[Ruski]

Hey guys,

I am a new player that has just really started laddering, one of my major downfalls is my macro skills. I find myself always supply blocking myself and my probe count is usually very subpar, I always try to remember my pylons and probes but I nearly always fail. Is there any tips that you guys could give me to sharpen up my macro play so I dont have to be totally mindful on it all the time I am playing.

Once I play a few games I may link a couple of them to show you what I mean.

Quick Comments

Stallion:

welcome to the world of men

[Volition]

Originally Posted by Ruski

Hey guys,

I am a new player that has just really started laddering, one of my major downfalls is my macro skills. I find myself always supply blocking myself and my probe count is usually very subpar, I always try to remember my pylons and probes but I nearly always fail. Is there any tips that you guys could give me to sharpen up my macro play so I dont have to be totally mindful on it all the time I am playing.

Once I play a few games I may link a couple of them to show you what I mean.

Congratulations on making the daunting step of entering the ladder. Many players forget that you cant master this game before you start playing.

Asking for macro help is the first key to becomming a better player. For, if you simply have more stuff than your opponent, you will win many more games than you lose. Dont think that because your macro comes good that you will suddenly have a 100% win rate, as you wont. But you will start doing better

Many people will be able to link you the best day9 dailies to watch - the ones about mechanics and screen positioning etc - dont worry so much about this. They are great, but figuring stuff out yourself is also good. There is an option under Gameplay to turn on the letters of the items in the command box - i think that is essential for newer players

The first thing you need is Hotkeys - mine are army on 1,2 and 3, command centre on 4, all rax on 5, all factories on 6 and starports on 7. You must use your hotkeys if you want to get better, and start what i think of as a rotation - the way you do things in order to help yourself keep track of the multitude of information that is coming your way in this game. Each persons rotation is a little different, the way i do it is as follows (listed in steps):-

1) build worker (so, double tap 4 to go to command centre, hit s to build scv if needed);
2) when building worker, check your supply, if you think you could be supply blocked soon, build a pylon or two (you should be near your nexus anyway, so grabbing a probe and doing it quickly should be p0retty quick)
3) check warp gates/gateways to check you are making units
4) check robo/starport to make sure you are building units
5) check army to ensure it is all hotkeyed and is OK, decide if you want to attack.
6) build workers... and so on

There is no "right" rotation, you just do things in order that is comfortable to you. And eventually you will start doing it without thinking and can then start adding other stuff - such as attacking/harassing, getting upgrades in good time. eventually you will be able to do it all so quickly you can do it while in a battle, which is somethign the very good players do that i am not so good at.

that is essentially the "mechanics" of macro - and is beneficial to focus on for ages when you start playing. I think the "Keep It Simple" theory should apply - each game you play try to get 3 bases, 200/200 army and 2/2 upgrades, and attack as soon as you can. then you record the time you got that, and try to do it quicker next time.

If you goal is to win heaps, do something else. Learn some good timing attacks and get to plat. But this style should get you going and improving with your macro. remember, if you ever get more than 800 minerals, then you have some improving to do in your macro.

anyway, feel free to post the times for us to look at.

best of luck

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	solid advice
	Stallion:	excellent reply
	cruxBsK:	copy paste for the win
	FS.Kezz:
	Ruski:	Good tips thanks
	Flamga:	Volitgion being boss
	water666:	popping knowledge bombs like a g6
	Prodigga:	W

[breadfan]

Find some pro replays and watch when they make their pylons. Don't try to analyse too hard and copy them exactly - just make a note of approximately when pylons are made (e.g. 1 - 9/10, 2 - 16/18, 3 - 23/26, etc). You might aim to make a pylon when you are 3 supply away from being blocked, until after you hit some critical number of buildings (say 3) when you want to be making 2 at a time, and starting them when you are 6 supply away from being blocked, etc. I don't play Protoss so I don't know exactly, but you will build your understanding of how quickly you go through supply.

Once you get the hang of that, it's just practice, practice, practice. You need to train yourself to always be checking your minerals, gas and supply. It's like learning to drive a car - you need to be able to identify when to switch gears and sometimes you won't get it right, but you are developing over time the ability to be able to do it without thinking. Just be patient

[12sea21]

Hey man! Welcome

What I can suggest is the following:
Set yourself a usual round of 'eyeing' your screen, meaning you look at minimap, (time etc), then top right for minerals and gas and FOOD.

Early game you should probably build food every time you reach the 4food-till-block stage, and then later you can build additional supply 'entities'.

As a zerg, I build my OL at 15, 22, and then usually doubles at 34ish, 52 etc.

Also, try to spend your money on ANYTHING, but make sure it is not useless, i.e. hydras vs collosus and lings instead of drones. In a few leagues you will know when to make army, and when to make drones

[ZiggyD]

Originally Posted by 12sea21

Hey man! Welcome

What I can suggest is the following:
Set yourself a usual round of 'eyeing' your screen, meaning you look at minimap, (time etc), then top right for minerals and gas and FOOD.

Early game you should probably build food every time you reach the 4food-till-block stage, and then later you can build additional supply 'entities'.

As a zerg, I build my OL at 15, 22, and then usually doubles at 34ish, 52 etc.

Also, try to spend your money on ANYTHING, but make sure it is not useless, i.e. hydras vs collosus and lings instead of drones. In a few leagues you will know when to make army, and when to make drones

12sea21 is giving excellent advice here. What he is talking about is the mental checklist. It's simply a cycle of the things you have to do every few seconds/minutes.

Something like this:

- Am I building Probes?
- Do I need supply?
- Am I Scouting?
- Am I building units?
- Can I expand?
- Am I constructing the next tech?
- Am I pressuring my opponent?

Once you get to the bottom go through the list again.

As for 'remembering' to build Probes specifically what you actually need to do is commit it to 'muscle memory', that is, your fingers will do them without you really having to think about it. Consistency and practice is the only way to truly build muscle memory. I worked on Probes specifically for a week or two when I was around Silver until I got to the point where I was making way too many each game (~135 in one game iirc). Nowadays I hit 4>e(x however many Nexus I have) every 30 or so seconds and if I ever see more than 2 Probes queued up down the bottom I cancel them. It's not perfect but it's a great start. As somone else suggested it can be a good idea to go back over a replay and cringe every time your Nexus is not making a Probe.

Pylons I occasionally still ahve trouble with but a few tips are to build them early and often and to build them in bunches depending on how many bases you have. (1 for one base, 2 for two etc.). I also advise building 2 Pylons at a time if you are building Robo units on one base as they really eat supply.

Hope something in here has helped, this is one of the parts of SC2 that really takes concentrated work.

Quick Comments

Ruski:

Good advice, thanks

[ToRFutureBoy]

This is what I love about this site, everyone is so will to help out. Yesterday I asked nemo to look at a replay or mine and he did within minutes, had a stream I and I was watching it. He was very helpful.
I can also add to this, don't overextend, if yuo get an advantage, use it, expand and build more production facilities. Too many times I have overextended and ended up losing, thinking to myself "why did I lose? I was so far ahead".
I look forward to more games with you man!

[Shana]

Some tips from me is fix one problem AT A TIME then only move on to fix the 2nd problem.

For example from what you have described you have low probe count and supply block, that is 2 problems. So lets fix the low probe count 1st, because this is the base of all basics to have a very stable and good economy to get the units you want later in the game.
* Hot key your Nexus to 3 & 6 (or 4 & 6)
* Hit your hot key and click "E" to build a probe, you will notice that your fingers don't move far from the 2 hot keys and its easier for you to remember to build them
* Keep building probes till you have 28~30 probes (double click on one probe to select all probes on the screen that you are seeing at the moment)
* Each base should have 24 probes (on minerals) + 6 (on gas) = 30 probes per base to have best efficiency
* Practice until you don't need to keep reminding yourself to build probes

Once you have no problem building probes, then lets focus on not supply blocking yourself. This will require your eyes to roll to the top right off & on. Here is some tips on how to not supply block yourself:-
* Always take a peek at the top right corner AFTER you've build a unit, as this makes it easy for you to know whether you are nearing your max supply or not
* The next question you might face is how far supply should I stay ahead? You won't want to have 10/100 supply when you know you can't make tons of units in next 10 secs. Tips is if you are able to build 10 supply of units (4 stalkers I think), then most probably you need 2 pylons (1 pylon is 8 supply) with some extra supply to get some probes at the mean time too.
* Also do this until 2nd nature!

Hope what I type was simple enof for you to understand ^-^ . After fixing that 2 problem, most probably you'll need to learn some timings when to get more probes and attacking units and build orders. Till then, good luck have fun!!!

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	I would suggest reversing the order, since supply blocking yourself constantly = less probes.
	Ruski:	Nice advice thanks

[Lewis]

Originally Posted by Shana

Some tips from me is fix one problem AT A TIME then only move on to fix the 2nd problem.

For example from what you have described you have low probe count and supply block, that is 2 problems. So lets fix the low probe count 1st, because this is the base of all basics to have a very stable and good economy to get the units you want later in the game.
* Hot key your Nexus to 3 & 6 (or 4 & 6)
* Hit your hot key and click "E" to build a probe, you will notice that your fingers don't move far from the 2 hot keys and its easier for you to remember to build them
* Keep building probes till you have 28~30 probes (double click on one probe to select all probes on the screen that you are seeing at the moment)
* Each base should have 24 probes (on minerals) + 6 (on gas) = 30 probes per base to have best efficiency
* Practice until you don't need to keep reminding yourself to build probes

Once you have no problem building probes, then lets focus on not supply blocking yourself. This will require your eyes to roll to the top right off & on. Here is some tips on how to not supply block yourself:-
* Always take a peek at the top right corner AFTER you've build a unit, as this makes it easy for you to know whether you are nearing your max supply or not
* The next question you might face is how far supply should I stay ahead? You won't want to have 10/100 supply when you know you can't make tons of units in next 10 secs. Tips is if you are able to build 10 supply of units (4 stalkers I think), then most probably you need 2 pylons (1 pylon is 8 supply) with some extra supply to get some probes at the mean time too.
* Also do this until 2nd nature!

Hope what I type was simple enof for you to understand ^-^ . After fixing that 2 problem, most probably you'll need to learn some timings when to get more probes and attacking units and build orders. Till then, good luck have fun!!!

I don't see how having your nexus on 2 hotkeys will help at all. 2 hotkeys may give you some leeway for misclicking but you want to be at the point where you don't even have to think for you hotkeys.

None of you mentioned chronoboost either. Chronoboost is excellent. If you are unsure when to use chronoboost or having problems with not using it fast enough always chronoboost your upgrades and if you think you may be in danger or are planning aggression chronoboost your military buildings(robo bay warpgates etc) or if you think you have some spare time or lack of probes chronoboost your nexus for the extra probes.

Quick Comments

Ruski:

[Shana]

Originally Posted by Lewis

I don't see how having your nexus on 2 hotkeys will help at all. 2 hotkeys may give you some leeway for misclicking but you want to be at the point where you don't even have to think for you hotkeys.

That is my preference which might not work for other people. The only reason for me to have 2 hotkeys is when my fingers is around 7,8,9,0 keys I don't need to fly my fingers back to 3 to build probes and do some chrono boost on other buildings. I see a lot of pros having multiple hotkeys for nexus but this method helps me in my game, anyone can tie their keys to where they want.

Originally Posted by Lewis

None of you mentioned chronoboost either. Chronoboost is excellent. If you are unsure when to use chronoboost or having problems with not using it fast enough always chronoboost your upgrades and if you think you may be in danger or are planning aggression chronoboost your military buildings(robo bay warpgates etc) or if you think you have some spare time or lack of probes chronoboost your nexus for the extra probes.

Thanks for point that out. I purposely left it out since it is just to fix one problem at a time. Chrono boosting will come after fixing building probes consistently & not get supply blocked.

I wanted to make it simpler for Ruski to understand and not bombard him with too much things to take care. After all I am once a bronze and I understand how hard it is to take care all the task at one go. Improving step by step is more relaxing and easier than improving big big steps in one go...

[Lewis]

Originally Posted by Shana

That is my preference which might not work for other people. The only reason for me to have 2 hotkeys is when my fingers is around 7,8,9,0 keys I don't need to fly my fingers back to 3 to build probes and do some chrono boost on other buildings. I see a lot of pros having multiple hotkeys for nexus but this method helps me in my game, anyone can tie their keys to where they want.



Thanks for point that out. I purposely left it out since it is just to fix one problem at a time. Chrono boosting will come after fixing building probes consistently & not get supply blocked.

I wanted to make it simpler for Ruski to understand and not bombard him with too much things to take care. After all I am once a bronze and I understand how hard it is to take care all the task at one go. Improving step by step is more relaxing and easier than improving big big steps in one go...

I personally use 4 since its close to my build drone/probe hotkeys. About the chronothats why i put some things like if you have alot of energy and you think you need probes then chrono nexus or are just upgrading then it speeds it up.

[Ruski]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the tips, starting to really practice my pylons and probes and dealing with my anxiety. The 2v2's were awesome Futureboy, I had an awesome time and looking forward to playing with you again soon.

[ROOT`iaguz]

There's a huge thread on TL.net about it but I Morrow put it most succinctly.

"How to get 300 apm? Try to do everything at once as fast as you can"

That's basically it. Practice until that happens, when every action you make is without thought.

[VandaL]

http://blip.tv/day9tv

go to the archives and look for through the first few dailies. i can't remember which one exactly it is but day9 goes through the core basics of starting out, such as supply blocking, army grouping, expanding and worker counts oh and shift clicking.
very important and useful for beginners!
-my apologies for not remembering which one exactly it is.

anyway glhf!

[Aights]

Honestly... if you tried to keep consistent with just pylons and probe and you fail, the only problem is you, how to solve this?
Just keep repeating, do it constantly
Maybe even just keep doing the same build and refine them
That's how Koreans are so good, they just stick with 1 build and refine it to the smallest detail

[ToRFutureBoy]

Yeah, practice does indeed make perfect. And already in the last week or so, I have noticed my game pick up a bit. I am remembering to build probes, especially when I expand, It's suc a waste when you have an exp and only 10 probes mining from it and a full (or even oversaturated) main base.
I am only looking at the very basics before stepping to anything harder, so for me, it's probes, exps and units. Oh and trying to get my 4 gate timing down.

[KamiGami]

One thing I do to get my macro much better is open up a agame vs ai, and then max out on probes and pylons. Get the real basics down perfect, and then add on not missing warp ins. When you can do this without much effort you wont be bronze.

[Ruski]

Originally Posted by KamiGami

One thing I do to get my macro much better is open up a agame vs ai, and then max out on probes and pylons. Get the real basics down perfect, and then add on not missing warp ins. When you can do this without much effort you wont be bronze.

Yeah that does help a bit but when you go against a human its a bit different. You may lose workers by a drop, a death ball might destroy some proxy pylons. I actually decided to use the lockout time to just practice my macro game on NA server so it doesnt ruin my SEA grade.

Vs ai I use to practive precise timings like my 4 gate and other strats that rely specifically on core timings. Not to say you cant practice macro on vs ai but its more realistic if I practice on ladder more.

Ty for the advice though, I know I still need work on my macro but it will take time and practise.

[Konayuki]

Agree with iaguz, just keep practicing and you'll get it. SC2 seems similar to piano to me. All about practice!

[FSGauL]

Hey bro, just a few things which helped with those slumps where you get supply blocked and have not enough harvesters.

1. for x bases you have, build x supply buildings at a time, OR as zerg always put in an overlord for every inject spawning round.
2. try constantly to tab back to your command center/nexus and even if it involves queuing workers, just make sure there always building. and then after a while youll just get used to it and you wont need to que as much
3. if your floating minerals.. BUILD GATEWAYS/RAX (simple but effective )
4. set a goal at the start of each game to not float over 1750 minerals throughout the game, if you can last for about ten minutes you should be on the road to macro improvement.

just a few tips from a silver :/ hope it helps though

Quick Comments

x5.NotoriouS:

sound advice mate

[x5.NotoriouS]

Originally Posted by AmazR

)

really? 10char