[NDG.Stitch]

Hi guys, I'm a usual guy who asks lots of tips for terran because I obviously started at a very awkward spot for SC, with no past experirence of Broodwar or WC3 (only playing DotA) so to me, macro has been a tough thing to go with.

So heading on to the topic that I want to ask you successful terrans out there. What's the mindset when you approach a game. My mindset is always, cheese first 7 mins to gain some huge advantage and win. (Obviously this has only taken me to diamond as I am finding it harder and harder to cheese in higher leagues) Right now I'm always practicing my macro game. But the thing is I can't open a very solid way. So what is the mindset for a Terran against zergs, protoss's or even itself? How do you guys open up a game? And what should be the mindset of a good terran? Cause for zerg, I'm always feeling I gotta do some cheesey harass so I won't stay behind since zergs can drone up so fast. I really wanna find out a good way to play Terran the correct style!!!! :P

For me, when I play zerg and let them macro, I automatically lose. Because I find that it's so hard to secure an expansion solidly, so that's why I always open with hellions or 2rax.

Against Toss, its a 50-50... Sometimes I macro, but sometimes I have to do really early pressure against them. Because i feel like if I hit him at 200-200, there is such a big chance I'd lose compared to the toss.

Against Terran, I feel like I absolutely HAVE to harass at the beginning. But even when I get the harass done, I still fall behind quick because I don't know how to keep the pressure on the Terran.

Ofc, I'm not perfect at either cheese or macro yet, But i hope you guys can help me out

[Next_rim]

Go learn 1-rax CC opening from liquipedia. Basically, you get 1 rax, get some marines, then rush a CC, expand behind bunkers, then add 4-5 more rax and get a huge ball of bio by 11 min mark. You don't have to do damage early game.

Also download some QXC, Thorzane, Bomber, MVP, MMA, Strelok or Boxer replays. They are some of the best terrans out there, start by copying their builds. Keep in mind that the game is much more complicated than Dota. Dota vs SC is like rock-paper-scissors vs chess. Those builds you will see have very specific reasons behind every action and timing.

Don't rush every game. There are different ways to secure advantage. It's either macro, tech or by doing damage. Macro is the strongest, while tech and harass are designed to bring you back into game if you slip on macro. And if you do chose to do damage, it doesn't have to be early. There is something called timing push (9-14 mins into the game), that takes advantages of the weaknesses in your opp's build.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Make something work for you in the midgame or earlygame. You don't need to harass but you do need some sort of pressure. Terran excels at keeping their army spread out when they fight, as opposed to Protoss which keeps it as one huge ball and Zerg who is incredibly mobile and defensive, and with a large amount of interesting timing attacks and playstyles.

There are times when you have to play more passively, but generally you need to get some attack going at some point.

EDIT- Responding sort of to the poster above me, no, I disagree that 1 rax gasless FE is the way to play every matchup. I really think that if you open it against zerg and protoss who scout it sufficiently quickly then you have to be extremely concerned about players who have good all in builds worked out, and if you open gasless on a map with close positions then you are behind.

[Aean(:]

As terran you want to play harassive.
TvZ: Constantly drop to relieve muta pressure / force them to stay in-base. If they're ready for it, dont drop randomly, your doing good enough by forcing them to stay in base. Expand. Its also a good idea to drop the opposite way your attacking. Since all their attention is forced to your main army, they wont suspect the side drop and it will be likely to do damage. Possibly engage (do it effectively! this is the hardest part in TvZ) or take out a base and then fall back, expand, macro. This is how i play TvZ atm, im not the best, but it works for me.

TvT: I open reactored hellions with a quick viking followed by expansion. Constantly poke around their front, it forces their banshee to attack them and then you can establish a location for you to start poking with the viking. If they are doing a quick expand, i'd make a few more hellions + medivac after the viking and go for a drop / two pronged attack. If they are doing a timing push, threaten to runby their base with your hellions, it'll keep you alive. Ofcourse this is only for the reactored hellions > viking build. TvT generally consists of tanks and viking for positioning while dropping their bases (if possible). You never want to a rush a TvT. If you establish a good position, expand. You cant just go for the kill in TvT, its a dragged out matchup.

TvP: I feel this is the easiest matchup for me. Marine/Marauder/Medivac early game to establish map control. From then you read your opponents composition and the occasional drop/scan to see their tech path. Colossi? Try to get random shots with your vikings, putting its hp down is good. HT? Ghost, if you cant micro your emp's.. its going to be hard to win. I dont know.. i cant say much here. I find it so straight forward.. emp their stuff. stim 1a attack gg ezmode. -_-

Quick Comments

Paroxysm:

Well said!

[Next_rim]

Responding sort of to the poster above me, no, I disagree that 1 rax gasless FE is the way to play every matchup. I really think that if you open it against zerg and protoss who scout it sufficiently quickly then you have to be extremely concerned about players who have good all in builds worked out, and if you open gasless on a map with close positions then you are behind.

Fair enough, but OP can always try 2rax cc or 3rax pressure into cc. Same idea, just juggling with amount of offense and defense capabilities in favor of stronger econ later.

[ROOT`iaguz]

There are a lot of ways to play Terran. For example, someone like Major, Yoon or Select, they like to open sort of aggressively and if they get some sort of advantage from it they are really good at aggressively adding on advantages. More poking, more aggressive positioning and flat out killing opponent's shit. And that's a good way to play.

Alternatively you can play passive styles based around doing some pressure early and focusing on getting a well timed 3rd, not dying to any aggression and using some factor to smash your opponent, like Ghosts vs protoss, or a huge tank count vs Zerg.

And the third is timing attack focused, where you decide before the game that you're going to marine/tank/banshee a protoss, or double reactor hellion a Zerg, or Blue Flame drop + Cloaked banshee vs a Terran, or some kind of planned out mech timing vs a Zerg. This style is heavily reliant on doing major damage when the timing hits. This isn't to say it doesn't have a next step, but said step is reliant on the opening getting something done.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Very interesting categorisation of Terran strategies

[NDG.Stitch]

iaguz, for One Rax Expo against zerg, i've been having troubles. Should I keep my CC in my main until I get tanks? Or should I just bunker up? Because whenever I bunker up, I get heavily baneling busted. And if I do a late expo when i get tanks, I find that the zerg has pulled so far ahead of me in macro... This is just something I haven't been able to figure out through billions of tvz replays I've watched myself playing. Even though I'm constantly scving it up for like the first 10-13 mins, I'm still behind. And I can't find an opening where I can harass if I got 1 rax FE.

Yea, SeleCT is one of my favorite terrans to watch (Same with Yoon) because they just add so much pressure and they control their units so well. That's generally the type of player I am, but of course I just can't execute it even near their way of playing. And I feel like I should be working on being a decent macro passive terran before I be so agressive with no Plan B. Also in a tvz, i feel like when my first push gets wiped (usually with 3 tanks, 2 medivacs and around 20 marines) at 10 mins, I like lose the game so quick from that. I just find it hard when I can't drop because zerg's got map control and I can't push straight through cause he just has too many lings. in TvP I generally am okay with being passive, but yea, as Aean pointed out, if you can't get the macro down, you're pretty much screwed. Which is always the crisis I'm facing against a Protoss. It's either HT's or Colo or both lol. I always seem to stick on one build, either Vikings or Ghosts but sometimes I just feel like I'm always insecure with my bases. Which really bothers me, becuase I know good terrans can control their game in a solid way, and I just don't get how the pace of Terran works...

[Nemo]

@StitchStarcraft, It might help if you posted replays showing situations where you think your strat choice was not good and you don't know what you should have done differently (or want other points of view) IMO.

[ROOT`iaguz]

My advice is to not do that build vs Zerg. Loads of top terrans do not do 1 rax FE against Zerg because it is ******* bullshit. You rely on one out of three outcomes happening:

1) The Zerg finds out you're 1 rax fe-ing and prepares a vicious all in that almost certainly destroys you.
2) The Zerg finds out you're 1 rax fe-ing and drones and creep spreads way harder then you can deal with
3) The Zerg is a dumbshit and doesn't find out your're 1 rax feing and somehow you get ahead.

I have only one 1rax FE build in my arsenal and I will almost always only do it on crevasse where the front is extremely easy to defend (and on occasion Glade will bust it down and feast upon all my scvs. Dick.). You open 10/12/15 oc and expand. You add both gasses BEFORE you add the second depot. You can get 2 marines out before you have to start a factory and then a reactor on the rax. Switch 'em over. Now add a starport and crank out a banshee and a viking. Add your 3rd CC and additional gas and macro like a boss.

On occasion I'll do this build on a map like TDA or Typhon. If I do, I will only transfer scvs from main to natural as soon as I can confirm I'm not getting all-in'd or the attack will kill half my economy and still be worth it after the banshee cleans it up.

So don't do that opening. It's not worth it.

To answer your other question, replays required but there's a good chance you're just not microing your marines properly to deal with the ling/bane. Good marine splitting is very difficult but it's a critical skill for playing marine/tank/medivac vs Zerg so practice it.

An attack like you describe though, should only be done to punish a Zerg who takes his 3rd too quickly, otherwise there is no good window and you're just donating units. You can also tell that the attack won't work if you happen to see him making a macro hatch, as he'll have far too many units out and you cannot deal with it properly.

Terran midgame against Zerg midgame kinda varies based off of what the Zerg does. If he goes for ling/bane/muta then playing somewhat passively, making a huge amount of dudes and quickly and safely securing 3 or 4 bases is a very good way to play it. The ling/bane/muta army kinda sucks at the higher food battles, mostly relying on good backstabs and careless Terran unit control to win. But you have to keep on top of any potential infestor switch, and the main way to do that is to constantly scan his lair to see if it is now a hive, or to just keep an eye out on his unit compositions.

The best recent example I can think of this was NaDa vs the Zerg player in the GSTL match on thursday and kinda QXC vs the Zerg in tonights GSTL. Both play really refined, very solidly executed strategies that can be leveraged to punish a greedy zerg, get a good amount of pressure done early and expand. A lot. My personal favourite style against Glade and Jazbas which you can see in the recent Dox cup games.

If it's an infestor midgame then you need a huge tank count and things get really tricky. Pushing is a slog, and he'll bust out hive tech at any point. Plus fungal growth is a totally balanced and fun ability to play against. Only good thing is that you can clear out a lot of his scouting overlords with a single viking and be a huge dick with drops. Having a decent marauder count as well is probably not a bad idea since infestor/ling + good upgrades transitions well into ultralisks and marauders are the best unit against those. But the main thing is still securing a good amount of expansions and building such a huge tank count you invalidate his ground force.

[Nemo]

That's awesome. I should search all your 106 messages on this site to read them.

Originally Posted by iaguz

Plus fungal growth is a totally balanced and fun ability to play against.

Fun, that was the word I was searching.

Originally Posted by iaguz

Having a decent marauder count as well is probably not a bad idea since infestor/ling + good upgrades transitions well into ultralisks and marauders are the best unit against those.

I would add that infestors are armored units and Marauders do additional damages against them.

iaguz, what do you think of EMP against those big disgusting slugs ?

[ROOT`iaguz]

Haven't used them much. Last few weeks, pretty much every TvZ that gets to broodlord/infestor is either pretty much over or I'm playing against someone who doesn't know what an infestation pit is (MOONGLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADE!). Generally I have trouble remembering to add the ghosts in as I'm really strapped for cash remembering marines, tanks and upgrades as it is.

In general I just use tanks and eat it. Switching to ghost requires a lot of time and gas. Gas I could spend on tanks! Ghosts with moebius reactor and Cloaking, Cuz without those you'll never get an EMP off on infestors.

Also, infestors are ******* huge. Even when they clump it's tricky to emp enough of them unlike careless Templar. Grrrrrr