[PantlessPete]

So I've been struggling with ZvP lately, but way more so when we spawn close positions. I won't bitch and moan, it's a part of the game and I'll deal with it. I feel that taking a 3rd is really hard to do, because you must do so further away than usual and then one of two things happens:

1) Toss attacks your natural, and 1/3 of your defenders have to run a LONG way to come join the fight.
2) Toss attacks your third, and it is woefully undefended, basically giving him 300 free minerals (plus whatever queen/drones you had there).

So what I've been trying to do is a 2base timing attack with roaches. I've been getting burrow/tunneling claws/+1 attack and throwing roaches at his defenses. But it seems that with a few cannons he doesn't care about my army in the slightest and just crushes it. The only success I have had was when the toss played super greedy and didn't get any cannons or observers, and was getting colossus as fast as he could.

What do other zergies do in close positions? Allin, cheese, try and play macro?

P.S. Here's an example of one of my games recently (yes my macro sucks, I've only just come back for the start of season 3 after a rather long period of being seriously ill)
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=390

[SLCN.Kez]

I havnt watched the replay but if you said you macro sucks then i would be pretty convinced that is the problem in the first place, as you can do any unit composition and any strategy but if your opponent just has twice as much shit it wont make any difference. However, in close spawns against toss i like to open 14 gas 14 pool, make 8 lings, mineral walk 2 drones through his zealot, then attack with the drones and lings, killing the zealot, then ur lings get speed and you run around his base scouting and killing off probes whenever you can, whilst doing this drone and expand as normal (around 21 or 22 food), then build roaches and go for roach/ling all in depending on what you scout him doing, and you will definitely be able to scout as your lings should still be alive in his base till atleast 6-6:30 mins assuming you can micro half efficiently. Good luck

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Avelestar

So I've been struggling with ZvP lately, but way more so when we spawn close positions. I won't bitch and moan, it's a part of the game and I'll deal with it. I feel that taking a 3rd is really hard to do, because you must do so further away than usual and then one of two things happens:

1) Toss attacks your natural, and 1/3 of your defenders have to run a LONG way to come join the fight.
2) Toss attacks your third, and it is woefully undefended, basically giving him 300 free minerals (plus whatever queen/drones you had there).

So what I've been trying to do is a 2base timing attack with roaches. I've been getting burrow/tunneling claws/+1 attack and throwing roaches at his defenses. But it seems that with a few cannons he doesn't care about my army in the slightest and just crushes it. The only success I have had was when the toss played super greedy and didn't get any cannons or observers, and was getting colossus as fast as he could.

What do other zergies do in close positions? Allin, cheese, try and play macro?

P.S. Here's an example of one of my games recently (yes my macro sucks, I've only just come back for the start of season 3 after a rather long period of being seriously ill)
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=390

I have watched the replay. For me, macro and micro were good enough, that's not the reason you lost, that's really a strategic defeat. Besides, you have probably the level to be able to see your own mechanism little mistakes, there is no interest that I point them out.

Burrowed roaches are dreadful against if he doesn't get detection, but as you say, as soon as there is Cannons and/or obs, that doesn't work anymore. Then, if your going with this strat, and more over if you make 4 preventive spine crawlers as you did, as soon as you see that you're not going to surprise your opponent because he has Forge / Obs, you should transition to macro (3rd then 4th) and tech immediately to infestors while you contain him with your Roaches.

Why this is possible and a good thing to do:

• Your Roach force cannot battle in the narrow corridors of his base where FF are the death of your army and full of cannons that detect your roachs, but in the middle of the map (and especially on a map like Shattered Temple where the center is so open), there is no cannons, FF are less effective, and he cannot beat your Roach, especially since you have a huge creep spreading skill.
• As often in battle strategy (from real war to chess and passing by SC2 and Go) the center of the field is a major key of the battle. The Xelnaga at the center of the field allow you to :
  • Control the route to your 3rd, 4rth, Gold 5th, 6 th (behind rocks)
  • Deny expansion for him south (too exposed if you have the center of the battle field). So basically he can't take a 3rd or make ballsy move trying to take the gold between your positions or the expand north behind the rocks.
  • If you put your army and rally point exactly where you put your roach army at the end, somewhere between the entrance of your natural corridor and the Xelnaga and your wall of spine crawlers where you have put them in the end, you can safely protect your natural and your expands and have secure rally point from all your hatches.
• Infestor are your only chance IMO to deal with the future deathball that will eventually come to you. FG deals imbalancelly well with all gateway units, and Neural Parasite deal Overpowerlly ( again) well with Robo units and Archons. Only Storm Templar will really be hard to deal with. But on 2 bases, it will be hard to have Robo tech line and Templar tech line.

In conclusion
If you don't All In, you should have a transition plan to macro and tech route and this transition plans is allowed by analysis of how you can exploit your strengh to control each special battle field and especially the center.