[DemiseCloudy]

Hey

Im a high level protoss gold player playing at a plat level and i seem to struggle late game with zerg becasue all they seem to do is go mass mutas and take out my probe lines and i find it hard to come back from....

So any advice and ideas would help me out a real lot

Thanks

DemiseCloudy

[mGGAequitas]

put 2 cannons in each of your mineral lines once you scout he is going mutas this will delay the mutas, and give you time to bring your army to kill the mutas, make sure you pull your probes as soon as you see the mutas going to a mineral line.

If you get a couple of observers and pylons to scout on most maps you will be able to see mutas coming from a certain way which gives you even more time to put your army in position to stop the mutas.

You can also just have your army split up (stalkers in mineral lines and zealots/ sentries and wateva else at your front. if he attacks with all your stalkers out of position you can forcefield to buy time for your stalkers to join the fight (make sure you still leave a few stalkers in your mineral lines if the mutas arent in his main army attacking your front). having an observer on top of his army will let you know when the roach / ling or wateva is coming at you so you can bring your stalkers to the front sooner.

tldr: cannons, scout / map awareness/ split up army into mineral lines

[breadfan]

The patch with the phoenix buff has gone live, so have you looked at Stargate openings?

Just be careful not to over-commit to phoenixes or you might get owned by everything that isn't mutas

[DemiseCloudy]

Ok yeh thankyou Aequitas that does help a lot =D

So with the phoenixes how many would you reccomend to get before over commiting?

[|Erasmus|]

im not a good protoss player but, I think the general concensus is if you didn't open stargate you should never go phoenix to counter muta. It takes you so long to get out the stargate and start phoenix production that you will just fall behind due to how zerg production works and you will probably just keep losing small groups of phoenix to mutas unless you have godlike micro.

if the zerg is going mass muta, invest in 2-3 cannons per base, get blink and attack upgrades for stalkers, and tech to archons and tempar w/stom. Then because zerg will never kill your army, make 50 cannons so they can't base trade and push across the map (maybe exaggerating a bit, but it's sort of how it works if they got a really big muta flock).

[mGGAequitas]

yep erasmus is pretty much correct, unless you already had a stargate and pheonix production its better not to counter mutas with pheonixes (also no one will make mutas if you already had a stargate). however if you scout the spire as it just goes down you can make double stargate and make a bunch of pheonix to defend the problem with this is pheonixes take hella lot of micro and multitasking to use properly so it's better to just not use them until high diamond master level and also corrupters will fk up ur day since pheonixes do not do well against even a small number of corrupters.

Blink is probably the best way to deal with it since mutas are quite weak units a small group of stalkers can blink under them and tear the mutas to pieces quite quickly. Remember mutas are fast units made to harass, they stand no chance against an equal sized stalker army, if you put some stalkers near your minerals you are ppretty much safe.
Blink is also good as broodlords are common late game especially if they have a spire already.

Erasmus's last point is also really good at lower levels, because as i said mutas are not a good unit for an army, so if a person gets too many mutas you can simply just attack them and either they base race with the mutas (mutas will take forever to kill buildings) or they will try and defend with their ground army and the mutas. But in this case you should crush them unless they go mass spines for defence.

[syfChadMann]

Kill them before they get muta's?...

If you see alot of early lings and spines at their natural - they are getting muta's... get blink stalkers and/or High templar.. then when you have a decent ball, go kill them.. or if you have a decent number of blink stalkers already - kill him before he gets muta's.. or at least do damage before the muta ball gets too big.


Basically, if they invest into muta's there army can't usually engage you straight up, so the game usually ends in a base race - which muta's aren't great at.

with the amount of zergs opening muta's lately, you have to basically go +2 blink all in or double stargate phoenix opening to Colo.. well, thats what I do. That or 5gate Chargelot all in ^_^

Quick Comments

	ProAnnn:	mutas are imba in baserace :(
	TABjornbrandr:	counter-neg..

[DemiseCloudy]

haah nice =D ok thankyou guys so much that does help a lot and has got my confidence back up in late game zerg

thanks

DemiseCloudy

[EXCL]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

im not a good protoss player but, I think the general concensus is if you didn't open stargate you should never go phoenix to counter muta. It takes you so long to get out the stargate and start phoenix production that you will just fall behind due to how zerg production works and you will probably just keep losing small groups of phoenix to mutas unless you have godlike micro.

if the zerg is going mass muta, invest in 2-3 cannons per base, get blink and attack upgrades for stalkers, and tech to archons and tempar w/stom. Then because zerg will never kill your army, make 50 cannons so they can't base trade and push across the map (maybe exaggerating a bit, but it's sort of how it works if they got a really big muta flock).

If you want an fantastic example of what Erasmus just said, Day9 recently went over a game between LiquidHero vs Dimaga (i think thats right) showing Hero's general trend at defending mutas. I watched a bit out of curiousity and it showed good unit compositions for dealing with it and strategies for positioning your army when defending and atttacking. Worth watching I think it was a daily from last week, you'll find it in his blip.tv archives.

[QEDFridge]

One of the key factors for defending muta is leaving templar in your mineral lines.

The problem with muta is that they kill your map control, you cannot leave your base in fear of muta counter attack. the best you can do is tech to HT while defending. put a few cannons in your mineral lines, split up blink stalkers and distribute them throughout your bases while making the tech switch to templar.

Once storm is complete, all you have to do is leave a HT in each of your mineral lines and near main structures which will allow you to push out AND deal with the mutas. no doubt as you push out onto the map and regain that control, he will counter attack with the muta, at which point you can warp in a handful of stalkers where his muta are heading, fire off a storm from one of the HT's in your mineral line, and he pulls out. and during this whole time, you were pulling off a counter attack at his 4th/3rd.

As long as he tries to attack your mineral lines, you just need 1 good storm and a handful of stalkers while counter attacking yourself.

Once you begin to use HT's and Storm... muta stops becoming a big deal.

Hope that helps.

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by DemiseCloudy

Hey

Im a high level protoss gold player playing at a plat level and i seem to struggle late game with zerg becasue all they seem to do is go mass mutas and take out my probe lines and i find it hard to come back from....

So any advice and ideas would help me out a real lot

Thanks

DemiseCloudy

If you scout and see that they are going REALLY Mutalisk Heavy, then why not react and punish the Zerg for "overmaking" Mutas by going Stargate and getting a couple of Phoenixes out?

If they are not going that Mutalisk heavy, then a couple of cannons at each expansion could deny small Mutalisk numbers. If the mutalisk numbers get bigger, read above.

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by neozxa

If you scout and see that they are going REALLY Mutalisk Heavy, then why not react and punish the Zerg for "overmaking" Mutas by going Stargate and getting a couple of Phoenixes out?

If they are not going that Mutalisk heavy, then a couple of cannons at each expansion could deny small Mutalisk numbers. If the mutalisk numbers get bigger, read above.

4 phoenix is not going to help much against 20- 30 mutas.

What i suggest against a heavy mutalisk composition is to go blink stalkers storm + archons. If you afraid of base trade, spend all ur gas on templars/archons and make like 10-20 cannons at ur 3rd or natural and go kill him.

[DemiseCloudy]

Ok yeh never thought of HT even know there storm smashes mutas. There are a lot of grat ideas that helps with long game against mutas. Thankyou all =D

[Aiya]

Should also check if they're going mass muta properly... with mass spine or mass ling if they don't and just go mass muta you can just make a lot of stalkers and go kill him. If they do then yeah, go cannons to repel the mutas in mineral lines and near pylons powering buildings etc.