[ACL VaNzR]

Hi there SC2SEA folks!

I just want to post in here for your feedback. If you want to effect change into our LAN and online events in 2013, now is the time to have your voice heard. Please, read the thread below at ACL and post some feedback for the core management of ACL to review. 2013 can see a mass amount of change. It could be YOUR idea that gets implemented.

Here's the thread I posted on ACL:

........ (first few paras cut out)

Now, I am not going into detail in this thread about updates and developments, but I will promise you all some more direct communication between me and you, the gamers, moving forward. You should be kept in on the loop for my vision and of course then able to get behind it! For now though, this thread is very important to bring up some key feelings in the community about structure change for 2013.

Full thread here: http://www.aclpro.com.au/forums/topi...ture-feedback/

Thanks very much and I look forward to reading your feedback and ideas.

Cheers,

Vanz

--> The Summit venue in Brisbane: http://twitter.com/ACLVaNzR/status/270034574623535104

[nirvAnA]

Pasting the text here so you may get more responses.

+ [ACL 2013 Feedback] +

For those who have been loyal followers for a long time, I must say... I'm sorry for the lack of correspondence, but I am still here to help guide the growth of eSports here in Australia under the ACL banner. I've been focusing on building a few business relationships in the background and developing plans for growth in a rapidly changing marketplace. 2012 was a great year for ACL but there is still a lot of room to lift and improve in 2013. Expect bigger and better things moving forward.

Now, I am not going into detail in this thread about updates and developments, but I will promise you all some more direct communication between me and you, the gamers, moving forward. You should be kept in on the loop for my vision and of course then able to get behind it! For now though, this thread is very important to bring up some key feelings in the community about structure change for 2013.

Just further proof as to how serious I'm taking the plans for 2013. The first ever "ACLPro Summit" has been organised. I've flown to Brisbane, booked an apartment for a couple of nights, have flown Damien Cauci & Josh Inman up here as well, and am locking down 3 sessions of brainstorming and planning for ACL and our wider events company. Why Brisbane? Because JB Hewitt, owner of LanSmash in QLD is part owner of our wider events company and by default a vested interest partner in ACL. So, the 4 of us will be scrutinising in detail how to make ACL 'work' in 2013, in a growing competitive climate. We want the best for you guys, at the same time ensuring we don't go for broke . There are a lot of big deals on the table at the moment (small insight) but we must plan for a sustainable future, best and worst case scenarios.

[Crux of the thread starts below]

With that, we want to modify the structure for ACL in 2013. We have essentially run off an MLG modified structure developed by myself and Nick Houston since 2009. This has seen new iterations and adaptations for games like Fifa and SC2, but the overarching 'season' structure for ACL has been in effect for the past 3 years. That has meant 'year long seasons' with season points. For the first time, this could go out the window.... We are open for radical new structures and formats. We may run less events, we may run more events, we may split up our events by console and PC..... everything is up for review.

This will be your best bet to effect change, by posting your feedback in this thread so we can review.

As a guide, here's some questions to potentially address (answer what you can or want to):

• What has worked well in the past?
• What has NOT worked well in the past?
• What did you think of the points & seeding system?
• What would you think of a 'per event' qualifying system?
• What do you think would work well for competitive seeding in 2013
• What will best define the CHAMPIONS at the end of the year?

Hopefully that's a good starting point. The Summit starts tomorrow, so we will be looking through feedback as it comes through, though the sooner the better.

Thank you all!

Love eSports

What has worked well in the past?
The Streams / Media / Interviews are my favourite part of the events.

What did you think of the points & seeding system?
I think it can be tweaked to look at big SEA events outside of ACL to help determine rankings. i.e Work with masters cup maybe as a qualifier of some sort and ranked players get ACL points? And wT weeklies you get less? This way less duplication of tournaments and less taxing on the players + more integration with the SEA scene. Something like the MLG / DH global ranking maybe.

What will best define the CHAMPIONS at the end of the year?
Most fair would be by points/events won, but I think everyone would rather see a big explosive climatic final.

[fray`Alpha]

First off all the ACL events I went to this year were great and really enjoyed them.

My biggest complaint about acl would have to be the spectating areas, and more specifically the audio. Cant remember if you guys are keeping the sound proof booths from WCS? Which, if you are, will help alot. But either way this needs to be figured out. An area where people can sit and see (finding a good spot with small amount of glare on the projector or TV) and can hear the game and casters with out having to strain their ears. I find this spectating area important for both those who are playing, after andinbetween games, and those who come to watch pure as spectators (iv had a couple ppl come just to watch and have commented that they could barely see or hear any thing).

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

What did you think of the points & seeding system?
I think it can be tweaked to look at big SEA events outside of ACL to help determine rankings

this as well. to try and help with making sure we dont get too over saturated, be good to link tournaments together

Quick Comments

	NOM:	they are not soundproof
	Asrathiel:	Agree about spectating experience, esp sound

[iM SundeR]

Not sure if I like the idea of non-ACL events counting towards rankings / points in ACL.. if that's what you guys are getting at.

Doesn't make much sense.

Some top-end players can't commit to every single major tournament and if they really do contribute to ACL rankings then they are at a disadvantage.

Having ACL tournaments just for ACL points allows players to prioritize where they want to compete.

Quick Comments

Zepph:

yup

[syfChadMann]

ACL Sydney had the best qualifying process - please reproduce that. Other than that - everything has been running fine!

Quick Comments

iM SundeR:

if this was the one with the series of online qualifiers as well as regionals.. i agree!

[ToR.Arnor]

What has worked well in the past?
The Production Quality for the events has been Amazing
ACL Sydney was run really really well from the qualifiers to the event (there were some scheduling issues on the day though)

What has NOT worked well in the past?
*Downtime between games on stream is something to work on
*Communication and the lead up to ACL Melbourne was not fantastic, something to improve on
*I believe the qualifier stage where people could choose between the online or the regional severely affected the attendance of the regional.
What did you think of the points & seeding system?
*Its an interesting system, I do believe regional events should be weighted higher for people living in cities with regionals
*there is also the issue of some cities being alot stronger than others (NSW and QLD are stronger than VIC and SA or instance) perhaps it would be simplier not to have regional events or regional events to just be side events that add towards Yearly Totals but not the seasons Total?

What do you think would work well for competitive seeding in 2013
its a fairly good system as is, however if regionals are going to count then we need to weight States accordingly (look at the WCS Model, more seeds were given to Asia compared to Oceania)

What will best define the CHAMPIONS at the end of the year?

Either Top 4 for all seasonal events compete in a bracket or top X points for career points compete in a bracket.

[UHF]

I can only comment as an online spectator & someone who was trying to follow the ACL scene over the year. There are good things to say about ACL, however I'll solely focus on the negatives as that's where the improvement is going to come from. I'm sorry if I come off a little vague at times, but if i go into detail I'll probably spend all night here.

Solidarity from start to finish
A year is a long time, and sometimes things need to be changed. Personally, I admire the tournaments/leagues that stick to their formats for the whole season - it gives off the feeling of stability and makes it much easier to follow. I'd like to see a standard qualification process, a standard group or bracket system, and standard equality through all the events through-out the year.

Trim the fat, focus on the core
The system ACL uses probably isn't that complex once you learn it, however i still couldn't explain it if asked. I still don't fully understand how everything works (perhaps that's my own fault!). The points system is interesting and it's something players can have beside their name as a quasi-prize for being loyal and showing attendance. However if it's kept, I think it should be slim-lined and made readily available on a webpage that tells everyone what it is and what it means looking forward.

Be clear, communicate with us
I think the EB Expo is the perfect example of confusion and bad communication. I remember sitting the chat amongst others on the day of the tournament and no one had a clue what was going on. It was only from the tweets of GTR that we were getting information relayed to us. We had no schedule, no idea on prize pools, no idea if a stream was even coming up, results - you get the idea. (It eventually was being relayed officially, but really late in the tournament).

It wasn't just that event either - many times I'm sifting through multiple threads or webpages to find all the details I need to know or receiving second-hand information (it makes it hard with multiple announcement threads, sign-ups threads, X other threads and web pages). I think having a concise, easily readible and easily accessible overview of the event in a single location would go a long way.

Make it a better experience for the players & the admin
From what I've seen there seems to be a real struggle with time at ACL events. I think anything you do that reduces the long grind into the night is going to be appreciated by both the players and the admin. I'm not sure how you fix this, it's probably a multitude of small things.

Improve the stream
I don't think the stream necessarily is bad, however it has a lot to compete against and does need some work.

1. Quality of video and audio needs to be priority - anything other than perfect isn't good enough for the majority of viewers (especially international that are hard to get in the first place).
2. Choice of resolution - can't really remember all the events but i have seen complaints about this
3. Downtime - another thing that viewers are getting more and more vocal about. I remember watching the Sydney event, where 'Next game in 5 minutes' actually turned out to be 30+ minutes. Interviews and roaming cams are fantastic, but you can only do so much before viewers start leaving due to lack of games.

Marketing and exposure
This needs some serious work. ACL Melbourne was a disaster, with the Team Liquid thread going up mid-way through the first day of the event (IIRC). Even WCS was all over the place with multiple threads splitting the overall interest. Reddit should also be utilised a lot more, as when I checked last time there was a total lack of ACL there.

Content
Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but it feels like there is lack of overall content being produced for ACL. There is a few things here and there, but no one is really putting in the effort to get the event in the faces of the community. How many times have you heard the big name personalities say "we just don't hear about what happens down there in SEA/Australia".
At one point I tried to play a small part by producing the statistic infographics, but it was so hard to find all the information I needed that it became a real burden to make them (i spend more time annoying Dox for information then producing the content).

A dissappointing end to the year...
Note: I apologise if this comes off a big 'whingy'

I thought GESC would take the most disappointing event of the year, but EB Expo takes the wooden spoon from me. Honestly, I can get past all the struggles you guys had at the event, however I can't say the same for the format and how it was portraited. At one point I was considering attending the ACL Nationals over the WCS event, that's how big I though it was going to be.

I thought you'd be showcasing the best players from over the year in one final bang of a tournament. I thought those super important points the players had earned over the year would finally give players a reward for their dedication, time and money spent - turns out I was totally wrong. I also thought there would be some sort of ceremony to crown the 2012 ACL Champion - if there was, I missed it.

I read this shortly after the event, and I think the following pretty much sums it up:

"Your ACL australian circuit champion for this year, walking away with... nothing... is moonglade! And this guy who has had no real showing in acl before this but got fourth at the eb games expo gets a free trip overseas! Thanks for coming to the national circuit finals!"

EDIT: Just to clarify - I totally understand that technical issues are hard to avoid sometimes. I tried to specifically move around that subject when i wrote this and write purely from the perspective of a spectator that wouldn't be privy to secondhand information.

Quick Comments

	Zepph:	EB expo's disorganisation had literally nothing to do with the people running the tournament (: just fyi
	NOM:	I agree 100%

[ACL VaNzR]

This is fabulous stuff, and indeed some very serious things we need to look into. For some of the things UHF posted, there are indeed some reasons behind various courses of action/inaction, and I feel I would like to address some of these in the near future, perhaps in a video blog.

For now though, keep the feedback coming guys. We're listening and taking notes!

[breadfan]

I think everyone has nailed the big issues for me, I'll echo what I think are the core issues, which I hope is still valuable

- Spectator area could use some big improvement (this wasz improved throughout the year and I guess depending a lot on venue, but audience able to hear casters would be great. I think this could have been done somehow at ACL GC given a little extra time for planning)
- Downtime between games
- Consistency in qualifying process (online and offline, online only, online OR offline).
- Lack of feeling that there's an actual circuit and not just a series of individual events, completed with the crowning of a champion at the end of the year (and I agree, a finals series with the top 16 for the year would be much more exciting than just "Player X got most points, grats"

- What would you think of a 'per event' qualifying system?
- What do you think would work well for competitive seeding in 2013
I'll answer these together - I think per event qualifiers would be ideal. I would like to see qualifiers separated from the points system, so that points are only earned at national events and NOT qualifiers. At the first ACL, everyone needs to qualify. Then at the next, the top 8 or whatever auto qualify, and the others go through the qualifier process. At the moment, the top players are forced to be at every qualifier to maintain their overall points, even when already qualified. While I love going to a LAN knowing that there's a chance I'll get to play GLaDe, I think for the sake of competition it works better if he doesn't need to attend.

One challenge to this of course is combining qualifiers with other events - of course, it's not right to say to GLaDe, "Sorry, you miss out on the chance at the prize money at this LANsmash tournament because it is doubling as an ACL qualifier and you've already qualified". So to make this work, there would need to be dedicated qualifier events, which I appreciate may not be feasible

- What will best define the CHAMPIONS at the end of the year?
A trophy or something is fair. I'm a fan of prize money for individual events, and trophy and title for the yearly one.

Quick Comments

Pandan:

Trophy or ring! (or something else significant)

[inFeZa]

Less wobbly tables for pig to complain about.

Quick Comments

	mGGHalt:	+1
	Mayo:	hah
	NOM:	hahaha
	Pandan:	Greedy PiG wants lights on as well!
	x5_dot:	how dare his eyes not adjust in the dark

[SLCN.Kez]

I'll preface everything by saying that, for me, ACL was the main event I looked forward to competing in every time an ACL was coming up, and about 95% of it I thought was amazing and would love to compete in it again! That being said...

Miscommunication with points system:
I'm fairly sure at the beginning of the year at ACL Gold Coast it was announced the players with the highest points throughout the year would earn a spot at the national finals, but at the end of the year this was changed to "you go a better seed in the qualifiers". Now, as it turned out, this was irrelevant for me as I wasn't in the country to participate in the eb expo anyway! But had I been, I would have been very disappointed, as players made big efforts to get acl points so they could attend the final at the end of the year.

Down time in between games:
Being a player at all the events I didn't particularly notice downtime on stream a lot, but I've seen a lot of people complaining about this.

Audio at events:
Adding to what others said above, watching the stream/audio/commentary at the event was very hard, as you couldn't turn up the volume for fear of having players hear the broadcast as well (a very realistic fear, as I was able to hear the commentators whilst playing at ACL Melbourne). Perhaps have the players of in a separate room in the venue to the crowd/casters so they can broadcast as loud as you want if booths are to hard/expensive to utilize.

Qualification process: I thought ACL Sydneys qual process was the best, as a combination of both online and LAN is a good mix.

The biggest issue: Scheduling of open bracket on day of competition:
For ACL Gold Coast and Sydney the open brackets were a bit of a nightmare, forcing groups to also be a bit of a nightmare, and same with the finals. This issue was remedied at Melbourne mostly, but could possible be better, with either more computers available so more matches can be played at once, or more admins to speed up games/players, but like I said, this was largely fixed at Melbourne.

Can't say what ACL EB expo was like as I wasn't there.

One last thing, I am thoroughly looking forward to next years ACL circuit and shall be practicing hard to take 1 down!

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	This.
	Pandan:	Yeah, communication / indecision

[Zepph]

A few things I would improve:

I know it's really sticky but having two streams somewhere in the future would be a lot better. It's cool that you guys like to put as many games on stream as you can (and so you should!) but holding games gets quite frustrating for the players and doesn't help with keeping to schedule. ACL Sydney saw sick matches like Light vs Moonglade not get streamed because lower league open bracket players were being casted instead. We have a lot of sick players and tournaments are only becoming more stacked each time, so in order to stream as many of those matches as possible and still let open bracket players get a bit of the spotlight too, dual streams somewhere down the road would be a nice thing to have.

Keep using a stage. The primitive little stage at ACL Melbourne may have only been 2 desks with some pretty lights but I thought it was a super cool addition. Moar!

Admins: be meaner. You're still not always harsh enough on the players which seems to be the main problem with keeping to schedule. If you want something played, make sure their asses are parked on a chair and the game lobby is counting down before you stop hounding them. Stop being such friendly non-threatening nerds D:


A quick note to others mentioning disorganization and poor event coverage:

+ Show +

Technical difficulties happen at every event. Some tournaments somehow have broadcasting an event down to a fine art (MLG, Dreamhack), but they have massive amounts of people working their buts off to make it happen (+ they don't have Australian internet).ACL is probably the smoothest in terms of dealing with broadcasting issues.

I'd like to clear something up when it comes to technical difficulties:

It's not necessarily the fault of those running the event or stream. Streams are tested and tried to the best of their ability beforehand. Any issues that arise obviously couldn't be foreseen. For example...

GESC: The university's internet was supposedly uncapped for this event. The test streams went on without a problem and the quality was great. What we didn't know was that after x amount of time the uni's internet would stifle the connection since we were using too much download/upload since they hadn't actually given us the access we asked for. This was not the fault of the GESC stream team.

EB EXPO: The place was set up horribly. The power went out after frying some bits and pieces because whoever connected up the power supplies for the esports area (I'll repeat, NOT someone involved with running or streaming the actual tourney) did it wrong. They also didn't have enough internet capabilities for us to cast on stream. The stream team ended up grabbing a couple of 4G sticks and having to wait 2 hours to get something going on the fly. Again, not the fault of the ACL guys.

Just keep that in mind!

I think the ACL guys have always done a phenomenal job at recovering from speed bumps during the day with power, lag, internet etc. while still managing to keep the event as a whole running. It's really quite a feat. (:

Quick Comments

Fenner:

yeah!! acl melbourne stage was awesome, that was my favourite event

[NOM]

Originally Posted by ToR.Arnor

What did you think of the points & seeding system?
*there is also the issue of some cities being alot stronger than others (NSW and QLD are stronger than VIC and SA or instance) perhaps it would be simplier not to have regional events or regional events to just be side events that add towards Yearly Totals but not the seasons Total?

Or just have SA / VIC AND WA together :S
think having something like have playoffs as per usual then when finals happen, other states merge in?

[Pandan]

I don't think there's a large need for me to go particularly specific; we've already had the discussions - so just a reminder;

Consistency

Content

Information

Value for Money (Both players & spectators)

Something to fight for

[JaYbOc]

Really really really enjoyed the Sydney tourney, I believe it was at UNSW back in april. Sick tournament, played in the open bracket with some friends, great environment. It did go way overtime into the night though. Can't really comment on the other events, but more Sydney live events is always appreciated