[deL]

I have been considering hosting some lower-league tournaments lately as a change of pace and I thought clan events are something you BSG players rarely get to experience. Some of the most exciting events recently have been clan-based and I know for TA in particular our BSG members were there cheering on the team during their SEACL run.

There are a decent number of individual tournaments for you guys but I was wondering if there are any BSG clans or clans with a significant number of BSG players like TA has that could help form a small clan league.

Additionally, would a regular clan competition encourage the bigger clans to start recruiting some BSG players for development or fun, and would it encourage more BSG players to form clans?

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this!

Cheers,
deL

EDIT: List of suggestions

• ToR
• nDL
• LOS
• QED
• TA
• VB
• FaDe
  

Quick Comments

	rezyn8:	Good initiative
	Maynarde:
	ToRSpartaz:

[Benji]

Additionally, would a regular clan competition encourage the bigger clans to start recruiting some BSG players for development or fun, and would it encourage more BSG players to form clans?

Quite a few of the higher level clans exist to create practice environments for the players. For these clans to pick up BSGP players, it would require a change in focus of the clan to something more social, and even then what would the gain be? If the tourney had a prizepool worth noting, it would attract smurfs, and if it didn't, it'll be ignored by the higher level clans.

I'm always hesitant about hosting lower level tourneys as well, as it encourages players NOT to get better, to stay around X or Y skill level so they can be the big fish in the small pond.

[Maynarde]

I'm down with it, will keep checking this forum for progress

I'm a Gold level Zerg that has been told I play more of a Diamond level. Even though I disagree, I do well when I ladder may not be in Gold for long :P

If any BSG clans want me, message me here or in game.

[TAminimat]

Originally Posted by Benji

I'm always hesitant about hosting lower level tourneys as well, as it encourages players NOT to get better, to stay around X or Y skill level so they can be the big fish in the small pond.

I don't know any BSG players that want to stay in B, S or G. I think its a good idea.

Quick Comments

TAMrAnderson:

Good point!

[Benji]

Originally Posted by TAminimat

I don't know any BSG players that want to stay in B, S or G. I think its a good idea.

Thats because theres no money there, add money and people will hang around quite alot more.

[nard]

Originally Posted by Benji

Thats because theres no money there, add money and people will hang around quite alot more.

and also increase the likelihood of smurfs.

BSG tournaments are sadly over policed here.

its fine that smurfs are detected and hence banned. what about those who are genuinely good yet for some reason cant attain an MMR good enough to get a promotion to plat yet. they are still BSG with possibly the mechanics/skill of a plat and these are also DQ for having higher mechanics.

that said, a bsg clanleague would give genuine BSGers a taste of competition and perhaps spur them on to improve. still a good idea nonetheless.

[Satu]

Originally Posted by Benji

I'm always hesitant about hosting lower level tourneys as well, as it encourages players NOT to get better, to stay around X or Y skill level so they can be the big fish in the small pond.

I agree, I got to masters league before I could win a BSG or GPD on my way. The good players are too good. (Or rushes are too imba)

[crAzerk]

I'm always hesitant about hosting lower level tourneys as well, as it encourages players NOT to get better, to stay around X or Y skill level so they can be the big fish in the small pond.

I really love the last phrase of this quote.

But it's entirely true, with the whole money issue attracting smurfs and the such. A while back I had an impulse to sponsor some money for a BSG tournament and plan one, but after talking to some of the experienced organizers of BSG events and other people, I decided against it.

It's sad that the pitfalls of this exist, because I (and probably others like del?) really do want to help out the BSG players and make their experience a more fun and exciting one.

[|Erasmus|]

I agree with the whole "don't have money in a BSG tourney" thing.

What I think would be awesome (but a lot of administration effort, sadly) would be to have multiple clan leagues run with a promotion/relegation system, and seed new teams into the leagues by way of the players ladder rankings.

Maybe try and get a money prize awarded to the top league too, so we can get some of the established teams (ngen, TA, aLt, etc.) putting forward their strong lineups as something for all the other clans to aspire to getting to play against.

[DeNile]

As a bronze player wanting to get better. I like the idea of non profit lower tier tournaments or clan leagues. For some, the encouraement to get better is to win at these tournaments and as not everyone has the ability or the time to improve to higher leagues this is there chance to feel the pressure and excitement of competition.

Saying that there is the issue of policing such events. For the case of smurfs and how some players who may not ladder often or efectivly could be overskilld and judged that way for the tournament. This is an issue that has no ready made answer. The idea of clan based bsg tournaments or leagues may help to solve this issue as a clan can have a separate chat channel and offshot that focus on the development of these players. The head of that clans bsg section would then be the moderator of who he judges to be to good for said tournaments.(this could be done diplomatically of course I'm just simplifying it) Similar to how a martial arts instructor decides when your ready for the next belt therefore if u enter a tournament and u are to good for your rank you and your master is reprimanded.

It would prevent smurfs if tournaments were run this way thru clans because any regular offenders would be easy to single out. And as this would be a offshoot of the main clan it would not interfere with there high lvl training to much and would hopefully developed skilled players to soon join them for such esteemed competions such as seacl.

Just an idea from a lowly bronze

[Maynarde]

Some of the things you can offer instead of money for BSG clan tournament players are:

1. Sexy sc2sea achievements
2. Coaching from Masters / Grand Masters
3. Eternal BSG glory when one moves on to the higher tiers.

These things are something a BSG player would love to win, but a smurfing pro wouldn't. Just my 2 cents.

[VB_WhiplashJC]

VB would definitely be interested.

[deL]

Originally Posted by Benji

Quite a few of the higher level clans exist to create practice environments for the players. For these clans to pick up BSGP players, it would require a change in focus of the clan to something more social, and even then what would the gain be? If the tourney had a prizepool worth noting, it would attract smurfs, and if it didn't, it'll be ignored by the higher level clans.

I'm always hesitant about hosting lower level tourneys as well, as it encourages players NOT to get better, to stay around X or Y skill level so they can be the big fish in the small pond.

The prize will be very small if anything, it's more about letting the BSG players have something to participate in and get their name in results threads. At least the prize will not present a very good return for the time investment (team leagues require a lot of organisation and last several weeks... turning up each night for a month to win a $10 voucher or a $30 mouse or something is not really worth it). I have also been around long enough to realise problems with smurfing and have my own ways of identifying and dealing with it. The prize could also be something like coaching, or a showmatch against with a top player of their choice

I don't think clans should underestimate bringing on Gold/Plat players as an 'academy' type player, especially if they already offer coaching (the TA players who offer coaching give reduced prices to TA members). Rossi joined TA at around Gold level and look at him now

Guys I am not asking for your opinions on smurfing or rules or prizes or whatever I am going to handle that myself - right now I just want to know which clans exist out there with a BSG presence, or if any clans that are BSG only would wish to compete, or if any BSG players would consider forming or joining long-term clans in order to participate in something like this.

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by deL

Guys I am not asking for your opinions on smurfing or rules or prizes or whatever I am going to handle that myself - right now I just want to know which clans exist out there with a BSG presence, or if any clans that are BSG only would wish to compete, or if any BSG players would consider forming or joining long-term clans in order to participate in something like this.

Yes, I'm interested in joining a long-term clan to participate in something like this. Get on board BSG people.

[BaKaiNu]

I would honestly say BSG clan war would work and smurfing would not be such as issue, or at all in fact. The main issue I can see is, it encourages people to stay in BSG for a long period of time, which may or not benefit the clan in a whole, especially if the clan is seeking to advance their players to be more competitive. There are already several BSG clans out there if I can name out of my head, ToR, nDL, LOS...

Quick Comments

	deL:	Yay someone gets it.
	[TA]LoSt:	Gets the point.. More of this please!
	TAMrAnderson:	Great post!
	TAavanar:	nnnnice

[Benji]

I don't think clans should underestimate bringing on Gold/Plat players as an 'academy' type player, especially if they already offer coaching (the TA players who offer coaching give reduced prices to TA members). Rossi joined TA at around Gold level and look at him now

Yet to get a single 'Rossi', you need to take on quite alot of lower level players, which completely changes the dynamics of the team and how it works. TA have a very large number of players, and that works for them, but it doesn't work for all of us.

Theres more than 1 way to run a team, and just because it works for TA doesn't mean every clan needs to change to match it, even if you try and force the issue by creating events like this which is obviously created to benefit TA and your team structure.

Quick Comments

	deL:	Missed the point, son ;(
	NvPinder:	whhaaaaaaaat
	Champi:	relax
	TAMrAnderson:	Not a vaild point
	Nvdeth:	nope

[deL]

Originally Posted by BakaInu

I would honestly say BSG clan war would work and smurfing would not be such as issue, or at all in fact. The main issue I can see is, it encourages people to stay in BSG for a long period of time, which may or not benefit the clan in a whole, especially if the clan is seeking to advance their players to be more competitive. There are already several BSG clans out there if I can name out of my head, ToR, nDL, LOS...

There are going to be people who want no more from the game than to sit in their current BSG league and play at that level, and that is fine. I don't think there will be too many players who are going to stop laddering just to play in a clanleague every couple of weeks and if they do but still maintain a high enough level to be competitive who cares.

Of course players who feature a lot in these events are going to have people checking out their accounts all the time and if there's anything suspicious like throwing games in match history to stay in a low division that is going to become apparent. If they put in the effort to cover up these thrown matches to make it look believable then they are kidding themselves and wasting a lot more of their own time than anyone else's.

Most of the players interested in the competitive aspect of SC2 though have the drive to keep improving and climbing up the ranks and those players will flourish and go on to hopefully represent their clan in higher leagues. Players who are happy with competing in BSG without any intention or the spare time to dedicate to getting better are also welcome.

Originally Posted by Benji

Yet to get a single 'Rossi', you need to take on quite alot of lower level players, which completely changes the dynamics of the team and how it works. TA have a very large number of players, and that works for them, but it doesn't work for all of us.

Theres more than 1 way to run a team, and just because it works for TA doesn't mean every clan needs to change to match it, even if you try and force the issue by creating events like this which is obviously created to benefit TA and your team structure.

Hi I am Benji and I think everything is supposed to be serious and for ESPORTS and have never heard of fun. Also anything anyone ever does is only to benefit their own people and not meant to include everyone even though I never thought that maybe people get inspiration or ideas from their friends and teammates rather than fabricate them to benefit them.

Seriously man. This is outrageous - I wanted to dedicate some spare time to another event and have had enough of working with the same high-level players for a while and with the recent win by TA I had my mind on team leagues. The obvious conclusion is making a team league for low-ranked players and I don't see how this is to benefit TA - I am going to donate some of my own money to a team league that MIGHT be won by TA and go back into the clan? DEVIOUS! Oh wait I could just run an in-house event like we have in the past... FOILED!

Or you could be a sane and rational human being and see it as an event that gives purpose and fun to some BSG level players from TA and elsewhere who would otherwise not get to play in a team format. Heaven forbid I encourage BSG teams to form or let other teams know about this event so they might take notice of some low ranked players and decide whether they want to be included or not. OK I admit it I am worse than Hitler.

Quick Comments

	Champi:	+1
	TAMrAnderson:
	TAAmnesiac:	Hell yea!
	TAriiChard:
	NvPinder:	<3 for logic
	TADivinity:
	TAavanar:

[Zanderax]

I'm all for the idea. Keep me posted.

[DeNile]

Well to calm ppl down can I just add I would be keen to play and join a clan for these comps

[TAMrAnderson]

I love this idea
Imo there shouldn't even be any prize money, let people play for pride and fun