Hi, I´m trying to make ling infestor since its easier than Muta ling bane. I´ve been trying to practice with a and a friends. With this style i dont know when to drop a third. If i get it at minute 8 (Against the standard 1 rax, 1 factory helion build with expo). They can all-in me with a force of marines and some tanks and destroy my third and probably my natural if i commit to it. If I get it really late (Min 13) then I´m obviously on a huge disadvantage, and since this style cant deny drops before they land you also have to deal with drops, you cant drone because you need units to stop pushes, so you dont have any eco and you cant continue to produce lings, also you cant tech at all.
Here I´ll post 2 replays , playing vs a . Any feedback is welcomed I seriously need help, I´ve searched a lot but it seems like no one has the same problem as me.
Dont be afraid to just drop a macro hatch before your third and make units. Whilst you should still be making sure you drop your third before the Terran, you can definitely get into a safe position first and still be solid economically.
I've found that you definitely need to go banes for this build first - if even just the tech building and not actually morph units. It delays you a little, but a few banes with a couple of spines can completely defend early Terran aggression, and in the long run its incredibly cheap too.
13 minutes can be okay - but you should well and truly be getting through your 2-2 upgrades, and investors should be popping. This is all possible on 2 base.
Ideally, once 2-2 is half way you want to be going Hive. Again, this completely depends on what T is doing and the tempo of the game. It also depends what time you actually do get the third.
You should also be splitting your army up and scattering them around to each base to defend drops. Realise that this playstyle is weak versus drops and banshee, so you need to make up for that.
Remember that its very hard for terran to just a-move through the middle because of fungle - so its okay for you to split yourself up in this manner.
tl;dr: Once infestor is out you can expand very easily. Try and be a little greedy and get the third before this with ling/bling, but it is okay to just take a macro first and unit-up.
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I wanna be
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Like no one ever was
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sorry man but i couldn't download the replays for some reason. Anyway when i go ling festor i get double upgrades and a macro hatch b4 a 3rd. i get my 3rd when the hellions piss off and with a macro hatch you can get enough plus 1 plus 1 ling to crush the 10 min timing attack.
You can survive without getting a bane nest till late if you go double ups+infestor if they don't do the hellion marine medivac push, since that timing is meant to punish this type of play, and since you will be ling heavy with no banes your lings get crushed, especially if they find a nice choke. However if they do the tank marine timing mass lings can stop it, + your infestors can be out to help if you delay the push enough by causing him to siege when he doesn't want to by either good creep spread or running your ling army in to scare him and make him siege.
If you macro well and don't take too much damage, you can be 3/3 with ling ultra infestor by the 15-16min mark, making it a very strong time to attack. Your advantage here is the quick upgrades so you really need to attack asap otherwise you just give the terran more time to catch up in upgrades and lose the advantage. I have a replay of this on my other comp, I'll upload it when I can.
I agree with TAhairline, the bane nest in the early game is pretty vital I've found. The marine hellion timing attack that is so very common is brutally hard to stop without banelings, but fairly easy with them, usually you have 1-1 by then too. I do reckon you can just grab a third though before macro hatch, its really rare to lose your third unless you really mess up a timing or you're playing some beast terran
Its good to build a nice army of lings as you take your third and wait T to do their first timing attack to kill our third, clean that up with ling bane. Drone the third greedily while getting infestors and upgrades/hive, Like divinity said you need to split you army to defend drops.
Lets say your army is 60 2-2 lings and 12 infestors. put 2 infestors and 15 lings at you main and furthest base, so usually 4th and main. Terrans will usually ''multiprong'' drops those spots, or in my experience drop in one spot and then another cuz they forgot about one of them :]
Leave the remainder of the army in the center and have the towers for if he moves out. Get spines to defend too because lots of terrans like to drop while they do their main push. You want a quick hive and a fast 3-3 adrenal. Where you go with hive units is up to you. The style plays nicely into ultras but if hes metagaming them and you can sneak a GS where he wont scan by all means get broods
Edit. I watched the first game against rampage up until the 14 minute mark where you lost your third. Now in some respects I think you did a good job and nearly cleaned up his push and I can tell you were pretty nervous in your play. However a huge problem you had in that game was rather stuttery early game macro. By which I mean idle larva and minerals over 500 in the opening part of the game. Although it doesnt seem like a lot, it does slow you down a huge amount and allowed terran to have a 2-2 bio tank army at your door before you were ready.
The problems started with dealing with hellion harrass at the start. I LOVE the evo placement, I do that every game, but I really didnt like your spine in the mineral field, I put it next to the evo to extend the wall and further defend with another queen and spine. This gives you the safety to really focus on not missing those key drone cycles and injects for the first 5-7 minutes. I would definitely recommend you play a few games against the AI and drill out never getting supply blocked or missing a drone cycle for the first 10 minutes. It sounds ridiculous and you probably think you do it anyway, but sloppy early game macro will lose you games consistently.
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Last edited by TASlowHands; Sun, 29th-Apr-2012 at 1:03 PM.
You want to avoid a baneling nest a lot of the time though. Don't look at defending the marine/hellion push like "Oh I must engage his army and kill it near my base" look at it in this aspect.
"Since he is moving out of his base, I have the opportunity to counter attack and delay him as long as I possibly can."
The biggest issue with Zerg's using this strategy is they never counter attack, you always need 20 or so lings around the map near your opponent's base just so you can go for a counter attack and do as much damage as possible. Using a banelings nest to just defend timings is awesome and it helps so much, but think of it like that.
You are rushing hive with 3/3 upgrades and tier 3 units, if you use banelings in the early/mid game you are simply taking away your gas count to deal with things that can be >VERY EASILY< dealt with by other means.
You also need sick creep spread with this build, the biggest way to beat the marine/hellion push is creep spread everywhere so you limit those little "nooks and crannies" that they can fit in off creep to kill you.
I hope I helped you, if you have any questions just ask again on this thread I probably forgot a lot of shit.
Sorry, I think I should add that I like to drone seriously hard and avoid making lings at all. Hence why I justify the 50 gas for a bane nest, so that I can still make minimal lings in the event that I do need to morph blings
Notably also, I Only morph the blings if the Terran is pushing up into the natural - like, start morphing whilst he kills my shit. I may lose some stuff, but if its -that- type of push, I generally survive and am then definitely ahead. Im talking <10 mins btw
___________________________________
I wanna be
The very best!
Like no one ever was
Dooo dooo dodo!
I generally play it by ear when it comes to dropping the third; it all comes down to whether or not I can kill the hellions and gain map control. I drone to almost ideal saturation on my two bases and then make a bunch of lings to kill his hellions, and then, if I have map control, I take a third and my 3 other gasses, while throwing down a couple of evos. My win rate vs T is something like 85% at diamond level, it's a pretty easy matchup for zerg at such a low level as far as I can see.
Possibly making extra queens could help with defending these pushes, not only do they have high dps but they can spread creep and stay alive for as long as they have energy for transfuse.
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