[locke04]

majority of the zerg players i faced always defeating me. i am already getting to the point where i hate the race. i just want to know what is the best strategy to beat zerg players?

[Lawlesskid]

scout and counter them, prevent a 2nd expand.

[Satu]

If you want to win, 4gate.

If you want to improve, 3gate expand.

If you want to wait a while to mess with them and THEN win, 3gate robo.

[CagnacciKid]

As Lawless said, prevent their expansions. Keeping them on one base is ideal, but even containing them to two bases can give you an advantage. Just try and stay equal with them expansion-wise, and make sure you can out-macro them - and as Day9 said recently, the less variety in your army, the bigger it will be, and the better you can bounce back from an army trade. If you're in Bronze or Silver then army composition probably isn't as important as having a bigger army with constant pressure on your opponent. Chances are, he won't be able to effectively counter your army if he's stuck on 1-2 bases.

So basically, take expos, macro out massive blocks of one or two units, and KEEP THE PRESSURE ON YOUR OPPONENT! He's less likely to commit units to a risky harass when he has 12 Stalkers beating down his door.

This goes for TvZ too, I think.

EDIT: Watch out for sneaky drops/Nydus's, though. I've played games where my Zerg opponent was contained on one base, but I got sloppy, my pressure slipped and I got hit by an Overlord/Hydralisk drop, and lost the game. Also make sure you have something like a Stalker or Chargelot at each expo, to keep them from expanding where you can't see.

Cheers.

[PiG]

9 pylon, use this probe to scout.
12 gate
13 gas
If your probe finds a hatch first build, cancel your gas and build a forge. Chrono zealots out towards the zerg expansion and build a pylon and a bunch of cannons behind the mineral line of the natural.
watch as your opponent types gg.

[aztecx]

Originally Posted by Lawlesskid

scout and counter them, prevent a 2nd expand.

lol zerg is the reactionary race.

[Sagachii]

forge fe, or 3 gate expo + robo

[Meatex]

throw down a pylon at their natural then 4 gate or 3 gate expo ^^

[Satu]

Originally Posted by aztecx

lol zerg is the reactionary race.

Yeah, if you're vsing a zerg, you just go by your strategy. If you look to scout the zerg and counter what they do, they will simply re-counter you, and cause you to not actually achieve much from the first attempt to counter.

Thats why terrans and protoss often use standard builds vs zerg, just so they can counter most zerg aggression or put their own aggression on to the zerg.

[MrSandman]

Play it by ear. If you see a hatch first then by all means 4 gate but if they're going pool with gas guard your ramp. I think one of the biggest advantages a toss can have over a zerg is to hide tech. If you put it in the middle of your base and be wary of suicide overlords it's a huge advantage. An underused tech path is the twi council. Pushing out with lots of 2/2 gateway units can shock a zerg expecting collossi or phoenix.

But I think most important is to not take too many risks with expansions. A zerg will always have cheap fast units that can run into your base before you know it. Watch the mini-map, hide tech and be ready to defend at all times.

[NobleSix]

zerg is a very problematic opponent for me...Roaches are the worse...if u have a mindset like me to 4gate every game (which is a good strat in BSG) u have to scout really well and find that roach warren. go straight into robo to pump out immortals always works for me but u have to scout the warren early

[Next_rim]

Check out my forge-FE into stargate play. I've been having a lot of success with it lately, can supply fresh replays against masters opps too if you want.

Basically, you do a fast expand into natural behind cannon wall, then rush mothership and voidrays, grab very safe 3rd and 4th, then snipe all his expos and slowly drain his overblown greedy economy. Games normally last past 30 mins, but it's the least annoying and hassle-free way to approach a PvZ. It can get very micro intensive, especially early game, but it's still very good and has smooth learning curve.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=1394

[matthras]

What skill level are you? If you're in Masters I can't say much.

If they go Hatch first, do as aLtPiG suggested. ONLY when they Hatch first, because Cannon Rush + Zealot Pressure is more easily defendable otherwise (at least, in my experience).

If you're anywhere below Diamond, then learn a bunch of 2 base attacks starting from either FFE or 3 Gate Sentry expand.

FFE into Stargate (without the Mothership, lol) is powerful since most low level Zergs won't know what to do against Phoenix play, so it'll buy you plenty of time to work up a huge Gateway army. coLCrunCher does a fairly unrefined FFE > Stargate > +3 Chargelot Archon in his recent games vs GoldenfOu in the GSPA (it's on Husky's channel)

But otherwise it might be easier to go for some variation of 6/7 Gate and you can choose from having +1 to Blink Stalkers, etc. Blink Stalkers for example allows for a nice transition into DTs and Chargelot Archon.

Again, this is all dependent on the build your Zerg opponent is going for and there are several other factors that have already been mentioned. You can't just take a build, execute it and hope to win.

[AxSGRiM]

B/S = 4 Gate
G = 3 Gate expand into 6-8 Gate pressure with Upgrades
P+ = Reactionary play. Scouting and countering the unit composition, harassing the Zerg.

These are general good builds.

Forge Fast Expand into Blink Stalkers on 6 gates with 2 2 upgrades
Forge Fast Expand into 2 Stargate play back into gateway army
3 Gate expo into Collosus w/ Upgrades and added gateways.
1 Gate expo into Gateway play w/ Archons or HTs
DT Rushing

[Nobunaga]

There's no "ultimate" strat that beats Zerg. If you're looking for one, you're probably at the macro up anything and win because you just have more stuff than them stage.

[Malik]

9 pylon, 9 forge, 9 cannon a mainstay of every protoss ^^

Quick Comments

	ToRDeathsFang:	It's getting kind of old. You must not be very good if you lose to cannon rushes
	SkyBreaker:	Not very helpful.

[Primex]

Just, 3 gate expand is what I have found best against a spawning pool/gas then hatch build.

[SkyBreaker]

There's not a single; "best strat" against any race. However if you're struggling in PvZ, try opting for a 3gate expand opening; and teching appropriately based on your scouting (either by poking the front and/or hallucination).

Also, if you're still having trouble with PvZ; have a look at this link (iNcontroL's PvZ coaching lesson). Even though it's from a few patches ago, it's still highly relevant!

Quick Comments

Malik:

Its a valid strat tbh but i was probly outline for saying it

[dannnyds]

Maybe try a 4gate and leave a pylon at their natural to delay the expo

[porkchop]

there is no best strat against any race ,

this was posted in my thread, TOSS TIMINGS,
it is helping me alot,

Learn these:

PvZ:

6-pool - 2:50
10-pool 3:45
5RR - 4:45
7RR - 5:00
Roach Ling all-in: 6:45
15 hatch - 2:10
21 hatch - 3:10
Fast 3rd - 6:15-7:00
Fast 4th - 9:30-11:00
Normal 3rd - 11:30
Normal 4th - 16:00
2-base roaches - 9:30
2-base hydra - 10:30
2-base muta - 10:00
Banelings...anywhere between 6:00 and 11, depends on what they throw in with banelings.
Fast infestors - 9:00
Fast lair - 11:00
Broodlords - off 4 bases, at 18-21:00
Ultra - anytime off 6-8 gases.
Hydra doomdrop - 8:30-11:30 (depends on how much drones they skip and how much shit they want to bring).

PvT:
MarineSCV all-in - 4:45
Fast banshee cloaked - 6:50
4x hellion drop - 7:10
3rax push - 6:45
3rax stim + shield - 7:20
2-rax expo - 5:15
1-rax expo - 4:50
Raven 2x tanks marine push - 8:00-8:45, depends on how much marines they want
Raven 5xbanshee 3x siege push - 11:30
3rd base - 11:00
4th base - 16:00
Ghost push - 7:45
Medivacs pop off fast expo - 7:45-8:45, depends on bunker and marine count.
6x ghosts with bio and medivacs push - 13:40
2:2 bio push - 10:30
1(+1):1:1 push - 10:15
9 vikings ready - 14:50

PvP (or your own timings)
10-gate 4wpgt - 4:55 (zealot only)
12-gate 4wpgt - 5:15 (zealot + stalker)
13-gate 4wpgt - 5:45 (stalker+sentry)
1-base colossus rush - 7:40
1-base blink stalkers - 6:00
1-gate expo - 4:40
Forge-FE-stargate - you get our first voidray at 7:30, mothership 10:15.
Forge-FE-6-gate - 8:45 push
1-base DT - 7:40
1-base voidray - 7:00
3-gate expo - 5:30
2-gate robo push - 6:15 (with 2x immortals)
Cannon rush - varies per map and style, usually 3:15 first cannon is done, if not interrupted.
2-base colossus - 11:30 first coloss pops, 12:45 upgrade done
2-base HT - 9:30 archive up, 11:15 u have 4x storm HT to push
1-base HT - 8:15 u have 2x HT with storm and 9 chargelots. If you skip charge, you can get by 7:40 1x HT with storm.
3rd base - 12:00
4th base - 16:00

Exact push timings vary by +/- 20 seconds depending on map and spawn. There are also a bunch more, but they are not so common. I'm diamond-to-be-masters protoss, played slightly over 600 games + 300 games in beta. It took me about a month to learn all these, and now I can just write them straight off top of my head. As people said, keep playing, and you will gradually learn.

Keep in mind, that timings beyond 8 minutes are vague, since that's about the time when people get all their desired tech and econ and start bashing on each other. Depending on damage done, everything you or ur opp does can get thrown off.

Quick Comments

	dKiWi:	Wow kickass post
	Nemo:	Awesome ! Bookmarked.