SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

**HDPhoenix** · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 1:41 AM

Current Tournaments in the TSL
Starcraft 2 SEA Community Opens, Weekly - Community Class Tournament
Singapore Starcraft League Jan, Feb, Mar - A Class Tournament
Singapore Amateur League Jan, Feb, Mar - Community Class Tournament
PK (PhoenixKelly) Invitational - S Class Tournament

Organizers/Shoutcasters on board:
aLtnirvAnA
Unstable-TV
aLtKelly
HDPhoenix

Hey everyone,

If you're NOT a tournament organizer, community leader or shoutcaster, you're welcomed to read and have your own opinion but please refrain from posting as I would really like to get the main organizers' opinions on this.

League. A real league for the SEA server, where it isn't ruled by your ladder rankings but your actual tournament results. Now, I have talked to various people and all have expressed interest in setting up a league

The question is.. how?

This will be a VERY LONG READ but I hope you agree. If you are a tournament organizer and you would subscribe to this league, please reply and we'll see how we can add your tournaments into the official league, which I plan to kick off in January 2011 till March 2011.

My League is actually very simple in concept.

1. Get the tournament organizers together and outline the tournaments for the next quarter

2. Decide on a prize pool. This will determine the amount of "League Points" the tournament is worth (more on this later). The higher the prize pool, the higher the prestige, the higher the worth in League Points

3. Decide on the format of each tournament. 8-32 players? Single or Double Elimination? This will decide what % of the league points each player gets (more on this later)

LEAGUE POINTS

There are so many tournaments. How would you categorize them? The easiest way would be to rank them by their prize pool. I break them into 3 classes

S Class Tournament: Prize Pool above $500USD (I use USD so no one country in SEA is 'favored') - worth 500 League Points
A Class Tournament: Prize Pool between$500USD and $200USD - worth 250 League Points
B Class Tournament: Prize Pool below $200USD - worth 100 League Points
Community Tournament: No Prize Pool needed - worth 10-50 League Points, depending on frequency

e.g. Dogsi's Open - $300USD - A Class Tournament - 250 League Points total
e.g. FXOpen - $900AUD - S Class Tournament - 500 League Points total

Now that we have the total points worth for each tournament, lets look at how we distribute those points to the players

DISTRIBUTION BASED ON TOURNAMENT PERFORMANCE

This is where it can get tricky cause the balance has to be just right. The tournament winner should get the largest share of the points, but those that compete should also get something for participation. There are also multiple types of tournaments. Let me give two examples:

32 players, Single Elimination
1st Place - 24%
2nd Place - 12%
3rd-4th Place - 8%
5th-8th Place - 4%
9th-16th Place - 2%
17th-32th Place - 1%

For example, if I played in Dogsi's Open and got knocked out in the semifinals (placed 3th-4th Place), I would get 250 League Points (A Class Tournament) x 8%(for 3rd-4th Place) = 20 League Points

Another example if I played in the FXOpen and got knocked out in the 2nd round (9th-16th Place), I would get 500 League Points (S Class Tournament) x 2%(for 9th-16th Place) = 10 League Points

Currently, I have the % points for the following tournament types

8 player, Single Elimination
16 player, Single Elimination
32 player, Single Elimination
64 player, Single Elimination

8 player, Double Elimination
16 player, Double Elimination
32 player, Double Elimination

The actual % for each tournament placement is still open to discussion. If you sign your tournament up to be part of the league, I will email you the % points for your individual tournament.

SCORING and PLAYER RANKS

The scoring is the easiest part. I plan to use my background with WoW DKP systems, to create a simple league table. It'll be a simple matter of adding in players, noting their tournament placement and adding up points.

At the end of our first League, which runs for 3 months, we can crown our first SEA League Champion and be our first S Class Player of the League. The top 10 finishers will be ranked as A Class Players and the top 25 will be ranked A- Class Players

SIGNING UP YOUR TOURNAMENT

Tournament organizers can join the league very easily. Post your interest here and email me at MSS.Starcraft2@gmail.com and we'll set you up. I am looking for at least 5 tournaments a month and around 20 tournaments from January to March

Currently, I have the following tournaments in the pipeline, and are part of TSL:

SSL Jan, Feb, Mar - A Class Tournament
SAL Jan, Feb, Mar - Community Tournament
PK (PhoenixKelly) Invitation - S Class Tournament, to be around Valentine's Day

This is NOT set in stone. I hope to get good feedback from the various community leaders, tournament organizers and shoutcasters on how we can work together to put this across. It would REALLY build community for SC2 and most importantly, it would be important leverage for us to get corporate sponsorship; which I am sure we all eventually want to get into.

Let me know what you think!!

**HDPhoenix** · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 2:08 AM

FAQ:

1. What about local tournaments? For example, the SSL and SAL are local to Singapore, do they count towards TSL?

No, local tournaments do NOT count towards the TSL. Only tournaments open to the entire SEA server are counted. For local tournaments, there will be a local league, which would be all the TSL tournaments points + local tournaments points.

2. What is a tournament has more than 64 players for single elimination, e.g. 128 players. Do they get league points for participation if they ranked 67-128th place?

No, they don't. Beyond 64 players for single elimination and beyond 32 players for double elimination, the allocated points would be so small, I am not counting them in. If your tournament is very large, the League Points will start from 64th place for singles and 32th place for doubles

3. Are there any real perks to getting a league ranking? For example, if I got first in the league and am ranked S class, what's in it for me?

It depends on various tournament organizers, I will leave it to them but for my tournaments, I would grant you first seed and a guaranteed spot for all my organized tournaments. The perks given to you by other tournament organizers may differ

Also, eventually companies will be looking to sponsor players. Any S Class player will be on the top of their list

4. Once the 2nd League season starts, will I be able to keep my S class ranking? What about A Class or A- Class?

Similar to the Gladiator rankings in WoW, if you attain the highest rank of S class, you get to keep your S class rank, even if you don't perform in the following season. You'll always be S class. For A Class and A- Class, you get to keep it your rank for the following season but no further.

5. Is there a prize for ranking highly on the TSL?

The TSL is meant to be a united scoreboard for players across SEA. It would be an indication of your skill and can lead to invitations into various tournaments but for the TSL itself, there are no prizes involved.

6. The SEA League? Really? Why the bland name?

TSL sounds nice off the tongue and I like the "The" in TSL because it can easily swapped out for a sponsor's name when they do some in.

E.g. Gigabyte SEA League (GSL) - no punt intended ^_~

Got a question? Ask and I'll ask it to the FAQ

**nirvAnA** · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 2:14 AM

So if im understanding correctly, this is not an actual tournament league people play in, but a system that keeps track and ranks players according to their tournament results? Like the gosugamers/TL ladders?

Im assuming theres no extra prize for that but the purpose of this ranking will be to rank the players and seed them in the tournaments u plan to run or some super big SEA version (the PK invite in march?)like gsl?

My suggestions for the rankings would be instead of starting entirely from scratch, take into account the tournaments of the last 3 months. The game is barely 4 months old skill levels should not have changed much, ie winners of all these past tournaments are still the top players in SEA. And wont have to go through 3 months of qualifiers to select players. i.e even winners of small tournaments like edge,soft rev are already among the top in SEA.

Also, there have been 2 major tournaments bigger than anything else SEA has had, the 5K USD SEA invitational and the 5K AUD WD PSI Finals which should get some special S code points imo, ie glade/redarchon. Yea and kowi and yoon should get code S somehow. i really think it will be alot easier, in terms of logistics to have code S players auto invited + a few opens to select the players for the final but thats just my opinion.

**HDPhoenix** · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 2:41 AM

FML.. internet went out and I lost my reply to you. Let me see if I can it right this time ^^

Brilliant suggestions, Nirvana. Let me go through your various queries

Yes, its a tournament tracker and there is no additional prize pool for the TSL

The purpose is for personal glory, community awareness of players and for invitational tournaments, like the one Kelly and I are putting together

I totally see your point about having a league set up right now, based on past tournaments. It would paint a rather accurate picture of past performance.

However, SC2 is a really young game and most players just mastered bits and pieces of their game. I personally would want to start afresh and take it from there, imo. The TSL is just a tournament tracker, so there is no advantage/disadvantage with starting from scratch.

I would go with the majority on this, so lets hear what the other organizers/shoutcasters think. Start fresh in Jan or Create a league based on past results (game release till Dec)?

YES! Definitely the Blizzcon and WD Psi Storm would get bonus points due to their scope and prize pool. I would say it is an "SS Class" tournament and award it 1,000 League Points. I can't have it too high or it'll dwarf all other tournaments.

Thx Nirvana for your input. Can I convince you to throw your Community Opens and other tournaments behind this project?

**nirvAnA** · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 3:03 AM

imo it would be better for you if you just track them the way TL does it, i.e record every tournament result of any decent to big tourney you can find on your own.

this is so you dont need the organiser's approval (of course support sounds nice but i dont see how the organiser saying "yea use my tournament behind the project" helps, just more work for you getting approvals unless its because u want them affiliated with the TSL for corporate sponsorship but thats gonna be messy imo)

i mean if u want to just track results for seeds of course ure more than welcome to use the community opens and whatever tourney we host lol.

**HDPhoenix** · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 3:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

imo it would be better for you if you just track them the way TL does it, i.e record every tournament result of any decent to big tourney you can find on your own.

this is so you dont need the organiser's approval (of course support sounds nice but i dont see how the organiser saying "yea use my tournament behind the project" helps, just more work for you getting approvals unless its because u want them affiliated with the TSL for corporate sponsorship but thats gonna be messy imo)

i mean if u want to just track results for seeds of course ure more than welcome to use the community opens and whatever tourney i host lol.

Wonderful! I'll add your tournaments to the list. =D

Unstable · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 8:14 AM

I think this will be much much harder for you to track than you think. Some SEA players play alot of US/EU tournaments for the majority of the time. while this would give incentive for them to play in more SEA tournaments i just dont think its worth some of their time.

this would then technically be a flawed ranking because not everything is being taken into account

and if you did take into account other tournaments, it would just be too much work combing through every single tournaments results and looking for a SEA player

**kellyMILKIES** · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 10:58 AM

I think Phoenix is building a team of people to do this. Eventually we are planning to start a real company to do e-sports. We are in the midst of talks with various different group and people to get started.

Of course we can't keep track of EVERYTHING.

The point of being included in this ladder is to be #1, recognised by the community, #2, help players get handpicked by sponsors. We are looking to develop under-recognised players.

Ok I might not know what I'm saying, I just woke up. Will post something more detailed in a bit.

**HDPhoenix** · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unstable

I think this will be much much harder for you to track than you think. Some SEA players play alot of US/EU tournaments for the majority of the time. while this would give incentive for them to play in more SEA tournaments i just dont think its worth some of their time.

this would then technically be a flawed ranking because not everything is being taken into account

and if you did take into account other tournaments, it would just be too much work combing through every single tournaments results and looking for a SEA player

Morning Unstable! Greetings from Medan ^^

You're absolutely right which is why I wanted to get organizers and shoutcasters to 'register' their tournaments in the League, such that only those tournaments get tracked. Random players might take part in random tournaments, just like in soccer, there are 'exhibition' matches all the time but these matches will not be counted towards the official league.

With a set number of tournaments, players can be tracked and they know what to expect.

I was thinking all night about what Nirvana was saying about the TSL being just a seed tracker and nothing more. He was right to point out that there would have to be a nice prize at the end of the road to be worth the player's time. The question is, its easy to have a big tournament at the end of the league and invite the top 16 or 32 players to compete in it. The problem is, who would be the sponsor and what would the prize pool be?

Let's think about it more, and I'm sure MSS will find some sponsors to back up the League-end tournament around end March. If not, MSS may step up to the plate to sponsor it. The League-end tournament will be an S Class tournament as well

Unstable, is there any tournaments you would like to list in this? I would love to have your FXOpen in this. No obligation, just for seed tracking and an invitational tournament at the end of the League (Jan-Mar)

**HDPhoenix** · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyMILKIES

I think Phoenix is building a team of people to do this. Eventually we are planning to start a real company to do e-sports. We are in the midst of talks with various different group and people to get started.

Of course we can't keep track of EVERYTHING.

The point of being included in this ladder is to be #1, recognised by the community, #2, help players get handpicked by sponsors. We are looking to develop under-recognised players.

Ok I might not know what I'm saying, I just woke up. Will post something more detailed in a bit.

Basically what the cutie said =)

NvPinder · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 12:00 PM

fwiw i think TSL is a really bad name, since there's alrdy TSL = team liquid starleague, and there's TSL = Pro team in korea :P

Unstable · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPMoney

fwiw i think TSL is a really bad name, since there's alrdy TSL = team liquid starleague, and there's TSL = Pro team in korea :P

while i hate to agree with scrubs, this is true

And yea pheonix thats fine if everything pans out our tournaments will have qualifiers topen to everyone anyway so good chance for sea ppl to show their stuff!

**HDPhoenix** · Wed, 22nd-Dec-2010, 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unstable

while i hate to agree with scrubs, this is true

And yea pheonix thats fine if everything pans out our tournaments will have qualifiers topen to everyone anyway so good chance for sea ppl to show their stuff!

Ah... Nice catch JP. Well, the name isn't decided yet.

@ Unstable: Ok, what is your email? Lets catch up on which tournaments you are hosting and shoutcasting for the next quarter and lets add them into the "TSL" or whatever we end up calling it