[QEDjuslai]

i am dia lvl most of the zergs i play on 1v1 maps go for 6 pool if i can hold it by placing canon at mineral line he just rallies lings to my base and expands off the back of it then tech to either muta or roach leaving me to die i go for 14 forge should i go 12 forge on 1v1 maps?

REPLAY:6 POOL

[TheGentleman]

You may need to post replays for assistance. You can do so here in the replay feedback thread. http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=202

I'm sure someone will be happy to help once they see the problem you're having .

[QEDjuslai]

REPLAY HERE:6 POOL

[TheGentleman]

From what I've read (having not encountered this myself... but I don't ladder enough as it is haha) the correct response is to cannon your main.

http://drop.sc/276926

In that game I versed an AI and tried to beat the clock (I didn't react until I scouted the enemy base). On your replay the zerglings hit your natural at 3:00 so I tried to get a cannon up by that time.

I forwent my natural giving up my forge and proceeded to 1 base from there. At 3 minutes in your game the zerg player has 6 drones, 10 zerglings and you have 15 workers and no cannon in your main. At 3 minutes I had 15 workers, 1 almost complete cannon, I had started my gateway and was starting to work my way up the tech tree.

Don't forget that you can surround your cannon with your probes and put them on hold position to protect it. Then I could get zealots to defend as necessary and get gas, additional pylons and a cyber and even though I would lose my forge and cannon down at my natural I will be ahead in tech. 1 Base Protoss Vs. 1 Base Zerg is definitely in your favour. Economically you're ahead so don't forget to capitalise on your lead. Whether that's a strong 1 base attack to punish him or an early expansion after the lings are fended off using sentries with continual harassment.

I might also need to micro my probes so they don't die while I'm teching. Wouldn't want those end ones dying to stray lings.


The Zerglings are at your/my forge here and therefore the zerg player has 2 choices... follow you into your base to kill off probes leaving your forge alive so you can make more cannons if needed or 2 attack the forge giving you more time to prepare.

Hope that helps.

P.S. proxy 3 warp gate? Would it make just as much sense to have a proxy pylon and the rest of your buildings in your base?

P.P.S. Next time please use the Replay Feedback Thread. We have it for a reason . Link. (book mark it if you need to).

Disclaimer: I am only a platinum player and I could be wrong so if someone with more experience than I comes along to correct me take their advice.

[Dingobloo]

Building the canon in your main is definitely the correct response, but your build just needs to be tighter and your follow up a lot better.

I don't think you need to adjust your forge timing necessarily, though execution wise it could be a lot smoother:

You had your 13th probe rallied down to build it but as it was heading there you tried to pull it back, it could have gotten there to build it exactly on 150 minerals which would have helped.

The other problem is that you then send the same probe that was building the forge back into your main to build the pylon even though you already had the money which wastes a good amount of time as well.

You then send a brand new probe down to build a gateway at your natural despite knowing that the 6 pool is coming, were you trying to wall off but weren't sure if you could make it in time? Either way, it delays your follow up.

Also hurting your follow up is adding the 2nd canon, you really only need 1 canon as long as it's in time and your gateway is also well timed.

All this adds up, with a more timely canon you could have avoided losing 6 probes which also hurts you a lot you end up 8 vs 9 instead of 8 vs 15

For all intents and purposes you're in a bad position, the game is kind of over but I do want to bring up a few small points about following up.

I personally don't like a 4 gate follow up, especially on the current set of maps with reasonably small natural chokes, I think the advantage you SHOULD have coming out of a 6 pool vs canon in the main is your probe count, not your tech advantage (because he got such an early pool and you delayed yourself with a forge) so going for the long term trying to retake your expansion to me seems to play into that better.

The part where I do disagree though is that if you're going to do that attack don't proxy the gates when you could just proxy the pylon and warp in. When that attack fails you basically give him an additional 650 minerals for free and the game definitely just ends at that point. In addition to that, building a 2nd gas to fake him out and then 4gating to me just seems like slowing down an already slow 4 gate. I don't think the mind game aspect is nearly as useful as people assume it is.

Good luck out there, it's not always easy but with a bit of refinement and a better follow up I think you'll be fine.

[Snx`Azz]

just open nexus first and pull 12 probes to attack lings and with reasonable micro u can just hold it off and be ahead, or if you scout the zerg doing 6 pool take ur probe to bottom of their ramp and make 3 pylons by cutting probe, or do the forge cannon trick, but u should make a cannon in the natural as well cus if lings atk it, then they atk ur main later and u just cancel nat cannon, if not u save ur natural as well as main.

[FlashVeno]

i find walling it off much better then making a cannon in your main. if you scout them first with a 9 scout
on maps that you can wall with 3 big buildings like ohana shak and cloud you will always hold.
you can wall off entombed and antiga and taldarim ramp with 3 big buildings a pylon and a cannon as well..
daybreak im not sure but i think you can..maybe needs 1 pylon more.
it all depends on the scouting timing..entombed and antiga if you dont scout them first its really hard to hold.
blindly 13 (rally 12 probe) forge and dual scout on TDA is good also.. if they dont early pool you can always 3 pylon wall(tournment maps also dont have the depot)

[TheGentleman]

Originally Posted by FadeVenosauR

i find walling it off much better then making a cannon in your main. if you scout them first with a 9 scout
on maps that you can wall with 3 big buildings like ohana shak and cloud you will always hold.
you can wall off entombed and antiga and taldarim ramp with 3 big buildings a pylon and a cannon as well..
daybreak im not sure but i think you can..maybe needs 1 pylon more.
it all depends on the scouting timing..entombed and antiga if you dont scout them first its really hard to hold.
blindly 13 (rally 12 probe) forge and dual scout on TDA is good also.. if they dont early pool you can always 3 pylon wall(tournment maps also dont have the depot)

I actually tried to race the timer and complete a wall on daybreak and was unsuccessful each time before 3 minutes. I tried cutting probes on 14 and I only just missed and I can't remember but I think cutting it on 13 stifled my income too much. I don't see how a 6 pool can be stopped this way on daybreak but I'm fairly certain you could stop it by walling off if it were any other type of pool. E.g. 7/8+.

Don't quote me on this though.

Regardless I still think the easiest way is with the cannon.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by TheGentleman

I actually tried to race the timer and complete a wall on daybreak and was unsuccessful each time before 3 minutes. I tried cutting probes on 14 and I only just missed and I can't remember but I think cutting it on 13 stifled my income too much. I don't see how a 6 pool can be stopped this way on daybreak but I'm fairly certain you could stop it by walling off if it were any other type of pool. E.g. 7/8+.

Don't quote me on this though.

Regardless I still think the easiest way is with the cannon.

quoted. your move.

On topic, i'm fairly sure cannon in the main is usually the right response.

[DUCKVILLELOL]

Dingo and Gentleman are right on the money, I dunno how I feel about Venosaur with the wall - but I suppose if you somehow have the money at that point and want to defend the nat, give it a shot (would like to see a rep of this though).

Along with what the former two posted, I feel it's worth watching this rep of mine to see something else you can also have a go at: http://drop.sc/276999

Leave a probe down at the natural, normally hidden behind the mineral line. If you're sneaky enough and it stays undetected - if the zerg forgets your forge and tries to get into your mineral line you can put a cannon down at the nat, and you'll then have protected the forge and nat from any further incursions. In this replay I cancelled the cannon in the main because I felt confident in my probe micro and I was able to deal with the lings inside the base with just the probes.

As Dingobloo said, normally a 4gate counter can be a bit... "weird" for lack of a better word - depending on the skill of the player you're against, many Zergs will take a very quick gas and try to get a roach warren or baneling nest down - this is of course quite prominent if you're clever enough to block their natural with a pylon/cannon. Don't underestimate the power of putting a pylon/cannon at their nat like I did in that rep - it can help in giving you more time to prepare for a possible bust and/or give you more time to macro back up to where you normally would have been.

Overall, unless you've been super greedy or bad at scouting a 6pool shouldn't really do too much, I've seen sexy plays from people going nexus first against a 6pool and they defended it fine haha.

[AvPoker]

Originally Posted by Snx`Azz

just open nexus first and pull 12 probes to attack lings and with reasonable micro u can just hold it off and be ahead, or if you scout the zerg doing 6 pool take ur probe to bottom of their ramp and make 3 pylons by cutting probe, or do the forge cannon trick, but u should make a cannon in the natural as well cus if lings atk it, then they atk ur main later and u just cancel nat cannon, if not u save ur natural as well as main.

Originally Posted by Snx`Azz

or if you scout the zerg doing 6 pool take ur probe to bottom of their ramp and make 3 pylons by cutting probe, or do the forge cannon trick, but u should make a cannon

Originally Posted by Snx`Azz

take ur probe to bottom of their ramp and make 3 pylons by cutting probe

[ROCCAT_Savior]

All the correct information has already been covered in this thread, but I felt adding a few more pieces of info.

If you wall off at your ramp, your ahead, your nexus will be faster than the Z, and they won't be able to do any damage.

Defending it by putting a cannon in your mineral line can be risky. If the placement isn't perfect, then the Z can deny atleast 1 of your geysers for ages, which can force you into 4gating.

Overall I'd say the best response is to cannon your mineral line, 2 cannons if you need to, and then 3gate expand.

1 Other thing, you need to be sure to check if the Zerg has gas/is continuing to build lings, or has expo'd, these are tell tale signs of all ins or macro play to follow.

[QEDjuslai]

tnx for the tips guys i will practice it when getting 6 pool'd

[TCPKiaSu]

just transition into 4 gate and kick his ass after defending