[Rockstar]

I'm zerg, and lately when a protoss has FFE'd I've just been throwing down a warren, putting my drones back on gas and just build 8ish roach, a bunch of lings and smash him... The most trouble I've had is when they get a VR out, but by that time I generally have breached their wall and have too many lings for them to escape... I also end up having 2 hatch at the end of this, so the all in is dependant on the damage I deal with my strike... I can drone up ridiculously quickly if the attack fails, but to this point it hasn't...

So my question is: What can a protoss do to stop a roach all in, or is it just a checkmate move provided you don't derp it on the micro? Also, if he builds more than 4 cannons to hold it, wouldn't this kind of negate the FFE, considering thats 4+ gateways he doesn't have, 600+ minerals of army he doesn't have,.. and considering I can remax on drones more quickly than he can, wouldn't I be ahead even if the attack failed??

[ROOTPetraeus]

Basically if he scouts it, he can make cannons and sentry's and be way ahead. The Zerg CAN drone behind it but they will still be way behind because even if they have even worker count, they won't have lair/third base.

[Peleus]

Basically it comes down to scouting from toss. If they scout it they can effectively use sentries to keep your roaches back and being hit by the canon fire, along with throwing down extra canons. Unfortunately with the all in nature you're severely behind if they scout it.

If they don't however things are looking very good for you.

Oh rushes to DT tech also can cause issues because you won't have detection or a method to get it with a standard ling / roach all in (no lair or evo), makes it very awkward in a base race.

[|Erasmus|]

he's fine building 4+ cannons to hold it because you didn't make drones, you made roaches and mined gas, so assuming you invested more than 450 minerals in your attack and 8 roaches = ~600 minerals (and ~200 gas) he is ahead. And he's ahead in worker count.

[syfChadMann]

errmmm.. if the Protoss held your attack, you'd be behind.. 2 base Protoss > 2 base zerg...
Also, this aggression isn't great on maps where Protoss can force field you out. Any protoss worth their mustard would be keeping an eye on your third though, to see if you take it.. if not - they will cannon up and be fine. I'd advise denying this scouting...
I think the 'take quick third base' is a safer/better response to a FFE Protoss...then keep an eye on their natural gas.. see when they take the gas for how much you can drone... (early gas - MOAR DRONES!!) late gas more army..

[Rockstar]

So if he is ready for me, and I don't attack into it, what would be the best decision from that point.... saturate my 2base as fast as possible, take a third? Generally I'd expect either voids or +1 timing attack, or even fast dt's... so I would have to get a lair asap.. and I would want to get +1 carapace to counteract the +1 weapons.. whats the best order to do all that?

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

So if he is ready for me, and I don't attack into it, what would be the best decision from that point.... saturate my 2base as fast as possible, take a third? Generally I'd expect either voids or +1 timing attack, or even fast dt's... so I would have to get a lair asap.. and I would want to get +1 carapace to counteract the +1 weapons.. whats the best order to do all that?

You would be totally behind, poke up with lings to see how many cannons he committed to defending and estimate whether you can break it. If not, drone up and get a 3rd your best bet would be droning hard and stick to roach ling while u saturate your third before teching.

[inFeZa]

If you see a FFE it's best to just macro up. don't try to kill him, a follow up is either robo for immortals, lots of cannons if he scouts with a 2 zealot push.. or a VR which roaches cannot kill, but you can do a lot of damage because there will only be one. I suggest kill the nexus or probes.

But stop building roaches plz, i hate them... and i will make everything to destroy them. T_T

Quick Comments

ROOTPetraeus:

Wish I had a unit like that :P

[Rockstar]

The reason I have been doing the roach ling all in is basically because the +1 attack timing push just murders me... when he sends a 6zeal push to my third to kill it they just mince my lings, I have to commit so much on lings just to stop 6 zealots... and my creep spread and unit count when he goes to attack my third is just not really there.. wish I had an appropriate replay to show...

So if I do go a 15 hatch quick third against FFE protoss, would I want to get +1 carapace for lings asap? then lair and tech?? or just survive with standard lings and smash out copious amounts of drones?? When should I tech to lair? once I've established my third or before.. ?

[Peleus]

If you're super concerned about +1 zealots throw down a spine or two (which helps later to any 2 base gateway pressure) or get roaches out a bit earlier.

As to your 'what do I do when I'm behind question' you've always got two choices in that situation. 1) build a heap and pray, in other words commit to a heap more attacking units, pray his strengthened defenses don't scale with your increased force and attack going really all in. If your attack doesn't kill him gg. 2) play super greedy and just hope he doesn't attack you. If he does you'll have nowhere near enough to hold it off, but that's the downside of being behind. Generally speaking any middle ground will usually get you crushed.

[inFeZa]

Spines are REALLLLY damn strong. very very good investment because you can move them too! AMAZING D: its like a stationary unit that does 20 damage per poke and can be healed by queens!
Don't skimp on spines, especially when you're droning up. Plus it frees up supply too. you can defend and take up 0 supply with it and some roaches.

[Peleus]

Basically a spine is two roaches. At 150 mins (spine + drone) they work out about the same money wise, but cost less gas / supply. Good investments in situations where there is only one path into your base.

[Sc2Clare]

when i see a protoss go ffe, i basically go fast third and go stephano style roach ling aggression. its been helping me win protoss ffe lately though. u can try it

[Rage]

Queens are really good against +1 zealot pressure if your micro is good. They tank a lot of damage and can't be caught by zealots as long as they stay on creep, and if you just run your queens and drones around in circles while other queens + spines pound on the zealots, you'll kill them eventually.

It takes a fair bit of micro and multitasking to control queens without losing them and without ******* up your macro too badly in the meantime, but queens is the thing I find that most reliably shuts down my zealot pressures.

In general, actually, in ZvP, i feel like extra queens are never a bad investment. Two queens per base gives you some crazy air defense, insane creep spread and a stockpile of energy to use for transfuse in an emergency.