[dennistoo]

As per the topic, i have real difficulty beating a zerg. I've tried 2G zealots fast push, 1SG consist of 2 VR & Stalkers for 14pool which failed me miserably. It became a fear for me to face a zerg which make me turtle in base to mass out my army for a push.

As such, i would love to have a Zerg training partner or a Toss traing partner to guide me and train with me. Share your tactics with me.

I'm a gold with 1.5k points which put me to shame whenever i can't beat a zerg.

[Torniquet]

You might want to post some replays in this thread for people to look at.
http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=202

You can upload your replays to the site or one of the many others that exist

There is also this thread for training partners find people around your level and the race youd like to play, add them and ask if they want to play a game or two.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=99

[dennistoo]

Originally Posted by Torniquet

You might want to post some replays in this thread for people to look at.
http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=202

You can upload your replays to the site or one of the many others that exist

There is also this thread for training partners find people around your level and the race youd like to play, add them and ask if they want to play a game or two.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=99

Thanks Torniquet. I would keep a lookout for that.

[DFM]

I had a huge post written out for this, but by the time I clicked "Post Quick Reply", it told me to relog and everything was lost rofl

Long story short, I'm not that great myself but have you tried a basic opening (like 3 gate) into expand into big gateway push? Keeping up with the zerg ecomony is really the key I think. Obivously if he's one basing you can just stick to one base to, although expanding at some point it always better. Fancy 2-gate zealot pressure or voidray openings don't work that well after the zealot build time increase and the voidray damage nerf.
And as already mentioned, post replays, easier to help that way. IMO most players look for mistakes in the wrong parts of their gameplay.

[Torniquet]

Heh ive lost count of how many times thats happened to me DFM =/ Like updating the past Tournament results then go to post and it had logged me out =/ Nowadays i just make sure i have whatever im posting copied before i send.

[Apth]

I'd love to see some replays - and not just because I play Zerg and want to see how it's done

[nirvAnA]

welcome to tendersteaks cant beat zerg life! lol

[dennistoo]

Originally Posted by DFM

I had a huge post written out for this, but by the time I clicked "Post Quick Reply", it told me to relog and everything was lost rofl

Long story short, I'm not that great myself but have you tried a basic opening (like 3 gate) into expand into big gateway push? Keeping up with the zerg ecomony is really the key I think. Obivously if he's one basing you can just stick to one base to, although expanding at some point it always better. Fancy 2-gate zealot pressure or voidray openings don't work that well after the zealot build time increase and the voidray damage nerf.
And as already mentioned, post replays, easier to help that way. IMO most players look for mistakes in the wrong parts of their gameplay.

Infact, i have not been playing 3G 1R against zerg so far. I always have fear for bringing the match to mid-game as the Zerg army is too huge to contain! Especially mutalisk.. too fast to handle. And by going 3G 1R expand might sounds good but speedlings will come harass and it takes alot of micro skills to contain them too!

Really no luck against Zerg nowadays.. it's a sad ladder matches with 1W 4L with Zerg. And all 5 matches all placed with Zerg.

I do not have any replays now but would love to post 1 up soon!

[Torniquet]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

welcome to tendersteaks cant beat zerg life! lol

Hence forth, PvZ troubles shall be known as Tendersteak Syndrome.

But yeah just post up some replays so people can have a look and give you some pointers, tell you why you lost things like that.

[DFM]

Originally Posted by dennistoo

Infact, i have not been playing 3G 1R against zerg so far. I always have fear for bringing the match to mid-game as the Zerg army is too huge to contain! Especially mutalisk.. too fast to handle. And by going 3G 1R expand might sounds good but speedlings will come harass and it takes alot of micro skills to contain them too!

Really no luck against Zerg nowadays.. it's a sad ladder matches with 1W 4L with Zerg. And all 5 matches all placed with Zerg.

I do not have any replays now but would love to post 1 up soon!

Well, if you want to get better you'll have to learn those micro skills i'm afraid =/
There's no build that'll get you an easy win, if that's what your looking for.
Also thinking that zerg can do everything at the same time is something you'll have to get out of your head, we're talking about zerg here, not terran 'kay? (lol)
Every set of lings means one less drone or muta. If he's getting a ton of lings to try to deny your expo, it means he has less drones and/or muta will be delayed. On a lot of maps it's possible to wall the expo anyway so lings shouldn't be able to get in that easily.
On maps with wide open expansion, you'll have to be clever with your building placement.

In general in PvZ you'll want to restrict the Zergs movements on the map, plug up chokes where you think it's necessary and try to fight in tighter spaces so the zerg units clump up and colossi/storm can own them.

If you expand you'll want to get a forge down quite soon, for +1 attack so your zealots dominate lings and cannons if you suspect mutas and you decided to go for a more gateway centric army which is less mobile than mutas, even blink stalkers. You'll have to play a lot of games until you'll get a feel for when you can get away without building cannons and when you really need them, that's something that is really difficult to grasp even if pros try to explain it to you, cause the timings are always at least slightly different from game to game.
On Shakuras Plateau I like to go 15 nexus and sometimes I get only 1 cannon at the front and sometimes I get up to 4, depends heavily on what you scout, like everything else in sc2: If you see a lot of lings, get more zealots, if you scout a spire, get a stargate, if you suspect a ton of roaches get blink stalkers and/or immortals.

Just remember, zerg can't get everything at the same time, unless you let them. Every larva spent on unit X means less of Y. Just try to adjust to your composition accordingly.

Also to a recent quote by Refallen: "When in doubt... 4 gate i guess?"

[dennistoo]

Originally Posted by DFM

Well, if you want to get better you'll have to learn those micro skills i'm afraid =/
There's no build that'll get you an easy win, if that's what your looking for.
Also thinking that zerg can do everything at the same time is something you'll have to get out of your head, we're talking about zerg here, not terran 'kay? (lol)
Every set of lings means one less drone or muta. If he's getting a ton of lings to try to deny your expo, it means he has less drones and/or muta will be delayed. On a lot of maps it's possible to wall the expo anyway so lings shouldn't be able to get in that easily.
On maps with wide open expansion, you'll have to be clever with your building placement.

In general in PvZ you'll want to restrict the Zergs movements on the map, plug up chokes where you think it's necessary and try to fight in tighter spaces so the zerg units clump up and colossi/storm can own them.

If you expand you'll want to get a forge down quite soon, for +1 attack so your zealots dominate lings and cannons if you suspect mutas and you decided to go for a more gateway centric army which is less mobile than mutas, even blink stalkers. You'll have to play a lot of games until you'll get a feel for when you can get away without building cannons and when you really need them, that's something that is really difficult to grasp even if pros try to explain it to you, cause the timings are always at least slightly different from game to game.
On Shakuras Plateau I like to go 15 nexus and sometimes I get only 1 cannon at the front and sometimes I get up to 4, depends heavily on what you scout, like everything else in sc2: If you see a lot of lings, get more zealots, if you scout a spire, get a stargate, if you suspect a ton of roaches get blink stalkers and/or immortals.

Just remember, zerg can't get everything at the same time, unless you let them. Every larva spent on unit X means less of Y. Just try to adjust to your composition accordingly.

Also to a recent quote by Refallen: "When in doubt... 4 gate i guess?"

I think the main issue with me is scared to expand, scared to push and key thing is very very poor scouting against zerg. I was wondering does Hallucination helps for such cases? Instead of going for fast 1G 1Robo, i can make use of Hallucination to scout of information's instead of spending 200M 100G on Robo and additional 50M 100G for obs?

[dennistoo]

@Nirvana:

I happens to saw at strategy posted on TL forums on applying 2G pressure for fast expanding Zerg and the two main objectives when 2Ging is to delay the zerg expansion and to force the zerg to build roaches or zerglings instead of drones and transit into Stalkers to protect the zealots from roaches attack follow by expanding with stalkers/zealots.

After expanding, transit into Stargate immediately followed by a twilight council with chargelots and send the first phx to zerg base for scouting info. If scouted they transit into Hydra, tech to DT.

Your tots on this build? Primary concern should be defending the FE with just pure zealots and stalkers. Would it be sufficient?

[Torniquet]

The original post was pre patch, Sept 1st. So i dont know if its viable or not anymore with Roach buff. Could be not sure but just something to be mindful of when reading up builds, check the date.

[dennistoo]

Thanks. But i was wondering does 2G early pressure still work for Toss despite the nerf?

[Apth]

Mass Collossus is still what troubles me most against Protoss. I'm hesitant to respond with Corruptors because if my opponent stops making Collossus, I'm left with a whole bunch of useless units, and mass Collossus is freakin scary if you don't have Corruptors.

I haven't had any trouble with 2Gate since the patch, partly because I'm not seeing it much anymore but mostly because Roaches are that much more badass.

[Torniquet]

Havent seen it or done it in a while with the Gateway nerf and Roach buff seems to have negated 2 gate =/ But yeah id wait for a nod or not from a Protoss player rather than random. Might be worthwhile to watch some replas as well, PvZ. IF yo ulook in the latest files or ROTM you should be able to find some. See what builds they are using and maybe adopt some of them?

[Exultant]

Hey man, VR rush still works :P Build stalker to knock out overlord. Build a few VRs and gogo!!

[DFM]

I seriously doubt 2 gate works on the current patch. I personally haven't done a 2 gate opening since forever. Between zealots taking 5 seconds longer to build and roach +1 range I just don't see it working. Might be a good build to pull out once in a while in a bo3 or in a series in general, but on ladder most zergs open with roaches, which'll rape your zealots. Even stalkers (without blink ofc) have trouble against speed roaches.

And definitely, hallucination can help to scout. This is especially true against Zerg since burrowed roaches aren't all that common yet (although I feel we'll be seeing more of that soon...), so you don't need to rush for detection. However some people will argue that hallucination will come out too late unless you constantly chronoboost it after warpgate finishes, which in turn will hurt your probe production and possibly delay your expansion. I haven't really played around with it too much, so I can't really comment on it.

[nirvAnA]

Originally Posted by dennistoo

@Nirvana:

I happens to saw at strategy posted on TL forums on applying 2G pressure for fast expanding Zerg and the two main objectives when 2Ging is to delay the zerg expansion and to force the zerg to build roaches or zerglings instead of drones and transit into Stalkers to protect the zealots from roaches attack follow by expanding with stalkers/zealots.

After expanding, transit into Stargate immediately followed by a twilight council with chargelots and send the first phx to zerg base for scouting info. If scouted they transit into Hydra, tech to DT.

Your tots on this build? Primary concern should be defending the FE with just pure zealots and stalkers. Would it be sufficient?

yea i still do that build on some maps like LT where the expansion is small and ez to defend with cannons (if he goes 1 base roach). its weaker with zealot speed time but still viable. however on maps like xel naga its really hard to defend and would got owned hardcore by roach range imo so its better to do that korean fast expand build

pvz is basically zerg has the advantage early game. so toss has to either 4 gate or some sort of cheese to harm the zerg, or expand themselves to keep up with the 2 base zerg economy.

i dislike 4 gating so i recommended expanding, do the korean sentry heavy expand build which white ra did in the blizzcon games, its really strong/flexible. maintian decent stalker/sentry number to keep pressure on the zerg

u gotta be more specific with what u have trouble with, tenders problem was fighting mass roach every game but he solved it already. i also wont recommend VRs or 4 gate those builds are gimmicky and even if u manage to learn to do it well and manage to win a few games its not the right way to learn the game.

also dunno whats with u guys logging out! i ticked the box (its a remember me box)when i login so ive never had that problem b4.

[dennistoo]

okay guys. i've managed to save some replays from the 3 matches against zerg. I tried the normal standard build order for the first game but ultimately, i've to cheese so hard to win my remaining 2 games.

it would be great if you could advice on what went wrong on my 1st game because it seems like phx still can't contain the mass mutalisk, lings & roaches!

G1
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...delta-quadrant

G2
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...delta-quadrant

G3
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...g-jungle-basin