement in it, take merit in that, win or lose!

Quick Comments

Nemo:

@PanDMonium : do what neon says

[JordsKeen]

Heres a small tip. Get your worst match up and ask around to builds that work or stratergies that work. Then grab a mate and play him say... 10times. Do this stratigy/ build everytime and let him try and beat it. What this does is a few things -
1. Shows you what it works against
2. Makes you refine timinings and become acustomed to doing it, eventuall you get really good ^_^
3. If you have a mate who's better than you watching game on skype he can make small comments on it to refine it. That's what I've done and and am doing... working well ^_^

[Next_rim]

Get your worst match up

That's pretty hard

Right now I have 68% PvZ winrate (down from 70%), 44% PvT (down from 45%), and 36% PvP (up from 33%). In total, I'm sporting almost perfect 50% (294-290 record).

What I've really noticed is my average apm slowly going up. It used to be 70-80, now it's steady 90+ for every match up.

[Volition]

Originally Posted by PanDMonium

After 500 wins, and working on my mechanics, I can confidently say that I don't generally loose to not building enough drones. I loose to shit like phoenixes picking off all my overlords, rows of stalkers I can't kill no matter how many zerglings and upgrades I get. I've played against zergs that consistently get more shit out and have a stronger economy no matter how much I try to only build units when I scout an attack or tech switch. I die to marine spam, no matter how many fungals, or banelings, or mutas I make.

I know where you are coming from - i also love the game and just never seem to be going anywhere. i have swapped races because i believed they are OP, and then found the problems of that race, felt that no matter how hard i worked or how much i knew opponents builds etc, i would still get pummelled and was losing more than i thought i should be.

There will always be the people that say "learn to macro blah blah blah" and not actually provide any thoughtful or useful help to you. Like other posters have said, throw up a replay if you want some tips from the boss zergs on this site. in general, i find the people on this site are much better than other sc2 forums

I know where you are coming from in relation to gauging whether you have improved or not. this thread:-
http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=2252
contains a pretty useful thread (and discussion afterwards) about measuring your macro and it provides a number. As the posters in the thread state, there are limitations in using it, and it isnt the be-all-and-end-all of determining whether you are getting better, but it is still pretty interesting stuff and able to at least provide a bit of guidance as to your ability to macro. I know that after every game now i check my resource collection rate and average unspent resources because of reading this. you can set it all up in a spreadsheet so it is super user friendly - if you need a hand doing this PM me and i will help. I think that if a person was to input say 10-20 games worth of data every two weeks, there could only be an improvement in a player's ability to macro - and if it suddenly starts to drop, you can ask yourself why, but as opposed to other times (when you feel like crap and have no idea what is happening that is causing you to lose) you have some data at least.

I found taking a break from starcraft really reignited my desire to play. these days I want to play, i dont play because i feel that if i stop i will lose skill and mechanics and play even worse. If you are still feeling the same way in a week or two weeks, and the advice from these other good people doesnt help, post up here again and I will try again.

best of luck

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[lolwut]

Originally Posted by Xypha

Yeah, i definatly feel like im improving all of those areas, and im seeing the odd plat player being matched againts me.
i guess for me i don't tend to improve unless i'm playing someone i know is better then me, (feel like i have to step up to the plate, just motivates me more). so maybe im improving and go up in blizzards background rating so it places me againts progressively harder where i continue to win and then hit my wall where i level back out to 50%, ( well i hope thats whats happening and im just not backstepping to old spot)

If there are any Plat/Diamond players who are willing to give me a 1v1 every now and then let me know, i think that would greatly improve my play

I could play against you. lolwut/901 plat/diamond level zerg. I can play all races at platnuim level though

[zealous]

whats the diff between gold player with 100 wins with a gold player with 1500 wins?

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by zealous

whats the diff between gold player with 100 wins with a gold player with 1500 wins?

1400 wins!

... Honestly though I'm not sure what you're asking here.

[nirvAnA]

the difference would be learning attitude, the person with 1,500 games doesn't have the right one, or probably just doesnt know any better. For e.g he probably doesn't know of sc2sea or gsl or tl or youtube VODs, forums, or anything that could improve his game. hes just cut off in his own world doing everything wrong or learning at a very slow rate.

or perhaps he was previously a portrait farmer!

[mGMUSE]

Originally Posted by PanDMonium

So, I had been struggling to get out of silver for months now. Watching replays, playing when I can, paying for guides and coaches. Today when I played for my season 4 placement, I got demoted all the way back down to rank 75, when before I was rank 10. I'm beginning to wonder if there's not just something wrong with me as a person that is inherently incapable of being good at this game.

After 500 wins, and working on my mechanics, I can confidently say that I don't generally loose to not building enough drones. I loose to shit like phoenixes picking off all my overlords, rows of stalkers I can't kill no matter how many zerglings and upgrades I get. I've played against zergs that consistently get more shit out and have a stronger economy no matter how much I try to only build units when I scout an attack or tech switch. I die to marine spam, no matter how many fungals, or banelings, or mutas I make.

I'm not getting utterly rolled over. I'm just not winning. I don't know what to do. I feel terrible for dedicating so much time to something and never seeing any improvement. I hear that there are little kids that make it into masters league, and it makes me feel like I may be developing some kind of inferiority complex.

i would like to try and help you, add me on skype mgmuse

btw for the people in lower leagues, dont give up, dont spam games either, if i used the same level of analysis(of both in-game issues and psychological issues) of my games now as i did in lower leagues i would have jumped from silver league to grandmasters in 50 games.. not kidding.

now i'm lazy to type, but it's all about learning properly

[dippa]

The dreaded skill cap.

I hit a plateau about four or so months ago around the Masters level so I bought some coaching in a bid to try and help me breach the gap. I've never been particularly good at analysis; I watch replays, but I'm poor at learning from my mistakes. On top of that, my mechanics are good up to a certain point, but my SCV production slips in fights (although my unit production has improved a little) and my army movement is non-existent.

Still, I managed to scrounge some wins here and there and after taking a week off work, I got into GM around Grandmaster. I reached about 130th, which was good, but then I went on a losing streak, which kind of pissed me off.

That streak ended up damaging my MMR to a point where I couldn't recover it until towards the end of season 4, where GM was full and I couldn't get back in anyway. I played 460 ladder games in season 4 (not including customs) - that's nearly 8 games on average a day - but I couldn't tell you where exactly I improved.

Sure, I was able to pick up some wins here and there: I got a couple of good wins in the CO's, won some games in practice against Pinder and picked off a game against Deth ( proxy rax/factory), but this was more down to their mistakes than mine if I'm being brutally honest.

I'd hit as big a brick wall as you could possibly imagine. I had no capacity to beat Zerg in a standard game, let alone how to play out a standard game in my head (despite watching replays upon replays upon replays). Protoss I felt comfortable against - thanks largely to Pinder, Light and Champi, who were happy enough to smash me repeatedly in practice - and Terran was, well, mixed; some weeks I'd have a 60-75% win ratio, other weeks it would drop to 30% or less.

Still, I'm keeping my spirits up. My record's looking GM worthy for season 5, partially thanks to a couple of people bombing their MMR and a little win streak of my own. I beat Jerry the other day, which I'm really proud of: not only because he's a decent Zerg, but because he's someone who I lost to before in the Masters Cup (a series that I thought to myself, how on earth can I possibly win) and because I used a style that was completely out of the norm for me.

I've gotten other wins, but the reason why I'm highlighting Jerry is because it's those little battles that you have to identify and target to keep yourself going. Everything isn't going to just suddenly come together. SC2 requires a long, hard slog. It's always going to be a difficult game if you're always looking to improve.

Rather than picturing a wall and breaking it down, perhaps a more apt metaphor would be to imagine climbing over the wall instead, moving up one step at a time, occasionally losing your grip on the coarse bricks before finally reaching the summit.

[iM yang]

As people on TS can confirm I often have bouts of great confusion in a certain matchup, having no idea how I am supposed to take wins off people. It just rotates around for me, used to be PvZ then PvT and now phoenix is PvP.
You just have to know what you want to learn whether it be standard TvZ or ZvP and just obsess over what you want to learn. Read teamliquid, watch stream VODs, ask people you know, bug random people who are better than you (I bug pig and glade a LOT over pvz).

What is especially helpful is if you can find somebody of your race who streams and commentates, pig is a great example. I'm constantly surprised how much I learn from Axslav's stream.

Not sure if that helps anyone but hopefully so.

Quick Comments

Eldrid:

you deserve +10 rep points just for articulating "obsess over what you want to learn" +1

[TASlowHands]

Originally Posted by SQLTt.HuT

Everybody does it, they wake up, ready for a day packed of 1v1's and the idea that they'll add a few hundred points onto their ladder score. But, after you lose 3 in a row, all the while using strategies that you have utilised that have been successful in the past all seem worthless now.

As a question to the general populace of these forums, when you hit a barrier, whether it be psychological or skill based that negatively impacts your gameplan and ability to win games you have won in the same manner before, how do you work to overcome it? Do you stick to the same strategy and try to refine it, or do you decide that a build or tactic is obsolete and forget it all together?

Share your views!

I always try and stick with my strats, i had a roach hydra corruptor build in ZvP which had me at more than 70% at one point around the mid diamond level. I only drops strats when they are outright unviable, i dropped roach hydra corruptor as masters toss for the most part tear it up.

I believe so long as you are a decent player mechanically you can do any strategy, thats why I am very harsh on myself even when i win at times, for example i decide to 2 base all in but have 3 missed injects at the end of the game, I scold myself. The only barrier I hit are mechanically not strategically because im pretty flexible and good at altering my builds. I only really feel happy with a win when i play a bit better than my average, apm soaring, creep everywhere and the like. But really it all comes down to mechanics and good old fashioned practise

Op I think you would benefit from having practise partners that are better than you. I often play with TAsolid who has crazy good TvZ and it always pushes me apm and mechanic wise playing him and I can actually feel myself getting better, even if I lose. Try and find someone that is just that little bit better than you and get them to give you a real challenge. The problem with just ladder is you play the same level of opponents struggling with the same issues as you.

[zealous]

Originally Posted by Maynarde

1400 wins!

... Honestly though I'm not sure what you're asking here.

lol

i mean i have a friend who has much more ladder games than i am, but were both gold, can I say hes better because he has more ladder experience?

[MazEi]

Well if he played those extra games by 6 pooling/canon rushing/6 rax, then maybe not. But regardless, I think he would be more comfortable with the game compared to someone who's just played 5 games.

[ToRXypha]

Forgot all about this thread made it so long ago, back when i was in gold. yesterday i was promoted to Masters so i'd be safe to say i have come along way in improvement. next goal is GM

[framtidenskrig]

Originally Posted by ToRXypha

Forgot all about this thread made it so long ago, back when i was in gold. yesterday i was promoted to Masters so i'd be safe to say i have come along way in improvement. next goal is GM

Congratz man! Good luck with GM!

[framtidenskrig]

Originally Posted by OxygeN

There are of course both quantitative, and qualitative factors to knowing if your improving, and to quickly go through some of them,

Quantitative :
Higher win-rate.
Utilize most of your resources.
Building the counters to your opponent unit mix
Building sufficient production structures.

Qualitative :
You feel more confident vs a specific match-up,
Positioning your units better, (eg. maruders around marines, roaches infront of hydras)
Doing more harassment.
Losing less from harassment.

Hope this helps!

+1, well played

[studmuffin]

I just decided to start playing SC2 after owning it for a year, and i got the manual you have here. I'd like to be G1, but having to work all day, plus having other hobbies (like guitar), don't know if can be anything other than g2; however, hopefully with enough effort I can get good enough to not embarrassing

[Kairobot]

My brother doesn't play often, only like 2 ladder games each day and maybe a couple more on weekends but he got his 100 wins in 1v1 quite quickly and am already promoted from Silver to Bronze in a short time. I play less 1v1 and more team games and my learning is much slower compared to my brother who just mainly play 1v1, so all in all more laddering in 1v1 is a must if want to improve quicker.

[jtxgaming]

Originally Posted by Kairobot

he got his 100 wins in 1v1 quite quickly and am already promoted from Silver to Bronze in a short time.

Just wanted to say, silver to bronze is demotion <
But 1v1 seems to be the best way to improve imo, custom games help if you want to practise new builds and ladder for implementing those builds.

[Rage]

Originally Posted by studmuffin

I just decided to start playing SC2 after owning it for a year, and i got the manual you have here. I'd like to be G1, but having to work all day, plus having other hobbies (like guitar), don't know if can be anything other than g2; however, hopefully with enough effort I can get good enough to not embarrassing

Group 1 learning as Nirvana described it actually takes less actual time than Group 2 - you can play 5 games a day, spend 10 mins on the replay of each game, and get more benefit than playing 20 games for 5 hours without close analysis.

[x5.Stormz]

Originally Posted by FaNaTic

2 Thumbs UP for this article, enjoyed reading it thoroughly
Starcraft 2 - Secrets of the Masters

Kudos to all the pro gamers out there, they are the motivation & inspiration for the SC2 community

Just had a quick look at this guide. There goes my night of starcraft!

[zealous]

In line with nirvana's grp#1 learning as I have recalled in one seminar I attended highlights reflection as an important but neglected step in the process. Its not just about the "Do/Experience" its about what you will do after the experience