[PiG]

I posted this on the other thread about this LAN however I feel it deserves its own thread. The map pool will be:

Blistering Sands
Delta Quadrant
Lost Temple
Metalopolis
Steppes of War
Scrap Station
Xel naga Caverns
Shakuras Plateau

Could everyone please join me in contacting the organisers (yoyo.zhang@intimegroups.com )and DEMANDING that they fix this completely imbalanced map pool! So far the organisers have replied to emails from several angry sc2 players with:

"these maps were in the ladder before, so it should be ok"
- (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=2)

Let's try and imagine some problems with these maps:
1) Steppes of war, rush distance = 1 screen, zerg will auto-lose against a solid T or P.
2) Lost Temple, cliff drop on natural = gg
3) Delta quadrant = so many ways for terran to drop and abuse helions or seige tanks in close positions that it is simply retarded.

There are also no vetoes!

For such a big tournament with big sponsors and coverage to actually promote imbalanced play and random game modes such as 4v4 it makes me sad and angry. As one of the top zergs on SEA my hopes of success were dashed upon seeing this ridiculous decision by the organisors. If a zerg hits the top 8 it will be due to a mix of truly spectacular play and raw luck.

I'm sure P and T recognise imbalances and lack of depth in gameplay on these maps so please PLease reply with what YOU think is wrong with this map pool.

On a further note whilst you can bring your own mouse and headphones(Who cares?) you HAVE to use their keyboards.

Yesterday I was at the City hunter charity LAN and forgot to bring my keyboard. I was playing at a much lower skill level than normally until i ducked home during lunch and got my own keyboard, following with a huge jump in my apm and skill. I was simply lucky to only vs players much lower then me to this point. From this point i won the tournament, using the equipment I TRAINED on for the last 6 months.

As someone said on TL this is like taking the favoured joggers off of an olympic sprinter right before his race.

We need to get vocal about demanding the correct professionalism and organisation from an event that is getting huge sponsorship.

If the event proceeds as planned it may actually be a step backwards for e-sports in Australia as the rest of the world watching on TL will realise just how BACKWARDS we are. First we banned L4D2, now we can't even update a goddamn map pool.

I am bloody angry please join me in contacting the organisers and getting it fixed!

Once again here is the email link: yoyo.zhang@intimegroups.com

[TAavanar]

yea imo the city hunter map pool was good it had the good new maps and i think shakuras, it will also be harder to practice for these maps and dont the organisers know of the imbalances? im dreading playing on blistering myself.
and on a side note anyone know wat keyboard they are making us use?

[deL]

I dunno, seems kinda fair after the nGen coalition of Light and Benji called all the shots for maps and group seedings at the CH LAN to avoid knocking each other out.

You have to understand this isn't a charity event - they are hosting 4v4 to show off their 'team game' booths so they benefit from this event. This is arguably more important than everything being 100% focussed on competitive play because it means there will be more events in the future. Similarly Razer is supporting the event providing keyboards and other peripherals and likewise want to show off their gear.

Originally Posted by PiG

As someone said on TL this is like taking the favoured joggers off of an olympic sprinter right before his race.

No it's like taking the shoes off EVERY runner in the race so it's a bare foot race.

[PiG]

Originally Posted by avanar

yea imo the city hunter map pool was good it had the good new maps and i think shakuras, it will also be harder to practice for these maps and dont the organisers know of the imbalances? im dreading playing on blistering myself.
and on a side note anyone know wat keyboard they are making us use?

It will be provided by Razer from what I've heard, so some people are hoping for black widows. Though tbh i just want the buttons in the right spot.

No definite news on which keyboards though.

Originally Posted by deL

I dunno, seems kinda fair after the nGen coalition of Light and Benji called all the shots for maps and group seedings at the CH LAN to avoid knocking each other out.

You have to understand this isn't a charity event - they are hosting 4v4 to show off their 'team game' booths so they benefit from this event. This is arguably more important than everything being 100% focussed on competitive play because it means there will be more events in the future. Similarly Razer is supporting the event providing keyboards and other peripherals and likewise want to show off their gear.


No it's like taking the shoes off EVERY runner in the race so it's a bare foot race.

Benji and Light were the only two ngen if they specifically put themselves on opposite ends of the bracket then oh well thats lame, but its not like either of them even made it to the finals and that was a small event with no qualifiers so I'm not too mad about it.

Maps that are specifically very imbalanced against Zerg in a 1v1 tournament that has $7000 for first prize is a big issue. It's basically saying we don't give a crap about having more exciting, macro games where zerg have a chance, we will just use the old map pool because we think the very bottom level players are more used to it.

I wasn't aware of the team-booth thing and ok that makes sense as a promotional tool.

Still, why can't they fix the map pool for 1v1? You sound like you're defending them but all i can surmise from ur argument is that they just don't care about 1v1 being competitive or even exciting for the spectators.

P.S. I agree its like taking the shoes off every runner, not just 1. So they're basically handicapping everyone just to promote the sponsors keyboards... when it's likely to have the opposite effect.

At the very least the final rounds of the tournament should be played on the players own equipment, or the top players should be provided with identical equipment weeks before the tournament.

[Eddie]

No Jungle Basin? So they can take one old map out, but not any more?

Keyboard/peripherals isn't such a big deal imo. Everyone in the same boat. Up to the organisers. I can understand why they'd like to show off their own systems/those supplied by sponsors.

[PiG]

Originally Posted by Eddie

No Jungle Basin? So they can take one old map out, but not any more?

Keyboard/peripherals isn't such a big deal imo. Everyone in the same boat. Up to the organisers. I can understand why they'd like to show off their own systems/those supplied by sponsors.

They appear to be using the pool directly before the last patch where JB had been removed but the other crap maps were still there

[Starcraftmazter]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Keyboard/peripherals isn't such a big deal imo.

Disagree, using your own equipment is probably the most important aspect to feeling comfortable while playing.

[ToRDjvillian]

Your protest worked.

The map pool has been updated! Check out the terms and conditions on the nrghardcoregamer.com.au website.

[Benji]

Benji and Light were the only two ngen if they specifically put themselves on opposite ends of the bracket then oh well thats lame, but its not like either of them even made it to the finals and that was a small event with no qualifiers so I'm not too mad about it.

We were in the same group, there was a group with 2 players and 1 with 4, Light changed group so the groups would have 3 each and we wouldn't teamkill.

[deL]

Originally Posted by Benji

We were in the same group, there was a group with 2 players and 1 with 4, Light changed group so the groups would have 3 each and we wouldn't teamkill.

nGen with 2 members there get to avoid a teamkill but TA with 4/6 in top6 didn't get any preference lol

[ETL.Santi]

PiG you should add to the OP info on how people can contact the admins.

[PiG]

Originally Posted by Santi

PiG you should add to the OP info on how people can contact the admins.

Thanks Santi, done.

[nirvAnA]

these maps are terrible. unfortunately its because the organisers dont see very knowlegable in sc2 and dont know the balance problems associated with these maps. And 7k 4v4 prize what?!

i reckon should use GSL maps or some maps from the new ladder pool because u cant go wrong by following the example of major tournaments who know their stuff well. I would personally have picked the TSL maps. Some great choices there with the maps being slightly edited even to prevent close spawns on LT/Meta.

Well we are basically gonna be using the TSL maps for the SEA SL

[Xeen]

So they use the ladder pool, removing Jungle Basin, and it's 'completely imbalanced'.

Stay classy, Zergs.

[PiG]

Originally Posted by Xeen

So they use the ladder pool, removing Jungle Basin, and it's 'completely imbalanced'.

Stay classy, Zergs.

Dude that ladder pool is old and imbalanced. It was hard enough playing on tournaments when u could only veto 1 of steppes and DQ. Without any vetoes in a bo3 every zerg will be bound to play on one of these. Are you trying to say that Steppes is a balanced map because it used to be on ladder? I really can't wait to see how you justify this.

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by Xeen

So they use the ladder pool, removing Jungle Basin, and it's 'completely imbalanced'.

Stay classy, Zergs.

Can tell why you don't ladder anymore, weren't getting wins on ladder vs zerg as more and more slowly got rid of jungle, delta and steppes.

Easy wins all the way mate.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by EdgE

Can tell why you don't ladder anymore, weren't getting wins on ladder vs zerg as more and more slowly got rid of jungle, delta and steppes.

Easy wins all the way mate.

I had DQ and Steppes marked off, and Zerg removed JB anyways

PiG, my point is that while the maps may not be favorable, your scale of complaining over the maps that have been in use for some time is surprising. Quotes like 'as one of the top zergs on SEA my hopes of success were dashed upon seeing this ridiculous decision by the organisors' make it seem like you really believe the only thing holding you (and all Zergs) back are the maps. Then you proceed to write off a number of maps from single possibilities, 'X = gg'.

It's like I'm reading the BNet forums in here.

(I don't necessarily disagree, but the OP's writing is, well, heh.)

[nGenLight]

@Del: I was asked to pick a fair map pool, and I picked what I felt was the fairest maps from what was available from available maps on laddering history. If I picked what I wanted there was no way I would have picked DQ over Blistering Sands, (I'm pretty sure what the preference for me and Benji was) the opinion was that there was too many zerg maps and having DQ in there instead of BS, most of the games was played on Xel, Metal and ST, SS anyway. I had no idea/what happened in the seedings.

Back to the OP. I agree with you PIG, that does pretty look unorganised/somewhat imbalanced for zergs. Goodluck with making them change the rules, I'm sorry I really CBF to get involved.

[PiG]

Well xeen like i said i was just pissed at having to relive playing on these maps. I don't feel like i would just win the tournament if there were even maps. But I feel like I don't have a fair chance. I didn't say thats the only thing holding us zergs back, im saying that a major tourney should be up to date with balancing. You have obviously never played alot of major tournaments as zerg back when this was the map pool.

Often a map like steppes would be first up, and you would lose to timing attacks from T or P 80% of the time, 2nd map you could pick a balanced map or something "zerg favoured" like blistering or scrap (I don't really know how favoured they are cos i never got to play on them much as ppl would veto). in the 3rd game your opponent would pick DQ or LT and abuse the high-ground creating a ridiculously hard situation to win.

To be put in this situation against top Terran players like Pinder and Deth and top protoss like Light It is extremely demoralizing knowing that my best bet will be cheesy or extremely aggressive plays.


I was raging and my writing style reflects that, but i believe all of my points were valid.

P.S. I've summarised the vast reasons why these maps suck into single points because the vast majority of the people on these forums have heard and learnt from Artosis and Tasteless aswell as all the top players and casters, forums and sites why these maps are just bad.

[aLtNinja]

Sent an E-mail about the maps, i too am a little disappointed in the map pool, not even just about balance it just makes for bad games....