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Unread Sat, 26th-Mar-2011, 8:17 PM BnetId: CKid.519  Race: Location: NSW, Australia  Total Posts Made: 58 # 1
CagnacciKid
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[T] Trouble with Improving

Another week, another thread of pleading for help... oh well.

Basically, I know my early game macro is good - nothing special, but solid nonetheless (I've been told it's Gold/Platinum level). I run with a 3 Rax, MM Stim Push in every match-up. My problems start if my push is repelled, or worse, destroyed. I have no idea what to do (other than get Medivacs for MMM), my macro falls to bits, my army size suffers and my economy barely scrapes by. 9 time out of 10 this results in me getting harassed to death, or steamrollered by a 200/200 army while mine is lucky to be 150/200. I've watched my replays and have concluded these are the things I need to work on:

Scouting
Mid and Late Game Macro
Expanding
Dealing with drops

If these four areas could be improved, I could probably make high-Silver or even Gold. But in-game, I just can't wrap my head around scouting properly, expanding correctly and macro-ing past the first ten minutes. Trying to focus on them usually results in another aspect or more of my game slipping. So, what should I do to improve these problematic areas?

On a similar note, should I use different builds in certain match ups? For example, in TvT, the popular 1 Rax Fact build almost always beats my opener due to the early Siege Tanks. Should I just try to out-macro my opponent, or use a different opener myself?

Could write more about each individual area I'm having trouble with, but I might do that later (with associated replays) as this thread might get one lone reply from a troll saying "tl;dr".

Cheers.
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Unread Sat, 26th-Mar-2011, 9:14 PM BnetId: sKyAU.570  Race: Location: Sydney, Australia  Total Posts Made: 461 # 2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CagnacciKid View Post
I run with a 3 Rax, MM Stim Push in every match-up. My problems start if my push is repelled, or worse, destroyed.
That sounds about right. Your build order for ALL match ups are all-ins basically. My tip? Change your build orders. Theres no point worrying about your macro game, or anything after that, when you had nothing to follow it up.

If you failed your first push, what then?? << You should think about that. Anyway, chances are, if they killed your first push, they'll kill any corresponding second/third pushes. So that leaves you to expand? No. If you expand, they'll just kill you. On top of less army, you just wasted 400 minerals on getting further behind for x seconds which makes a final push from the opponent sure-win, unless you pull off something amazhingz.

nirvana Note: your infraction is not for this post. it is for abusing "like post" system and trolling hard by giving skybreaker thumbs down on all his posts. this is a 3 day temp ban from the forums and a life time ban from the voting system. future immature beahviour will result in a permenant ban from the site like mancannon/zan
User has received an infraction for this post. Accumulation of points pass a certain number will result in automatic bans.
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Unread Sat, 26th-Mar-2011, 10:17 PM BnetId: Cordance 485  BattleTag: Cordance 1199  Race: Location: Adelaide  Total Posts Made: 181 # 3
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In short mix up your build. If you want to become a better player you need to do more than one build. Given this is a build you are probably comfortable with keep it. How ever explore other tech paths, particularly ones that beat your build. Learn their strengths and weakness. Learn how these builds can be strung together into something which has multiple transitions.
Having several paths for your build(s) your scouting can actually be put to use. There is no point knowing something is going to happen if you dont react to what is happening.
At this point you will have tech paths that require amounts of resources, this will drive your need to expand. It will tie in with your scouting and understanding of other peoples builds for when it is safe to do.
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Unread Sat, 26th-Mar-2011, 10:51 PM BnetId: cruxis.312  Race: Location: Blue Mountains  Total Posts Made: 465 # 4
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Yeah, changing builds is great. I decided one night just to go hatch first all night. And i took a lot of beatings, but I finally worked it out. Now it's increased my other builds and my general mechanics.
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Unread Sun, 27th-Mar-2011, 3:00 AM BnetId: Canx.951  Race: Location: Singapore  Total Posts Made: 36 # 5
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I actually used 1 BO for the entire 120 games it took me to go from gold to diamond. This was after reading an early interview with Idra who responded to criticisms that he was too predictable. He said that a good build-order (with proper transitions and a viable strategy) is what noobs like me have to work on. Once we are able to execute the build precisely under all conditions, we can branch out. I feel that this advice was really good as I did not proxy or all-in in all my games, and I think this actually helped with my mechanics. Thus, I would suggest using iEchoic's 2fact2port TvT build [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...pic_id=189624], iEchoic's hellion drop to 2-port TvP build [http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...(vs._Protoss)], and the 1fact hellion for TvZ[http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft...on_(vs._Zerg)].
Good luck
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Unread Sun, 27th-Mar-2011, 8:43 AM BnetId: CKid.519  Race: Location: NSW, Australia  Total Posts Made: 58 # 6
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Thanks for the responses guys, particularly Aean, that has to be the most constructive reply you've given me, haha.

I'm changing my build orders, going for Siege Expand for TvT and TvZ (early Hellion for TvZ), and I'm experimenting with a 2 Rax Expand in TvP, which has won me two games so far (had a Bo3 against Spartaz). I might write a bit more about each of my problematic game aspects.

Scouting:

The most obvious one, I do scout early game with my SCV, but after that it's generally limited to the odd Scanner Sweep. It's not so much that I fail to remember to scout, more the fact that I don't know how to scout effectively. Running a worker or Marine up my opponents ramp (or into his expo) generally gets the poor fellow one-shotted and I gain very little intelligence from it. I don't use Scans liberally as I'm usually using my OC energy on Mules. What other methods can I use to scout properly?

Expanding:

Really just a matter of WHEN should I expand. My new openers have clearly defined expansion to my obvious natural in the build order, but if the game goes long enough to need more expansions, when should I take my 3rd, 4th, etc. bases? How many expansions should I have up and running at once? In a similar vein, when should I take a gold expansion?

Mid and Late Game Macro:

My most serious shortcoming. I suffer from intermittently idle buildings, supply blocks and under-saturated resources. Through practice I can probably work out these kinks, as they are just a matter of my multitasking being tested. But I need advice on how many production buildings to make, how frequently I should be building Depots, when I should tech up to Thors/BC's/upgrades, when to go on the offensive, etc.

Dealing with Drops:

And a recent development, Colossi/Blink Stalkers munching on my main. Static defences are okay but require a lot of resource input. On the other hand, I can move my army back into my base but this takes time, and I take losses. How can I deter drops on my base/expansions without moving my army away from it's position (usually at my most dangerous expo)?

This also covers using drops myself. How many Medivacs should I fill up? Where's the best place to attack? Should I even bother, or just make a massive army and charge down their front door?

Cheers.
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Unread Mon, 28th-Mar-2011, 6:13 PM BnetId: SkyBreaker.895  Race: Location: Melbourne, Australia  Total Posts Made: 431 # 7
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Judging from what you wrote; it sounds like you've got the "build-order food check-list syndrome"; wherein you'll follow your build order down a tee game after game; yet don't know how to react when you're thrown off (i.e. early harass) or it fails (when your 3rax gets repelled).

Have a look around here and TL for a solid, safe opener as T against the three races; then put those builds into practice and refine from there. Sure you might lose a few games as you're learning the new openers, however in the long run it'll prove much more beneficial to your learning as you'll learn how to re-act to an array of situations that may be thrown your way.

Also, get into the habit of watching through your replays (specifically losses) to identify where you went wrong and what you could improve on. There's a great thread on TL (under the SC2 strategy sub-forum) which outlines how to thoroughly review your own replay; which should help a lot more than any amount of theory-crafting could.

More importantly, glhfgg.
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Unread Fri, 1st-Apr-2011, 4:57 PM BnetId: Ivan.448  Race: Location: Singapore, Singapore  Total Posts Made: 165 # 8
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I guess goal setting is kinda impt - it determines the builds that you'll execute. For me, after watching day9, it was to focus on macro and mechanics. So now, on the advice of day9 to stick to one build and perfect it, I always 1 rax (w/ 2 supply depot), FE, transition to 3 more rax (because I got sick of rushes and you can barely support all of that one one base) and take a third on the 11th minute (or thereabouts) on MMM.

That build really improved my macro. I can max out by the 15th minute and sit on a strong position or just keep on rallying units to kill my opponent. I mean it even works on plat players, so it must mean something. Thanks to day9!
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