[deL]

Originally Posted by breadfan

That's not really fair. Having a punishment that applies for tournaments for cheating in tournaments is pretty reasonable to me

He also cheated in ladder, and decieved people about his actual skill level which lead him to becoming a coach on the site - damaging the site and community as well as anyone who recieved training from him. It really doesn't show that he is apologetic or in any way remorseful of his actions unless he offered these things.

[Fourby]

I'd

Originally Posted by ChesthairMcBiceps

I'd like to see CHoBo banned until he refunds all of his coaching students or at least donates the money he made from it to sc2sea to go back into the community.
__________________

^^^THIS x10000.

like I said last night/this morning to nirvana, Hacking on ladder is one thing, but cheating in a tournament where Money is involved is a completely different thing. Not to mention he would have taken it and not even looked back if he wasnt caught + the coaching he has been giving from TGM.

This is money people are working hard for, its ridiculous that this can be compared to just ladder hackers.

(for some reason nirv said hacking is a lot worse than smurfing lol. but I think that's just coz it was like 5am and he was trying to watch MLG and wasnt thinking haha)

Quick Comments

TADivinity:

Exactly what im saying. This is the worst case we've had IMO

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

What is a suitable punishment for cheating coaching students?.. The guy was a lying little worm that took people's money based on a lie!?!!...

As someone who actually was coached, I feel I'm in a qualified position to give insight on this. Beyond this I really don't want to get involved though, I'm not trying to defend any of the smurfing or anything at all, so don't get the wrong idea. I just think demanding refunds for everyone for chunks of $20 (that were probably supplemented into weekly income, rather than put aside in a managed fund or something) is wrong. And wrong in principle, not only in this one case.

I paid for coaching, and I got the coaching I paid for. He spent the time in sessions, he analysed replays, and he answered questions. I improved at least as much as I expected to from coaching. I'm paying for that time, not for his ability. Coaching isn't all about what level of GM someone is - I'm pretty confident I got coached by a GM player, whether he is top 10 or top 200 GM doesn't really make a difference, at least for me. Coaching style and methods are more important - the person needs to be able to transfer their skill to you. I feel you'd get more out of coaching with a master's player who is able to effectively communicate and teach you than IM_Mvp, if Mvp wasn't able to communicate in a way that enabled transfer of skill.

As I said in a previous post, my biggest concern is that people who I recommended him to might feel differently than I. They may genuinely feel ripped off, and that might reflect poorly on me. However, that's more of a personal issue. I don't feel I'm owed any money or anything.

Quick Comments

	Rage:	This was my point. Anyone short of top GM themselves will get just as much coaching from a low GM/masters as from top GM
	CHoBo(kice):
	MooZfY:
	Zealo:
	AsGNabi:
	nirvAnA:
	ToRSpartaz:

[Criven]

Originally Posted by breadfan

As someone who actually was coached, I feel I'm in a qualified position to give insight on this. Beyond this I really don't want to get involved though, I'm not trying to defend any of the smurfing or anything at all, so don't get the wrong idea. I just think demanding refunds for everyone for chunks of $20 (that were probably supplemented into weekly income, rather than put aside in a managed fund or something) is wrong. And wrong in principle, not only in this one case.

Another satisfied customer here.. The coaching was done well. I received what I paid for and even if refunds are offered I wouldn't go about claiming them.

I think in order for this black mark to be scrubbed from the pages of this sites history and generally move on admins should implement a forum ban on the members involved to avoid flare ups occurring and make what has been mentioned stick with dates and conditions in place in order to avoid issues like those suffered with Deth (?) a while back.

Quick Comments

CHoBo(kice):

[Doghead26]

Same here, I feel his teaching methods was really good and even though he might not be top 20 gm what not, he did a real good job with coaching and he took his time to do it and he done his homework on how to coach.

Quick Comments

	Criven:
	nirvAnA:

[iM SundeR]

Originally Posted by Doghead26

Same here, I feel his teaching methods was really good and even though he might not be top 20 gm what not, he did a real good job with coaching and he took his time to do it and he done his homework on how to coach.

Nice try, ChoBo.

Quick Comments

	jayaiwhy:	that's not chobo
	Fourby:	yeh its probably some korean
	Zealo:	he's from singapore and moving to perth to study next year...
	AsGNabi:	that spelling and grammar is far too good to be chobo
	nirvAnA:	:(
	TAEdgE:	haha nabi
	EveMassacrisM:	1st thing came to mind.

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by SundeR

Nice try, ChoBo.

Except dog head was referred to me by Zealo. Switched from Zerg to Terran. Started as a platinum and now definatly masters - mid masters worthy. His determination to improve is impressive, has showed improvement very quickly and follows instructions very well. Credit to AsG

Quick Comments

Doghead26:

[ToRSpookToR]

yeah i know doghead its not chobo^^

Quick Comments

Doghead26:

[iM SundeR]

Quick Comments

	Snx.FigJig:	nice try
	breadfan:

[CHoBo(kice)]

As a kind gesture, I have given a additional lesson to all students at no charge. In fact dog head has already received his. Most have been contacted about this, for those who havnt this is available... Please contact me. I also thank you for your support.

For any one not satisfied I will address the situation case by case basis and try to provide a reasonable solution. Nobody I have found so far is unsatisfied.

Quick Comments

	Doghead26:
	Spud:	homo
	ROOTPetraeus:	god damn it wheres my neg rep
	nirvAnA:	I'm sure everyone is still mad at you but this is a step in the right direction

[nirvAnA]

I removed the AsG tag from his name since he has been kicked from the clan.

Also his name is now labeled and he will wear that badge of shame every time he posts.

Same thing will go follow the map hackers who were caught in the past but we not banned from the forums.
A tag will be displayed under their forum name for the duration of the ban.

Quick Comments

	Peleus:	rofl awesome
	iMSystem:
	Bash:
	Nemo:	Good idea
	CHoBo(kice):

[neKo]

I can't believe how lightly we have treated the punishment, this is a guy who has lied to the community and attempted to steal money from our pro scene, and we are still giving him the leisure of being part of it?

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	Its for consistency, the map hackers were not banned too as they didn't break forum rules
	Peleus:	I think we should be consistant and ban them all for life.
	breadfan:	I like nirvAnA's approach and there's no reason it can't be re-evaluated in 1 year if necessary

[Nerphed]

Originally Posted by ChesthairMcBiceps

I'd like to see CHoBo banned until he refunds all of his coaching students or at least donates the money he made from it to sc2sea to go back into the community.

See, I recieved coaching from him and while yes, it did come as a surprise that he smurfed a tournament,
his coaching was still valid, still helped and I got what I paid for, I think you need to understand that wanting him to be a bad player cos he annoyed you, is alot different to him actually being a bad player. At least, that's how I read you feel about it.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	Thanks for sharing. He was indeed GM, just not "Top level" gm
	AsGNabi:

[syfChadMann]

I think the issue isn't so much the students - but he cheated out other legitimate Terran coaches.. HuT or iaguz could have been able to provide the service - that they have legitimately obtained the ability to give.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	good point :)
	breadfan:	No one else was coaching T when I started my lessons, but good point for those who had the choice between CHoBo/HuT

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by cRneko

I can't believe how lightly we have treated the punishment, this is a guy who has lied to the community and attempted to steal money from our pro scene, and we are still giving him the leisure of being part of it?

Dude I could easily just use one of my other accounts in gm and start again. But I don't. This punishment I have accepted and am wearing the badge of shame which is IMO better.

[Nerphed]

Why weren't they allowed to take a spot as a listed coach as well? Diversity is good and competition drives people to try harder, therefore better coaching....?

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

They are other coaches - but CHobo took students off them... -_-

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by CHoBo(kice)

Dude I could easily just use one of my other accounts in gm and start again. But I don't. This punishment I have accepted and am wearing the badge of shame which is IMO better.

speaking of which - I think you should be forced to name your other accounts - your tournament ban is not just for your CHobo account. If not publicly - nirvAnA must be informed.

Quick Comments

Synizta:

I agree 100% with this.

[Nerphed]

Hmm see again I see that as being biased because he cheated in a tournament, you assume he can't coach and therefore took students off them, I personally didn't even look to HuT or iaguz, so he definantly didn't take me from anyone. I guess I'm just more forgiving than you, I don't know but It really seems like you're out to get this guy due to a personal vendetta or something. Same with Peleus.. I don't know I don't really spend enough time in the forums or on the channels to really understand if that's the case, and don't take offense, I'm not making any accusations, just merely observations.

-edit- added last sentence instead of making another post.

[syfChadMann]

I'm saying - he used others to level up his account to GM - there is ZERO way of knowing he is even close to GM skill level - his coaching was offered of false pretences - if you were looking for coaching, and the two available options were HuT (GM level sponsored Terran player) or MrX (Diamond level no-name) who would you pick?

It wouldn't be the diamond level player. However, if said diamond player paid a high level European and Korean to level up his account to GM.. then had an impressive record on ladder.. you might be more comfortable getting coaching from him.
(hypothetically speaking - of course


In short, this elaborate lie has stolen the opportunity of coaching from people like HuT, iaguz, etc...

[CHoBo(kice)]

Hello chad I'm still here and still playing under Chobo. will not be disclosing other accounts as they are for paying customers