[SLCN.NXZ]

Hey guys,

So recently in zvz a lot of zergs have been favouring 14/14 baneling aggression on Daedalus. The reason for this being is that the ramp is so far from from the natural that queens aren't very helpful in the defence. The rush distance on the map is also very small making 9 pool ridiculously effective vs hatchery first. So we arrive at an interesting crossroad, hatch gas pool with ling bane pressure will demolish any other macro build but struggles a lot vs the 9 pool and has to either sacrifice the natural or just straight out lose vs 14/14. And then most zergs come out of it saying, well 14/14 obviously beats 9 pool, and has an advantage on the map vs hatch first so it's our best option.

However, I'd like to offer a slight moderation on the 14/14 which makes it much more effective against another 14/14 and I think in general. So here it is,

Drone to 10
Extractor trick up to 11
11 overlord
11 spawning pool
11 gas (this goes down about 5 seconds after a regular 14/14, get it straight after the drone otherwise his speed timing will be too much quicker)
14 queen
16 drone
17 overlord
Speed at 100 gas
Build zerglings
Baneling nest at 50 gas, pull 1 drone off gas if you want a more ling heavy army
Lings till 26 where you will make your next overlord

The strength here is that you rotate around the priorities of what you want with your attack. You get a quicker inject which means you'll have more lings out on the field as you morph your banes. This makes it very difficult for him to cancel the banes should he attempt it. Against another 14/14 he will have around 8-10 lings on the map when you already have your first inject of lings out which means you can take the initiative and fight him on your terms with the larger army. His speed will finish slightly earlier than yours but you will have the extra lings to survive those few seconds safely.

Obviously this build won't just win you the game but it puts you in a better situation than a 14/14 could. We're pretty much just trying to adjust our build to give us what we want, which in this case, is more lings quicker. Only do this build if you are going to do one base ling bane. If you intend to take an expand off speedlings you will not be able to afford it and 14/14 is the better option.

So this is how I like to play on Daedalus Point in ZvZ to get myself the advantage in ling bane wars, hope you enjoyed.

[Plottel]

Always love some fresh ZvZ builds, thanks for the write-up NXZ

Originally Posted by x5_NXZ

Only do this build if you are going to do one base ling bane. If you intend to take an expand off speedlings you will not be able to afford it and 14/14 is the better option.

Would you consider this to be an all-in then? It seems to directly counter a standard 14/14, but how does it fare against a pretty safe 15p 15/16h opening? (I have a feeling you'll run into an unpopulated base and demolish everything, just wanted to clarify from your experiences :P)

Also, how would one identify this build as the other player and how would you suggest defending if you went for a standard 14/14 yourself?

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by Plottel

Always love some fresh ZvZ builds, thanks for the write-up NXZ



Would you consider this to be an all-in then? It seems to directly counter a standard 14/14, but how does it fare against a pretty safe 15p 15/16h opening? (I have a feeling you'll run into an unpopulated base and demolish everything, just wanted to clarify from your experiences :P)

Also, how would one identify this build as the other player and how would you suggest defending if you went for a standard 14/14 yourself?

Yes it is an all in. It is just a slightly better version of 14/14 when it comes to this all in. So if your playing on this map you should do this build as it is just better than 14/14. Now generally you'd be right about hatch first and pool first working well against this build. But on Daedalus the queens cannot protect the spine or hatchery whilst holding the ramp. This means you can either kill the hatch and then play from there or engage the queens that have no support from a spine. If he brings his queens down the ramp you will runby and win the game.

On other maps 13/12 super fast ling bane allins are really the only option for this sort of play. Basically this build will only work vs capable players on this map, should they open standard.

[SLCN.Wally]

I've been doing
15 hatch
16 gas
16 pool because that's very nice vs 14/14. It's a little risky vs early pools but since 14/14 is so common, I rarely get early pooled on this map.

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by Snx.Wally

I've been doing
15 hatch
16 gas
16 pool because that's very nice vs 14/14. It's a little risky vs early pools but since 14/14 is so common, I rarely get early pooled on this map.

You will die to 9 pools but more importantly, you will always at least lose the hatchery to a good 14/14. The queens are integral to the defence in a normal game and on Daedalus they either sit on the ramp and do nothing and the hatchery dies or they come forward and let the ling bane runby.

[mGGDaedalus]

Been trying this a couple of times (execution still pretty rough) but everyone seems to hatch first vs me on Daedalus, so I've been losing. Is there any transition to macro vs a hatch first if I can't kill them, or do I have to just commit balls-to-the-wall on 1 base?

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by mGGDaedalus

Been trying this a couple of times (execution still pretty rough) but everyone seems to hatch first vs me on Daedalus, so I've been losing. Is there any transition to macro vs a hatch first if I can't kill them, or do I have to just commit balls-to-the-wall on 1 base?

You must at least kill his natural hatchery. If you kill their hatch and don't immediately win afterwards it means he has 2 queens on the ramp and ling speed and a bane nest finished. At that point you can't continue to all in him, you have to play a ling bane war off 1 base whilst sneaking in drones and an expo. You should have the advantage in the expansion timing, I'll have to play it some more to give more feedback though.